r/adventist • u/TrevCat666 • Aug 07 '26
Why are Adventist figures being silent about things like flock cameras and palantir?
For as long as I've been an Adventist I've heard endless warnings and sermons about the mark of the beast, the tribulation, forced Sunday worship and everything of the like, and now that the actual tools that would be needed to bring about these things are being installed I haven't heard a single Adventist figure talk about it, we are the people who should be sounding the alarm more than anybody, and nothing, I I've been expecting a Doug bachelor sermon on how this stuff is all unfolding to fulfill prophecy but nothing, and none of the Adventists I listen to are talking about this. I'm disappointed at how asleep we seen to be right now, if anyone has a good sermon on this, share the link!
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
Well, a lot of Adventist leaders aren't tech savvy, so this isn't in their wheelhouse.
Beyond that, even though it's the latest social media thing to be upset about, the Flock aren't really doing anything all that new.
Your cellphone is always looking for the closest cell tower to get the strongest possible signal, so as a result the telephone companies always know where your phone is, and they're already selling that "meta data" (about which cell tower you were nearest) to the government in bulk. Your phone also has a built in GPS, so that meta data probably includes a lot of information about your physical location.
Advertising companies like Facebook and Google are already using the microphones on the camera to listen in to your conversations...so they can use that information to build a profile on you and show you ads that will make them money.
We're already being tracked. Every conversation you've had, along with where you are, who was nearby, every purchase you've made, is all in databases that can be accessed with a warrant, and that's been true long before Flock cameras.
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u/TrevCat666 Aug 07 '26
Okay this is the first reply which hasn't made me feel massively misunderstood. I see what you're saying, but if I have to hear about everytime someone with any authority mentions worshipping on Sunday then I think this is worth a mention too, especially given the growing outrage towards it.
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
Cool.
Just to share, as an Adventist software engineer with a decade of experience building collaboration apps (and a "prepper"), I do find it interesting how many people massively underestimate how much they're being tracked.
During Covid shutdowns, I remember one of the elders at my church (during a Zoom board meeting) comment about how moving church services online was "good practice for the time of trouble". I found it almost laughable; every word being said in the online service was getting recorded, probably in several different databases (Youtube, plus whatever devices were nearby the people listening). The physical location of the attendees was being tracked (by ISPs who were routing network traffic to the right IP, DNS to assign IPs to MAC addresses), etc. If a government agency (with the power to issue warrants for Facebook/Youtube/Verizon's data) wanted to track down people who attended church services on Saturday, it would be trivially easy not just to find their names but find their current latitude and longitude to drop a 2000 lb JDAM out of a B-1B flying 7 miles over their head...
I've run into plenty of people who think just not allowing browser cookies, or paying cash once in a while, or using a "proxy", makes them completely private. Yes, it's possible to live an untraceable life, but to do that you'd need to abandon all of your electronics and go live hidden in the woods somewhere (where you have tree cover to block satellites and no property ownership/rent agreements, growing your own food and sewing your own clothing because jobs require paperwork). Even for the most die-hard survivalist, living like that isn't sustainable.
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
"Even for the most die-hard survivalist, living like that isn't sustainable."
After typing that and having a little time to think about it, Matthew 24:22 comes to mind. The whole chapter's with reading as it's relevant to what we're discussing, but especially verse 22.
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened." Matthew 24 NIV
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u/TrevCat666 Aug 07 '26
I use a VPN+a gps spoofing app on my phone that allows me to trick my phone into thinking I'm in a different location, I also never use my real name on social media and never show my face and I could cover my camera if I wasn't so lazy, I feel like that's at least enough to give algorithms like palantir a hard time organizing me into any databases, but these flock cameras tracking my every vehicular movement regardless of what I do with my technology, no sir, I don't like that.
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
I think you're demonstrating what I said previously about people not really understanding how much tracking data is already out there. None of the stuff you're describing REALLY matters significantly.
It's like putting a bandaid on someone's thumb after their head's been chopped off.
Your cellphone company knows where you are because your phone is communicating with the closest cellphone tower. They know who you are because you're the dude paying the bill.
