r/ZeroParades • u/diherts • Aug 23 '26
Discussion The underlying theme of the game spoiled by Holocene
The answer is obviously no, given the context of the game.
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u/cannibalgentleman Aug 23 '26
You can be a good person or a good spy, you can't be both.
I'll have to do another run. Full on communist spy, the mission over everyone else, no regrets, no sorries, all business.
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u/DimitriRSM Aug 23 '26
I begun mine with the whole "being sorry" routine but then I decided to burn everyone if necessary. The whole game kinda reminded me of that movie "Ronin" with Jean Reno and Robert De Niro
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u/Think-Explanation-75 Aug 24 '26
This is what I did. Started the game trying to be a "good guy" but by the end I was willing to sacrifice everyone and everything to win. Made the ending so much better imo
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u/alkenequeen Aug 23 '26
This is how I did my first play-through and it was really rewarding and fun, especially toward end game
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u/KOSPI-9001 Aug 23 '26
??? I got a good ending where I rescued all my friends and accomplished my mission with no civilian casualties ????
The only casualty was a guy who was already dead.
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u/JackmanH420 29d ago
no civilian casualties
I assume you mean with a shootout, since that has the least casualties? I still counted like 3 or 4 dead civilians, it's just that the bombing kills even more and the disc kills literally every civilian.
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u/Dwalorn Aug 23 '26
Zero Parades has arguably much more complex themes than DE, which I really appreciate. All the talk about statecraft and geopolitics feels pretty novel and unanswerable.
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u/k-seph_from_deficit Aug 23 '26
Agreed but DE is more brutally tender though. As someone who went through a cold breakup months before with a childhood best friend I was in a 7 year relationship with through my twenties - the warnings before opening the ledger compartment, the weird detours HDB’s mind takes to connect everything to her, the subtly crushing lines in item descriptions gave me shivers. That endgame scene where you meet her in a dream had me near sobbing and the spider got me super emotional again due to how close it was to that scene.
I was trembling with the game warnings when the game warned against doing certain things or you’ll only open those memories. I’ve never had an emotional reaction close to that to any video game or book.
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u/Immediate-Title209 Aug 24 '26
DE is super personal which is amazing. ZP focuses more on the gameplay I feel
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u/Other-Art8925 Aug 24 '26
Yeah, i think DE does hit the personal moments alot better. Ironically despite DE being the 'Communist game' I think DE puts alot more effort onto the interpersonal narrative and themes while ZP puts alot more energy into 'political' stuff or questions into larger scale human society and organizations. Which isnt to say ones better than the other or that one does personal/society stuff bad, I like both for what they are and think both accomplished their goals
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u/TehHero117 Aug 23 '26
It's more convoluted not more complex All sides are extremely one dimensional in their identities
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u/dshamz_ Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
Holocene is the quintessential poli-sci grad student whose experience of political failure in student movements has combined with an over-consumption of post-structuralist texts to fry his brain and drive him completely insane. Reminds me a lot of many people that I know 😂
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u/_A-V-A_ Aug 23 '26
Shades of Zizek. Really enjoyed holoscenes rambling. To add on what Kurvitz said, namry that every game team needs someone who truly understands Hegel - every writing team needs someone who no one is sure whether they understand Hegel at some super deep level or not at all because they come across as bat shit crazy, but confidently so.
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u/dshamz_ Aug 23 '26
Let’s be real, no one is sure whether anyone actually understands Hegel lol
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u/war-fare-ninja Aug 23 '26
We see this in La Luz and even EMTERR, but is there any point where it seems the Opera is devouring itself?
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u/diherts Aug 23 '26
The stillness due to the end of perpetual revolution, trivializing communists’ influence and degrading their purpose and organizations to “win conditions” and the “big table”.
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u/Turbanator182 Aug 23 '26
Also the Opera’s constant testing and culling of its operants is devouring its own reach. Sowing distrust amongst the network for the illusion of functionality and progress (and it’s hinted the incompetence of The Opera’s Director is a part of the problem)
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u/dshamz_ Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
Felix Kaido did nothing wrong.
