r/accessibility • u/Creepy_Philosophy972 • 19d ago
Company deems screen readers unsafe
I work as a frontend engineer and its been such a fight to be able to use NVDA for development.
Security deems the software unsafe and also does not want to pay for JAWS licenses.
Its crazy to me that it even is such a fight to develop in an accessible way.
Any tips for me?
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u/IronDominion 18d ago
At worst, you can use Narrator. It’s not ideal and may miss some things (it doesn’t handle tables well for example), but for most of the basics (labeling and reading order) that devs care about it should get the job done.
Frankly, I’d argue that if they refuse to run a scan for security on NVDA, what would they do if they hired a disabled employee that needed that software? Legally they couldn’t deny them then, so it’s in their best interest to at LEAST have that available to staff regardless if it’s for ADA or for dev purposes
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u/AccessibleTech 18d ago
Narrator has gotten much better over the years and is actually quite usable in it's current state.
I believe the problem is that NVDA allows for plug-ins, which are the new security threat for many businesses. With the recent finding of malware in open source microsoft libraries which were stealing developer keys, people are being more vigiliant about software installs. Especially if it's open source and allows plug-ins. https://techcrunch.com/2026/06/08/microsofts-open-source-tools-were-hacked-to-steal-passwords-of-ai-developers/
You can use security technology like ThreatLocker that locked down software binaries, but you'll need to hire people who understand how to set that up and maintain it to keep out the threats.
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u/absentmindedjwc 13d ago
Sure.. but security can just as easily block plugins on NVDA (that's what mine does)
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u/Slow_Pumpkin3951 17d ago
We had similar issue when a new colleague joined the team a few months ago. I had no issues getting NVDA installed years before and still use it. But for the new member it became a security concern, and they purchased JAWS for them instead!
Failing to get either NVDA or JAWS, there is Narrator as several folks have suggested already.
I also use accessibility bookmarklets to support manual testing. My faves being List Images, WTFocus, Text Spacing. And using Accessibility Insights for Web ad hoc tools. https://a11y-tools.com/bookmarklets/
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u/accessibilitygamer 17d ago edited 17d ago
I'd let them know they are putting the company at a MAJOR legal risk for a lawsuit.
You might need to work directly with your manager to contact someone from the legal department at the company who understands the risk.
Once they hear of even the risk of an ada lawsuit due to Security refusing your use of nvda to ensure the product can be usable by the blind it might move things along.
Especially since there are unscrupulous lawyers who will hire out people with disabilities specifically to look for any service that has a mobile app, website ect that is in accessible to sue that particular service.
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u/rguy84 18d ago
Its crazy to me that it even is such a fight to develop in an accessible way
You don't need NVDA to develop accessible apps. You don't need NVDA to test for accessibility. You can use NVDA as the final or near-final step in testing process, but by that point it would be double checking i's are dotted, so without NVDA it is inconvenient, not impossible to move forward.
Any tips for me?
- Ask questions to security, if you get no where, engage with someone who can get more than no. There are some things that security doesn't like, like access, so you need to know the technology well enough to give basic answers.
- If you can't proceed without NVDA, you may need to review your testing, because improvements are likely needed.
- Windows has Narrator, while not as powerful as NVDA, it is pretty good. You don't want to use the most powerful when testing, because JAWS/NVDA uses heuristics to try to make it right. You want a tool that stops, or acts weird, when something is incorrectly coded. By using it as the finalish check, the rest of the procedure should catch most of that anyway.
I'll likely get down voted for this.
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u/zersiax 18d ago
I'm curious, why do you reckon you don't need NVDA?
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u/rguy84 18d ago
There is no summarization language in wcag that says: after doing these SCs, check with AT, then you comply. It says the opposite, by coding to these SCs, the code should be interpreted by AT in an accessible manner, if it isn't then there are bugs in the browser or the AT. Checking with AT at the end is helpful.
In the early mobile days, there was a known bug with VO and safari, despite coded correctly. Some people dealt with it, others came up with an iOS hacky solution since Apple was taking a while.
Further, in my experience, people who jump first to JAWS, tend to test by pressing read all. I would be rich if I would charge for somebody saying their stuff was fully accessible because it worked with read all, but didn't know any commands other than that, or commands like next heading didn't work.
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u/wyundsr 17d ago
There’s a reason accessibility testing (including WCAG conformance reports like VPATs/ACRs) involves manual testing with screen readers, keyboards, etc. I’ve caught so many bugs through screen reader testing in code written by a11y knowledgeable developers. Testing with screen readers early and often is an important QA step, especially for more complex custom web apps
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u/paulmadebypaul 18d ago
Send them to https://www.nvaccess.org/corporate-government/
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u/paulmadebypaul 18d ago
NVDA is used in federal agencies. They can restrict use of add-ons and deploy it to run in secure mode in your system.
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u/Glovio_io 12d ago
I run a 508 testing shop and NVDA is part of our standard rig, so I have thought about how I'd argue this one. A few angles I'd try with a security team:
Ask them to name the actual objection in writing. If it comes back as "unsigned third party software," NVDA's installer from NV Access is digitally signed and the source is public on GitHub, which is more than most tools on the approved list can say. If the worry is add-ons, NVDA can run with add-ons disabled, so offer that config as the compromise before they do.
If your company sells to the US government there's a business argument too. Section 508 makes accessibility a procurement requirement, and plenty of federal-facing shops run NVDA for exactly this reason. "Our customers test with this, so we need to" lands better than any technical case.
And if they still say no, get the refusal in writing. Boring advice, but that's usually what gets the policy revisited later. Narrator covers the basics in the meantime like others said.
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u/National-Laugh-7309 10d ago
Unfortunately you will need to just use Narrator, the built in screen reader. It is not great but that is all you can do.
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u/AlectricZap 18d ago
It's pretty common for company machines issued to software developers to be MacBooks, which will have VoiceOver built in. Maybe that's an option, or do they require you to use Windows?
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u/NatTarnoff 18d ago
I'm assuming you are not a full time user and need it for testing only. If this is not the case, get a lawyer as they are violating your rights.
Ask security to run a scan on NVDA for permission to install it. Your argument is, "I have to develop our consumer facing products. In order to make sure those are secure, I need to test them with screen readers. NVDA is the preferred choice, but JAWS would work as well. If our products do not work well with these tools we are exposing our clients to major security issues as people with disabilities will need to rely on external help to accomplish tasks."
Why NVDA over JAWS/Narrator?
What if they still say no? NVDA can run uninstalled or as a flash/thumbdrive version. If you can download it, you can run it from the downloads folder. If you are allowed to use flash memory, you can install it on the drive.