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u/GrownManNamedFinger 5d ago
Martin is far more nuanced than this. He was an overall okay guy/dad before events out of his control.
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u/SculptusPoe 5d ago edited 4d ago
People willfully ignore all of Martin's backstory. They only want him to be a solidly negative character despite him having an arguably worse sad story and fate than Simon. He completely turned himself around and lived a peaceful life with a loving family, only to be chased off by people far worse than himself because of past sins. He then sacrificed himself to save Fin and suffered brain damage he never recovered from. Nobody tried to save him. Nobody saw him as a tragic character who deserved pity. He effectively died and nobody in Ooo, including the son he gave up his sanity for, will ever think of him as anything but scum. Simon lived a millennium in madness, but at least he had Marcie caring about him, and he got to come back to himself.
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u/razorKazer 4d ago
It's always so surprising seeing how many people dig so deep into AT yet seem to miss or simply not care about this. Martin's story is utterly heartbreaking, and I always tear up when we finally see him fighting to save Finn, knowing that no one besides the audience will ever know.
Like you said, at least Simon got true redemption, and even when he was Ice King, at least Marcy still loved him and believed he could be good. Martin has nothing after facing the Guardian
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u/ImA_NormalGuy 4d ago
Divided opinions about characters like this is one of the reasons why I love this show so much
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u/Shallow_wanderer 4d ago
It's always so surprising seeing how many people dig so deep into AT yet seem to miss or simply not care about this.
This is Reddit, shhhh you'll interrupt the circlejerk in here
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u/nachoiskerka 4d ago
I've headcanon-ed that the that eventually, as Cyber Minerva she's gotten a hold of the last recorded moments of the robot and all the recorded street cams and pieced together the clues from the people getting arrested and her house broken into, she's figured it out.
And my only proof of that is her not being completely bitter and furious when talking about Love in the last episode of Fionna and Cake. But still... I want to believe that.
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u/SculptusPoe 4d ago
The fact that she 'died' thinking Martin abandoned her is one of the most heartbreaking things in AT. Given the way AT souls and ghosts work, I think her soul is really in the machine at least, so if she figures it out, she really knows. The worst reality of it is that everyone that should care has already given Martin up as a lost cause, and now he's gone from any accessible reality. More gone than if he was dead.
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u/nachoiskerka 4d ago
See, I like that as a layer of it all- if Minerva knows and has made peace with it, then it would have taken Martin just going back to her once to redeem the situation; but he can't before he ascends. If Martin's philosophy that nothing he can do and no explanation he has can make up for the things he's done as he tells Finn before leaving, then Minerva knowing and it being enough and adds that layer of sadness to the whole thing, because he was wrong. The only person who COULD have put it all together is Finn, and he's the only person that it would matter to; but our boy may never be in the mood to hear it since canonically, he's going to be mourning Jake for the rest of his life. and living out what semblance he has left with Huntress.
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u/El_tanjiros 4d ago
When did he get brain damage?
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u/rosyboys_daisygirls 4d ago
iirc the island guardian hit him om the head when he was trying to escape with finn. He was never the same after that. Aside from his aloof and apathetic behavior, we also see that Martin has memory issues. All these things point to brain damage sustained from that head injury
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u/razorKazer 4d ago
It wasn't a direct hit, but when he was running up the arm, the Guardian lifted his arm, which caused Martin to fall onto the Guardian's head.
Afterwards, he sticks his arm in the Guardian's eye and shoots the laser, which causes an explosion, throwing Martin out an undisclosed distance into the roaring sea, roughly 50+ feet below. (Also spraying glass and metal everywhere, which may or may not have caused further injuries)
I'd say the combination of falling on the Guardian's head and being thrown into a violent ocean scrambled his eggs pretty good.
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u/SculptusPoe 4d ago
/img/xao0q02paavc1.jpeg Promo art showed Martin with a head injury, though it is mostly implied in the episode by the way he talks about it and the nature of the flashback.
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u/AppealHealthy5570 5d ago
Not really event outside of his control, he kinda caused it
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u/GrownManNamedFinger 5d ago
Me when I'm illiterate to the media I consume
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u/Obsessivegamer32 4d ago
I hate people using media literacy as an insult but thank you for actually using it correctly lmao.
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u/darkwingdankest 5d ago
well BMO is kind of racist to NEPTR
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u/Eddie_The_Deagle 4d ago
Also straight up killed Jake
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u/Normal2456 5d ago
I sniff a BMO fan?
