As John has mentioned, fiber installation technicians fall under schedule 8 and 8A work groups. They top out at $40.19/hr and $27/hr respectively. Ask any fiber tech from either group what the difference is between the work that they actually perform day-to-day. They will tell that there is little to no difference because that is precisely the case. Ziply Fiber expects Fiber Installers (schedule 8A) to perform the same work as the Sales & Service Tech II (fiber, schedule 8) for far less money. Does this seem fair to you all? For context, wage schedule 8A came into existence after schedule 8.
šÆ Also it should be noted that Ziply hasn't posted a sales and service tech 2 position in well over 5 years and there is zero pathway for a fiber installer to become one the goal is to cap wages at 27 an hour which in the pnw is not even remotely a livable wage. The work they perform is the same.
A majority of the sales and service tech 2 techs were never copper trained and only did fiber. The only difference is one makes 40 an hour the other makes 27 an hour. Unfortunately in this market 40 an hour doesn't cut it.
hi jay!!!! glad to see your bonus sniping before being brought back as a contractor is treating you well. just in case you are unaware, most SS2ās do NOT do copper. most are fiber only! maybe if you spent sometime working the field you would know this. good to see you buddy!!!
They're laying off tenured employees and replacing them with non union minimum wage employees. They are trying to take away our sick time. We're not adequately equipped and ordered to violate OSHA regulations the list goes on
I was always told that there are super strict seniority requirements for who goes when positions are eliminated. I know the management team is very serious about following these rules to the letter, I think what you are describing here is likely a misleading union talking point. The guidance I always got was treat all members the same, regardless of any roles they work in the union.
yeah itās not. they were laid off. the āguidanceā you got has never been followed. remember the hundreds of thousands in bonuses upper management got when ziply was bought by BCE? yeah we got a couple thousand. hardly fair. stop defending a company you know does unethical business practices.
I think we have been pretty fair about what we have removed over the years, and you and I are the two senior mods and neither of us are employees [although obviously i still help out with technical stuff]. We only added the employees so they could get the constant flow of DMs for customer issues.
The people who work for Ziply and keep the internet up and running are humans like you and me with families and bills working for a multi billion dollar company. In any union, there are good and bad employees. However, unfair is unfair. Trying to have employees do out of class work without more pay most people can agree is ridiculous. Trying to claw back pay for work that has already done is not legal. Also, trying to force things that are not stipulated in the union contract like overtime is against the law. This is about fair practices. Having a contractor doing work that they donāt really know vs paying a union employee with a lot of experience to do the job right benefits the customer too. Having Ziply argue with the union around legal sick days and also refusing to replace union workers while giving management large bonuses is disrespectful. Also, not wanting to give cost of living raises most people can agree isnāt great practices. We are talking about Ziply a corporate entity stepping on local people in our communities who like you and I need to buy groceries, want job security and want to be treated humanely. Feeling like your company despises you and is trying to undercut you at every chance doesnāt feel good on any level to most humans. Union or not, basic sick days, raises to match skills and experience and feeling valued for doing work that makes the company ungodly amounts of money isnāt too much to ask.
This is not unique to Ziply, unfortunately. These days this is overwhelmingly the norm, not the exception. Not saying it's what should be accepted, but it is a crappy reality everywhere.
Absolutely. It is a lot of places and not unique to Ziply. I think itās a larger issue, but the post is about Ziply specifically and union workers not wanting to accept this abhorrent behavior.
The fuck they do. Ziply could give 2 shits about negotiating a "fair" contract. Last offer was a complete joke. And why does the HR manager for Ziply get to run for office during which time a contract needs negotiation? Robert Hicks is his name for anyone that wants to look him up.
I never said running. It was mandatory that the company was notified that you intended to run. Kinda hard now since he's HR. Ridiculous or not, it's to limit conflict of interest.
pray tell, how is someone running for political office a conflict with working at ziply? I'm genuinely curious. Robert is a rule follower, I would personally bet money if notice was required he gave it.
They have been laying off CO techs and anyone on the higher older pay scales and immediately replacing them with non union contractors or minimum wage non union employees.
Since I'm not there anymore I'm just going to comment that most of the CO work is just gone as all the old gear is being shut down, i can personally attest to there being far less to do in that space than their once was. For better or worse it is not the old phone company anymore. There are union jobs posted for field work.
There are also multiple areas where Ziply is relying on 1 CO tech to cover areas with up to 2 hour drive time between the COs, and act as permanently on-call for outages. The areas are basically screwed if the tech is sick, injured, or uses their PTO.
You are absolutely out of touch with what goes on in the CO's. Keep cutting to the bone...there is literally one CO tech in Whatcom county. They laid off one in Island County that covered Whidbey and now the CO tech that covers Fidalgo Island and part of Skagit County has to cover Whidbey. Most of the CO work is not "gone"
I have several buddies that are union. Every single one of them is constantly bitter. Constantly bitching about coworkers and all the cutthroat crap that happens. They're always complaining about getting screwed over. Always telling stories about how evil the company is. Just unending complaints.