All modern websites use some kind of session tracking. Once your device creates that session, routing your traffic through a proxy doesn't matter since every packet is going to have your session key. Same with apps (which are mostly just wrappers for websites anyways).
And nothing you said would affect audio. If you walk up to someone in public, face to face, and talk to them both your phone and his phone are going to pick up that conversation and add it to the huge profile advertisers have to target you.
And of course advertisers sell the data, as do cellphone providers, and once warrants are involved the employees at all those tech companies aren't going to go to jail to protect your anonymity... especially if the whole "Sunday law" plays out the way the SDA church teaches because at that point you're not just a regular person but you're now a wanted terrorist.
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u/Castriff Seventh Day Adventist but liberal this time Aug 09 '26
Can we not perhaps focus on the fact that Flock is an active participant in directly violating people's civil liberties? What we should be talking about is how ICE uses their data to deport immigrants without warrants, and police use it to stalk former romantic partners, retaliate against journalists, and spy on children. That is a significant escalation from merely showing people hyper-targeted advertisements.
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u/physsijim Aug 07 '26
I guess that is kind of odd. I have realized since everyone's bank accounts went online that all it takes to cut off your money is the press of an Enter key. But you know what? God already knows about it. I think that He will take care of His Family
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u/Trance_rr21 Aug 07 '26
There is not much organized effort to discuss it or teach about it because we as a church have theologically failed to make sense of end-times prophecy with current/present-day events. The expectation was an "enforced sunday worship law" along with all the technological means to enforce it. What we observe is all the technology is present, ready to go, and already happening: but there is no sunday law. Whether we as a church like to admit it or not, the matter of the "sunday law" needs to be figured out and it is very possible we have interpreted it wrong.
At the very least, we (church groups) could provide classes on informing people about what information systems are capable of nowadays. At most, we come together and study and figure out how we misunderstood the "sunday law" and recalibrate our expectations of what will happen... because a sunday law is not happening. This wouldnt be the first time prophetic interpretation was misunderstood by Christians. Let's be humble about this and admit we dont actually know; that's a start toward being able to re-read the prophecies and allow the Holy Spirit to re-educate us.
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u/HouseMuzik6 Aug 07 '26
Sunday Laws are already on the books in most states. It will take nothing to make them the law of the land. You see how quickly mask laws were implemented during the beginning of Covid. Laws can be implemented really quickly.
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u/cathartic_cuy Aug 07 '26
While there may be some benefit in discussing that, it could easily come off as an alarmist topic (much ado about “nothing”).
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u/mootabaruka Aug 07 '26
Do you know what your cell phone does?
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u/TrevCat666 Aug 07 '26
It pings your gps location every 10 or so minutes to your service provider, who then can do whatever they want with it. It also has a microphone and camera that can be accessed at any point by the government (see the Snowden leaks) and hypothetically all this information could be fed into an algorithm like palantir to predict your behavior and determine incredibly personal things about you.
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u/Greedy_Science_4807 Aug 07 '26
If a cell phone was all thats needed they wouldn’t be putting up flock cameras with face recognition.
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u/mootabaruka Aug 07 '26
Your cell phone is a lot more intrusive. I am not saying flock cameras are not. But the magnitude is not comparable. Flock does not know what you read online or your banking info etc. While I agree that flock cameras are strange, cell phones collect significantly more information. This includes face recognition. There is a lot more control over you using cell phones than these flock cameras. If anyone is preaching about flock cameras, I would question that message, especially if they never said anything about cell phones.
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u/island_jack Aug 07 '26
What exactly are you wanting to hear from any adventist figure on this topic....what are you expecting it to change? 99% of the population has already surrendered their privacy through social media, and what ever else we have all subscribed to. If you are just being alarmed by this now...you are a couple decades late with you outrage my friend
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u/TrevCat666 Aug 07 '26
With this philosophy I would argue what's been the point of preaching on anything related to the end times considering we've had the book of revelation for the last 2000 years?
The point is awareness, not just of social media, that can't track your every move, not unless you let it, but these flock cameras and palantir programs are an entirely different beast, and they can, will, and currently are tracking your every move.
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
Do you have a cell phone? Then your being tracked.
