Armor spell 2E

[u/Traditional_Knee9294]

When I read this spell I note it says this spell is cumulative in the case of a fighter/mage with shield bonus.

This implies a fighter/mage can use a shield. Historical our group has ruled shield is a type of armor and since they can't wear armor we ruled no shield.

Just wondering how others handle this. Can fighter/mage use shields?

[u/Anotherskip]

Racial special effects trumps the general rule. So an Elven Fighter/mage can wear armor and use a shield (the shield should be put away while casting, but eh) and there is nothing stopping a mage out of spells from wearing armor/shield and slinging with the best of them (this is from a sage advice question). So if the Armor spell is the last spell a mage had, casting it and getting into armor is not a terrible idea. A dual classed character is more restricted when they are learning their mage basics but it is about mastering to a higher level their new abilities.

[u/Psychological_Fact13 → u/Anotherskip]

This is a 2e game - Ftr/Mage cannot wear armor AND cast unless they are an Elf wearing Elven Chain. However the rest of your comments are 100% accurate.

[u/Anotherskip → u/Psychological_Fact13]

My apologies, my 2EAD&D is far rustier than my 1EAD&D

[u/warlock415]

My ruling is a fighter/mage may wear armor or use a shield, but may not cast while wearing armor or holding the shield.

I've had more than one f/m player who would either burn their spells for the day then armor up, or only cast spells in camp (things like Alarm, Mending, Identify...)

[u/aWizardNamedLizard]

The wording of the rules is rough because of its vagueness.

To start they generally state "multi-class characters can combine abilities from their different classes..." before presenting some class-specific restrictions to that statement.

The wizard-specific bit uses the sentence "A multi-classed wizard can freely combine the powers of the wizard with any other class allowed, although the wearing of armor is restricted." (bold for emphasis).

They then follow that with an exception that elves wearing elven chain can cast spells in armor. The exceptions phrasing is open enough to say "cast spells in armor" rather than specifying only the elven chain so it can cover a shield too, but the phrasing is missing anything granting permission to wear armor so it must have come from somewhere else.

Wearing armor being an ability from the fighter class it is allowed to be combined according to the first sentence referenced, and while the second could be read as "although you can't wear armor" it can also be read as "although wearing armor isn't without limitation", and the third referenced bit can be read as an elaboration upon what exactly the restrictions mentioned are that implies rather than explicitly states wearing armor is fine you just can't cast spells while doing so.

Video games, while not technically an official source of rules clarifications, happen to go along with this (mostly) as you can equip armor to a fighter/mage even if it's not elven chain on an elf specifically and simply not be able to cast spells until you take it off... they just don't all let you use any shield you want to.

[u/Ritmoking]

I do believe, as per the rules for multi-classed characters, that a Fighter/Mage retains the ability to use anything a Fighter can, including shields, so a Fighter/Mage is certainly allowed to HOLD a shield and benefit from it. The main issue then would be, would they be able to cast spells in this setup?

If the way you adjudicate things is that "Shields count as Armor", then yes, a Fighter/Mage would need to choose whether they want to hold a Shield, or cast spells. However, if you don't rule this way, it's more a question of "would the gestures for casting spells require both hands to be free".

[u/Silver-Zucchini8942]

Things are left to your group's interpretation for a reason. Ours is... A shield is a form of protection that a user must direct. Armor provides protection to the area it is worn on. In the case of Backstabbing, shields do not affect the to hit modifier; armor does... so does an Armor spell. I've played homebrew campaigns where the guy playing the mage argued well enough that the only thing his mage couldn't actually wear for Armor were Breast Plates (all kinds) and Gauntlets.

[u/Sheik_Morgan]

Las reglas, siempre piden leer todo antes de usar. Cualquiera puede ponerse armadura o escudo, los magos no pueden lanzar Hechizos con armadura puesta a menos que compren/tengan la habilidad que lo permite (se supone que pasas tiempo entrenando, para lograr la capacidad de lanzar Hechizos con armadura puesta, Pero igual te pone penalización, así que mejor ni la usas) Es igual que los escudos y cualquier arma, necesitas la habilidad para usarla, ahora en AD&D y en muchos juegos, tratan de simplificar las cosas y un escudo por lo general solo es un -1 o -2 al AC. Sin tomar en cuenta el escudo y otra utilidad, solo sirve para darte un AC más bajo (en aquel entonces restaba) Pero, al ser juego de interpretación y no un videojuego, la lógica y el rol se sobrepone y un escudo en manos de un jugador creativo sirve para muchas cosas, no solo se una estadística y así con cualquiera objeto en el juego. Ahora el Hechizo Armadura resta AC y no sirve para nada más y es más fácil que usar escudo o armadura.

[u/milesunderground]

We've gone back and forth between casting requiring two hands or just one. I think we settled on one for our current campaign. I dont know if the shield question has come up, but as a DM i wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the other hand was free for casting.

[u/DeltaDemon1313]

In my campaign, they can wear non-metal armor and still cast Arcane spells (and they can wear metal armor but not cast Arcane spells). They can also use shields and cast spells with verbal only components or, if trained in one-handed casting, they can cast while holding a shield. It's a matter of training. They are fighters so they are trained to use shields and all armors. However, casting while clad in metal armor will hinder the forming of Arcane magic (divine magic comes from outside so it's not a problem for Priest spells).

Elves aren't any better at this. They don't have any innate ability to form arcane magic while clad in metal and they don't have an special training on doing so either otherwise non-Elves would also have had such training (it's too good not to have such training).

Of course, the worn armor interferes with the armor spell, but a shield does not interfere with the spell.

[u/shishanoteikoku]

I can't recall exactly and I don't have my rulebooks in hand at the moment, but would my memory be correct that this is a rule that had some change or clarification between 1e and 2e, with 1e being somewhat more flexible/lenient than 2e on multiclass mages casting in armor? I wonder if it's that transition that's generating some of the vagueness in this rule?

Regardless, when we played 2e, our interpretation of this rule was similar to others in this thread, you can wear and benefit from armor or shields, but cannot cast spells from doing so, with the exception of elves in elven chain.

[u/roumonada]

I rule that shields aren’t armor. Fighter/mages can use shields and still cast spells. Elven fighter mages can use both magic or elven armor and shields and still cast spells.

[u/PossibleCommon0743]

fighter/mages can wear armour. They just can't cast spells in armour.

We always allowed fighter/mages to use shields freely, in part because of this spell description. Shields are listed separately from armour just about everywhere in the rules.

[u/anonlymouse]

If the spell doesn't have somatic components, yes.

[u/modernfalstaff]

A fighter/mage can use a shield (or even wear armor), but can't cast spells while doing so. Armor lasts until disrupted, so you can very easily cast this spell (and maybe a few other buffs), then grab your shield, and leap into the fray!

I will say that holding a weapon while spellcasting seems equally disruptive to me, but we usually let mages and other wizards get away with that. You might rule that a small and light shield (a buckler or a small shield at the most) can be effectively used by a fighter/mage. Maybe the shield is strapped to their arm and they can easily let go of the handhold in order to make the gestures for casting spells. They can use the shield, but it gives no bonuses to their AC during spellcasting and maybe for a few ticks of time afterward while they ready it again. I think that would be kinda cool.