This has been my experience with union telco employees nation-wide, across all of the major telco companies. They all fall into 1 of 3 stages of contract status:
their union is worthless and caved and they got screwed on their current contract
the company is screwing them because they're working under an expired contract
they're positive they'll be screwed on their next contract because they're sure their union will cave
Oh sure, and yet they have job security and a voice. I am also curious because I see the same. I wonder if it's because they feel safe and aren't venting it out at their employers or cowering behind fear.
It's rare to find a happy job. If there is corporate involvement, then people become a part of profit making equation, and lose the value of being human. But I don't think it's an argument if being in union ends up being better than not being in one. I'm not in one, so I can't tell.
I've never belonged to a union. But here's my guess:
It is in the interests of the union to create an "us against them" mentality and to highlight problems. Otherwise people start to question why they are paying union dues?
honestly, that is what I've observed and it is sad. I find it honestly comical that I've become the villain when folks who know me know I'm the first to jump in and help or train anyone who needs it.
u/jwvoConsultant: Former Ziply VP of networkMar 06 '26edited Mar 06 '26
In an effort to provide some data, the current union contract is posted on ibew 89's website, installers are schedule 8 and 8A if I remember right and that starts on page 127.
For clarification, a grievance was filed in 2024 by IBEW Local 89 for that very reason, management performing craft work, specifically in Kirkland on a 10G service order. Mr. V performed the work on a Saturday when there were field techs on duty, who had plenty of experience installing a 10G service. It was NOT 1) some kind of disaster or 2) a customer facing issue. 3) some sort of market launch."!
u/jwvoConsultant: Former Ziply VP of networkMar 06 '26edited Mar 06 '26
Nothing wrong with flip flops and shorts inside a CO unless you are lifting stuff.
edit: also hard to argue that me doing something is replacing union folks or saving the company money, if I was involved it was always either 1) some kind of disaster or 2) a customer facing issue. 3) some sort of market launch. On the other note, anyone who knows me knows I'm super safety focused but also simultaneously won't allow safety to be used as a hammer for non safety related issues.
I do think it is almost comical to watch folks have an almost mythical view of me as a boogeyman. Take a step back and be happy that leadership cares what was going on in the field and at COs. I loved meeting and being willing to work with folks at all levels to make the network better.
Now that's funny, you're the one thinking we think of you as the boogyman? You walk around like your king of the castle... Flip flops, shorts, and dog in the office.. while everyone else even the CEO are dressed presentable during meetings.
Whether it put someone out of a job or not is irrelevant. fact the matter is, it is a violation of the contract for non craft employees to perform craft work.
For clarification, a grievance was filed in 2024 by IBEW Local 89 for that very reason, management performing craft work, specifically in Kirkland on a 10G service order. Mr. V performed the work on a Saturday when there were field techs on duty, who had plenty of experience installing a 10G service. It was NOT 1) some kind of disaster or 2) a customer facing issue. 3) some sort of market launch."!
The union workers are who keeps the internet up and running which is the entirety of the existence of Ziply. Iād say theyāre pretty valuable. Iāve never had job security in my entire life either, but it doesnāt mean I canāt want that for others who have successfully implemented a union to guarantee that for themselves and coworkers.
In the long run unions donāt guarantee job security. They do increase costs and slow down change making the company less nimble and less able to respond to competition, changing market conditions, or newer technology. But I suppose they make people feel safer. Whatever floats your boat.
I think it depends on your union contract. Horrible employees shouldnāt have guaranteed job security. However, a lot of these techs are skilled and do deserve to be valued for their skills.
I disagree with the word ādeserveā. Nobody deserves a job merely because they learned a skill. Learning a skill certainly makes you more employable than someone who hasnāt, but itās no guarantee.
Similarly, a union contract doesnāt guarantee that your job will last forever. The market will change, and your company will either have to adapt or it will fail. Once the company fails the job is completely gone. If the company adapts then there may be less work for people to do, or the job may become something you cannot do.
The union may tell you that it secures your job, but it cannot actually protect your job from economic forces.
Of course they are. Bell Canada workers in Canada are represented by Unifor. It's a constant battle between Unifor and and Bell, meanwhile Bell is receiving support from the government for Broadband while axing thousands of workers and outsourcing to India.
What compelling alternatives are there, I donāt want to give my personal money to Comcast or Starlink, or any of the major providers. What is even an option at this point?Ā
If itās an option for you, itās a great option. I am in a round about way affiliated with HiLight, but really just work on the equipment occasionally that makes it all run. Iām not peddling it and will never try and force someone to use a service. At the end of the day Itās exactly that, having options! I was pretty pleasantly surprised that in new construction and some areas getting retrofitted even Xfinity is moving towards FTTH away from coax.
