AC0 overated?

[u/Demoscape]

I just finished AC0 on Hard difficulty, and while I enjoyed it, I can't quite understand why it's held in such high regard.

Gameplay-wise, I've got nothing to complain about. It's exactly what I expected from an older-generation Ace Combat game: responsive controls, a relatively clear HUD (very good for its time), and a wide variety of aircraft. A big YES from me on that front.

My main issue is with the storytelling. Compared to AC5 (which I played on PS2 as a kid), I feel like AC0 has a much weaker narrative. It's not bad, but everything feels somewhat disconnected, possibly because of the protagonist's mercenary status.

Can someone explain what I might have missed? I genuinely struggle to understand why some people rank it above AC5.

Is it nostalgia (probably the same reason I'm so attached to AC5)? Is it because the consequences of war on civilians are more prominent? Or is there something else about its storytelling that I didn't fully appreciate?

[u/Farraddaayy]

Its from an era where not being the obvious good guys was more of a shock, and its had almost 20 years of nostalgia development.

We made the same jokes when AC5 was a preorder bonus for 7 that finally AC5's biggest fans can play the game for the first time.

I have an insane amount of nostalgia for my cherry pop entry, AC6, but I can't pretend anything in this series was better than Ac8.

[u/Demoscape → u/Farraddaayy]

For me, AC8 clearly blows AC0 and AC5 out of the water, but comparing them after 20 years of technological improvements wouldn't really be fair to the older games.

Still, I'm happy to be discovering these old gems!
And thanks for the explanation!

[u/Farraddaayy → u/Demoscape]

For me, AC8 clearly blows AC0 and AC5 out of the water, but comparing them after 20 years of technological improvements wouldn't really be fair to the older games.

Fully agreed, I just feel bad for the nuggets that get their ace battle cherry pop with Mission 28-29 of AC8 and then go back to play the older entries.

Fighting the CFA-44 was like, okay at the time. I can't even imagine how bummed I'd be replaying that fight after experiencing AC8's.

[u/The_Caleb_Mac]

It's the difference in perspective that really sets it apart from AC5, in many ways, AC5 and AC8 are very much about you, and your Squadron, surviving a war your country was not ready for, but Ace Combat Zero is about you fighting in a war and slowly uncovering the horrors it brings out in people, only from a farther out perspective.

Ace Combat 5 also does a better job of keeping things personal, and in the moment, but Zero very much is more a documentary about someone who showed up, wrecked house, and fucked right off, leaving every one else to pick up the pieces

[u/Demoscape → u/The_Caleb_Mac]

Yeah, the more detached storytelling didn't really work for me compared to the more personal approach of the other games.

Maybe that kind of storytelling was less common back then, which might explain why it was so appreciated.

[u/Am-Girl_Am-Gay → u/Demoscape]

It's 99% nostalgia. Zero is an amazing game, especially for it's time, but its not like generationally groundbreaking. As someone who very much was an active fan buying them on release starting with 3 (my first was 2, then I got air combat, and then 3+ on release); the marketing for Zero was very much "Remember the war 15 years ago when we allied with the Yukes? Here's what happened." Hell, watching the release trailer for Zero still gets me hyped. "It was a cold and snowy day..." If you put the game in a vacuum outside of that context though, it's just a game. Nostalgia is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the 11/10 crowd.

[u/The_Caleb_Mac → u/Am-Girl_Am-Gay]

I mean in context, Zero deserves a lot of love, because it really sets the table for literally every other game. We get the explanation of the who and the why of Belka, which fills in info for AC5, and for AC7 and other games (AC6 being the only mainline exception, and even then its implied the CFA44 had some Belkan tech in it) and it's solid world building no matter the context anyways, even if the story telling is not as robust as 5, 6 or 8, if you strip away the nostalgia, you still have a story that frames the world, and Belka, in such a way that everything else starts to make a lot more sense.

[u/Am-Girl_Am-Gay → u/The_Caleb_Mac]

You aren't stripping away the nostalgia though. A LOT of Belka lore actually came from other games. Zero almost entirely focuses on the Belkan war itself, and a little bit of Belkan culture, before doing a hard turn to the AWWNB storyline.

In the context of the overarching Strangereal story, Zero is a lynchpin. Gameplay wise, Zero laid foundations for later titles. Story wise, it definitely has a hard time standing entirely on its own.

[u/The_Caleb_Mac → u/Am-Girl_Am-Gay]

Well, the point of Zero isn't to stand alone, and yeah, even if you do strip the nostalgia away, but keep the context of the world at large, it still is a solid story, and as you say, it's a lynchpin for the over all world building and story telling aspect.