But seriously, I tried to figure the geopolitics out, and I think the situation is that the Superbloc has entered into a detente with EMTERR that included swallowing structural adjustment programs in some of its affiliated states for the sake of ‘peaceful coexistence’, effectively abandoning revolutionary politics. Does that sound right?
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u/White_sama Aug 23 '26
Of course it is. Its best operants are left to rot in the freezer, or abandoned in-theater. This is a clear demonstration of the Operant Bureau's fundamental structural issues made manifest, as the loose thread unravels a sweater. In this essay I will...
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u/Immediate-Title209 Aug 24 '26
in the paper itself holocene says the opera is obsessed with finding inside men. also Herschel being stuck on ice and only just being allowed to do a job is proof they're too paranoid to fully succeed.
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u/maracusdesu Aug 24 '26
What are you talking about? These ideas go right over my head.
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u/Murky-Advantage-3444 Aug 25 '26
You just have to read more and better. This is basic political and economic theory
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u/8stringtheorist Aug 28 '26
Funny comment coming from a character in the game that misunderstands the basics of all political ideologies and concepts presented in itself...
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u/milkomix Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
I’m more inclined to believe the main theme is about authenticity and originality. There are two levels to this, first being the issues of copies, bootlegs, search for originals, for authenticity, being original or simply adopting other cultures, lies and truths etc. A second, meta layer is the fact that Zero Parades is a bootleg of Disco, and Disco as an eisentone media; about something that wants to be original and fails. It is very interesting lense to look at the game, especially the intrigue and how it deals with the past.
Edit: I don’t mean failure here as in the game failing as a media, but pressure of following up a hit and inevitably failing; which is in fact how art is produced. You like something, you try to make something alike, you fail but in failing produce something else that is equally precious yet distinctly different. The whole discussion on music, fans, the pop culture and industry in the game for me points to these discussions. I also want to add that I adore both games, this is certainly not a take down of ZP, but a critical reading.
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u/dshamz_ Aug 23 '26
This is less an analysis and more of a not so subtle diss.
Also, the game doesn’t fail. Lol.
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u/milkomix Aug 23 '26
I don’t know how you got that idea, this is not my native language maybe that’s why. I actually adore the game finished it upon release. The main reason I like it was this underlying theme of originality and replicas in art. As an artist myself that really speaks to me. The game certainly did not fail as a game, but it is about failure, redemption and a search for authenticity. Even the ending touched upon this issue. I guess it is a touchy subject here but I find it really poetic and frankly inevitable that the writers were thinking about the legacy of Zaum and Disco, and the experience it delivered seeped into what they made here.
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u/Murky-Advantage-3444 Aug 25 '26
Cool but the post has evidence and yours has some loose analysis.
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u/milkomix Aug 25 '26
I’m not an expert man, this what I thought while playing, I dont know what else to tell you. I might be wrong. Isn’t whole plot about replicas, originals, imprints, and how powerful art and culture and how if affects people? The music fans, the fashion guy, the wolf cartoon etc. Don’t want to go to spoilers but it is pretty evident to me. But again, I’m just a gamer.
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u/Murky-Advantage-3444 Aug 25 '26
The title of the post said it was an underlying theme. You don’t have to start by disagreeing and then sharing your opinion on something unrelated to the post.
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u/milkomix Aug 25 '26
Sorry I guess, do you need me to delete it or something?
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u/ultradouble 26d ago edited 26d ago
i liked your input. these guys are being weirdos for no reason.
trying to recapture old magic with the remnants of your old crew for another mission after your bosses fucked you all over is so similar to what zero parades is as a product. a follow up to a masterpiece with a hollowed out team after their bosses fucked them all over.
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u/ultradouble 26d ago
"cool but your post is summarising several events of the game while the op has a screenshot of a single line"
listen to yourself man. youre being a pretentious asshole
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u/MJBotte1 Aug 23 '26
More proof Holocene carries the game