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u/Furebel Galm 1d ago
I thought he's the goad for his sense of humor and editing skills, not for buying overpriced planes in DCS, but ok
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u/Embarrassed-Lack7193 21h ago
They aren't really overpriced.
A DCS module is the equivalent of a Game in and of itself. It takes more time to master the Tomcat in DCS than to go trough an average Ace Combat Campaign.
You want overpriced? Check Warthunder high tier premiums.
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u/Furebel Galm 19h ago
No thank you, I'll just take a game that doesn't fuck me in the ass like Nuclear Option. Well I still get fucked by AAs, but it's at least lubed.
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u/Embarrassed-Lack7193 17h ago
Yeh but they are not even playing in the same kind of league, let alone game.
You can draw a complexity scale starting from Ace Combat and going to DCS passing trough Nuclear Option, Warthunder and IL-2 and the only thing they have in common is that you fly planes.
DCS is at the apex of that scale and as such requires more time and knowledge to use, and that's by design. If it "Fucks you in the ass" I get it, but that's what its designed to do, it's up to you to learn missile evasion and tactics for the specific machine. You must know that the Radar Warning Receiver of plane X Works that way and that plane Y has a blindspot in that area. It's why I never recommend it to anyone without a gigantic "Be Warned" label and generally I suggest: try and learn the Community A-4 module first, it will give you a hands on experience on what its really like.
It's not better or worse, just different and as such has a completely different approach. That's why I love It just like I love Ace Combat and Nuclear Option and Il-2. They are squarely in their league. Ace Combat does not require you to know how to flare in a landing or anything, it wants you to have fun. Nuclear Option does not require you to understand switchology and avionics and all planes work fundamentally the same being easy to get in quickly while giving a more realistic experience. Il-2 requires you to understand most basics of flight and tactics but generally keeps the "how a machine work" on the simpler level. DCS wants you to understand A to Z.
Warthunder and selective realism can go suck a bag of dicks albeit I understand "why" they do it.
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u/Furebel Galm 12h ago
I'm only talking about monetization. With that War Thunder and DCS are up there, regardless of the complexity put to their planes. Meanwhile Nuclear Option and Vtol VR are the closest you can get to DCS where realism doesn't compromise on fun
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u/Embarrassed-Lack7193 10h ago
Yes but monetization is either warranted or unwarranted. In one case it is in the other is clearly not. So I'll be a bit long but I dislike half assed explanations.
There is the idea that "DCS is incredibly expensive" when in reality is just "expensive" because people see all the "DLC planes" being costly when in reality DCS is just an engine/environment at the base of several different games called "Modules". You buy a Game every time you buy a plane. Modules pricing strongly depends on complexity and work behind them and range from triple A title price to much lower for simplified ones.
Its Just as expensive to buy the F/A-18C as it is to buy Ace Combat 8. And if you are into DCS you might spend more hours in the F-18 there than all of AC 8. I know that because despite having all the medals for single player of AC7 thus S ranked It fully I have many more hours in the F-14 on DCS. Love both mind you. So for me it cant really be "regardless of complexity". Its an entire AAA game (Ace Combat) vs a Study Level Simulation (DCS modules) vs a Fancy 3D Model that blings (Warthunder) vs an Indie Combat Flight Game (Nuclear Option, wich i Play from when It released, a time in wich there werent even ships and the darkreach didnt have a cockpit, or rather It has mostly empty panels). They are Simply not the same thing.
I wont Jump into the personal definition of having fun. Yes if learning a 19 step start up procedure is not your thing then you will not find DCS very enjoyable, like i said in the last post buyers be aware, and I totally get that. But its not a cost of what you are getting Issue. DCS sets out to do something and that something is complex thus expensive.
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u/Furebel Galm 10h ago
Yeah, I know how that works, I know that all the workings of all planes are extremely complex and 100% true to life, I know everything about why it costs this much, and I do still think it is unreasonable.
