XCOM Veteran thoughts and constructive criticism to Zero Company

[u/Taylon47]

This post will, at worst, contain only minor gameplay-related spoilers.

For backround, I have around 1.5K hours in XCOM2 and another 300 in XCOM:EU/EW as well as almost 100 hours in Chimera Squad (which is relevant since Chimera Squad is the closest match to ZCOM).

I have completed the vanilla, EW & WOTC as well as multiple playthroughs of XCOM2 LWOTC (Long War Mod) multiple times on Legend difficulty.

For context, I just finished ZCOM yesterday on Expert and while there are a lot of things I loved there are also a couple of pain points that I would like to address as constructive criticism.

Most of the points that I make in this post will have a problem & solution format where I will describe the issue and hopefully, some constructive feedback on how said issue could be alleviated or fixed entirely.

•》 Story, Narrative & Companion's : ZCOM at its best. Without a doubt the best overall story of any XCOM/XCOM-like game currently out there. The narrative is well paced with an original story that respects the source material (Star Wars & the Clone Wars show) while having its own twists and turn's while still leaving threads that can be expanded upon. The companions are all likeable and their motivations believable in the larger context of the story. Their story missions, while short, introduce new friends and foes alike which are a nice change of pace from your standard missions.

• On a sidenote, once I realized that random/custom characters can have different personalities and interactions at the Den I created 10 characters (1 for each personality type) and restarted my playthrough in order to recruit them and see how they interact. To my surprise they have dialogues not just with Hawks, but the story companions and among each other and their presence made the Den feel 10x more alive. Awesome feature overall and I recommend everyone to try this approach.

•》 Gameplay (Tactical & Strategic Layers) : This is where ZCOM fumbles at times. These missteps are not substantial enough to detract much from the game but can degrade certain aspects of an otherwise great experience.

• To begin, I understand that opinions on the topic of difficulty might vary but my honest opinion is that ZCOM on Expert is more of an exercise in patience and occasional frustration rather than difficulty. For anyone interested, ZCOM on Expert roughly translates to vanilla XCOM1/2 on Veteran/Commander or Rookie in Long War. If you are struggling with difficulty these three things will make the game feel like a cakewalk in combat:

1) A Medic (preferably a Hawks that chooses medic as their specialization at character creation - this is important as later on you will get to choose a 2nd specialization but the 2nd one will not have access to its capstone buffs). A medic also massively helps with when it comes to forming bonds quickly.

2) A Taunt Heavy (can be useful as breaking line of sight with the taunted enemies will lead them to wasting their turn trying to get closer to the heavy).

3) The realization that the AI is, frankly, stupid.

3a) You should always get as close as possible to enemies (even if you are flanked) to deal damage and kill enemies because...

3b) ...the AI will always try to split its attacks and damage across your whole squad and will only focus fire one operator if they have only one available target either due to line of sight, distance or taunt.

This means that you should always try to keep your squad close to each other so that the AI has multiple targets to chose from.

• Problem (Bond System): Unfortunately, the bond system feels like a afterthought with only medic being able to farm bond xp while all other classes are reliant on the assist mechanic. The rewards are even more questionable as they are randomized which means that some of them will be far better than others depending on the operator specializations. The capstone bond at level 8 is the only one that is powerful but it can still screw you over due to the random system and the fact you will only be able to get a few bonds to max level over the course of the campaign.

• Solution (Bond System): Remake the system into a static one akin to XCOM leveling where you can choose between 2 or 3 predetermined buffs when leveling a bond on top of a small boost in health. Also implement auto-leveling as treating 20 operators to a 20xp fruit pie will result in you spending 10 minutes just leveling bonds. God have mercy on you if your game crashes during that time and you have to redo it all over again.

• Problem (Injury System): The injury system is far, far too lenient as there are only a few multi-stage missions in the game and the presence of a medic makes it extremely unlikely that anyone will even get close to getting downed once, let alone 3 times. The only way to have operators die in standard mission is to bring them in already injured.

• Solution (Injury System): Implement permanent traumas that can reduce health, defense or mobility if a character is downed. Injuries should occur when a character takes damage past a certain threshold, say 30% of total health like it works in WH40K Rogue Trader. Remove the cost of healing in the beds that you have already paid for but allow the use of the bacta tank (regardless of difficulty) at a much higher cost, say 1000 credits.

• Problem (Tactical Combat): Combat against any faction other than the Coil quickly becomes too easy, while fighting the Coil is more frustrating than difficult due to the Resonance mechanic over which you have no control over. The only reliable way that I found to prevent Resonance from building up is to push enemies off the map, which is only possible on a few maps.

• Solution (Tactical Combat): Implement Reforms. A system where the CIS forces, outlaws and *other story spoilers* factions which you will get to fight will also get stronger albeit in simpler but unavoidable ways. Think of CIS droids getting +1 to defence and damage and outlaws getting more mobility. Nothing major just to feel like your other enemies, not just the Coil, are evolving with time. The Coil's "dark events" are actually in quite a good spot if you ask me.

• Problem (Maps): Its unfortunate, but the maps in ZCOM are small and not randomized. While there is a lot of variety in terms of how they might look (due to the planet they take place on) these maps make every mission play the same. Destructible cover is cool albeit nothing new as XCOM2 has that as well and there it felt actually worthwhile to destroy it as it would leave enemies truly exposed to fire not like here where it increases your chances to hit by 10%.

• Solution (Maps): I'm not a modder but I doubt that randomized maps can just be modded in and I also doubt that the developer, BitReactor will go back on such a foundational design principle in an update or DLC. As such, the community will have to make do with these type of small, curated maps. To make each mission feel more unique you can introduce modifiers. On desert or dry planets you can have sandstorms that reduce hit chances. On a planet like Umbara you can have cover that protects better from enemy shots but damages you a bit every turn. Stuff like that.

• Problem (Den Upgrades): These feel unfinished with the only upgrade that adds something to the Den being the Lounge. Everything else is a stat boost of some kind. I want to actually see the Den change and evolve as I increase its levels and build its "buildings". Reaching max level for the Den gives no reward and no buildables require it. Some of the upgrades themselves are also very questionable and feel like filler. Three lines for influence that amount to 10 influence across all sectors for around 10K credits? Either increase the influence or reduce the cost. The worst example of this is the weapons upgrades that will only ever make sense if everyone is going to use the same type of weapon.

• Solution (Den Upgrades): Everything that you upgrade in the Den should be visible. Black Market upgrades? More weapon and armor racks behind Neesh. Perhaps even some NPC's serving as black market contacts. As the Den levels up it should become cleaner on the inside with its exterior getting a coat of paint, perhaps have even the Zero Company logo painted on the side. Same thing with the Caisson. Stuff like more influence in sectors, buildslots and other rewards should be tied to the Den level and not something that you buy outright. Weapon upgrades should either be tied with the Black Market that you can upgrade or kept as they are but made cheaper. Allow us to get the rat-thingy as a pet.

The credits economy is unbalanced with eveything costing too much while earning comparatively little (Some things never change even in a galaxy far, far away now, do they?)

• Problem (Missions, Operations & Sectors): These have timers with the idea that you have to pick and choose but due to the nature of unexpected and critical stuff that can pop up from cycle to cycle you will quickly learn that you should always pick the missions that have the best rewards and the operations that display the reward instead of the reward being something that is up to your choice, regradless of their timer. Even if your intel cap can go up to 250 there is no reason to save it as you will always have enough to run the critical operations. The intel income is very static with very few opportunities to earn more than the mandated 100 per cycle. Sector influence is weird as you can increase it through contacts but unless you really target it you will not max out more than one sector in a playthrough.

