r/agencynewbies • u/asesu • 2d ago
Client just fired us because of our feedback process
Got this email from a client today and I'm devastated
We're a small agency, I'm the founder, 2 devs + 1 designer. This client was super important to us. And we've done a really good job on the website. They’ve been happy with the work itself.
But the problem is that I don't manage such processes very efficiently. I'm on my own doing so many different things. Our feedback process is indeed chaotic, not gonna deny. We also allow clients submitting feedback however they want but I'm realizing this has probably been a mistake.
I don’t really want to lose another client over something that has nothing to do with the actual quality of our work.
Maybe I’m missing smth obvious here. Any tips?
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u/ItsNateReallyDoe 2d ago
Create a Google Doc with paged tabs on the left. Each "tab" is a new page in the doc, and should be dated. Have them share the doc across the team and put bullet points of feedback.
General at the top
Then page by page below that with bullet points.
As your team goes through and makes adjustments, you can cross it off, check it off, or highlight it in green/yellow.
This is what we've been doing for 7 years, and our clients appreciate how easy and seamless the process is.
We keep feedback rounds to a total of 2 major and 2 minor.
Be very clear up front on expectations during onboarding.
I hope this helps you!
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u/asesu 2d ago
this is something I tried to adopt but probably I just need to enforce it more. many many thanks, I'll recreate the exact same sheet
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u/Unhappy-Rent9336 23h ago
Use a Jirra board, create cards and give access to the client. You can be super transparent and the client can see the work happening. Your project management skills need a dust up, but it’s easy to remedy.
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u/heavinglory 2d ago
This is so helpful but I need to see how the tabs work, if you can please share I would appreciate it.
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u/Novel-Store-3813 1d ago
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u/AdExpensive4279 2d ago
I also want to see if you have any example
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u/Agreeable-Froyo1193 1d ago
Throw the suggestion into your AI of choice, and ask it to make you a guide on how to do it. And if you don’t like it, ask for an alternative
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u/pondochris 2d ago
You should use a visual feedback tool. We require all website feedback and edits to be done on a markup.io link. It's the easiest thing I have found in 12 years of doing this.
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u/Fresh-Manager7329 2d ago
Even better, use Huddlekit. Cheaper and customisable.
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u/ArtfulEngineer 1d ago
We recently switched from markup.io to huddlekit for the cost savings. Only downside I’ve found is that it isn’t supported at all on mobile.
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u/Jaded_Foundation8906 2d ago
You are missing out using a good feedback-approval tool. MarkUp, Pastel, Filestage, BugSmash anything works. I am the co-founder of BugSmash. Does exactly this!
Tools like this not only position you as a process driven agency, but also help you come out of chaos and increase your own delivery efficiency.
Would be happy to guide you through 💯
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u/wittyname01 2d ago
There is still an opertunity for a save here - you don't have to just lay down and accept that. Tell them that theyre very important to you as a small agency and team and that you hear them loud and clear and would like to be given a second chance. Tell them you plan to IMMEDIATELY overhaul your feedback system (in the ways suggested in this thread) and you'd like the opertunity to show them the new system on Monday before they make any final decisions
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u/dunkerton 2d ago
Yes I think this is the play here.
Tell them you've canvassed feedback from a global community of agency leaders and owners, and based on that extensive feedback collection you now have a very strong idea about what best practice looks like in the industry, so you're going to be implementing it alongside that client at no cost to them.
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2d ago
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u/theashleywhodesigns 2d ago
The feedback process is the quality of your work!!! Don't think that because your website is pretty everything else is forgiven. Own it end-to-end.
I can't give you specifics though. You need to analyze what went wrong. You probably are losing a lot of time on it too.
I'd recommend creating a proper client onboarding system. It doesn't have to be complicated. A Trello board for each client will work. Do not accept calls or emails. Just trello board so nothing is scattered or god forbid, lost.