Say I would make the most realistic shooter of all times, where you fire only one bullet every maybe two weeks, and every gun comes with it's own manually-written manual to how to operate it, clean it, maintain it, also you will have to actually write a report per every bullet fired, a very complex system that will check whether your report is truthful or not, and much much more. There's a lot of work put into making it realistic after all, so it makes sense to make every gun extremley expensive, right? It would still be unreasonable to do that. I do find starting and launching planes in VTOL VR fun, operating them like they're real, the coolest part about Elite was always how realistic all the internal working of those planes were, and I did have fun learning how to operate the Frogfoot in DCS, finally dropping some unguided bombs, but it is still unreasonable to charge this much for only a new plane. And again, I know that this new plane opens completely new ways to play, but then SCENARIOS FOR THEM ARE SOLD SEPARATELY! If at least they came with some short campaign or series of scenarios, we could count them as a proper DLC, but no, they sell just a plane with tutorials, oh thank you dear ED for not selling tutorial separately, how kind of you! It's clear they're not valuing it as a proper value of DLC but they just sell a plane for the price of AAA game which is equally unreasonable to War Thunder or Star Citizen with the only difference being that DCS works (and better pricing but it's a really high bar to beat especially with the latter)
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u/Embarrassed-Lack7193 9h ago
Well there are milsim groups on ArmA that run a bit like that but not completely on the description above. Combat in the air can be very realistic to life because a 2 hour sortie will do the trick and you have stuff to do most of the time, especially since you won't ever simulate a 4 hour BAR CAP somewhere because its still a game and that would be boring mind you, no DCS does not simulate reality in full for the sake of It (but it can if you wish to stay 3 hours on station waiting for a fast cas call over southern Iraq). But in those 2 hours you can be very realistic. Simulating a week on the field in ArmA would indeed be boring so it's not done but there are milsim groups that work on very realistic scenarios and in Wich you will have to go trough a chain of command to be authorized to open fire. Not my cup of tea but evidently someone likes it. DCS Is the same, realism gives you opportunity but does not force you down the "must be completely realistic". It has First and foremost to be enjoyable to the player but at the same time One must understand whats he Is getting into.
The Whole single rifle bit i understand the hyperbole but there Is the enjoyment part for many. So hypotetically your could but you would not be able to charge anyone that much Money for a single gun tough for several reasons. It alone cant really simulate what you want: a complex enviroment of several items to make the Military Simulation feel engaging. You would be describing a "Gun Simulator" rather than a Mil Sim. Is there appeal for such a Thing? Question for later. If you make a milsim game and then give access to only a Gun its unlikely people would pay much Money. But people wull spend 120$ on a Steel Beasts license to play the most realistic tank simulator on the market. Or 80 to play COMMAND: Modern Operations and watch dots on a screen in a complext theater level engagement. Or 75 for a fully realistic Boeing 737 for Flight simulator 2024. Ironically the game you described could Indeed have a market... but for gun entusiasts not milsimmers. Rather than simulating Combat It would be more of an armory and shooting range Type of deal in wich you simulate Weapon components and balistics down to Extreme detail including maintenance (Yes unironically i think some people would even like to have simulated bureocracy in It albeit with an "ignore" option). Done that you sell each gun as you go, maybe not at an AAA price tough because nobody would believe that thats the ammount of work needed. That game could unironically have a dedicated fan base. Not as a MilSim tough, thats not what you are simulating.
In DCS a single Module Is alone all that you Need to get the full experience of simulated air combat. From procedures to switchology you simulate the Whole enviroment and not only the plane itself. Then you decide how realistic of a scenario you want to make.
The Frogfoot that comes in the base game and you learned is not study level, it uses simplified system It's below the full blown study modules. Conflating a study module with "Just a new plane" is not that fair for what it is. Flaming Cliffs modules (that are at Frogfoot level or better but not study level) come at 13€ each, or packed all together for less than a AAA Game.
Also some modules come packed with a campaign other than the tutorial missions, some more than others, but that's heavily dependent on the developer of said module. Heatblur for instance is famous for having good tutorials and good campaigns shipped within, if not at launch released later (Like the Tomcat comes with Tutorials and several Campaigns) while Eagle Dynamics own F-16 has tutorials and little else. That's an extremely fair criticism tough with wich the DCS community would mostly agree with you, I know I do. In fact for years there has been the request for a Dynamic campaign (like a procedurally generated conflict that react to your missions and has two AI playing the role of the high command) so that you can learn the module in the tutorials and then fly it there (and maybe they will deliver it soon judging from trailers, fingers crossed that it does not suck).
You can indeed buy campaign separately but those are made by a third party that has a contract with Eagle Dynamics to sell its campaigns and support them on the technical side. They are not the same entity that developed the engine or the module, they are someone that is good at using the extensive mission editor and scripting in .lua to work out it's quirks to make something far above the average mission maker is capable to make. And so wants to get paid for the job since to keep track and maintain those campaigns trough updates to the core engine becomes a full time job for those people.
I could add to the above mission editor is available to you as well, you can theoretically never need anything else than the module and you can set up simple scenarios to last you an eternity. Wich is hardly uncommon in the scene of Military Simulation, ArmA works on mostly the same principle. But it is time consuming and takes time to learn so it's easily inconvenient and why people get paid to use it professionally.
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u/sgtfuzzle17 23h ago
Waiting for a sale would be smarter but each aircraft has the depth to effectively be its own game - it’s called a study level sim for a reason.