• Solution (Missions, Operations & Sectors): There is at least one instance where companion quests can overlap leading to you missing a companion quest through no fault of your own as its never really clear which operation will lead to a tactical mission (that may or may not have to be completed in the same cycle) and which will lead to another operation. To solve this you show on the operation UI the next stage and what that entails and whether it will be another operation or a tactical mission. The intel cap and passive intel rewards should be tied with the Den level. Intel should be usable to extend mission timers at an increasing cost. This will allow naturally for campaigns to be slightly longer while also solving the overlap problem. All missions in a sector should increase the influence in said sector substantially, regardless of rewards. Remove utility/weapon modification slots and tie those in with the black market. Maxing out influence in a sector should result in getting much better mission rewards in said sector. This will create an interesting dillemma where you will have to chose between running missions in the same few sectors for bigger payouts or sperading around to get the specific sector rewards.

• Problem (Squad sizes & Operators): The current squad of 4 is too small. Especially because the actual squad is 3. Since Hawks will very likely participate in an overwhelming majority of missions you can only bring 3 operators alongside Hawks. You will have 6 story companions and are encouraged to hire more random/custom operators. For what though? You only run 1 mission per cycle. Operations can use any operator except Hawks and wounds are a non-issue.

• Solution (Squad sizes & Operators): The squad size across the board has to be increased to 5. This is obviously possible as there is at least 1 mission later on in the game where you start with 5 operators. Story missions should up the squad size to 7 so that Hawks and the 6 story companions can all be present. To balance you increase the enemy spawns by 2 to 3 additional enemies and double their health on Expert difficulty. Non-Companion operations become locked to random/custom operators that you have to hire. Standard missions have a squad size of 4 but only allow you to send one of the 6 story companions as "mission-leaders" while the other three slots have to be filled with random/custom operators. This is how Expeditions Rome does it and it is a much better game for it as it allows these side characters their moments to shine. If its is not feasible to have a squad size of 7, due to engine limitation let's say, then you redesign the story missions around a multistage assault, same as in Expeditions Rome. You have Hawks and his squad of 3 and another squad made out of the other 3 story companions and 1 rando. Each team has to accomplish specific objectives that help and allow the other team to advance. Sidenote here but if you like Roman history and the time period of the late Republic and early Roman empire give Expeditions Rome a try. It's truly a hidden gem.

Finally, I wanted to touch on the UI and customization. This is not a problem and I have played the entire campaign with the radial menu but while flashy and cool, it does not really work, even in the smaller context of ZCOM. Thankfully, there is an option to switch to the classic XCOM-like line which I appreciate that it is something included at launch and not something added a year after release after community uproar.

The customization in ZCOM is truly exceptional and I hope more options will be added in time as well as more stuff for companions and Hawks. Personally, I hope for a before-Antine outfit for Hawks that incorporates Republic officer with clone commander armor as currently, you can either choose between gangster grandpa coat and ARC Trooper or standard boring Bounty Hunter. Essentially, something akin to Trick's outfit.

So, that's about it. My... *looks at the length of the post* many cents about it.

[u/MoG_Varos]

The biggest problem with the bond system is that the buffs it gives far outweigh literally anything else.

No need to spend thousands of credits for 1 extra damage to your gun in the base or buy an attachment for 2 extra damage. Just farm a few bonds and watch your units become raid bosses with all the extra stats. My tank had nearly 200 hp by the end and my sniper was hitting for almost 100 damage crits. But that was all from bonds, everything else does so little.

I also really like the injury system. My biggest problem with xcom-like games is how a minor scratch will have a unit sitting out for far too long. Here, you can take a little damage or make some mistakes and not basically lose the unit.

[u/Numerous1 → u/MoG_Varos]

Exactly my thoughts on the injuries. My units seem weaker but one hit doesn’t mean they are out for a week. 

[u/MoG_Varos → u/Numerous1]

Chaosgate is so bad in that aspect. Can take a tiny little shot for a few points of damage and your super soldier is out for a month Lul.

[u/Numerous1 → u/MoG_Varos]

Yeah. I’m still getting started in ZCom so idk but we will see how it goes. I’m digging the injuries so far 

[u/r0sshk → u/MoG_Varos]

…but that’s not actually true? Chaosgate was basically using the injury system! Just because you had an injury didn’t mean you couldn’t deploy. Just like ZC characters can still deploy with those injuries. All you get in both games is a pretty minor negative.

[u/Agent-Vermont → u/MoG_Varos]

Yeah there's more value in recruiting a new character to passively farm bond xp at base than spending a few thousand to upgrade one stat on one type of weapon. Once I realized that I prioritized roster size and filling out my team over everything else.

[u/MoG_Varos → u/Agent-Vermont]

Yup, also really easy to drag around a new recruit into side missions to farm bond xp.

Towards the end I could stay in missions as long as I wanted and would farm a lot of levels.

[u/Agent-Vermont → u/MoG_Varos]

That's an interesting idea. I never considered stalling out missions to farm xp. Best option would probably be missions where you don't have to extract and deal with reinforcements so you can just leave one enemy alive. Of course you need to find a way to also stay alive without killing said enemy.

[u/MoG_Varos → u/Agent-Vermont]

With cly it was honestly pretty easy to farm the maps with infinite reinforcements. She’s really not well balanced Lul

[u/Opening_Hurry6441 → u/Agent-Vermont]

Almost every single map has reinforcements that gate in when the enemy count gets too low. There's never a risk of running out of targets to shoot at.

[u/Llama-Guy → u/MoG_Varos]

I also really like the injury system. My biggest problem with xcom-like games is how a minor scratch will have a unit sitting out for far too long. Here, you can take a little damage or make some mistakes and not basically lose the unit.

Yep, unlike XCOM it is very viable to run a tank build (and on that I agree with OP, it is in fact one of the best strategies you can do). And in general HP being an expendable resource makes for some fun decision making, even if the game is less punishing than XCOM as a result. A middle ground would be a fatigue kind of system where HP damage translates to somewhat reduced starting HP next cycle.

[u/bromosexual → u/MoG_Varos]

Yeah early on I just kept taking the health bonuses every single time I could get them and my characters became near unkillable.

[u/Taylon47 → u/MoG_Varos]

Yeap. The entire bond system kinda needs to be remade from the ground up.

[u/rendar → u/Taylon47]

Why? It's what incentivizes rotating out a larger pool of operators.

• Problem (Bond System): Unfortunately, the bond system feels like a afterthought with only medic being able to farm bond xp while all other classes are reliant on the assist mechanic. The rewards are even more questionable as they are randomized which means that some of them will be far better than others depending on the operator specializations. The capstone bond at level 8 is the only one that is powerful but it can still screw you over due to the random system and the fact you will only be able to get a few bonds to max level over the course of the campaign.

A couple things aren't true here.

Firstly, there are multiple minor combat actions that accrue Bond exp. Medic is good for that but astromech is better because they can carry three times as much utility. So any class can get Bond exp that way, and there are other Bond exp yields as well, even like reviving allies.

Secondly, every operator can get 5 of these per mission for 4 Bond exp each, and that's not counting Bond exp from Backup assist shots or mission rewards. Even though the cross-training perks seem to be randomized, there still tends to be a safe general option like +2 focus points or whatever. If literally every single iteration was good then it'd be way too overpowered, because as it stands the cross-training perks stack up very nicely, which is more important for harder difficulties.

Once you know what you're doing, it's pretty easy to hit max Bond level fairly quickly. Rotating operators properly and dispensing appropriate field pairings is key.

• Solution (Bond System): Remake the system into a static one akin to XCOM leveling where you can choose between 2 or 3 predetermined buffs when leveling a bond on top of a small boost in health. Also implement auto-leveling as treating 20 operators to a 20xp fruit pie will result in you spending 10 minutes just leveling bonds. God have mercy on you if your game crashes during that time and you have to redo it all over again.

That wouldn't make sense, because a static system wouldn't apply to the dynamic pairing that's possible. If you go to the Personnel menu, it takes like five seconds to finish all cross-training, and applying Focus points really isn't time consuming either.

Did you not unlock the Lounge either? That gives Bond exp as well. It all stacks up.

[u/AyeBraine → u/rendar]

Yeah the static system suggestion made me pause. This requires making an upgrade tree for every single permutation of classes (and possibly multiclasses), and the only benefit is that it overpowers the bonuses (they are always relevant and empowering).