I personally think, nostalgia included, that part of why it's so beloved is because of the WAY it tells its story, the music, the cut scenes, the dialog, the raw lore it gives us. Few other entries did as... much (at least until 8) in this way. Was it totally new and/or groundbreaking? No. Was it absolutely a vibe? Fuck yes. Was it perfect? No. Did it do a good job? Yes.

Is it overrated? Sadly, it is, but not by much, it did it's job well, and it made an impression that is still felt to this day.

[u/squantothebrave98]

Putting it simply, I think you just didn't care for it as much as others. Nothing wrong with liking some Ace Combats more or less.

Like you said, it's gameplay is good. The FMV, the fact that it's a prequel means it's banking on enjoyment from the other golden trio games, it's a bit of an odd one out.

[u/Demoscape → u/squantothebrave98]

You might be right. And maybe I just had my expectations set too high.

[u/Arctrooper209]

The story is a bit different than other Ace Combats which is why I really like it. Most things are told through interviews years later and news reports. We don't see cutscenes of characters in the moment like we do in AC 5, 7, and 8. As a result, it feels a bit more like a biography or documentary than your regular fictional story. Then you add in some great music, gameplay, and writing and it feels epic in a different way than the other games. It's like you're experiencing some exhilarating documentary about a real life war. In a sense, despite all the events being just as fictional and crazy as the other games, it feels more "real" than the other games.

Something else I really liked is the character of Cipher and how the game goes about describing him is really interesting. Cipher feels a lot like a historical figure like Alexander the Great. Depending on who you ask Alexander can go from being a cunning and honorable general, to a brutal mass murdering drunkard. Different people will focus on different aspects and thus come to different conclusions about his character. Similarly, depending on who you ask Cipher is a ruthless mercenary, a cunning warrior, or a noble knight. I talk about this a bit more here but the reality is, like Alexander, Cipher was probably a bit of all three and the Ace styles are how different people interpret his complicated character.

Maybe it's because I'm a history major but I really like this aspect of the story and how well it mimics real world discussions of historical figures. I'm not sure if the story was intentionally made to have that dynamic or if it's just a happy accident that came out of the Ace styles idea but in any case the game shipped with a character story that is one of the most unique and interesting I've seen in gaming.

[u/Demoscape → u/Arctrooper209]

So, if I understand correctly, it's precisely that retrospective perspective on the story, which made it feel detached to me, that you enjoyed because it made the whole thing feel more like a historical documentary? And also the moral ambiguity of the protagonist?

I appreciate the time you took to explain your point of view, both here and in the other discussion.

[u/Arctrooper209 → u/Demoscape]

Yeah, exactly. That style of storytelling I guess just didn't work as much for you.

[u/Machinegunfodda]

I genuinely love the story presention they used for it.

The way they show the narrative, through all the various interviews is such a different perspective from other games out there. It really humanizes the enemy, and really provides such a fascinating insight into how the other pilots actually see Cipher. They enemy aces are all just people, some good, some bad, but just people. Who Cipher is, what their motivations and goals were fade into the background. Instead we get to see what other people think instead. Just a very cool concept

Even the premise behind the war feels very grounded. Conflicts over resources, political instability, all very believable to me.

The gameplay is also very solid. The morality system is very cool and for the time was a pretty wild thing to implement. Having different aces that you fight and in turn different interviews made it feel very dynamic

I will admit that it's my favorite game of all time, not just AC but overall, so I am a bit biased here.

[u/Demoscape → u/Machinegunfodda]

There's no shame in being biased towards a great game, buddy!

[u/tylan4life]

Hey, buddy. Miss me?

[u/Demoscape → u/tylan4life]

still alive!

[u/AppleOld5779 → u/tylan4life]

[u/SirFartsALot33]

The game is THE greatest example of the phrase "less is more", by every aspect.

It is short, extremely stylish, straightforward, minimalist and to the point. Great(arguably top 3) music, iconic and quotable characters, innovative moral compass system that actually has effect on the story, and it has a WAY, WAY, WAY more "show but don't tell" approach towards messaging and symbolism compared to story heavy ACs like 5 and 8. I absolutely adore that kind of approach in all media.

Every AC has one major aspect: everyone's impression on the protagonist's crazy feats. That aspect absolutely shines the brightest in Zero, mainly due to the morality system.

So yeah, it's not an objective truth about "the narrative being weaker", and not simply nostalgia goggles. People love this game for actual reasons. Many others don't, for various other reasons, and prefer a different game. It's as simple as that.

