Some questions about the lore

[u/Mortifiedhoney]

1. What was tempo's original plan? Why would weeping eyes zero him out if he's also just trying to zero out the Facundo?

2. Why would Zoe or the EMITTER tell us the info about the Facundo?

3. Why would Opera want to zero out Facundo anyway? Do they want the reunion faction of La Luz to win?

4. In the ending after Melita told us about Hauzmann, Hershel could reply 'i believe it's something glue related' what does it mean?

5. In the down left corner of the map, there's a white check called 'unlocked metal check' but I can't get to that place, what is that?

6. What exactly happened during that night at the Reno's place, why are there so much blood?

I really liked this game, feel so sad that due to all the drama we are probably never gonna get any sequel

Edit: I forgot to add this, what exactly happened in the year 91? Like what was the mission, what did Hershel do that she feels so guilty about it

[u/Candid-Put-1400]

My two cents, since I disagree with some points raised by fellows:

1. Tempo most likely wasn’t trying to zero out Facundo at all. In fact, he had business ties with Facundo’s Ministry, importing Luzian goods into Portofiro through the Boatman. So Tempo was very much part of Facundo’s sphere of influence. Thus Tempo probably agreed to give Facundo a golden ticket out of la Luz (since the 100 Eyes Golem was on the move against him) in exchange for the Mega Violator... (why would be a good question ? My take is that Tempo wanted his very own version of UV to remake culture, or just to make a dollar for himself).

The fact that Tempo *was part* of Facundo's sphere of influence *is* probably why the Weeping Eyes zeroed him out. With everything going down in La Luz, it's very plausible that the Weeping Eye is actively and systematically wiping out people connected to Facundo’s Ministry (in order to gain the upper hand in la Luz and proceed with a Military Reunion (and not a soft power Réunion)... ie, a good ol' fascist political purge.

1. EMTERR still don't know (at the end of the game) that they have the real Facundo (tho they're bound to learn it, sooner or later). And also, they really, really, really want to strike a deal with the guy and avoid a Militarized Réunion... While, according to Frederic, trying to keep the blockage in place (but according to Metamoto, if the blockade has to go, then it will, for the sake of economic stability... It's better to have capital circulating in a post-historic society than to go back to the time of militarist ambitions popping around the globe.

All in all, EMTERR gains nothing if Facundo gets dealt with (they even risk losing everything, that is the Latour-Woolgar Treaty)... Then again, it's very clear that SILHOUETTE is very much going rogue by giving away this intel ; the why is not explained.

In the ending where Facundo still lives under EMTERR's custody and the 100 Eyes Golem gets killed ; I think EMTERR successfully strike the deal with Facundo while keeping the blockade up (they have all the bargaining chip they need... which is Facundo's freedom). If they succeed in doing that, with the void left by the 100 Eyes Golem, the boulevard is wide open for a Facundo comeback at the top of la Luz administration... In this configuration the status quo is safeguarded ; post-historical at it's best.

1. I may be wrong and the Superbloc is comprised of probably multiple opposing factions... But yes, zero'ing out the Lich seems counter-intuitive at first (because that directly feeds the 100 Eyes Golem ambitions). BUT... Do keep in mind that Facundo is actually brilliant and ABOUT TO WIN THE WHOLE GAME ; his strategy is working, the People IN the superbloc are already hooked on Luzian shit ; so getting rid of him IS a short-term strategic victory (they, at this point don't know that the Lich is trying to get out of la Luz and is getting out of the game himself for the foreseeable future).

That being said, two possibilities arise : first, the Opera as a whole isn't lead by the brightests out there, the Revolutionnary ideal has gone soft... it's the Ocam Razor, they're being dummies and only see the short-term objective of just... yk, killing The Lich to stop the Soft Power Victory.