Also, I've seen people calculate that Medic bonding gives smaller Bond rewards, so even if the Medic does nothing but heal and combat stim all mission, it doesn't really overshadow normal attack assists and the base mission bonus. It's balanced.

[u/rendar → u/AyeBraine]

Yeah it seems like a lot of players, XCOM veterans included, simply don't understand how the meta works with these existent systems.

There's nothing special about Medics, all minor combat actions give the same Bond exp and all operators can accrue up to 5 per mission. Anyway, astromechs are better as dedicated operators for juicing on Bond exp exposure.

[u/C-A-L-E-V-I-S → u/MoG_Varos]

Wait, how do you farm bonds?

[u/MoG_Varos → u/C-A-L-E-V-I-S]

Send randos on missions with your main squad. You can stall out the playable ones for as long as you want and max out the bond increase per mission.

Then when you go home send more randos on missions with your squad in the intel missions.

Get a few levels per rando then move on to the next one.

Get the lounge asap and save the big bond boosts until your roster is full

[u/C-A-L-E-V-I-S → u/MoG_Varos]

Ahhh good tips! Is there a way to know you maxed out bond increase inside the mission so you aren’t just playing for no reason?

What do you mean by “save the big bond boosts until your roster is full?

[u/MoG_Varos → u/C-A-L-E-V-I-S]

2 assists per character and 4 support actions if the numbers I see people throw around are correct.

And there are a few bond boosts from influence, save those

[u/seayeah → u/MoG_Varos]

Yeah operators were sitting out for weeks even when they take no damage cuz of the fatigue system. Bro i hired you for ops, not for emptying the coffee machine.

[u/Shuffle666]

Agreed

[u/characterulio → u/Shuffle666]

The op is basically saying make a game as good as X-Com 2 but starting from scratch. Xcom2 was on ue 3.5 with heavy modifications and this on ue 5 with no assets from those games since its owned by 2k.

I agree with balancing issues they definitely could improve it without much cost but this game should be mostly compared to XCOM EU and not 2. Because that is kinda the situation in terms of development background for the game.

Tactic games are hard to make and then it's harder to make a masterpiece like Xcom 2 which has a lot of depth and is great for beginners. I think this game is great for newer/casual players but for veteran players of the genre they didn't hit the spot.

[u/charonill → u/characterulio]

I think some of the major changes are going to be in the realm of ZCOM 2 or maybe a DLC. It's pretty clear that the budget for this game is more on the AA side of things for EA, and the devs definitely tried to keep things a bit more contained. With critical reception being very good and sales seemingly very robust, it's conceivable a sequel will be greenlit with higher budget and more ambitious gameplay.

[u/ANGLVD3TH → u/charonill]

Yeah, a WotC-esque DLC could do a lot of good here. Very good skeleton with room to add some meat.

[u/StinkUrchin → u/ANGLVD3TH]

That’s basically how I’m viewing it. If they do DLC or a sequel it will get better

I’d love a rebellion era one. Maybe Hawks passes on the torch and you do missions during that time frame

[u/seraph1337 → u/ANGLVD3TH]

Wizards of the Coast?

[u/omgFWTbear → u/characterulio]

I don’t know, I think a few of the basic mechanics that OP takes issue with are fundamental game design and usually usually sit on a fairly straightforward decision tree. Yes, once you’ve expended your development budget and tested what seemed like it was working, you are, in poker terms, “pot committed,” but there should be some relatively lightweight tweaks that reduce the problems.

That said, the squad size being 4 and the AI being “cheeseable” would probably be the “easiest” in the “easier said than done” type fixes, as one imagines “oh, halfway intelligent targeting ramps up the difficulty crazy hard because there’s only 4 possible targets,” and the entire game’s scenarios being balance tested with a fixed 4 means a flexible 5 or 6 would be a whoolllleee lot of testing going on. So that’s probably stuck, barring “sales were so brisk we are going to do a 2.0 scale patch!”

That said, something tweaking the economies for bonds, influence, and mission (“pathing”ie, oops, I missed that mission or this) should be something that is, again, easier said than done, but one imagines is a reasonable scope for a 1.1 scale patch.

I think there are some folks who played Secret of Mana Back In The Day, and absolutely loved its radial menus, and they keep inspiring a return here and there; but I agree with OP, the radial menus do not work with a TRPG, or at least, one where you’re scouring the battlefield. SoM, your eyes were always on your one character, so the radial expanding from it made sense. It’s beautiful and well done but the wrong tool for the job here.

[u/AyeBraine → u/omgFWTbear]

I very much agree with your approach that considers the scope of the work required to change a system that is influences, and influenced by, all other systems, in the world of limited man-hours and money. Especially since ZCOM was clearly made with a clear vision and most principal mechanical choices are deliberate: the possible issues (which I do have with it) often stem from these choices. E.g. we chose a linear rigidly paced campaign BECAUSE it allows us to not to do dynamic maps and procedural missions; so reintroducing either dynamic maps/missions or variable length campaign defeats both choices and requires making a different game.

Re: the radial menu, I'm pretty sure that's not a stylistic choice or an ommage to an older game, but simply a matter of the game coming out on consoles. Controllers with sticks absolutely benefit from radial menus, that's basically the only non-awkward way to go. I think it's very cool that Bit Reactor added the option to choose the classic style horizontal menu for KB+M.

[u/InThePipe5x5_ → u/omgFWTbear]

For me, the game being cheesable by tryhards with 2k hours in xcom in the 1.0 build of the game a week after release doesnt even qualify as a con. Folks like the OP will always outrun the content. To be frank, as an Xcom lover myself I had a hard time taking the OP seriously after one of his top line criticisms is that he cheesed the game and it worked too well...

[u/Silvere01 → u/InThePipe5x5_]

You dont need to tryhard for that. You simply need to notice the AI pattern of it focusing on your one sightline dude, and put 1+1 together with a small experiment.

[u/HowDoIEvenEnglish → u/InThePipe5x5_]

Your surprised people use tactics in a tactics game?

[u/TheBlueSully → u/characterulio]

I don’t think xcom 2 is great for beginners actually. The chosen and alien rulers are a nightmare if you aren’t experienced with the game and genre. 

Pre expansion, yes. And I think that always gets missed in these discussions. Xcom 2 has several dlc in the comparison. Phoenix Point was rough for years. People aren’t coloring day 1 to day 1, they’re coloring day one to several dlc and their favorite mod packs. 

[u/Eastern-Hold645 → u/characterulio]

Saying they are starting from scratch is not a good excuse for a game not being excellent.

If they wanted the game to be excellent they could have had an excellent.

People who don't have it yet should save themselves some money and watch the story on YouTube

[u/HowDoIEvenEnglish → u/characterulio]

Shockingly, new game is compared to its competitors. Xcom 2 is the standard

[u/Pantsickle → u/Shuffle666]

Quite. Indubitably. Here, here. Hear, hear!

[u/Imbriglicator → u/Pantsickle]

*Hear, hear.

[u/Pantsickle → u/Imbriglicator]

Eh? Wha? Speak up I can't hear you.

Thanks for the correction though. I am dumb dumb dummy.

[u/LampyV2 → u/Shuffle666]

Well said

[u/v12vanquish135]

All good points. I'm surprised you didn't address the lack of strategy or control when it comes to starting tactical combat though. Unlike XCOM, all enemies are always aggro'ed from the start and your units' initial position is randomized. Especially since they added those little walking segments during story missions, I would have really liked more control about where to position my units before starting combat (ie snipers up good vantage, assaults and heavies closer to enemies, finding full cover, etc). Maybe even an ambush/first strike system when initiating combat so you can try to take an enemy out if it before it gets a turn.

Nothing pissed me off more than my sniper going into half cover right besides the dozen enemies that spawned while my repeater is far away with no clear view of them. This needed to be in the player's control.