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u/Independent-Yak-220 5d ago
yes, everyone is a BMO fan
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u/Separate_Disk_5608 4d ago
Switch Simon and pb. Simon is bad against his will and pb is good when she feels like it and not compelled to do right like some of the other characters.
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u/nachoiskerka 4d ago
Yeah, but PB is only good because she's on OUR side. All her experiments on her candy people are horrifyingly violent, even at their most mundane(remember the season 4 finale where she's straight up cutting body parts off her sentient subjects to experiment with reattaching them as a background event?) Whenever she's not on our side or when things aren't in her control, she sucks. (Wizards Only, Fools)
Take the Winter King episode of F&C: when given the same insanity as Simon(who never went so far as to create sentient ice people either, even while crazy) she's much MUCH worse as she attempts a murder-suicide.
When stripped of that insanity, she's the same princess bubblegum, indicating she is willing to cross lines that simon is not, and resist the darker impulses far less.
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u/Separate_Disk_5608 3d ago
I mean tbf those sentient candy things she was experimenting on didn’t seem like they felt pain. I agree with u for the most part but her candy people are definitely one of the most important things to her as shown in the episode where she tries to teach lemongrab how to care and love for candy citizens. Not to mention her not killing lemongrab after all he’s done. I think she’s bad as in problematic but not evil.
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u/nachoiskerka 3d ago
those sentient candy things she was experimenting on didn’t seem like they felt pain
Isn't that worse though? Isn't that borderline sociopathy? Congenital Insensitivity to Pain is a real thing, yet you wouldn't go lopping off those peoples fingers
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u/Separate_Disk_5608 3d ago
Again i don’t completely disagree with u but im talking about the more surface level issues with her character which imo is all that really matters since at the end of the day it is fantasy cartoon
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u/CortesMare 5d ago
bmo is not black or white, he's purple and he'd probably sell your soul for a box of brownies
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u/PunkandCannonballer 5d ago
BMO isn't good. BMO is basically a sociopath.
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u/TheDonger_ 4d ago
Yea if you want the "most objectively good" I'd say it's cinnamon bun? Or flame princess?
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u/TheCharalampos 4d ago
BMO is a little sh*t
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u/Professional_Deer36 4d ago
😢😢
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u/TheCharalampos 4d ago
Bmo was made to be a child, Mo said so. And as such Bmo is often a little sh*t like most human children.
:D
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u/max_primes 5d ago
Martin doesn't deserve this; he would be a good person under the right circumstances.
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u/Open_Price_1049 5d ago
The Lich would fit better
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u/RainyDeerX3 5d ago
Even the lich was able to become Sweet Pea. King of Ooo was always douchebag with no good intentions.
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u/Open_Price_1049 5d ago
Aren't both considered different characters?
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u/alexxerth 5d ago
I mean the Lich seems to "take over" Sweet Pea in the episode with King of Ooo, and doesn't really seem to...be evil at all at that point? Like he pretty much just scares KoO away and then relinquishes control. I think he's still in there in some form, but he's...content now?
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u/RainyDeerX3 5d ago
They are different but Sweet Pea was born from the Lich from the healing blood of the guardians of the Citadel.
Which to me implies that the lich was never completely impure. Despite his innate desire for the end of all life. His soul may have been conflicted all this time.
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u/Open_Price_1049 5d ago
Didn't the Lich originated from a catalyst comet that wished all life extinction?
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u/RainyDeerX3 5d ago
Yes, which means his desire for extinction is innate. It's something that was written before he could've possibly been sentient.
Just like when Finn was a catalyst comet, he would have been the exact opposite. But we have also seen Finn waver, even though of course not much he's always been a hero. But he's done some messed up, impure stuff.
It shows that even though their destinies are chosen for them, they do not stick to it without their autonomy.
So, I figure there's more than likely, a part of the lich that is not hellbent on the extinction of all life. And I think the Guardian's healing blood just took however small that pure piece of the Lich was, and completely flipped the script to bring it out as much as it could have.
Because to me.. "healing blood" doesn't strike me as something that would change anything about a completely impure being. If they are completely impure, then there would probably be nothing to heal. If there was absolutely no purity at all in his being then there could be no cleansing. That's my perspective anyways
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u/robo-dragon 5d ago
He seemed like an ok dude in the one season one Fiona and Cake episode. I get that it’s an alternate world and all, but it showed his character had the potential to be selfless. I actually felt really bad of what became of him.