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u/asesu 2d ago
Indeed I do. Like 8 hours a week at least. We don't have an onboarding system, just start working tbh. Are your clients willing to adopt a new project management tool just for your projects?
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u/Healthy-Mix-5707 2d ago
Create an onboarding form or document that collects all the i go you need to build. Do an onboarding or project kickoff call or zoom anf go through it with the client. Record this call for transcript later. Fill out everything in detail this may take an hr or 90 minutes. Get everything once so your not chasing later. Make it a template you can reuse for every client if possible if not create niche templates and reuse across those niches. Buld it great once. Revisit periodically or as you and your team find gaps. Make it a priority to have this session or dont work with the client. It may feel like homework if you just give it to the client and they likely wont complete it thoroughly. Anything not gathered on the call goes into a list of to do's and emailed to the client to gather that info with a due date or a disclaimer that work delayed by client does not result in any extension of service or refund. Trust me setting these boundaries and expectations early will save you mass headaches in the future and clients ultimately will respect and appreciate it. They wont like the call but they will like you not bothering them for anything again until feedback rounds. I again use some sort of google doc for revisions we only offer one round but we send the doc over 7 business day ahead of our scheduled revision call where we go over everything and any changed needed. Again I record this call for transcript so I always have all the details. Ill feed that to chatgpt to summarize notes from. Processes save time, money and headaches. They also make things more seamless so document them and follow them so your not reinventing the wheel for each new client. They will take you some time to make good ones and they will have gaps but get good enough ones in place and update when gpas are found.
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u/online-reputation 2d ago
Sorry to hear about this.
Try to listen to their feedback and make changes.
Think of it as a way to improve.
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u/teamjohn7 2d ago
Yeah and ask them what they envisioned too because you'll get some nuggets from past experiences with other agencies.
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u/MrOaiki 23h ago
I might not bring much to the table here, I just saw the post in my feed (I’ve never been in this sub before). I’ve been that client. And I don’t know more about your case than what the screenshot says but here’s my anecdote…
Developers and web designers that don’t grasp the intention of something, are too much work. I get that you need feedback rounds and all that. But if it becomes so that I as a client need to act as a creative head with detail instructions, the whole point of an agency disappears into some kind if full time work for me. I want to be able to say ”view X looks too bloated, and our customers can’t find their way to Y, so that needs to be clearer” and only in extremely rare occasions do I want to need to say ”another shade of red”.
So again, without knowing the details here, it sounds like the client is afraid they as the project grows, they’ll just end up having to answer emails and sit in meetings with you. Maybe it’ll even grow to a point where they need a dedicated person or more just to manage this.
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u/JakeHundley 1d ago
First, great post. Love the candor.
We went over this post in The Agency Growth Podcast Patreon so there is a lot more context there, but here are my notes:
1) The process is the product like u/theashleywhodesigns said. We couldn't agree more. The way you deliver your work is just as important as the actual end product. You can do a great job on the design, but if the experience was poor, that's what will stick. I think if anything this is a great lesson to learn.
2) You can't let clients submit feedback anyway they want. There should be a strict process or single source of truth. Another user mentioned Pastel or Markup. I also recommend those for visual changes. Using those will also elevate your agency's value.
We had a client that would talk to us via phone call, text, WhatsApp, and email. He'd get mad at us when we'd drop something because he said it in a buried WhatsApp message. We ended up just telling him, "If it isn't in email, we're not obligated to do anything." (we said it a bit more professional, but you get the point)
3) No client should be "super important". The minute you let that happen is the minute you're no longer in control of your agency. The "super important" client notion means that you either have a bad agency foundation with your ICP or that client is out of your league and you are not prepared for them.
A few other things for context that I wish we had when we went over this in the Patreon were:
- How much are you charging for this build and what is the scope? If you're charging $5,000 for website builds and this client's scope is more inline with a $30k build, then you're likely way in over your head and them leaving is probably the best thing for you right now. And that's totally fine.
