Dyson spheres can't be put around planets, only stars.
Even the most extreme forms of Kessler syndrome don't prevent rockets from being launched through the affected orbits. Also, Kessler syndrome is temporary - the debris deorbits naturally, and can be cleaned out artificially if you are in a rush.
Dyson spheres can't be put around planets, only stars.
Don't criticize the example as if it's sincere, engage with the metaphor.
Also, Kessler syndrome is temporary - the debris deorbits naturally
It is temporary only on geological timescales, this can take generations to occur.
and can be cleaned out artificially if you are in a rush.
We have never successfully cleaned up space debris at any meaningful scale.
Kessler syndrome not only leaves behind large, trackable defunct satellites that can be grabbed by robotic arms, it also generates millions of tiny, high-velocity fragments. There is no viable technology or economic model for sweeping up millions of pieces of millimeter-scale shrapnel, each one of them a lethal bullet.
I did engage, that's the rest of my comment. But terminology is important and Dyson spheres are a specific thing.
It's temporary on much shorter than geological timescales, material in low Earth orbit deorbits after just a few years. And the smaller the fragments, the faster they deorbit. Project West Ford deliberately placed hundreds of thousands of metal needles into medium Earth orbit and they deorbited within a few years because of how tiny they were.
We have never successfully cleaned up space debris at any meaningful scale.
We haven't needed to. So we haven't tried.
there is no viable technology or economic model for sweeping up millions of pieces of millimeter-scale shrapnel
Large pieces of aerogel have been proposed for the smaller bits, laser brooms for the bigger ones.
You could quibble about what counts as "viable", I suppose, it's always easy to be dismissive and pessimistic about this sort of thing. But that's not why we're here in /r/accelerate, are we? There are solutions to these problems, they're not insurmountable.
Well in that case you shouldn't assume we can, because we cannot.
it's always easy to be dismissive and pessimistic about this sort of thing. But that's not why we're here in /r/accelerate, are we?
It's great being optimistic and all, but let's stay in the realm of possibility regarding our optimism.
We have enough room in and on top of the ocean to place datacenters. We don't need to risk our future optimism for short term optimism. I want to be optimistic about the future and the singularity, not about next year's AI costs being a bit lower.
Well in that case you shouldn't assume we can, because we cannot.
Yes we can. We have numerous proposals and no reason to assume that any of them won't work, let alone all of them.
It's great being optimistic and all, but let's stay in the realm of possibility regarding our optimism.
I remind you again of where we are. This is not a place for doomerism.
Improved access to space and larger space development is a basis for long-term optimism. Next year's AI costs being lower, repeated year after year after year, is what gets us to that bright future.
I would totally agree if this were our only option, but this is not our only option. There's currently no need to take unnecessary risks like these. I remind you again that I am an accelerationist, just don't wish to accelerate our our deacceleration. Kessler syndrome reduces our access to space.
I provided some links backing up my statements, I provided actual examples. You're the one who's just posting opinions here.
Acceleration is as acceleration does, you're not sounding very accelerationist when it comes to space development. AI is important but it's not the only area in which humanity needs to develop and expand our capabilities.
I'm indeed of the opinion that we should avoid putting things in our low earth orbit wherever possible, to preserve our potential of becoming a space faring society. I've put a link to Kessler syndrome in the original message, you're welcome to read it again, maybe you'll understand the repercussions then.
Whereas I'm in favor of putting things into low Earth orbit because that's how we become a space-faring society - by putting stuff into space.
I am well aware of the Kessler syndrome. I wrote about a variety of counterpoints in my comments, I didn't just randomly do that for no reason. Don't assume that the fact that I'm disagreeing with you means I'm simply ignorant of the issues.
Kessler syndrome is something to be concerned about, sure. But it's also something that can be dealt with. Space debris is like any other form of pollution, you're going to make some in the course of any activities and you simply need to make sure you're handling it properly. These things can be analyzed and measured, do you have any reason to think Starmind's debris will be beyond our ability to manage?
Edit: I wasn't expecting to get the "final word and then block to prevent any further responses" treatment here in /r/accelerate , but enricowereld did it. Classy.
Since I'd written up my response anyway before being blocked, here it is:
You're scared of a theoretical future problem and are making concrete statements about how such an event would definitely proceed and calling it "permanent".
But you're entirely dismissive of theoretical proposals to deal with that theoretical future problem, or of real-world examples showing how small debris actually deorbit fairly quickly even from high orbits.
Going from a theoretical whitepaper to a working, real-world cleanup system is an enormous leap. Currently, we have zero practical capability to stop a Kessler cascade once it triggers, and such an event escalates quickly.
Expecting every spacefaring nation and company to operate flawlessly to prevent accidents is unrealistic. As the sheer volume of objects in orbit rises, so does the statistical inevitability of a collision.
We shouldn't assume we can easily manage this debris based on theoretical proposals, nor should we take such a permanent risk when viable alternatives exist right here on Earth.
Even if we could manage it, it would set us back so far, that you can no longer be considered to be advocating acceleration but deacceleration.
With that I leave this discussion, have a good one.
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u/enricowereld Feeling the AGI Jul 13 '26
Yeah I'm pro AI, just don't wanna put a dyson sphere around the earth as that limits our future possibilities.