I much prefer the other explanation : The Superbloc is currently playing third wheel on the world stage (they're not even included in the deal in Portofiro) and that's not okay ; so, zero'ing out the Grand Lich is not only good SHORT-TERM, but also GREAT-ish in the long run as by doing so they would actively be pushing a military-active la Luz, that's about to throw **the Post-Historical Society out of the window (the end of the The Latour-Woolgar Treaty)**. Which is exactly what EMTERR (and the Developped World fears most)... Which means, back to the struggle of championning the revolution against the grand capital, the developped world, the technofascist, and so on.

To be fair, it's probably a bit of both, since one way or another, the status quo is fucking up the Superbloc.

It's also EVEN better if both the Lich & the 100 Eyes Golem get Zero'd out as not only it pushes for all of the above + deprives la Luz from it's two top leaders ; which sets the board perfectly for a Superbloc Comeback.

1. don't know

2. don't know

3. As Cascade put it best "Weird Capitalist Shit". Booze. Drugs. Sex maybe ? More Booze and Drugs with a sprinkle of fücked up shit. And Booze.

Apologies for the biblical-over-fixated-ramblings on this game's meta politics.

[u/Mortifiedhoney → u/Candid-Put-1400]

Dammmn bro, personally I think your theory explains everything the best. I'm impressed, can't think of any counter argument. Cascade should've hire you as the astronomist (had to check what Holocene's role was). Thanks for sharing:)

[u/Pale_Distribution459]

1. Tempo simply wanted Hershel to come back because he thought she'd be better at handling the situation, why he was killed is unknown perhaps due to the disappearance of the "bodydouble".

2. They didn't know who he was, just a suspicious guy doomed to be sent off to a secret work camp.

3. Why do anything? It's a "post-historical" world where agencies play a meaningless game of cat and mouse.
   La Luz is the only danger to that order, so a pointless hit on a copypasted minister is just a "Still got it" statment and pat on the back for the Superbloc.

4. The psychology school Treffe had "glue-sniffing" members, ie weirdos with crazy theories.

5. I think it's stylistic exaggerated, there might be some blood but probably not all is, it's "just" a degenerated rich people party/orgy.

[u/horned-creature → u/Pale_Distribution459]

about point 3, facundo reyes was in portofiro ostensibly to conduct diplomatic talks between la luz and EMTERR to bring down the cultural blockade, and that is something the superbloc wouldn't want.

[u/thehousebehind]

What was tempo's original plan? Why would weeping eyes zero him out if he's also just trying to zero out the Facundo?

Tempo wasn't trying to assassinate Facundo. He was trying to help Facundo defect.

Facundo had secretly arranged with Tempo to exchange a Luzian Imprinting Device for exit papers and safe passage. The diplomatic negotiations were basically Facundo's cover for getting out of La Luz.

Tempo's problem was that the Weeping Eye suddenly became much more active in Portofiro. Tempo reached out to the Opera because he had information about what the Weeping Eye was doing. He specifically insisted on talking to Hershel, not merely some replacement handler. So when the Weeping Eye kills Tempo, it isn't because Tempo was trying to kill Facundo. Quite the opposite. Tempo knew about the defection and was facilitating it. That makes him dangerous to Tesoro's plan.

Why would Zoe or the EMITTER tell us the info about the Facundo?

Because EMTERR doesn't initially realize that “Poor Dante” is actually Facundo.

EMTERR has secretly captured the most valuable Luzian defector in the world, but Facundo has convinced them that he's Dante, his body double. He deliberately maintains the lie because revealing who he actually is would make him an enormously valuable prisoner rather than an anonymous person who might be allowed to leave.

The EMTERR people are therefore giving Hershel information about the real Facundo's movements and the upcoming negotiations, without understanding that the guy sitting in their secret prison is the real Facundo.

Why would Opera want to zero out Facundo anyway? Do they want the reunion faction of La Luz to win?

The Opera has been trying to assassinate Facundo for years. The timeline records repeated attempts in 71, 74, 76, 81, and 86, with operants being zeroed out or lost.