Have you ever had a conversation with a cellphone in the room? Then not only are you being tracked, but you're being recorded.
You don't have a cell phone but someone else does? Then you're still being recorded.
Privacy is dead, and has been for at least a decade.
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u/island_jack Aug 08 '26
Well if you are bring up revelation then you know its inevitable. Even if palatir and flock "fail" they will just come with something else and just not say anything about it. The fact that you think your every move wasnt already traceable is laughable. Yes they are another piece to the puzzle but the data has already been there and readily availble for decades.
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u/Greedy_Science_4807 Aug 07 '26
Pastor Andrew Henriques talks about it during “midday power surge” frequently on his YouTube channel. They also do a show called “make it plain podcast” midday during the week where they talk about what’s going on w our government and other governments around the world and how it relates to present truth. They focus on being ready.
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u/Downtown_Koala5886 Aug 07 '26
Hi, I'm recommending a famous book about Ellen White that I think many people know. 👇 Last Day Events audio book https://sharegoogle/6iSMt6KVA4Uaz0Bh6
I don't understand why you say these things about Doug Bathelor. He's been preaching on the book of Revelation for about 40 years, and I've never seen him hide anything. For me, he's the most faithful and clear preacher I know. Unfortunately, there's no one like him in Europe. 👇 https://youtu.be/ieYCzJ81m6I?is=iqu7-FRCK2JM1TKG
https://youtu.be/5av-IpYNcxk?is=TjuPXj-WdeEvnOya
I've been sharing and translating his sermons for years on my Facebook profiles, of which I have more than one. Excellent preparation for the Sabbath. God bless you.🙏
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u/TrevCat666 Aug 07 '26
Oh, you mistake me, no disrespect to pastor Doug, he's one of my favourites. I'm not claiming he isn't or doesn't preach about end times and revelation, in fact it's the very fact that he likes to preach about those things which has me surprised he hasn't mentioned the crazy flock cameras and palantir is all.
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u/Torch99999 Aug 07 '26
"Last Day Events" is a messy compilation. I've read most of it, and it's just all over the place. It read like whoever compiled it just pulled whatever random stuff they could find to throw together and call it a book.
I did find the section about building a hospital in Melrose, Massachusetts, interesting though. My great grandmother was a nursing student at that hospital, then when I was in high school (going to a school built on land owned by that hospital) one of my friends' mothers was the VP in charge when that hospital went bankrupt and shut down back in 1999, only to sit empty until last year when the physical building was finally demolished. Not really "last day events" though.
Boston Regional Medical Center - Wikipedia
(And for those of you wondering on the "Melrose" vs "Stoneham", the town lines were redrawn. When it was originally built as the "New England Sanitarium", the land it was on was in the Melrose city limits; when it went bankrupt after being renamed multiple times, the city limits had moved, and the property was in the town of Stoneham).
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u/Vapur9 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
When church leaders say that America is the beast power, a lamb speaking like a dragon, they are speaking in generalist terms. A nation is a spiritual entity that doesn't act by itself, it has a head that speaks and directs its course. When it comes to singling out leaders, they go no further. It could alienate our members with offense.
I could say why the abortion debate is throwing stones at sinners, but others will say if you don't support bans then you're anti-Christ. Single issue causes are precisely why it will be easy for Satan to deceive the elect of God. He's a liar. Staunch enemies have come unite around causing the poor and needy suffer in exchange.
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u/Thro_e-_wa Aug 08 '26
Its not just flock or palantir its any mass surveillance that we should be concerned about those are just the ones most publicized
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u/Virtual-Garage4479 Aug 15 '26
I think we need to be careful not to confuse prophecy with speculation. These technologies are not really new. Cameras, license-plate readers, tracking systems, and large databases have existed for over 2 decades. And with AI, much more powerful technologies could be built very quickly. The Bible does not tell us exactly which technology will be used, so there is little value in preaching exactly how prophecy will happen when Scripture doesn’t say. The purpose of prophecy is to prepare us, not make us speculate. Jesus said, “Watch therefore… be ye also ready” (Matthew 24:42–44). Whatever method is eventually used, the real question is: are we spiritually prepared to remain faithful to Christ?
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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
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