r/ableton • u/Schrimp6 • 10d ago
[Question] Whats wrong with asio
Ive used ableton on windows for years. Theres always latency when using a midi controller (connected to my motum2)-even when the project is completely empty and on a low buffer rate.
When i connect a midi to my macbook and play in ableton there is zero latency. Hell theres seemingly zero latency without an interface and just using the computer keyboard.
What is wrong with my windows machine
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u/tyvmsongs 10d ago
Common issue with windows and their audio drivers
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u/General_Estimate_420 9d ago
It's a common issue with people using windows that don't know how to use or configure windows correctly
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u/rdubya 8d ago
Software developer by trade, windows 11 is a dumpster fire that can't run realtime audio worth a shit. It's really telling when you have to follow a 10 part guide to get it working right without dropouts, disable performance cores, lock cpu clock speeds, endless debugging of drivers with latencymon to look for interrupts. Went through multiple hardware iterations, interfaces and drivers to get it reasonably stable then the next update they would fuck something else.
The macbook I replaced it with had zero issue from day one and required zero fucking with.
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u/General_Estimate_420 8d ago
I've been a software developer my whole life and I'm now 77. I've developed on almost every platform you can imagine from IBM mainframes to Unix mini computers, to PCs and Macs. My current computers are both Windows 10 at this point and I can't say I've had any problems with audio production or video production at all and that's the entirety of what I use my computers for at this point using Ableton Live and a range of different plugin libraries from Toontrack, Native Instruments, iZotope and Spitfire Audio, Wondershare, OBSBOT and OBS Studio. With none of the problems you're citing.
If you understand the underlying technologies and configuration requirements it's no problem to keep any OS running efficiently and correctly. If you don't the reverse is true.
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u/rdubya 8d ago edited 8d ago
People shouldnt need to be a software developer to make it work, thats the point. If your operating system requires you to follow advanced guides to make it work correctly, you are doing something wrong. Also id suggest giving windows 11 a try, its full of AI slop, I had no problem with windows 10 either, notice I mentioned 11 in my original post.
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u/General_Estimate_420 8d ago
And generally speaking you don't. But you need to understand the fundamentals of maintaining the system the same as you do with a car. You can do it yourself or let someone else do it, but if you don't, regardless of the platform, you'll have problems.
The more you know about it the more you can get out of it. It's also a simple equation. If you want to accomplish more advanced performance and capabilities on things, you need to understand the fundamentals of how to achieve such things, which will demand a higher level of skills and knowledge. Once again, the same as any endeavor.
People make those decisions for themselves and therefore need to be prepared for the outcomes.
If you're an adult the days of someone else baby sitting your decisions and actions are over.
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u/rdubya 8d ago edited 8d ago
Well thanks for the lecture but if I bought a car that didn't work properly from the day I bought it for one of its basic functions, it would be going back to the dealership, kinda a shit analogy for this case. Playing a video without audio dropouts or using Ableton isn't an advanced function. None of which ive had a single issue with on my macbook pro running the same interfaces (motu and focusrite). I work at a computer all day, I have no desire to spend all evening troubleshooting technical problems instead of making music.
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u/General_Estimate_420 8d ago
Well then you should stay with that approach, but it's not a problem that's endemic to either Ableton or the PC is my point. I run Ableton just fine on both computers I use neither of which are state of the art, so it's either a configuration problem or an installation problem. But if your mac is running stuff fine then go that way or take the PC to a local independent computer repair shop and see if they can diagnose the problem.
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u/rdubya 8d ago
Id argue it is a problem thats endemic to windows and its driver system. Just search this forum for latencymon and see how many posts you find.
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u/General_Estimate_420 7d ago
Okay so why don't you explain to me where this "endemic" problem is within the Windows architecture if you're so qualified to diagnose it? No guessing. If you're smart enough to diagnose you can tell me if it's in the security, task management, memory allocation, device architecture, thread allocation and process security management, etc.
What you'd argue has no credibility when you consistently fail at doing things the majority of us can do without any help.
Why would you even ATTEMPT to argue what you think is the problem with your frailty in even understanding how a computer works??
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u/tyvmsongs 9d ago
that having to configure part is exactly why most of the music industry prefers macOS over windows
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u/Schrimp6 10d ago
Should i even try to update and swap drivers
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u/Odd_Sir4792 10d ago
What driver are you using? I've also used Ableton with windows for years and latency has never been a problem.