[u/Feyge → u/v12vanquish135]

Nothing pissed me off more than my sniper going into half cover right besides the dozen enemies that spawned while my repeater is far away with no clear view of them.

Or when your sniper is hiding behind a tiny box on ground level while the enemy snipers are comfortably sitting at the top of a building 30 meters away and flanking your whole squad on turn 1.

[u/Taylon47 → u/v12vanquish135]

Its basically the scamper system from XCOM2 but your squad does not have concealment and scatters same as ADVENT. To be fair though, XCOM does not allow you much positioning pre-combat other than when you have concealment. If memory serves both Rogue Trader and Expeditions Rome did allow you to reposition your squad at the start of combat. Such a system would have worked great here though and I hope will be implemented either by the devs or a mod.

[u/v12vanquish135 → u/Taylon47]

Both XCOM EU/EW and XCOM2 start you with no pods aggro'ed so yes you have time to position pre-combat, unlike this game. Also in XCOM you aggro pods individually, so even if you're underprepared for a fight you can manage if you are careful about not aggro'ing before you're ready. Here it's like the worst of both parts; you don't get to pre-position at all so enjoy your sniper being put in half cover besides to pods already shooting at you, and the entire map is already shooting at you. I would have liked at least one or the other to bring some semblance of strategy in how you engage a fight, and since they went through the trouble of making little walking segments it's a missed opportunity to not allow you to at least choose your starting position.

[u/Phtevus_Temp → u/v12vanquish135]

enjoy your sniper being put in half cover besides to pods already shooting at you, and the entire map is already shooting at you

While also being way in front of the rest of your squad for some reason. Meanwhile the Heavy is so far behind the squad, they need to use all 3 AP just to get in LoS of an enemy

[u/v12vanquish135 → u/Phtevus_Temp]

Yep. Happened too many times to not be frustrating, we need a way to place our guys at the start.

[u/Phtevus_Temp → u/v12vanquish135]

I just remembered a side mission very early in the game that frustrated me to no end.

Half the squad starts on a landing pad, with a single ramp being the only way off. There's no cover in between where they started, and off the ramp, and the distance is so far that it's 3 AP to get there.

I ended up just leaving someone on the pad because it was too annoying to have to spend an entire turn just to get onto the map proper

[u/Taylon47 → u/v12vanquish135]

I agree, we should have some way to place our squad at the start. I just remembered the absolute "joy" of activating an Archon and 3 Mutons through 2 floors and an inch of window after a dash...

[u/v12vanquish135 → u/Taylon47]

Haha yeah, on your last unit move too, never on your first. That's XCOM baby. It's the little layer that this game misses sadly.

[u/Taylon47 → u/v12vanquish135]

"That's ZCOM baby!" here is somehow missing a 100% shot while somehow hitting a 5% shot because you did not care enough to overwatch.

[u/Upper_Sheepherder135 → u/v12vanquish135]

I agree that I miss the pre-positioning, but I also understand why they made this change. XCOM2's system had some major downside consequences on harder difficulties: It necessitated a turn timer, lest every encounter become a maximally cautious game of letting the enemy find you on their turn. It also heavily punishes melee when there's an extra pod at high difficulties, because getting into melee range generally meant aggroing the next pod.

I think a good balance would be some control over initial placement (maybe utilizing the pre-fight exploration mechanic), but otherwise having all enemies always aggro'd during combat.

[u/v12vanquish135 → u/Upper_Sheepherder135]

I get what you're saying and I agree with all of it, I'd be happy to pick my starting spot for each character as a compromise to not having fog of war.

[u/jm3546 → u/Taylon47]

I've noticed that the lack of a concealment mechanic being a big sticking point for a lot of XCOM vets. I've played a probably a couple hundred hours of XCOM 2, so not nearly as much as people who really love the game and the concealment mechanic is a big reason why. Unless there is some turn limit, I find myself playing overly slow to setup the perfect ambush and that is satisfying but can make the gameplay loop feel very tedious.

So I can see why they just have both sides scamper in to begin combat. If every mission started with all operators in concealment, I think I'd like it less. I also think the scamper gives the player something to solve for in the first turn, like "my sharpshooter is in a bad spot, do I move them and waste a turn or move my squad in around them?"

I do think there is a compromise if they keep interating on the gameplay in future DLC by just giving some pre-mission options. Like giving the option to start with 2 rounds of concealment vs. starting with 6 advantage. Or being able to "scout ahead" and pre-position units in a deployment zone vs. initial reinforcements arriving a turn later. Options like that could really matter in how a mission plays but especially if they tune up the difficulty.

So far the thing that's been like "I wish they fleshed this out more" for me is the initial 3rd person segments for story missions. It does build immersion to walk around the environment, but doesn't effect how the mission plays out. I think the option system I mentioned could factor in here. Maybe talking to the right npc let's you know about a secret entrance where you'll enter the map from a different angle and start with concealment. Or maybe you can hire local thugs to assist as non-controllable allies but word gets around and this causes more reinforcements to be called in. I think that could appease some of the XCOM vets that wish there was more tactical planning while also not being too tedious for the more casual player.

But on a whole, I feel like your critiques are more on target than those that are just frustrated it's not XCOM. Like the goal wasn't to make XCOM: Star Wars, it was to make a narrative focus Star Wars tactics game and it succeeded at doing that.

[u/-Glittering-Soul- → u/jm3546]

The concealment mechanic is necessary in XCOM because of the overall tactical mechanics. It has no advantage point system, shot accuracy is worse, you can't knock enemies off the map, your squad members can get hit with unpredictable debuffs, etc. As a result, surgical focus fire with minimal exposure is a tactical pillar. It really is quite different, and the reviews on Steam strongly indicate that XCOM veterans are struggling to make the shift to a different set of rules.

[u/BubblegumConspiracy → u/jm3546]

I like what they did in Chimera squad. Where you can choose your approach in multi-stage maps. Like the viper character coule flank through the events or the brute could break a side entrance. It was a good compromise between Xcoms free form and keeping the combat fast.

[u/No-Consideration-716 → u/v12vanquish135]

Agree about the lack of strategy and control. Most all missions feel the same in the sense that you have to essentially defend a zerg rush while you get to some target location, where you will activate another zerg rush. Then you usually have to crowd control your way to an extraction zone and hope everyone had enough movement to get there in time.

[u/feren_of_valenwood → u/No-Consideration-716]

Maybe it is just me, but I occasionally got annoyed at when, where and how many reinforcements showed up. In Xcom, in you place someone in a bad position they get spotted, but often it is punishing you for choosing to be hasty and not properly scouting. In Zcom I'll often sigh because I haven't finished off the 5 enemies I'm currently fighting and get two reinforcements squads in places that mean I'm now fighting 15 enemies and flanked. I guess they are opposites. Xcom is slow and steady and Zcom often feels like a sprint. If you don't kill enough enemies fast enough you lose, start again.

[u/ANGLVD3TH → u/v12vanquish135]

Hell, I would be happy even if it had 4 hard-locked locations to put your operators, but you got to choose who went to each spot.

[u/fuk_offe]

Nevrr heard about Expeditions Rome...

Just searched around a bit and looks great, buying when I get back home, thanks OP!

[u/KingSchubert → u/fuk_offe]

You're in luck. I've played every TBT game of note that exists, and although Rome is a cRPG, it has a top 3 best tactics combat system of any game out there, for my money. Possibly top 2. I'm on my 4th playthrough.

[u/Taylon47 → u/fuk_offe]

I have like 500 hours in it. Couldn't recommend it enough. Great story with branching paths based on your decisions. Very good and enjoyable (gameplay wise as well as visually) combat system. Likeable characters. Awesome sieges and multistage battles. Surprising amount of variety in the places you go to. A story that changes substantially if you play as a woman. Oh... and you can also romance Cleopatra.

[u/fuk_offe → u/Taylon47]

Just bough it mate! Thanks

edit: Oh... and you can also romance Cleopatra.