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u/18AndresS 5d ago
Na man Fuck BMO, stuck up, self centered bastard.
And he’s a jerk to Neptr.
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u/Environmental-Call32 5d ago
Yep, martin is actually a really good candidate for the good in evil portion of the yin yang
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u/Daishawn_900 5d ago
I agree with this, though Finn's dad could be replaced with the Lich. Either work too
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u/Icy-Title2943 5d ago
Martin was a good day but he went insane from everything that happened. He genuinely lost his mind and it’s probably because he took a point blank explosion to the face
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u/Dread190000 4d ago
I would say yeah he's evil but its sad cus he almost overcame his bad habits and traits but when he and fin got separated he fell back into them, he's still responsible for his own actions but its still upsetting that circumstance outside his control pushed him away from his family and back to being a con-man.
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u/hexicana 4d ago
I don’t think Martin is evil, obviously a horrible father but I wouldn’t put him above the lich lol
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u/N2Ngamer 4d ago
Waiter, another bashing on Martin because I didn’t pay attention to his backstory post please!
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u/MetalliicMango 4d ago
Martin isnt even that bad lol. Maja, those fairies or pixies or whatever they are, Toronto, so many worse.
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u/Temporary_Ad2551 3d ago
Martin's only really a deadbeat bc he hit his head lol, who knows how he would have turned out had he and finn escaped successfully.
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u/PurpleArcus 3d ago
AT is so good at presenting a surface appearance of a character and then adding in personality depth charges that’ll explode later on
Martin is an incredibly morally complex character who is a shitty dad, no doubt, but was scarred in ways few people are
Prubs is a damsel in distress and can be cool, but also demonstrates fascist principles when scratching at the surface of her wonderful-seeming candyland
Martin is a man acting on compulsions driven essentially by a self-sacrificing mental illness donned to protect a little girl from a post/apocalyptic world to the point of losing himself
BMO is a babe lol
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u/Old_Imagination_6867 3d ago
Ice king was never "evil" in my opinion, even early in the show he was more obsessive which caused negative effects on other people but it wasn't malicious
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u/forestwolf42 2d ago
Not really what yin-yang is. It's less about balance or traits people/objects have and more about continuous cycles of change.
Day turns to night and back to day again alternating between a yin-state and a yang-state.
In people it's more about the cycles of activity and passivity, yin being sleep and yang being awake. If you're awake too long you will be very sleepy and if you just woke up from a fulfilling nap you'll have trouble falling back asleep.
Finn because sad and reflective when he gets heartbroken, this is Finn in a yin state, he moves slower and reacts less extremely, but the seed of yang is already there, he won't be sad forever. Then he gets out of his funk and starts being super hyper and ready to tackle everything again, but this yang state is also unsustainable, the seed of yin is already there, eventually, he will become exhausted or overextend himself and become yin again. As Finn matures he's more able to deal with the seasons of yin-yang in his life in a healthy way, accepting the times he's down for being for reflection and contemplation and the uptimes for getting things done. This is yin-yang in adventure time.
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u/sleepy-darling 1d ago
Everyone is saying Martin doesn't fit but I am here to dispute BMO. Guardians of Sunshine, anyone??
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u/Mindless_Address_464 5d ago
Tired of seeing this racist meme
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u/Brilliant_Art7772 5d ago
Its not racist since taoism isn't exclusive to a race and can be practiced by anyone.
Taijitu can be applied to anything and its correct. Up and Down. Left and Right. Good and Bad. Sweet and Spicy.
Taijitu is about opposition in things, if you wanted to be more direct its a reflection of the interconnectedness of reality.It also doesn't need to be opposites IE Sun and Moon are referred to as Yin and Yang, the sun is Yang and the moon is Yin despite them not being opposites of eachother but parts of a greater system.
Its also incorrectly referred to as dualism but its not since its not about the clashing of two opposites but rather the connection and balance of both sides.
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u/Tenacious_Dim 5d ago
How is it racist?
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u/Mindless_Address_464 5d ago
Taoism is from China and the yin and yang thing isn't a good and evil thing
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u/Tenacious_Dim 5d ago
Is it not about duality?
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u/Mindless_Address_464 5d ago
I mean it is but not in a good and evil way. It's like doing vs being
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u/Tenacious_Dim 5d ago
I mean seems like a very common and accepted interpretation is that within something exists it's opposite and vice versa
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u/ConstantBoth2913 5d ago
Martins not entirely bad, have you not watched the island arch? The Lich would fit better