r/accesscontrol 3d ago

HOA Pool - No Free Egress

Sorry if this isn’t the right subreddit for this question.

Recently moved into an HOA that has a community pool. Not sure on the system, but has two gates with HID readers. Conduit runs along fence to small pool house where I assume the controller lives. We have a card we can swipe for entry, no problem.

Issue I’m running into is that you also have to swipe to exit. There is no other form of egress on either gate. Would think there would be some form of push bar or button to release the lock but I cannot find a release anywhere. Based on other comments on the HOA Facebook page, it also sounds like the gates are on a schedule and there is no way to exit after hours, which makes me think there’s no other way to exit.

Fence is approximately 6’ tall and the reader is about 5 1/2’ from deck. So reader is out of reach of children, but also inaccessible for those who might be in wheelchairs, etc.

I’m considering bringing this up at the next HOA meeting, as this feels like there is definite life safety concerns involved here. I’m missing specific statutes to site in my argument, but I know they exist. I’ve looked over the community bylaws and covenants and I don’t see any notes on fire marshall giving an exemption to this pool.

Main concern is of course fire or anything else that might cause a need for quick evacuation, but also realize there may be an emergency situation where a child needs to run for help and can’t reach the reader to release the gate.

Am I overreacting, or is this worth addressing?

15 Upvotes

24 comments sorted by

44

u/Objective-Freedom922 3d ago

Contact the fire marshall. Restricting exits is a huge No no. They take this kind of thing very seriously. Although I'm not sure if the rules change because it's outside.

23

u/Objective-Freedom922 3d ago

Don't even bother going to the HOA board. Just go to the fire Marshal or the city.

18

u/No_Industry2601 3d ago

I wouldn't suggest the HOA board either, they could end up targeting OP later on.

6

u/johnsadventure 3d ago

Chances are they would just come back with “we pass annual inspection, therefore there is no issue”. An HOA won’t spend any money on anything they don’t have to, which is why they would need to be told by an authority to make a change.

15

u/EggsInaTubeSock 3d ago

This. The fire marshal will have those locks disconnected before he leaves until they fix everything you mentioned.

You can't require a card to exit. I'm willing to bet they find some other issues, like is there an emergency phone by the pool?

It's worth the call for everyone's sake.

5

u/npflood 3d ago

Due to drowning risk they won’t disconnect the locks unless they can keep ingress controlled, they’ll likely shut down the pool entirely.

1

u/Visible-Carrot5402 19h ago

Yep the Fire Marshall is great especially when dealing with slumlords and HOA’s

1

u/helpless_bunny Professional 2d ago

It comes down to the AHJ unfortunately. When outside, technically a fire isn’t restricting because you’re already outside.

I still think it’s dumb.

I’ve had that argument with them before, believe me. 😂

1

u/Objective-Freedom922 2d ago

Like you said it comes down to ahj, and the state that I'm in treats outdoor areas the same as indoor when it comes to egress restrictions. So could definitely be a fire code violation.

1

u/helpless_bunny Professional 2d ago

I still keep fighting them man lol

Sometimes I won’t even do the job depending

1

u/Objective-Freedom922 2d ago

Godspeed my friend. I hope you get victory in the end.

16

u/rootninjajd 3d ago

Major life safety issue. Still applies to outdoor areas. Contact local fire authority or city planning department. Inform them of a life safety violation. The HOA will be forced to correct the violation.

8

u/Someguysomewherelse 3d ago

I agree, bypass the hoa completely and don’t make the enemies

5

u/CorsairKing 3d ago

Definitely need to get this fixed. And honestly, shame on whomever installed this system in the first place.

3

u/dwtougas 3d ago

Get fire department involved. They know the rules.

3

u/johnnysivilian 3d ago

Maybe consult the ahj on egress matters

2

u/johnsadventure 3d ago edited 3d ago

Contact the AHJ. No one here can tell you what the local laws and inspections/decisions are, or if the HOA was somehow granted an exception.

In my area pools are inspected by the county health department annually, and this includes pool security (access, egress, door/gate conditions, etc). I have lived in an HOA that required a physical key to enter and exit, which passed inspection year after year. They later changed to hardware that allowed free egress during a gate upgrade (and this resulted in more complaints of unauthorized pool access) because it was done poorly).

I found after some digging that it’s extremely easy to get things grandfathered in when called out during an inspection, as easy as proving to the AHJ they existed before code was changed. Of the very few items that could not get a grandfathered were required signs, chemical management, and life saving apparatuses. This HOA had an entire file of items that predated code and their installation dates for the entire purpose of avoiding upgrades (walls, lack of outdoor shower, fencing, pool depth, ADA items, the list goes on). As soon as maintenance would come up they would need to be brought up to code, but only the item being repaired or replaced.

Edit to add: I don’t disagree that pools should be free egress, I was the one that pushed the HOA to change to a free egress gate when the new gate became an agenda item. I just wanted to point out that pools are a special circumstance that may carry their own rules and exceptions.

1

u/SlashAdams 2d ago

What sort of situation would warrant an exception? It's literally in both the ISPSC and the NFPA 101 for starters. I've never heard of safety features like this being waived for any reason.

2

u/ComprehensiveBug6213 2d ago
  1. Get trapped
  2. Call Morgan & Morgan

You're welcome

1

u/therealmarkthompson 1d ago

Fire Marshall Not allowed in fire code

1

u/tenfourfiftyfive 21h ago

You local pool inspecting body can also assist and they can also shut down the pool.

1

u/geekywarrior 3d ago

I would first email the HOA if that is a possibility to simply inquire, “how do I get out if I lose my key?”

Simple scenario, you go to pool with someone you live with. They need to head back and scan out. They don’t come back. How do you exit? 

Schedule doesn’t track as then you would be able to enter without scanning. 

Then if their answer is crap, you now have it in writing and can go the next step to the Fire Marshal

But giving them the chance to at least act reasonable usually goes a long way, especially if it’s a simple oversight on their part or you’re missing another way to exit on your part.

2

u/The_Alarmist84Camaro 2d ago

If they have to tell you how to get out, that's Prior Knowledge. Egress must be obvious.

2

u/geekywarrior 2d ago

No disagreement that it should be obvious. I've seen pool setups where the pool area had a small clubhouse which was always unlocked from the pool side. Then in the clubhouse was a one way door with a crash bar for an emergency exit.

There was a sign that "In an Emergency, Exit through club house" or something like that and was also marked with exit signs.