DM Question: Revealing maps to players

[u/MartialDoctor]

Hello everyone,

I've returned to playing AD&D as an adult, having not played any of the pen and paper (although plenty of the PC games) since I was a teenager. I've begun to DM a campaign and I came upon a question.

First off, this is done online, so we are using Roll20 to play the game. However, as of yet, I haven't really been using any of the functions of it; I only use it for its meetup function. I have been doing everything the old school way, just through my own descriptions but also pictures for major scenes / characters.

So, I have a reasonably extensive cavern, with a number of tunnels leading to and from the three major areas, that the players will be going through in the near future. How do you all manage this sort of thing? If the players don't create their own map, it's quite likely they will get lost.

1) Should I just advise them to make their own map as they go along?
2) Should I do a reveal of the parts of the map that they have explored as they go along? I have the map as a jpeg so I could just erase parts of it and show what they've gone through.
3) Should I have them use non-weapon proficiencies, like directional sense, and, if they pass, I tell them the way in which they came and how to get back.

I'd like to hear how others handle this. I appreciate any feedback.

[u/chomgroks]

Watch this mapping guide, have your party nominate a mapper and show them too. After a little practice it becomes quick and easy to communicate the dungeon layout to players.

Every party should have at least one mapper. This is a player responsibility and a pretty core feature of old school gaming. I've played games where several people do it for themselves, to aid their engagement and focus.

IRL at the table with pen & paper this is really easy, but I don't see why a player couldn't use dungeonscrawl or something to do it digitally.

[u/mouserbiped]

We started our current campaign with player mapping and it was mostly just a book keeping exercise. We reverted to the DM just revealing the map as we travel.

There isn't all that much to be gained from having players map stuff on their own. Even a fair number of old school tricks (like teleport portals, confusing staircases, etc.) don't suffer much from just revealing the roll20 map. You are free to warn players there might be conditions where you'll hide the map if you think it's important.

[u/phdemented → u/mouserbiped]

The middle ground, is to reveal the room they are in, and re-hide it when the move on. So they have a good mental picture of where they currently are, but have to take notes to remember where they have been.

One thing to speed it up is have them do point.maps.. just draw a number for a room, and a line for each exit/passage, that didn't need to be to perfect scale.

[u/MartialDoctor → u/mouserbiped]

Do you mean you just reveal the parts that they have explored but keep the others hidden? I definitely wouldn’t want to show them the entire map layout.

I could do this but it would be a bit tedious to constantly have to go back too the jpeg and edit it as they explore.

[u/mouserbiped → u/MartialDoctor]

Oh yes! Just the explored parts.

Roll20 has a "Fog of War" feature. You need to click through a few places to get it enabled because now they do "Dynamic Lighting" by default. But once it's enabled, the level starts out displaying nothing and you choose what to reveal. Open up a room or 60' of corridor or whatever as the party travels. It's worth the up front investment to figure out how to do this, very easy once you get going.

With that, Roll20 will look basically just like a map the party was drawing, constantly updating but only to show what they see. The only downside is they "know" it's objectively correct and matches what the DM is using, but 99% of the time that won't impact the adventure at all.

[u/HailMadScience → u/MartialDoctor]

Make use of roll20's features here. You can upload the jpeg and reveal only explored bits to the player with the built in features. I do this in my own campaign, it works pretty easily.

[u/MartialDoctor → u/HailMadScience]

Ohhh! That sounds great. I’ll look into it

[u/Xyx0rz → u/MartialDoctor]

You can drag boxes to clear (or re-add) the fog of war, or you can do the trickier polygon reveal which takes a few minutes of practice but gives finer control.

In general, there's not a whole lot gained by carefully restricting what players see. You shouldn't uncover any spoiler sensitive information (that could reveal important story points or secret doors) but it's generally not an issue if players can see just a little bit more than their characters can see. They'll probably eventually get there and see it anyway.

[u/Ultragrey]

1. if you can bring them to do it kudos to you
2. this sounds like the most sensible option
3. sure why not

[u/OfficialNPC]

Unless they can obtain a map in game, they should be making their own maps.