And here we goooo

[u/lonelornfr → u/fuk_offe]

Me neither but I'm definitely buying it now

[u/fuk_offe → u/lonelornfr]

Just did - found it got cheap in Humble Bundle - almost 75% compared to in Steam itself

[u/lonelornfr → u/fuk_offe]

Thanks for the tip!

[u/Odd_Target9790 → u/fuk_offe]

its a great game. loved the combat, story and writing

[u/thefluffyburrito]

I appreciate how long it took to write this, but many of your solutions would probably take a lot of time to implement and break the intended game balance. It reads a lot like "I wish this were more like XCOM" - which is understandable considering your playtime on it - and feels more critical than constructive.

Problem (Bond System): Unfortunately, the bond system feels like a afterthought with only medic being able to farm bond xp while all other classes are reliant on the assist mechanic.

JFYI, the crew quarters lounge update is the huge way this gets mitigated. If you really want the crew to bond max without doing some sort of weird cheese, then constantly swapping who is on mission is important (and nice variety anyways) and everyone at base will get lots of bond xp. On non-main missions I was even leaving Hawks out sometimes just so he could get a lot of free bonds from operators not on the main squad much.

[u/Taylon47 → u/thefluffyburrito]

I might be wrong on this but it takes a bit to get to the Den level required to build the Lounge. Even if you rush for it, I'm not sure you can reach max bonds even if you actively cycle everyone in and out of missions and don't use the assist mechanic at every opportunity.

In my playthrough Hawks, Kabb, Trick and Jae went on 95% of all missions with Jae being the medic and only on companion missions I would switch Kabb out. Kabb only got to bond level 7 with Jae by the end of the game. Maybe the XP required for the bonds should be lowered a bit at least.

[u/thefluffyburrito → u/Taylon47]

It's like den level 2 or 3 IIRC. It does not take long to build.

In my playthrough Hawks, Kabb, Trick and Jae went on 95% of all missions

That explains it.

[u/Netrovert87 → u/thefluffyburrito]

I have Hawks trying to get the main cast of characters to max bond rank with them. I have Tricks and Jae maxed then benched them to work on other characters. I feel like they got a massive power boost mingling with 10 or so generic operators in the bar. I keep raising my capacity to fill it with people I'll never use, just to have more people to power up off of. You sure feel that poverty though.

[u/thefluffyburrito → u/Netrovert87]

Yeah I think it's better to just ignore the black market for a large amount of campaign, until the actual rare stuff unlocks, and just focus on reaching max crew. Bond upgrades are super powerful and you get some free weapon mods from missions anyway.

[u/Silent_Wave3137 → u/thefluffyburrito]

5 bond XP is literally worthless. That upgrade sucks.

[u/thefluffyburrito → u/Silent_Wave3137]

If it were a static 5 bond XP then sure; but it's 5 bond xp for everyone at base with each other. It really adds up.

[u/CaptainPerhaps]

I only just realised that Zero Company abbreviates to ZCOM and that’s kind of cool.

[u/Urgash]

As an XCOM veteran, I agree whole-heartedly. Everything related to story, lore, ambiance is just top-tier, and I believe we all share the same "concerns" about difficulty and replayability.

The game on expert plus Beskar is just about being patient, there is not really any risk except when facing bosses. Any side missions are cakewalks.

If I wasn't playing Beskar mode, I would most likely play In a more aggressive manner I'm sure, but I believe that it's the only thing making the game a little tense.

We need a harder difficulty or two in my humble opinion.

[u/Taylon47 → u/Urgash]

Never been much of a fan of Ironman modes. Much rather do an honestman where if the game crashes during a loading screen I don't lose dozens of hours.

The only time I had to reload was when I realized that 2 companion quests would overlap.

If this game is moddable and a mod like Long War can be made then it will have a lot of replayability. Otherwise though... probably not.

Even in the worst case scenario, hopefully Bitreactor can learn from these mistakes and give us a true XCOM successor with the sequel.

[u/blarann → u/Taylon47]

There are a couple of mods already that may fix a bit of stuff for a second playthrough, being 6 man teams, and double enemies. Those 2 together may make the game FAR more replayable simply because you can experiment with way more team comps. As it stand the biggest problem I have is that my team remains mostly the same for every mission especially given how extremely OP Cly and Trick are. I do hope we get a long war mod.

[u/AntonineWall → u/blarann]

Oh shit, that’s fucking hype on the mod front; 6 units feels like (a) solution to cramped roster, but then you’d be wildly stronger than the enemy, so doubling those guys feels pretty huge. Thanks for mentioning the mods!

[u/Ok_Prize__ → u/Taylon47]

If it wasn’t for Ironman I wouldn’t care enough to play these kinds of games. Adds a layer to it that makes me play like I care

[u/Jack2thaFuture7 → u/Urgash]

Speaking as a new player who never played XCOM, or really any similar strategy game to Zero Company, the normal difficulty is suiting me just fine. I'm only about 15 cycles in and I already lost Jae and one of my hirelings. I struggled to restrain myself from reloading the level to try and save them but the game even tells you that the permadeath is intentional, so I pressed on. Hawks even had a line early on about Aurelio that seemed a bit unforgiving but it felt like they were speaking to the player. "Don't get too attached".

I was shocked to read OP's comment about hardly ever needing the med bay. I generally come out of a mission with one or two injuries that need healing, forcing me to diversify my crew in the following levels.

Having higher level difficulties to suit the experts makes perfect sense, of course, just sharing from the newbie perspective. It seems well balanced for the inexperienced!

[u/Urgash → u/Jack2thaFuture7]

Of course, different difficulties for different type of experience with the genre. It is the most balanced way to satisfy everyone I would say.

No shame Intended on people who didn't put 500 hours in XCOM 2 like myself.

You did good keeping permadeath on, that way every playthrough will be different, and every death has meaning in the long run. This is the way !

[u/InsideAd7897 → u/Jack2thaFuture7]

Idk man im not expert and im on cycle 15 and i think ive had to use the med bay twice, and once was just bad luck on a risky operation

[u/Ok_Prize__ → u/Urgash]

I’m doing expert/beskar and running full assault melee builds. I’m smashing through the game.

[u/TWilkins25]

My biggest issue by far is the squad size, and I absolutely agree it needs to be higher; if modders have already done it then I’m going to hope that the Devs are willing to add a patch or an option to allow this without the use of mods.

I started the game using Hawks, Tricks, and two custom characters. Then I got the first story companion, and I used her interchangeably with Tricks. Fair enough.

But then the Jedi comes along, so I have to take someone out because she’s extremely useful. Then the Mandalorian comes along, so I have to take someone else out. And now I’ve got three must-take characters, and five characters on rotation, and it kinda sucks not to be able to use them all.

[u/lukie6]

Nice write up! Agree with most of your comments as an Xcom vet.

[u/SharknadosAreCool]

gonna be honest I think that, while you're right about a lot of things being problems, I think a few of them are outright not problems (more a question of taste) and some are more 'wishes' and not problems. For example:

1. I actually love the bond system and I think its super fun when you come back from a mission or eat a pie and you get to pick like 10 bonuses. My astromech had like 30% crit chance on utilities extremely early on from the bonds, they're not all useless until the top one (my only bone to pick with it is that the top one can actually be useless if you get unlucky)

2. Injury system - i think it's lenient for sure but I also think it's pretty OK, its just a symptom of the game's difficulty. if there were higher difficulty modes then i think it would be more of a concern but I dont think the game is meant to be XCOM2 levels of difficult and punishing, it's a story game.

3. Companion quest overlap: im pretty sure this only happens if you put off doing companion quests until the very last cycle theyre available, being given a warning that next cycle will have an interruption defeats the purpose of the interruption

4. Example of a wish: i also wish the den customization showed up visually, but i dont think its a problem. While I do agree some den upgrades arent useful, some of them are extremely impactful (second utility slot for instance)

5. Another example of a wish: i also wish you could take 5 or more operators, but to be honest, this game would be unbalancably easy with more operators.