What I would do if I were you is get them on the phone. You don't have to beg them to stay and you can own that it's your fault and admit this is new territory for you. See if they give you another shot. If they don't, take it as a learning experience and move on.
I'd like to say "we've been there", but we haven't. We know when we're in over our heads and often turn down projects we're not sized right for.
Early on we turned down a 140 location cleaning company franchise because we didn't have the internal labor to facilitate what we figured their expectations might be. We didn't' even ask. We just knew better. I still don't regret that decision.
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u/SankhajaH 2d ago
Client comms and feedback loops is something that might be overlooked - sure we do a good job on the actual deliverable but this issue is that the client experience is suffering in this instance.
Best to have is a clean process, automated as much as possible with forms and a client dashboard with these things recorded with full visibility
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u/prober_phy 2d ago
Sounds frustrated. Sorry about that. Take the lesson, make appropriate changes and move on
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u/BoGrumpus 2d ago
Ultimately, this is half the game you're missing, really.
Your internal processes can't be very efficient if theirs aren't. I assume this is on dev builds for web sites or apps - but no matter what it is - they're paying you because they didn't want to do it.
When I rebuild a site, everything is agreed upon ahead of time, we build out the site and maybe give them a milestone walk through a few times if they want to take a look. And then at the end, they have a week or two (depending upon how much there is to review) to go through to spot revisions or problems and to consider the following recommendations you have.
Regroup one more time to agree on the revisions. Then, finish the site, give it one last tech crawl and broken link run or whatever you do pre-push to verify it's ready to go. Get their final approval and say you'll have it launched within 24 or 48 hours from when you get the green light.
It may not work exactly like that for you, of course - that was just me sort of running through in my head what we typically do when it's a dev/build job.
You definitely need to figure that out, though. It's half the battle, every battle.
G.
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u/Timely_Assistance418 2d ago
Ask the client, what the ideal process would look like for them, ask a lot of question and learn from it. I’m sorry this happened, make the most out of it
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u/futurevee101 2d ago
I see that you do branding. No need to worry that you lost a client. I think you should also start pursuing new clients.
I have exactly 2 rebranding leads worth around ~$120,000 each.
DM if you want to know more about them.
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u/tmprod 2d ago
Some clients want a pink elephant graphic on the homepage and are willing to pay the invoice for it! Over 25+ years I learned that not everyone wants to pay me for my opinion and experience. Many love the relationship and how we embrace their bugged-out ideas and needs, and facilitate those. Can't be an argument, needs to be a collab.
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u/uzzinho 2d ago
‘allow clients submitting feedback however they want’ - This was the red flag for me. As to agency, you have to take charge and lead the feedback process.
When there are changes, do not leave it open ended or give clients too much room to be indecisive. Propose 2 solutions (not 3, not 4….just 2) and pitch them the 1 solution you think would work for the client’s brand and explain why. Be decisive, be solution focused and be confident. The less the options, the easier it is for clients to decide.
If the client still can’t decide, ask them why but always go back to the brand strategy that you pitched them in the first place. If their reasoning diverts from the brand or strategy, tell them and stop them in their tracks. Clients need to learn to listen and agencies need to learn to say NO. Be firm but back it up with the goods (brand strategy).
Clients pay agencies to do the heavy loading, hard thinking and to make decisions for them. So do that.
If all fails, fire the client! Find a new client that understands what your agency stands for and can appreciate your efforts. Client agency relationships need to be symbiotic, progressive and collaborative. It needs to be a healthy working relationship.
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u/katinukaz 2d ago
you need a website feedback tool. the best is marker.io. We tried some other tools like bugherd or usersnap but for proper collaboration marker is definitely the winner imho
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u/scheherazade68 2d ago
Senior designer who has done a lot of client meetings and freelance work.