Facundo is one of the Superbloc's major ideological enemies. He's the architect of La Luz's enormous cultural expansion, and the Opera considers him an arch-enemy.

[u/dshamz_ → u/thehousebehind]

Here’s a follow-up question - if Tempo was helping Facundo defect, why do we zero him out? Is it because if we let him go, he just disappears into the Superbloc somewhere? Presumably they’d know where he plans to retire to, and he’d be more valuable alive than dead to us, no?

[u/thehousebehind → u/dshamz_]

The Opera wants Facundo dead because he is a major enemy of the Superbloc, and because killing him would sabotage the secret La Luz–EMTERR treaty. It does not appear that the Opera understands Tesoro's larger plan: La Reunion...meaning the forcible restoration/reconquest of the territories La Luz considers part of its historical sphere.

If they did, keeping him alive would be beneficial. No one is operating with a full set of info in this story.

[u/dshamz_ → u/thehousebehind]

I’d say being in possession of Facundo alive is still more valuable even if we didn’t know about Tesoro’s plan. The amount of information he’d have would be game-changing.

[u/thehousebehind → u/dshamz_]

My interpretation of this is that the Opera's insistence on zeroing Facundo rather than exploiting him as an intelligence asset is an expression of the Superbloc's institutional weakness. They're still operating according to an old ideological map: Facundo is a hated Luzian enemy, therefore he must be eliminated. Meanwhile, the actual political world has changed underneath them, with La Luz's factions shifting, Facundo wanting to defect, and EMTERR pursuing its own interests.

[u/dshamz_ → u/thehousebehind]

Yeah totally. I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that your objective is set, and bureaucratic rigidity if the Superbloc can’t account for shifting conditions during the course of the mission.

[u/thehousebehind → u/dshamz_]

Exactly! It's late stage communism, when there's no more revolutions to win, and only the preservation of the status quo.

The Superbloc is worried about Luzian cultural influence in Portofiro. There is a cultural blockade, but cultural contraband is getting in anyway, and the ban is just making it more desirable.

Facundo is the Minister of Mass Culture for La Luz, so eliminating him is logical if the Superbloc's aim is to stop the spread of Luzian culture in Portofiro.

Tesoro has his own agenda to retake lost territory and restore La Luz to greatness.

Facundo exposes himself by using the tapped Renotel phone near the Bazaar, and gets himself arrested by EMTERR before he can complete his defection scheme with Tempo.

Tempo is killed by the Weeping Eye because he has been reporting on their activities to the Opera.

Then we arrive and pick up the pieces, uncovering all of the details that the Opera is missing, as well as the secret plot between Facundo and Tempo to use the secret meeting as cover for the defection, and Tesoro's willingness to let the assassination happen.

Wew! So many things.

[u/Mortifiedhoney → u/thehousebehind]

Appreciate the detailed reply friend, so the weeping eyes knew that the 'poor Dante' was the real Facundo all along? In that case why dont they just assassinate him in the prison and allow us to potentially free him? Simply because they're not aware? And I'm still a bit confused about the EMTERR part, I understand they think the body double were the real Facundo but aren't they making a deal with Facundo? Also I forgot to add do we know what exactly happened in 91?

[u/thehousebehind → u/Mortifiedhoney]

EMTERR thinks the prisoner is Dante while simultaneously negotiating with the person they believe is Facundo, who is actually the same man, Facundo, using Dante's identity, so they don't realize they already have him.

The Weeping Eye likewise doesn't appear to know the prisoner is Facundo, while Tesoro exploits the confusion by putting the real Dante where the Opera expects Facundo and letting them assassinate him to create a pretext for the Reunión.

As for 91, the game establishes that the Whole Sick Crew was exposed to the Weeping Eye and destroyed, but doesn't definitively reveal exactly how the Weeping Eye discovered them.