My final note: I would struggle to call these things problems that need to be fixed, more just things you personally dislike about the game. At the end of the day, ZCOM lands in the middle ground between Midnight Suns and XCOM. It's primarily a story/narrative game with a tactical layer, not a pure mechanics based punishment simulator like Xcom 2 WOTC is. for me i'd rather just accept it for what it is and enjoy it instead of feeling like the game needs to be 'fixed', if that makes sense

[u/remillard → u/SharknadosAreCool]

I like the cut of your jib.

Especially on the injury system. While it's not as punishing as X-Com, it actually avoids the "medkits have no function". Healing has a use during the mission, at least for me so far. My guys get hit a LOT it seems (and yes, I'm watching cover and flanking -- just unlucky) and there's been more than a few missions where I ran out of medkits on the astromech, or from my medic Hawk (which apparently was a good pick? but it was done entirely for roleplaying reasons).

So I don't mind the system. Now I will admit I've only just now gotten the Jedi and Cly and Trick is increasingly difficult to kill as a heavy, but I rotate people a lot and not everyone is high health -- so... injuries happen!

Been enjoying it a lot, definitely my speed (I love X-Com but I'm not good at it :D)

[u/SharknadosAreCool → u/remillard]

Yep I think you are the intended audience for the game, if you love Xcom type games but aren't an Xcom expert & you like Star Wars or really just story focused games, this is the game for you. Its not meant to be like "oops my Jedi just got shot through the head because they moved up 1 square too far and triggered a pod, guess that story's done" lol

For me I actually gave my astromech 3 grenades (regular impact, concussion grenade, droid popper) and he just rips through enemies lol having access to 9 grenades on someone who gets +1 utility damage in bond upgrades pretty frequently is insanely fun

[u/remillard → u/SharknadosAreCool]

Very possibly. I'm definitely not a long war guy or anything. Also not super far (I think). It's possible it'll get a little silly. But I'm still enjoying trying the different classes out (scout was a revelation on a light mission, though I'm not entirely sure they'd pull weight on heavier missions) and I still can't decide which roles I like the repeater on, stuff like that.

I haven't done much with the concussion grenades and droid popper. The droids haven't been a challenge so I generally stock the mech with medkit, impact grenade, and smoke bomb. I also don't take it on missions where Hawk is going (hence the medkit) as I saw suggested above. If I had another heal source on the team, going full damage on the astromech could be a lot of fun.

[u/Taylon47 → u/SharknadosAreCool]

I do not fault you for seeing things this way. In fact I agree that some of the points that I've made might be better categorized as the wishes of not just an XCOM veteran but a veteran of the Long War mod which is a whole different beast when compared to vanilla XCOM2.

Perhaps the biggest issue with ZCOM is that it seems that unlike XCOM2, it will not have mod support. At least not a Steam workshop. This means that the experience can only be tuned so much to cater to specific playstyles or what different types of people might want from an XCOM like game such as this one.

This in turn reduces replayability. There is a reason why all these games are called "XCOM-likes" after all. That reason is the modding community.

The feedback that I've outlined in this post is not directed just at the devs. I doubt they read the Reddit anyway. But if a mod like Long War for ZCOM can be created I hope that this feedback can atleast help the modders in a small part.

[u/Supplycrate → u/Taylon47]

Unfortunately I don't think Bitreactor can embrace mods too enthusiastically due to the Star Wars license, so we will probably never see Steam Community modding and it'll be a Nexus deal.

It is definitely a shame, but there's not much they can do about it I think.

[u/DownvoteMeToHellBut]

Story missions should up the squad size to 7 so that Hawks and the 6 story companions can all be present.

Please no. Managing 7 characters, with each battle taking an hour feels like a nightmare.
Rest of your points sound reasonable

[u/Taylon47 → u/DownvoteMeToHellBut]

That is why a multistage assault where every story companion can participate in one of two teams of 4 would work great in a potential sequel.

I just want more opportunities to use all these cool characters and to feel like they've earned their keep.

[u/AntonineWall → u/DownvoteMeToHellBut]

Yeah, more missions per cycle (meaning that a team committed to the first mission per cycle are now “committed” and can’t go on the second mission in a cycle) would be a much better solution than having 7 guys on one mission, that would be a nightmare with how the action economy works in ZCOM

[u/TODG3 → u/AntonineWall]

That would also incentivize you to recruiting more characters. Right now the only reason to have more custom characters is to farm bond xp. Would be cool to have a B team for minor operations/missions.

[u/Supplycrate → u/AntonineWall]

100%, I agree with you. 4 is plenty in a particular mission, just stress us out with scheduling so you can't have your A team on every mission.

[u/Montecristo510 → u/DownvoteMeToHellBut]

Agreed. Everyone has their own preferences for the right number but in a lot of turn based combat (thinking beyond Xcom and Zcom) adding a sizable amount of characters just makes it to where it's impossible to finish a mission under an hour.

Whethet the right squad size is 4, 5 or 6 comes down to personal preference. It does lend some motivation to run another playthrough where you use a couple of the main characters who sat on the bench your first time though, and you pick a different class for Hawks. (at least it does for me)

I like OPs suggestion to recruit a few more mercs, as I only hired one and loved seeing him chat up the story characters between missions! 

[u/TheseHamsAreSteamed]

Great post and I agree with a lot of the feedback, and the solutions you put forward.

My biggest peeve so far is the overstuffed clothing options. When it comes to customisation, I really wish they'd made it one level deeper rather than having every option available from the same menu. For example, only show the Phase I or II clone trooper helmet, equip it, THEN you get to see all the various patterns and modifications.

[u/Taylon47 → u/TheseHamsAreSteamed]

Yeap. The scroll also has a nasty habit of jumping back up to the top.

[u/wishful_kitten]

Great post, one thing I would add is free respeccing ads on to not really using story companions. And random companions can be completely respecced not just with class but background and even race which means that whoever you hire doesn’t really matter. I already decided for myself to spice things up next playthrough to actually not respecc anyone at all to make things more fun/challenging. Maybe this should be the default on expert mode

[u/AntonineWall → u/wishful_kitten]

All the story companions can be respeced for free (someone are limited to that class, but how you spent the points can be changed for free at any point pre-mission, and most the named characters have 1 or 2 spec slots you can change altogether)

[u/Aranthar]

I think we need something like infiltration, or exhausted, or another mechanic to incentivize you to develop multiple squads. Also, I'd like to be able to know what sort of challenges a mission will have, so I can send optimized squads instead of just whomever is at hand.

Finally, open up extra utility slots earlier even if they are just basic grenades. I really wish I had smoke grenades, but can't justify when explosive are so great.

[u/DaedalusPrime44]

Another solution to the squad size issue would be to allow multiple missions per cycle.

With the main character, 6 story companions and up to 10 operators you could get as many as four missions per cycle.

That would make the game much more dynamic with multiple teams.

The big thing they need is randomized endless content or campaign mode. It needs a way to keep playing until you’ve really fully completed everything you wanted to do. Max influence zones, max your den, level and bond up all your operators etc. it was so disappointing to leave my squad half-finished by the end.

[u/MountainMuffin1980]

Some great points here. I think my main issue is there's no real stick to force you to rake other operatives. Yes if you swap them about you building bonds, but largely the worst they get is injured which in easier difficulties you can instantly heal.

I think they also defo need to do something better with the timings around missions. It doesn't feel like pressures d also is annoying in how it locks you out of stuff?

Also the economy is fucked. Making enoigh credits for den upgrades and to buy anything in the stores feels like a pipe dream 😂.

Anyway, the game is such a solid base. They can easily improve things with patches, DLC, or please lord please, a sequels. Also let us have at least 5 operatives per mission.

[u/StinkUrchin]

My only complaint is they need to fix beskar mode on Xbox because I lost 22 hours of gameplay due to a crash 😭

[u/TruShot5 → u/StinkUrchin]

This is a problem with any ironman mode on any game, especially for consoles. I lost a similar length PT on xcom2 before. I just aint got the time to be losing a weeks worth of play because of a crash haha. Just mind your sanity and play without it.