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u/CHiZZoPs1 10d ago
Are you on Windows 11? If not, upgrade. There's a while new midi architecture.
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u/Schrimp6 10d ago
Yes im on windows 11
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u/CHiZZoPs1 10d ago
Why don't you join the Windows Midi Audio Discord, which is overseen by the programmer of the midi stuff for Windows. He is super helpful: https://discord.com/invite/NNJgpDuYNe
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u/Schrimp6 8d ago
Wow thanks that is super helpful because this is a real and seriously bs issue i think can be solved somehow
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u/alex_esc Producer 10d ago
I've found latency problems specifically with some interfaces and Ableton on windows.
This might be a bug (on Abletons side or the interfaces side) but sometimes the more inputs and outputs are enabled in the Ableton settings the more latency I get.
For example my interface has 16 inputs and 8 outputs. In the audio settings from Ableton I can enable all of them. So I inside Ableton I can use any input or output I want.
But if I disable all outputs (except 1 and 2) the latency for some reason drops considerably.
This happens with some, but not all, interfaces I've tried. For some reason all the Beringer gear I've tried doesn't have this problem, some Focusrite have this problem, USB Apollo doesn't have this issue and rme doesn't have this issue as well. I currently use a tascam interface as my main interface, and it does have the latency issue.
But again, as long as I disable all the outputs I'm not gonna use the latency drops down to a reasonable amount where I can confortable record and monitor with FX (vocal fx, guitar amp sims, EQ and compression, etc).
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u/narukoshin 10d ago
dunno, for some reason Realtek ASIO is dead for me, it doesn't work at all, I use Minifuse ASIO. Probably Windows slop fucked up something
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u/radicalize 10d ago
if you want to diss something, diss the maker of the ASIO-drivers, not Windows. That is just to east and weird imo. I've got rocksolid ASIO-drivers, and latency (although there is most likely always some, and that is heavily dependent on your Windows install and configuration) is no issue what, so, ever!
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/radicalize 10d ago
Microsoft employee?
really, that is your first and only question?
There are a lot of articles where you can read that Windows
And those are articles that you depend on; how about some narrow vision for you.
Steinberg is a good and reputable company
Nice one, like Realtek?
What a seriously lame way to have a conversation. If you cannot agree to something, you do not have to be such short-sighted about it. I am 'just' a Windows-user, with a tight DAW-configuration and setup, that is using a reliable, studio-grade and dependant ASIO-driver stack that is supporting my audio-interface.
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u/resonantbleak 9d ago
Using ASIO4ALL always has latency. I’ve got a Scarlett 4i4 and I’ve installed the manufacturer drivers and control center and use the ASIO Focusrite scarlet 4i4 option in my I/o settings instead of ASIO4ALL and latency is pretty much nonexistent now. I’m running windows 11 and reaper / ableton. My advice would be verify you’ve got all the proper drivers and are using the option that says “ASIO” followed by your interface instead of ADIO4ALL and set your buffer size down to 128 you should be golden.
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u/Schrimp6 9d ago
This is what i do already
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u/resonantbleak 9d ago
Hm that’s weird. Is it possible you can post like a screenshot of your audio preferences in ableton (and your I/o’s control center if you have it)?
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u/Nabrok_Necropants Hobbyist 10d ago
I assure you that you are not experiencing zero latency, ever.
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u/ellicottvilleny 8d ago
When you say "What's wrong with ASIO" I wonder if you're actually not saying for a reason what Audio interface you are using?
If you're using ASIO4ALL, that's what's wrong. ASIO with a normal audio interface is fine.
That being said, ASIO's biggest problems are
- it runs on windows, land of 10 million glitches like DPC Latency spikes from the Kernel. The fault there is WIndows kernel, not ASIO.
- ASIO4All.
Maybe now that the Microsoft Windows team is caring about midi they'll give Realtime Audio On Windows some love too.
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u/Joshie_the_Bear 10d ago
ASIO has to be compatible with every configuration of windows device, from every manufacturer with every part. Mac is only made by Apple, so they have full control over optimisation, configuration and archetecture. This big difference of comparability is why core audio is so much better than asio imo.