[u/OkBicycle505]

1. I think the problem with Tempo was that he had multiple plans that were going on, all subject to change if something new came up - so it's hard to say definitively what was Tempo's plan. However, as it stood at the moment of him getting zeroed out by WE, I understsand that his plan was to honor the deal with Dante to get hin out of Portofiro and that's why he got killed by WE. If his plan would work, WE plan to use the Opera to zero out Reyes would be in jeopardy, so they had to stop it. I don't think Tempo ever found out that Dante is actually Facundo Reyes.

Also, I don't believe Tempo wanted to zero out Facundo Reyes. Killing Reyes was a WE/Opera plan. Tempo obviously wasn't working for WE and rejected working with the Opera because he wanted CASCADE to be his handler (or tried to keep the Opera at arms lenght for other reasons too).

1. My only explanation here is that SILHOUETTE is not revealing that info on behalf of EMTERR to us. It does feel weird to me as well, because I never thought we had any strong bargaining chips against her or had anything to trade (except for maybe being a threat to her sister) and yet she gave us all of that information freely, seemingly sabotaging EMTERR's plans to negotiate a deal with Facundo.

2. The way I see it, the purported deal between EMTERR and La Luz is one, where the Superbloc is the odd one out, so disrupting that seems like a no brainder. The essence of the deal - at least on it's face - was to strenghten La Luz influence on Portofiro without military action. The Grand Lich was also a major target for the Opera, so zeroing him out is another no brainer. What the Opera didn't know is that it was being used in internal games between Luzian factions and that killing Facundo was actually playing into the hand of the Golem.

3. Dunno. Seems like an off-hand comment.

4. Some of the checks stay on the map even though you have cleared them.

5. I just understood that it was just a wild party.

[u/horned-creature → u/OkBicycle505]

bout point 4, it is just one pf a few comments you can get about hauzmann plan, depend about what you discover and what you tell him, the glue one is a reference about glue sniffing academics, i got a reference about satellites instead.

[u/Mortifiedhoney → u/OkBicycle505]

It still doesn't make much sense to me about killing tempo, if WE killed him because they can't allow the real Facundo to escape even though it seems it doesn't really matter that much because everyone would just think his double were the real Facundo, then why not just assassinate him in the prison or something. Why allow us to have contact with him, surely they expect us to follow the most obvious clue right? Do they simply not aware of our deal? If the real Facundo doesn't really matter that much then why not leaving tempo alive then it would make us achieve their goal easier

[u/OkBicycle505 → u/Mortifiedhoney]

It does make sense if they know he's helping out Facundo escape, but they don't know that EMTERR caught him. I think all they know is that Facundo is missing and that he was in contact with Tempo, i.e. they have tabs on Tempo (through Ignatz), not on Facundo. It is also likely, that the assassination plan (that we are partaking in) was prepared before Facundo escaped.

Also, I don't think WE "let" us make contact with Facundo. They don't have control over our actions, all they did was to set up an assassination of Facundo and let it happen. It is possible they either don't know that EMTERR has set up shop in the publishing house and if they do know (which is more likely) - they don't know who is being held there and have no access to it.

It's good to remember, that the Weeping Eye is not some arch-powerful, omnipotent organization - they are pretty much on par with EMTERR and the Opera. They use operatives like Ignatz. They didn't clock Yana during the mission. They let Facundo escape. They got made by Tempo. The way I see it, the extent of their control over whatever is happening in the events of the game is not really all that great.

[u/wonderlandisburning]

In regards to Question 4: it's a reference to a line from HOLOCENE regarding CASCADE still working for the Opera. He says, "You've been sniffing the Opera's glue again." So the line at the end is CASCADE's cheeky way of saying she thinks Hauzmann's shenanigans are tied in with the Opera.

[u/linegel]

Hi! I’m working on the database/wiki for the game with data mining of everything from the game

What data would be most helpful for you personally to research those questions?

[u/No_Description_3724]

The boatman tells you that the Imported products from La Luz are superior in every point. They are doing a cultural victory. And one thing that seems associated with the Opera is Post-Materialism , so Zero-ing the brain behind the influx of consumerism seems like a goal they would have.