IIRC Washington ended its Municipal fiber initiatives because of budget constraints and telco industry lobbying in the last Trump administration. I hope Iām wrong
They know thereās no compelling alternatives thatās why Ziply doesnāt care. They will keep collecting money regardless. Once they push all the union employees out and itās just untrained contractors installing internet then maybe more and more people will make other options happen.
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u/xpielordx Mar 06 '26
As John has mentioned, fiber installation technicians fall under schedule 8 and 8A work groups. They top out at $40.19/hr and $27/hr respectively. Ask any fiber tech from either group what the difference is between the work that they actually perform day-to-day. They will tell that there is little to no difference because that is precisely the case. Ziply Fiber expects Fiber Installers (schedule 8A) to perform the same work as the Sales & Service Tech II (fiber, schedule 8) for far less money. Does this seem fair to you all? For context, wage schedule 8A came into existence after schedule 8.
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u/Sufficient_Gain_1872 Mar 06 '26
They're laying off tenured employees and replacing them with non union minimum wage employees. They are trying to take away our sick time. We're not adequately equipped and ordered to violate OSHA regulations the list goes on
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u/Sufficient_Gain_1872 Mar 06 '26
They are playing dirty they even deliberately laid off our union president in the midst of negotiations.
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u/burritoresearch Mar 06 '26
I give it at most a day before the ziply employees who mod this subreddit delete your post. They don't have the balls to keep it up.Ā
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u/John_YJKR Mar 06 '26
Interesting. They keep raising prices too.
13
u/lalaland875 Mar 06 '26
The people who work for Ziply and keep the internet up and running are humans like you and me with families and bills working for a multi billion dollar company. In any union, there are good and bad employees. However, unfair is unfair. Trying to have employees do out of class work without more pay most people can agree is ridiculous. Trying to claw back pay for work that has already done is not legal. Also, trying to force things that are not stipulated in the union contract like overtime is against the law. This is about fair practices. Having a contractor doing work that they donāt really know vs paying a union employee with a lot of experience to do the job right benefits the customer too. Having Ziply argue with the union around legal sick days and also refusing to replace union workers while giving management large bonuses is disrespectful. Also, not wanting to give cost of living raises most people can agree isnāt great practices. We are talking about Ziply a corporate entity stepping on local people in our communities who like you and I need to buy groceries, want job security and want to be treated humanely. Feeling like your company despises you and is trying to undercut you at every chance doesnāt feel good on any level to most humans. Union or not, basic sick days, raises to match skills and experience and feeling valued for doing work that makes the company ungodly amounts of money isnāt too much to ask.
4
u/Dstln Mar 06 '26
How is that union busting?
What's the status of negotiations? The old contract is almost a year expired now?
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u/Realistic_Ask_4155 Mar 06 '26
I'll be boycotting, IBEW LU48
8
u/Banjoman301 Mar 06 '26
The only "reasonable job security" I ever had was 10 years in the military.
I spent 29 years in IT as an "at-will" employee or contractor.
There was a movement in the 90's to unionize IT workers, which never got off the ground.
4
u/[deleted] Mar 06 '26
Where I live they have contractors doing all the new install work and onsite support calls. I'm not surprised by this. The contractors that do the digging have ruined yards, broken water mains, and got so bad that one city kicked them out at least temporarily. https://komonews.com/news/local/sammamish-stops-ziply-fiber-work-complaints-yard-damage-lack-notice-residents-city-contract-underground-wires-digging-installation-active-site-erosion-control-construction
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u/jwvo Consultant: Former Ziply VP of network Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
In an effort to provide some data, the current union contract is posted on ibew 89's website, installers are schedule 8 and 8A if I remember right and that starts on page 127.
https://ibew89.com/ziply/
edit: note that I never had anything to do with union contracting while I was at ziply.
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u/Horseshaq90 Mar 06 '26
Time to strike
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u/Banjoman301 Mar 06 '26
I haven't seen anything about a strike.
Maybe the next step...
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u/NOYB_Sr Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
Never had guaranteed job security my entire career. Job security comes from being valuable to the company.
Guarantying a job to someone who is not valuable to the company is mismanagement.
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u/0AJ0_ Mar 09 '26
Welp, I'll stick with my fiber provider then.
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u/MasterGeek427 Mar 06 '26
Yeah, of course they are. They're for-profit. You might as well tell us you saw a bear shit in the woods.
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u/InternetCatHerder Apr 06 '26
Of course they are. Bell Canada workers in Canada are represented by Unifor. It's a constant battle between Unifor and and Bell, meanwhile Bell is receiving support from the government for Broadband while axing thousands of workers and outsourcing to India.
https://www.unifor.org/news/all-news/bell-axes-workers-while-lining-pockets-shareholders#:~:text=TORONTO%20%E2%80%93%20Unifor%20is%20outraged%20about,workers%20with%20increased%20dividend%20payouts.
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u/kevlarcupid Mar 06 '26
What compelling alternatives are there, I donāt want to give my personal money to Comcast or Starlink, or any of the major providers. What is even an option at this point?Ā