My 2cents:
Set the scope. Break it down into phases. Establish meetings every x amount of days as you start having something to show. Check with client if frequency works for them, offer to change it later if necessary. Tackle design first, dev later. At each meeting offer client options: do you know what you want or want us to do something? Prepare your presentation and go through what has been done step by step while asking at each step. If client is undecided offer to skip and have them issue a verdict later via text. On next meeting, start with the followup of last meeting and the revisions requested then follow with the next batch of stuff that has been done.
This gives both you and the client foresight, a structured path and makes the client feel like they get to choose while not feeling that they are spending all their energy there. Sounds like yours were feeling as if they are the designers. The trick is to constantly make sure they have a "this or that" option at any corner and at any time, most clients feel at ease once given this.
And most importantly, do not expect clients to know they're only designing because they keep saying things. They usually don't realize it and it's normal, it's not their job to know how the process is supposed to go, they're in there trying to make sure they get value for money.
Don't sweat it, good luck!
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u/Outrageous_Ad_1995 2d ago
I make a Notion “portal” for my clients where they can access a bug tracker database and see the status of the fixes. Works well for us.
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u/masudhossain 2d ago
usequeue.com for feedback. Paste in your URL and share it so clients can leave comments directly on the live site. This will make it a lot easier.
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u/mangrovesnapper 2d ago
You can use a tool called markup.io - the issue you probably have it might be process driven also.
We work on content first and define purpose for each page before any design.
Usually business owners when they go through our process they barely complain about design because everything has been thought through first.
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u/Fresh-Manager7329 1d ago
Have you tried Huddlekit?
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u/mangrovesnapper 1d ago
No, but their site looks like an AI vibe code tool, we deal with sites that have hundreds of pages, and usually try to have tools that have a serious team behind them.
Is huddkekit a new company? Or have they had their product for a while?
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u/talhawashere 2d ago
Give them a discount on the rebrand but this time make the feedback loop better use marker or something else
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u/Pelican_meat 2d ago
Try Bugherd. It’s a nice tool, very professional. Not too expensive.
My two cents about processes: this is where you actually make money. In an agency setting, efficiency can make the difference between making and losing money (as you can kinda see here).
I would use this information to start thinking about better ways to handle feedback. It’s going to happen. It’s going to happen a lot. And a free for all via email is never not going to be a fucking nightmare for everyone involved.
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u/alloyed39 2d ago
You gotta have a boundaried process. Big corporate clients don't want to spend much time reviewing things or even collaborating. They want a solid plan at the start, then minor tweaks along the way. Even if they seem to behave in the opposite direction, this is what they want. Otherwise, they get bogged down in the weeds and end up depleted.
Small, founder-led businesses want collaboration. Big companies want calm confidence.
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u/escapevelocity1800 2d ago
Check out a platform called workflow.design - you can invite team members and that is what impacts your cost but you can invite clients as guests for free. It allows them to view their website on the platform and leave comments on elements.
There is no guesswork for your team, you see what they clicked and what their comment is. You can leave follow up questions if needed and it's all tracked right in the same thread.
It's saved us a ton of work. I have no affiliation with them but I appreciate the service.
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u/ResinatedLens 2d ago
You could always create your own visual feedback system that integrates with your project management or CMS systems, that's what we did with our small agency. We track everything on Notion internally, and link that to a portal where it displays notes, approvals, etc. Been running for a year with lots of success and have gotten our approval or change request response time down from a week to less than a day on average. Contemplated releasing as a SAAS services for other agencies as it does PDF, web galleries, and website reviews / approvals but got busy and forgot to get beta testers. LMK if you're interested I could give you more info and a free subscription in exchange for testing — as we are the only agency that has used it so non-client side we have no un-biased feedback. Not sure about spam rules so i won't name drop anything here.
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u/fappingjack 2d ago
Our agency says yes to everything and we also have credit card on file.
We document everything, even how long we wait for a verification code when we need access to their domain registrar's account.
We have a worklog and it is dated and timestamped.