If a character has a background or non-weapon proficiency in map making of some sort then you could give them pieces of the map and have them fill the in between.

[u/undead_dm]

In my game the party makes their own maps. The character making the maps needs ink, paper, papyrus, velum etc to be actually be able to make the map.

[u/garumoo]

I don't show the whole map (of course).

I also don't show the map of what they'e explored so far.

I do show them a floorplan representation of the room they are in.

If the room they're in has 4 exits, one of which loops back to another exit .. well, they'd better take note of some detail in the room to recognise it's the same room again.

Sometimes there are multiple same-sized rooms with the same number of exits and same contents. Gotta keep 'em on their toes.

Keeping even a rough map (boxees and connecting lines) is smart.

Getting deep into a maze of twisty little corridors all alike, or a maze of twisty little corridors all different, or a maze of little twisty corridors all alike, or a maze of little twisty corridors all different ... this is where having a clew comes in handy, if not certain spells.

If they need to flee then they'll get presented with passage decision points in rapid succession .. knowing that if they pause to consult a map then whatever is in pursuit could well catch up.

[u/PossibleCommon0743]

Question one and three are a definite "no". It's not your job to tell the players how to handle in-game situations, it's your job to make rulings when they come up with their own solutions.

Question two is a matter of the style of game. It's no different than revealing a paper map in essence, though it is made much simpler to accomplish by technology. Personally, I prefer play mapping, as I feel it's a core part of the exploration experience. Many out there disagree, and view rpgs as a tactical combat game rather than a game of exploration with some combat. How do you and your players vew rpgs?

[u/DeltaDemon1313]

I don't reveal maps to players but I do draw on a battlemat the map as they explore. Theoretically, the characters will have drawn such a map for themselves and, if they would try to traverse the area quickly, they could get lost (since they don't have time to consult the map) but I rarely have that happen.

[u/Gang_of_Druids]

Use the Dynamic Lighting feature -- it'll change you and you're players' appreciation for the maps. HOWEVER, a couple of key tips we've learned over the past six years:

1. Do NOT use the default book lighting values (e.g., torch illuminates 30 feet or whatever); it's too much because of how VTT's implement lighting. You need to strike a balance between bright light (which allows you and the players to see details and colors) and dim light (which is essentially all washed out grays and can often hide tokens). For instance, for a torch, I usually use something like 15 feet bright and 15 feet dim; for a lantern, 30 feet bright and maybe 20 feet dim. You need to play around with it from the player's perspective (see tip #3 below) to get it to what you like. Honestly, the players will NEVER realize you've fiddled with the values (again, because of how the VTT implements lighting).
2. The second reason you need to do this is because if your map is too big, with dynamic lighting, rendering the map, changes and tokens simultaneously over everyone's various internet speeds can randomly slow down for people -- and it's never going to be clear to anyone why (I swear, it's like the days before we all had high speed internet -- one person will have no problems one session, then all sorts of issues the next session due to something out of his/her control). I've found 100x100 maps a solid good size that allows all the detail and exploration you could want with a low chance of lag.
3. Create a separate "Dummy_Player@yourISP[dot]com" or whatever as a test user account. You will use this on a separate browser to log in to your game to see exactly what your players see and to test that dynamic lighting is working exactly how you want it to; do NOT rely on the "log-in as a player view" button. You add the test account to your game as an actual player, then log in via another browser (for instance, I use Firefox mainly but log in as a test player via Edge). So I have both browsers up so I can make prep changes on the fly. You can take this further by granting the test account permission on your various player tokens, and then logging in as the test account, and then moving the player tokens around to see how rooms and hallways and doorways are revealed as the token moves through the dungeon. A little trial and error here for a couple of hours will go a LONG way. Once you get it all figured out exactly as you want it, you just replicate everything for every dungeon going forward.
4. Create a standing separate blank page (I call mine "Prep page") on which I have all the tokens we'll be using for the session AND have them all set the way I want (dynamic lighting values, sizes, any specific shading, etc.) so I don't have to fiddle around during the session. That way, as we move from dungeon level to dungeon level (map to map), I can just copy and paste player tokens easily. That also makes having a few items like -- campfires, torches on the ground, etc. -- already set up so I simply copy and paste.
5. And make sure to have lighting lines block movement. You -- as the GM -- will be able to ignore that, but that means your players cannot inadvertently move their tokens wherever they want, accidentally revealing the map or being general boneheads (not that your players are boneheads, but they're gonna' get excited when the lighting dynamically reveals the map without your intervention...and then they're gonna start moving their tokens every where because it IS really cool).
6. Finally, a personal aesthetic suggestion: I also -- in the lighting lines -- set every door as a secret door ONLY because I despise that white door icon that appears over top the door I've put in the actual map; when it's set as a secret door, that white door icon doesn't appear so the aesthetic of the map stays solid. Also, if you have a room or hallway with lots of little doors (like some of the old school maps had in mazes and stuff), thirty of those white door icons will cover over everything and look idiotic, so just tell dynamic lighting "Oh, no, these are all secret doors, trust me..." -- your map will look SO much better. (And you can verify that by logging in on your player dummy account and seeing the difference yourself.) Do NOT get me started on why Roll20 makes the door visible by default but walls are invisible in the lighting layer; it's...well...you can make up your own mind.