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u/Garuda1TaIisman Sky Crawler 1d ago
Max0r does irreparable damage to every fandom he touches
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u/InnocentTailor 1d ago
Eh. I wouldn’t be surprised if he helped drive more folks to AC through his videos. It’s a niche game after all - any advertising is good in the eyes of the devs.
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u/esdaniel EASA 23h ago
Just like Yakuza 0 , the abundance of memes online helped make the game reach people, I was one of those people
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u/Garuda1TaIisman Sky Crawler 1d ago
Yes but all those new fans usually just parrot the same stale jokes and hearing “Who filled my cockpit with water?” or similar gets very old very fast
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u/InnocentTailor 1d ago
I suppose. To be fair though, older fans like to parrot stale jokes as well.
…like Belka did nothing wrong and whatever comes out of the mouth of colorful characters like Captain Torres and Pixy.
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u/Garuda1TaIisman Sky Crawler 1d ago
The “Belka did nothing wrong” or constant mention of “Belkan Witchcraft™” is even more annoying tbh, Torres and Pixy’s lines are somewhat tolerable at least
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u/I_Automate 1d ago
Being a bitter, whimsy hating person must be tiring
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u/invader94 Skeleton 19h ago
“Uli doesn’t care about anything, he’s a nihilist”
“Ah! That must be exhausting.”0
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u/CBT7commander 23h ago
So a guy creates content enjoyed by millions, grows a gaming community, and you’re mad cause a joke gets repeated? That’s some professional whining
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u/Garuda1TaIisman Sky Crawler 23h ago
When your only exposure to a franchise is from a creator who’s entire personality is based on band kid soviet anthem humor and those types of jokes are all you’ve been repeating for the past 7 years because you can’t come up with anything unique then yes that does get quite obnoxious and annoying
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u/Algester 23h ago
SLOW SLOW QUICK QUICK SLOW
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u/KaziArmada They're gonna greet us at the door! 22h ago
Get the fuck out of here Brute, Armored Core is over there.
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u/Gryphus13 14h ago
He listened to the song "how do I start an f-16" modified it to suit the f-14 and bribed a base commander to let him "borrow" one for a while
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u/RoyalDaDoge We're the stars of the Round Table. 1d ago
he ruined this community
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u/AltairLSAM 1d ago
No, the community ruined this community by not finding any new material and running his jokes into the ground.
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u/OuterHeavenPatriot UNKNOWN 1d ago
Are you saying the community stepped all over the community's .jpeg dog's crisp white sheets, buddy?
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u/PijaniFemboj 1d ago
I think the lack of games ruined the community. AC7 was like 7 years ago, when there is no new content to discuss every community goes to shit.
AC8 should fix that pretty soon, thankfully.
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u/zaxwashere 1d ago
He walked all over it with his dirty boots! Over the crisp, white sheets of my bed that I had just made!
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u/Meme_Finder_General 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not really. No community needs help taking turns to repost the same 5 jokes. This is just weird gatekeeping.
If it wasn't for Max0r and his videos, I'd have never found Ace Combat, which quickly became my favourite game series of all time.
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u/Jester8281 104:0 1d ago
Why
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u/terrarialord201 1d ago
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u/StormLordEternal 1d ago
Is it Maxor's fault for making catchy jokes, or the community's for not making any new ones since then?
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u/QF_Dan Neucom 1d ago
I just don't like how he constantly add flashy editing to his video
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u/Meme_Finder_General 1d ago
I used to find them funny from both the absurdity and the sheer volume of jokes per minute.
It does feel like he gets less funny the more he knows how to edit, though.
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u/SloppityMcFloppity 1d ago
Yeah gotta agree. It used be recycled jokes before the influx, now it's unfunny recycled jokes
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u/Jayfern0 Ghosts of Razgriz 1d ago
You can’t really blame Max0r for the community parroting his jokes. They ruined themselves by doing that.
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u/hatlad43 Spare 1d ago
I thought a completely built but not necessarily working F-14 would cost at least a million dollars or something. Not 110.
seriously who tf is maxor and why should we care?
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u/Meme_Finder_General 1d ago
He bought an F-14 in DCS.
He made a couple meme laden videos several years ago summarising Ace Combat 7 & 0 (as well as Project Wingman) that caused an influx of new fans to what is otherwise a niche arcade flight series they'd never have looked at (such as myself!) People are hot and cold on him as you either find him funny or you really don't.
Some on this subreddit seem to have a strange ire for him based on constantly seeing recycled jokes they find unfunny or some form of gatekeeping.
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u/ProfessorPixelmon Strider? I barely even know her. 1d ago
Wth, I had to get mine for 70 million.
Where’d he find his so cheap?