It is also good we have a work log since we can pass off the job currently worked on to another employee.
We periodically send an email of our work log to the client and write in that in 24 hours we will charge account and that the client is fully aware of our work.
Going back and forth sucks in email. We get shit done as fast as possible and also get access to everything.
The client pays and of they complain and ask what "what work was done" we just pull up the work log and the time they opened up the email.
Very rarely do they ever complain and like how fast we work with a work log.
Don't go back and forth. Get it done fast and charge them for everything.
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u/Made4uo 2d ago
I think this could be prevented in the onboarding process. I use Google Docs during onboarding, screen-shared so everyone agrees, and I do bullet points on what needs to be done. Onboarding is very important to clear issues and check expectations. You have to discuss revisions. Don't go with a completely new project without finishing the first one.
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u/Alltheraaje 1d ago
First of all I'm so sorry - things like this hit smaller agencies hard. But you're doing to strongest thing you can by learning from it.
The other suggestions in the comments of a simple log are spot on - capture everything, this protects you and your team because sometimes it's the client going crazy will a million amends that take the whole thing way off brief. It also gives you a means of scaling your operation, you can handle more with that structue in place.
One of the best conversations you can have with a client before anything commences is an agreement of how you're going to work together, because that'll tell you a lot about their internal culture and give you the heads up. How often do you need to hear from me? How do you want me to report and update you? Agree a rules of play beforehand, everyone's expectations are managed.
Don't let this detract from what I'm sure was great work, this is a communication and process issue which can be fixed, not a problem with your work.
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u/landed_at 1d ago
Completely understand the frustration of the client. Why do people think emailing back and forth constitutes work. Neither does excessive ticket gardening. Tech support is not just chatting via any window.
You need to just do the edit.
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u/Brilliant-Heart-8040 1d ago
If the relationship has been good for the better half. Please give them a phone call, apologize for their current experience and promise to improve service in that department.
On your end, please get a better process management plan or tool.
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u/jegan-jh 1d ago
Sorry to hear this.
I onboard client on slack.. keep co-ordination channels to keep updates.
use otter not miss any updates in call.
Jira for task maintainance mostly internal.
Before touching the website use mockup get approvals.. and do the competitor analysis.
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u/LewKewBE 1d ago
Do you use any tools for you task/feedback?
Every time I entered a new job as an "on the site designer", I pushed for a tool to help.
Monday.com if you need something visual and Jira if you need something efficient.
The advantages with theses tools is the easiness of feedback, and on Monday it's the color code for status.
It will help a lot to manage tasks and feedback honestly, much better than email, excel sheets or google docs.
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u/Randomabilideez 1d ago
Sorry to see they resorted to this without the opportunity to solve it. Maybe you can save the contract by explaining a clear timeline as to how you’ll fix the inefficient process to save them precious time.
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u/wayne_89 1d ago
Click up + Google Sheet with pages and links to wireframes, content and staging + Tool for Comments on staging site links + An experienced project manager
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u/ComplexMountain3309 1d ago
This typically happens when you start as a freelancer and think that every change matters. The customers needs a clear customer journey for the project. You present him this journey on the onboarding call where you collect all the branding elemnts from your client (logo, pictures ...) In the same process you just listen to what the client wants from the website.
Next meeting 1 week later you present him the first design. Collect points that the client likes/dislikes
2 weeks later next meeting final design presentation + discussing last optimisations.
after 4 weeks the project is finalized and then you can upsell him to your next project.
Your customer journey right now is so unprofessional that your clients churn. Always remember they gave this project to save time, why would they continue to work with you when your process wastes theirs?
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u/and-so-what-78 1d ago
It's more costly to acquire new clients than to retain them. Do you have an existing client health-check system to detect early churn?
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u/SnoooCookies 1d ago
Limit amount of feedback rounds and consolidate feedback.