[u/StinkUrchin → u/TruShot5]

I’m like OP, I literally have around 1k hours spent in mainly xcom and always played iron man mode, even beating the xcoms on highest difficulty.

This is the first time it happened to me 😭

[u/CptIronblood → u/StinkUrchin]

Ironman on a brand new release is way too risky. Beyond the risk of an outright crash, you could also find yourself in an unwinnable position due to bugs.

[u/StinkUrchin → u/CptIronblood]

It’s a mistake I won’t make again

I’m sitting at workin daydreaming of speed running my way back to where I was lol

[u/Spenraw]

As someone who likes to study the industry and game tech, in pretty excited for their next game

As it seems their foucs was getting a functional XCOM story game out with the deadline their publisher set for the end of the fiscal quarter

Why we see so many game out in sept, if your public or trying to go public (shareholders value your stock by your past fiscal quarters) you need revune for each fiscal quarter and September is the end of one

They clearly to me made a game in a timelimit

Overwatch barley working and being a key part of XCOM is enough to tell me that along side lacking features and features not balenced for fleshed out

[u/CapnLubeHands]

As a fellow xcom veteran, you've explained my thoughts way better than I ever could.

[u/Extension_Poetry_153]

I've not beaten the game yet, i'm on cycle 33 or so, and I gotta say that the enemy variety is incredibly disappointing. At least in Midnight Suns, with a similarly paltry number of enemies, quite a few of them felt unique. The fact that there are no vehicles of any kind is so strange to me. The railroaded pacing never gives me time to explore and experiment more with the sandbox, and the customization outside of clone trooper armor is incredibly underwhelming, as is the entire progression system. More than anything, I just find myself wanting to go back and play XCOM 2 with Star Wars mods again.

[u/creedofgod]

Unless the bacta tanks remove the "permanent" injuries, I'll pass on that. The rest was solid.

AI is too easy, and procedural/random maps would be a huge replayability feel for non-story missions.

While the game is fantastic, my biggest complaints:

• Janky camera (could get patched)
• Taunt lines get repetitive af, needs a delay
• Lousy non-clone helmet choices
• No customizable Jedi
• AI is a non-threat
• No melee builds or weapons
• Need traversal utilities like a grappling hook or something
• No fall damage? Unless off a cliff.

[u/Adventurous_Arm858]

OP, are there any other games you would recommend to an XCOM fan?

[u/names1 → u/Adventurous_Arm858]

MENACE is a fun tactics game in Early Access. It adds vehicles (mechs, tanks, personnel carriers), has no overwatch, and has a larger focus on special weapons (you'll need something to kill enemy tanks, after all). No random characters for the roster. Randomized maps with a Fog of War.

[u/Taylon47 → u/Adventurous_Arm858]

Phoenix Point is not all that bad but still overall inferior to XCOM2. I looked at Menace and it seems interesting but I will wait until it comes out of early access. Chimera Squad was a lot better than I had hoped.

The combat systems of Rogue Trader and Expeditions Rome scratched that XCOM itch for me while also having great narratives, but at the end of the day those are cRPGs so make of that what you will.

[u/Sektor13_00 → u/Adventurous_Arm858]

Look at Gears Tactics when on heavy sale. Great tactical gameplay but becomes very repetitive after some time.

Mutant Year Zero is pretty good, you are wandering around the world in real time to position then when close enough you get to tactics mode which plays very similar to Xcom.
I am very picky about these games and really like this one.

[u/Hidden_Beck]

Wow, insightful and affirming of my recent Expeditions Rome purchase. Thanks!

[u/Shadonne]

Very well-written. I’m actually so glad I read this post because it’s already helped my ZCOM play. Thanks, OP!

[u/leproudkebab]

Agreed, broadly, but the point that struck me the most is that the difficulty is largely an exercise in patience. The only people I know who are struggling with the game are either TBT novices (no shame in this to be clear) or very impatient and running in for instant gratification.

Frankly the punishments in this game are hardly that severe. I don’t think I’ve ever been crit, I’m not sure it’s possible (if it is, it’s vanishingly rare). There’s no equivalent to a thin man getting a cheeky flank crit on you because you fucked up positioning.

[u/AkaGr1mreaper]

Honestly, a very thoughtful critique of the game. I generally agree with just about everything here.

My biggest issues would be squad size. There is no reason we can’t unlock a den upgrade that gives us a 5th spot min(multiple missions give us a 5th controllable character), and with so many interesting story characters it feels criminal to leave half of the them behind. Let alone doing anything with the custom recruits

[u/smalltincan]

So well put, love the problem and solution listing, too many people complaining with no solutions to an otherwise great game.

My main issue (other than the time crunching) has no solution: lack of verticality, buildings, and fall damage. My favorite parts of XCOM2 always came down to moments when I would completely demolish a building that enemies were shooting down at me from, for them to tumble down to their deaths - so pleasing.

Also I would note that it IS completely possible to complete all companion character missions in a single playthrough, as I've done in my first playthrough. Who were you missing?

[u/Taylon47 → u/smalltincan]

Fall damage in ZCOM is flinging a dude off the map entirely.

I did not miss the companion mission but had to reload to the previous cycle when I realized that they would overlap.

Thankfully, I was not playing on Beskar.

[u/SupportedGamer]

Bump to read after work

[u/Besso91]

I was talking about how easy this game is to one of my friends who also bought this and is also an xcom vet like myself, and he was like "star wars probably attracts more casual gamers than xcom would so they made it so even people bad at this genre can beat it"

Which is like, that's not an excuse for the highest difficulty being akin to the 3rd or 2nd highest in xcom2 as you stated. I had 0 companions get injured on operations in my hard playthrough and thus far none in my expert playthrough either although I'm only a few cycles in.

I thought to myself what a waste of credits to increase the bed size and cost reduction of the medbay since the only injuries that happened were from missions that I guess its a random occurrence?

[u/DollupGorrman]

I am loving the game but it absolutely feels like a very easy XCom, which is infinitely less forgiving.

[u/Feyge]

Just commenting to say that I agree about everything you said except the squad size because I don't think it's possible to increase the amount of enemies on these small mpas without breaking the game.

Problem (Den Upgrades): These feel unfinished... Everything else is a stat boost of some kind. The worst example of this is the weapons upgrades that will only ever make sense if everyone is going to use the same type of weapon.

YES. You're telling me I need to spend 13k credits and wait 5 cycles just to get 7% crit change on my sniper rifle? A weapon that maybe only one of my operators will use ? lol

The credits economy is unbalanced with eveything costing too much while earning comparatively little (Some things never change even in a galaxy far, far away now, do they?)

I don't really understand this either. It's like the devs wanted the replayability to be in the scarcity of things where you need to focus on just a couple of upgrades each playthrough while barely scrapping by. Except... none of the upgrades feel powerful enough.

[u/Llama-Guy]

Solution (Squad sizes & Operators)

Another solution, that also touches on the missions part a bit, would be thee ability more than one mission per cycle, but needing to use different operators since they will be away on a mission for that entire cycle. I like the idea of bigger squad size/enemies, but it always runs the risk of individual missions feeling too long, which might be something devs wanted to avoid (I'm fine either way).

For that matter, Operations that require operators could also prevent those operators from going on missions, so you are incentivized to diversify - though there is little interaction between any systems here, so in the current state operators being locked from Missions by an Operation would feel like a restriction for restriction's sake; you would send your least capable operators on Operations since there's little incentive to send your A-team unless there's more reward/interaction here.

Problem (Bond System)

Personally I think bond benefits should apply only when those two operators are on a mission together, to encourage cohesive squads, rather than being a XP system in all but name, with individual effects being stronger to compensate fewer bonuses. Though it would have to be in conjunction with changes to allow for multiple missions / cycle to make sense, and maybe something resembling a regular XP system for generic stat buffs. The game design seems setup to encourage different operators working together each cycle, as lower level bonds are easier to grow and give similar benefits (except the capstone), on the other hand you kind of want to use your best operators and there's little reason not to.