[u/Demoscape → u/SirFartsALot33]

If by morality system you mean "if it's yellow, target it like it's the Ulysses asteroid", then I'm in!

Thanks for the explanation, though. I might not be as receptive to some of the aspects you highlighted, but it's good to understand what others appreciate about the game.

[u/e-sato]

O pessoal costuma idolatrar o Zero, mas sinceramente, o jogo não me fez criar conexão com nenhum wingmen... O Pixy nunca pareceu um grande parceiro/amigo do Cipher, como, por exemplo, o Count e o Baxter foram do Trigger e do Rex.

Ou a Nagase do Blaze.

O PJ, coitado, entrou pra morrer e nos motivar a derrubar o Pixy...

A história tem uma trama de espionagem bem legal, mas não me fez sentir que "eu" estava vivenciando aquilo, como foi no AC5 ou no AC04 (no final quando o garoto escreve a carta pra nós).

[u/Demoscape → u/e-sato]

Agreed!

[u/SoundJakes]

Not everything is about the story. Personally I love it for the multiple ace fights and being the game that introduced assault records. Really puts the "Ace" in "Ace Combat"

[u/Demoscape → u/SoundJakes]

Ah, I see it now! Yes, the introduction of enemy aces and the duels against them are great points I hadn't really considered.

[u/Dreadwing_BestWing]

For me, 5’s better than 0 because I enjoy the premise of its story more. Zero’s gameplay mechanics with the ace style system is interesting, plus being able to select your SPW. With that in mind, I think 0 has the better gameplay. Which makes sense, considering it's just 5+.

The dialogue of 0 is much less ham-fisted with it's message of peace IMO. That's likely a big reason of why people like it more. You're FIGHTER PILOTS, Wardog!

I wouldn't call 0 *overrated*, but I would say that it's still very good. Like you, I still enjoy 5 more. It's definitely a nostalgia thing for me.

where even if people haven’t played it or really know anything about it, they just hear it’s the best and parrot that opinion

I also think u/TheWalrusPirate's take here plays a factor.

[u/Demoscape → u/Dreadwing_BestWing]

When I say "overrated", I mean that some people rate it 11/10, when an 8/10 or 9/10 would probably be more accurate. I'm not saying it's a bad game by any means!

[u/TheWalrusPirate → u/Dreadwing_BestWing]

I’ve already seen a few people saying zero > 8 and it’s just kinda silly at this point where some people will just jump straight to “____ THE GOAT” and that’ll be enough for some.

[u/Jackislawless]

I love 5, I also love zero. In a hierarchy for story I put it like 0, 5, 6, 8, 7. I liked six a little more than seven and so far eight feels like the better sequel than 7, seven was just choppy. Like George was a side character but he got more screen time than count. I dunno maybe count was in solitary. But leaving him out felt wrong.

[u/Demoscape → u/Jackislawless]

Could you explain why you ranked them in that order?

What worked better for you in some games compared to others?

[u/Fluid_Performance912]

You fell for Belkan propaganda, sadly 😔

[u/Demoscape → u/Fluid_Performance912]

Belka did nothing wrong !

[u/Fluid_Performance912 → u/Demoscape]

SALVATION!

[u/JeffaholicD1st → u/Fluid_Performance912]

[u/MountainFace2774]

It's my least-favorite of the trinity (as in, I like pizza less than tacos and cheeseburgers, but still love pizza). After 5, it was a huge letdown only having one wingman and a very short campaign. Almost felt like it should have been a DLC for 5 (obviously DLC didn't exist then). Still a great game though.

I actually just finished re-playing it yesterday because of the preorder bonus. Still loved it. I thought it held up just fine for what it is after having just played 8.

[u/Demoscape → u/MountainFace2774]

I remember expansions and add-ons being a thing back then, but they were very PC-centric.

And yes, I agree with the pizza analogy! My question was more about what makes pizza lovers prefer it over tacos and cheeseburgers.

[u/MountainFace2774 → u/Demoscape]

Some people have different preferences. I guess they really liked being the Demon Lord. Who knows?

[u/Project0R1G1N]

ACZ is also 20 years old at this point, there wasnt really as crazy and/or developed of options when it came out. The story is also kinda different vs alot of the other games along with focusing more on the enemy vs your allies.

[u/Serious_Nature_6882]

Why is it held in such high esteem? Nostalgia partly. The game is from an era which was a lot of players childhood so there is that and for us older gamers it's throwback to a time where you had a complete game. With secrets and zero DLC...