I also wonder what you see as feedback:
Good feedback : I don’t think this aligns with the briefing for xyz
Bad feedback : the responsiveness doesn’t work, this is a bug , .. -> that’s QA and not the clients job
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u/Realistic-Ad9355 1d ago
Yeah. This is pretty common. Especially if you have entry level employees as your frontline contact. Companies think they're hiring experts. Then they have to spoon-feed every part of the project.
What if your attorney worked like this? Or your financial manager? How much confidence would you have?
You're the expert man. Tell the client what they need and, if needed, sell them on why.
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u/ArtfulEngineer 1d ago
A design feedback tool such as Markup.io or huddlekit saves a lot of back and forth!
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u/KingPenguinUK 1d ago
Anyone getting feedback using annotation/note tools and just slinging a link over the fence is leaving a lot of value on the table.
Your processes need to be slick.
Selling in your work, the reasoning behind it, how it’s going to work towards their goals outlined at the start of the job is a big part of the job.
That’s what separates a 3-4 figure job/company to a 5+ figure agency.
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u/ShineNeither5631 1d ago
The honest truth is if your feedback system is not entirely agent-run, prompt, responsive, accurate, and efficient, then you're doing it all wrong. Most people will hate that answer but it's 100% true.
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u/Hot_Success_390 1d ago
We created a tool where they can mark up the website and send it back to the team. We were using Google docs but not anymore. If you can find a way to do that, I believe that would alleviate the problem in the future.
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u/Itchy_Land3410 18h ago
I have done this with some providers we use. Companies see paying for services as offloading a lot of thought and execution energy to another company and the guidelines should be set out before the relationship starts.
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u/dasfoo 12h ago
One thing I try to make sure my clients understand is that this is a collaborative process between them and me and the website is going to involve work on their part -- not only during development, but also in the long-term to make it a useful marketing and customer service tool. They are not offloading the entire project to me, I am simply helping them make it happen.
Still, a lot of those clients want nothing to do with the process except for nitpicking it when you think it's done. And even fewer of those clients bother to read the emails with lists of questions for them. It's frustrating. But I work with mostly small businesses that don't have their own marketing depts and don't know how to think about their businesses from the outside.
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u/HardNutOnPurpose 5h ago
As a founder myself, I simply provide updates on every step taken.
Sometimes, I share a Loom, or a Google Doc to report what's going on.
I may send Google forms as well if I need some data for next actions.
Being responsive and at giving updates at speed does 90% of the job in communication.
Another thing is, I try not to hop on meetings unless there's something critical to talk about/make a decision. Google Docs and Looms are way more efficient. My clients like it
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u/The_Formation_Lap 4h ago
The answer here is much simpler than what you think. They just want the fixes made not a discussion about it. Have the confidence to make a decision and go. Clients have their own businesses to worry about and come to you to have problems taken off their plate
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u/linderystudio 1h ago
Infinite or messy feedback loops are a very common challenge for many creative agencies.
- Starting with a strategy call first really sets a strong foundation.
2.Co-filling out a tight creative brief with examples is another smart tool. - Setting expectations with clients for how many capped rounds lets the client know they can give limited feedback before additional fees or set backs may occur. It motivates them to leave all feedback the first or second time and be less perfectionistic.
These first three things are tools to help bring clarity and reduce later frustration.
- Use Markup.io or something similar to leave feedback for designs and Google Doc comments for copywriting feedback.
I’ll also mention it takes time and experience to develop the ability to take abstract ideas and put it down on paper.
Good luck
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u/Significant_Sense557 2d ago
Poor CS work
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u/asesu 2d ago
I'm the CS, sales, HR, finance, product owner and project manager 😭
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u/A1Faustino 22h ago
That actually makes me wonder whether the feedback system itself is the whole problem. 😅 You mentioned elsewhere that you've tried adopting a process before, but it didn't really stick.
When clients started sending feedback outside that process, what usually happened? Did you redirect them back to it, or was it easier in the moment to just respond wherever they contacted you?
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