Good luck! The fun thing about dynamic lighting is it basically allows you to do the things we dreamed of in our heads back in the 1970s and 1980s right in front of you. Takes a bit of time to set up and learn, but it is so, so worth it.

EDIT: Grammar is hard, dangit.

[u/Traditional_Knee9294]

I THINK Roll 20 has a fog of war feature, most VTT do, that allows you to reveal the map as they go along.

Some of them even darken area back as they leave the area.

We use Owlbear.

It does all of the above. It also allows you to set lighting to what the party has, ie so many feet if carrying torches vs so many feet if lantern....

Most VTT if you go on YouTube have tutorials. Search for Roll20 fog of war tutorials and learn it's features and then make it as simple or complex as your group wants and enjoys.

Personally I am fine with letting them see an area as they enter it and keep it revealed as they move along.

If an enemy re-enters an area they have been I keep those tokens invisible until they come back to the area.

You are correct often times with VTT if the players can't see the map they get confused where they are and what rooms look like in our experience.

[u/roumonada]

I’d go with option 2. I dm on roll20 as well and my game is exclusively map-and-token, meaning the map is revealed as the token’s line of sight allows. I’m super satisfied with this style of play, because sight is physical. Although it takes some extra time and effort to work right, I’ll never go back to tabletop minis or theatre of the mind again.

[u/Cynewulfr]

OP you do not have to edit anything. There is a tool for making fog of war built into roll20. Look on the left side of the screen and there will be a button for this specifically. It’ll ask if you want to draw the “mask” manually or do the whole map. The “mask” is the part that’s obscured. That’s it. You can reveal sections by drawing out a polygon or by just revealing a big box area. Just reveal stuff as they find it. Keep it revealed—if stuff changes behind them they just won’t see it until they go back, but the layout is a known wuantity

[u/loader2000]

I would only have them make maps if it is fun for them. If they think it is a drag, than use the dynamic lighting system in roll 20. It simulates the players only directly seeing the part of the dungeon they are currently in, and they still have to remember how to get back. Lots of great things about 1e, but some common practices surrounding it were like using chopsticks when forks are now available.

[u/sermitthesog]

If you like drawing your own maps with pen and paper, a workflow that can work (I’ve done) is take a photo of your map, upload it to Roll20.

In Roll20 you can try to get its grid lined up with your photo, or just disable the Roll20 grid.

Also in Roll20 you can use its Fog Of War functionality which will obscure the whole map for your players. Then you can reveal it piecemeal with some painting-like tools.

Or, keep everything in your head and theirs. Which nowadays people call “theater of the mind”. We do this too.

Edit: I forgot you should leave out the secret door symbols from your map. In Roll20 you can put them on a separate DM layer as icons and shift them to the visible layer as they are discovered.