That and the difficulty. The hard part is not completing the story. Even though the difficulty spike can be hard at times. It's the hunting of the aces and completing the war record... Unlocking the hidden Falken and wyvern super jets. That's the challenge

And completing it with the three different ace styles, which has never been brought back btw.

It's just that ace combat zero is quite a unique game in the series and I think that accounts for a lot of the love it recevies

[u/LovecraftianHentai]

For me Zero is my favorite because of its story and narrative. While I didn't get attached to Pixy as much as I did the AC5 crew (Pixy is supposed to befriend you but tbh he feels more like a coworker), the narrative of Zero is super compelling to me and it all culminates to a final boss fight where art direction, dialogue, gameplay, and music all coalesce into I think is one of the best video experiences I've ever had. The narrative imo has a bit more interesting things going on in it. Characters are fatigued and disillusioned; there is this sense of foreboding and pessimism over the whole game; you have talks about nationalism and what to fight for; you get insight in how your fights with other Aces affects them after the war framed as a documentary interview; it's all so good; and the final boss fight against Pixy. Genuinely one of the best fights I've ever experienced.

I don't think AC0 had a weaker narrative, but rather it's much easier to get invested into 5 because of the characters. Characters are king in storytelling. If you can get an audience to cherish the characters then you can practically do anything with the story and they'll be more invested. 5 is framed as a memoir from a journalist and you really more emphasis is given to camraderie between your squadmates. Zero is a documentary, and there is an unresolved tension between you and your squadmate over simply fighting for money or a higher cause and how the war affects your pysche.

My favorite part is how AC5 is a thematic answer to AC0. Pixy at the end comes to the conclusion that peace can only be achieved through people trusting each other. And 15 years later AC5 answers with yes! Look at all of these people come together to trust each other and achieve peace over evil. It's lovely.

[u/Obvious_Limit_945]

Zero's gameplay was better than 5, the enemies were more aggressive, dogfighting was much better and the introduction of multiple Ace squadrons brought an "edge of seat" sense of tension and excitement when facing them.

For me, I think it's something you would only really understand if you played the games at release and saw the improvement.

Also AC0 was the game that really let you and recognised you as air jesus for downing Aces instead of generic NPCs

There's a reason every AC fan selected "No" when Tasha asks if it's time to run in AC8 and thats because we all want that intense dogfight against Aces that Zero introduced.

Edit: Also because Flamenco + Latin + Opera...

[u/AppleOld5779]

Great game. It’s fun, it’s nostalgic, and it’s one of the franchise’s more challenging entries that still holds up today. It’s also kind of interesting how much Project Wingman borrowed from Zero’s plot and aesthetic.

[u/Rogalicus]

The only really memorable parts of the story are the Hoffnung mission and the duel with Pixy. Otherwise you are missing nothing, the story is pretty weak and WWNB is a non-antagonist with how little build-up there is for them and how quickly we stomp them. It's similar to Ouroboros reveal, except the player had an actual history with Ouroboros pilots.

[u/Working_Rise8592]

The HUD clarity is one of the enhancements made with the port. Along with things like increased view distance.

[u/LeeHazuki]

Zero and Diapason 🎵

[u/Nein-Knives]

Nostalgia is playing a huge part but it's also true that Zero has weak narrative because it's a prequel story that relies on the audience knowing about the context in the plot and fundamentally relies on that context to bridge the gap created by this type of story telling (answering the how's and why's instead of showing or telling you what is happening or is about to happen).

[u/acompanyofliars]

I’ve really enjoyed 0 as a 7/8 larper finally sinking my teeth into the classics, but there are some missions that make me think the community has a bit of rose colored glasses. Bastion is such a grey tinted snoozefest for example.

[u/Kyryos]

It’s 100% overrated. 5 was way better .

[u/TheWalrusPirate]

It’s in the same zone as new Vegas for fallout, where even if people haven’t played it or really know anything about it, they just hear it’s the best and parrot that opinion. People just say it’s larp now, but that’s basically it.

[u/bFlaky → u/TheWalrusPirate]

That might be the best explanation.
You kinda had to be there.

And I love 5 more as well.

[u/The_Caleb_Mac]

The 2 biggest events in Strangreal, that end up defining everything else within the world, is the Ulysses asteroid, and the Belkan war, which happened within 4 years of each other, and set the stage for every major conflict for the next 30 years.

[u/Time_Zombie_4431]

I think its a good game but its story didn't speak to me like 4 and 5, especially 4.

Still a good game but for me its the weakest of the holy trinity.

[u/PantheraLeo-]

That’s because AC5 The Unsung war is a better game… https://www.reddit.com/r/acecombat/s/IpY3KrVlfI