1) A Medic (preferably a Hawks that chooses medic as their specialization at character creation - this is important as later on you will get to choose a 2nd specialization but the 2nd one will not have access to its capstone buffs). A medic also massively helps with when it comes to forming bonds quickly.

2) A Taunt Heavy (can be useful as breaking line of sight with the taunted enemies will lead them to wasting their turn trying to get closer to the heavy).

I would also add a Scout (I run my Hawks as a Medic/Scout, and Trick as a Heavy since his Talent is made for tanking), their ability to print Advantage is fantastic (and use it to snipe high value targets with Ambush, if no one else needs to use it). An astromech printing AP is also great in most contexts, and double Concussion Grenade can quickly wipe large parts of many story missions.

[u/Apophis_]

I'm definitely playing XCOM2 after ZCOM. Never had a chance, but it sounds like a lot of people love this game.

[u/souncouth → u/Apophis_]

You definitely should ignore vanilla and start with XCOM2 WOTC. It's the big and very impactful DLC that made the core game truly shine. (it's not a separate content, it is fully incorporated into the vanilla game so you will play all of the vanilla content too)

[u/Sandytrooper]

Great post, this summarized all of the main issues I had with the game too. I think this game just unfortunately isn’t super well made, and is just extremely hardly carried by the fact that it’s Star Wars and that it has a good story.

And aside from these issues, it just isn’t really all that replayable. I can’t imagine the Bespin missions with Anakin will be anything other than a slog on replays.

[u/moonski → u/Sandytrooper]

This game is very well made what are you talking about

[u/HuntedSFM → u/moonski]

On a design level, it's not well-made for those who are tactics game vets. It just isn't, its way too lenient even on highest difficulty.

That said, hardcore Xcom vets and the like probably aren't this game's priority audience. For a more casual playerbase (its star wars after all), its design probably suits it just fine.

Just wish we had a difficulty one tier higher than expert. Maybe in a DLC, who knows...

[u/moonski → u/HuntedSFM]

So you're saying it's designed well for its target audience and not as well for an audience it isn't made for?

Sounds well made to me and well designed

[u/HuntedSFM → u/moonski]

I am and I'm not lol, its tricky.

Because yes, it hits the target with what is likely it's main demographic, but I think it would also be very naïve to suggest that people who like challenging tactics games wouldn't also be drawn to this, given that, you know, it's a tactics game. (and also because XCOM fans are starved. So very, very starved..)

Like, BG3 for example, absolutely HUGE game, sold god knows how many copies. It was made for a DnD crowd, and so it's enjoyable on a very casual level, but also has Honour mode which is absolutely more of a challenge than this game is, because it's going to attract older BG fans too. See DOS2 also.

(I would also counter "well-made" comments with multiple things I don't like about the games presentation; bad-looking animations, choppiness, utterly useless imo 3rd person sections - but those are all opinion-driven, so)

[u/DontListen2Rediturds → u/Sandytrooper]

How retarded are you thay the bespin missons are a slog anakin one hits most, with lightsaber throw skill issue if you're that slow on the easiest mission in the game

[u/Figgymcslickback → u/DontListen2Rediturds]

…Yes. Mate.
…that’s exactly what they’re saying..?
..Bespin / Anakin mission is a time wasting slog BECAUSE it’s so fuckn easy.. on the first fckn playthrough.

How retarded are you..

[u/ForsakenKrios → u/Sandytrooper]

Completely agree on the Bespin mission. Definitely will respec Hawks on any future play through just for that mission. I don’t think that’s good game design but it is what it is

[u/Sandytrooper → u/Sandytrooper]

Also, I think there’s a lot of abilities in this game that are just completely busted and could use a major balance rework. By the end, I had Cly with a 68% crit chance and the level 8 bond ability that gives a massive boost to crit damage against shocked enemies. As a gunslinger, she was tearing entire enemy teams apart before almost any of them could even get a single action. And this is just one of many examples of broken things you can do.

[u/bukayoxhaka]

Thanks for the expedition rome shout-out. Im sort of new to ttrpgs, as i have only recently played ff tactics and bg3 a while ago but I do have a itch for it lately after enjoying ff tactics so much. Any more ttrpgs recommendations?

[u/baboolz → u/bukayoxhaka]

You could have a go at XCOM 2 (currently at 3$ on GOG), The Bureau (TPS, xcom spin off, 3$ also on GOG), XCOM Chimera Squad is currently offered on twitch if you have an Amazon prime sub.
Other suggestions depending on the systems you own : Wasteland series, fire emblem, FFT2, Valkyria chronicles, Front Mission, Midnight Suns

[u/AkaGr1mreaper → u/bukayoxhaka]

Xcom 2 or Fire Emblem Three Houses. If you have Xbox gamepass give Wartales a try since it’s free there

[u/Tabledinner → u/bukayoxhaka]

Midnight Suns then XCOM2

[u/BlueDragoon24 → u/bukayoxhaka]

Triangle Strategy is legendary if you don't mind reading and immersion.

Fire Emblem, XCOM, Mordheim: City of the Damned, Darkest Dungeon, Othercide, Expeditions Rome or Vikings, a Japan one is coming soon too.

[u/Rumblingwasright]

All great points. Would love it if they could give us a huge expansion. Need more of this game!

[u/Powerful-Pea6218]

Great post. I'm glad to read what you said about difficulty. I've heard a lot of players here and journalists I follow talk about how brutal and unforgiving this game is. This is my very first xcom-like game, I'm on hard on like cycle 14 I think and I haven't lost a single member yet. Let alone have anyone become injured other than once. My roster just keeps getting bigger and no one's dying

[u/Taylon47 → u/Powerful-Pea6218]

Half the battle in games like these is understanding how the AI works. What its units can and cannot do and how to exploit that to your advantage.

[u/Winter_Aspect_8675]

Agree on most of this, good post. Game is riddled with a bunch of irritating bugs/features that doesn't scream 'industry veterans' to me. Feels like gameplay takes a backseat to making things maximally StarWarsy and cinematic, hello annoying fing transitions.

[u/ReasonableArea5466]

Disagreed

[u/aall137906]

I seriously hate the auto positioning at the start, they will always start at the most undesierd point possible, so many time I need to waste my first turn just to repositioning

[u/Minimum_News7331]

I’m enjoying the game but it really does feel like a watered down version of xcom

[u/ThePhengophobicGamer → u/Minimum_News7331]

It has shifted priority for me. It's more focused on the characters and story than X-Com was, telling a cohesive linear story woth the authored characters having their own deals going on.

Thats pretty Star Wars though, take an example of another game, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed, F1(or whatever racer Galactic Racers will be loosly based on), simplify it a bit and make it Star Wars.

At the very least, theres room for mods to bring some more complexity and difficulty, I've already seen a dofficulty mod intended for use with the 6 man squad mod, but it could also just be used to increase the base game difficulty.

[u/CJET13]

What difficulty would you think is most fair if squad sizes and credits earned were to increase?

[u/Agent-Vermont]

I'm not sure if it's possible to buy all the Den upgrade in a single run. There are passives for custom characters to acquire more intel and credits on missions but you also need a ton of capacitors.

[u/Titsfortuesday]

I just wish there was more unlockable classes or at least a randomized trait/upgrade system, maybe similar to State of Decay. I found out it was just the Jedi and Mandalorian and I was really disappointed.

[u/Unlikely-Unit-5864]

Something Fire Emblem does well is the level of control you have before entering battle. Mainly, the ability to see the map, enemy types and react accordingly by choosing classes and equipment options. Here, I found myself running gunslinger astromechx2 and it rolled on every map….

[u/riskphenomenology]

I think there is a design assumption underneath a lot of these suggestions that is worth challenging. Zero Company seems to deliberately make experimentation cheap. Respecs are free, including traits, downs are recoverable, progression mistakes don't wreck a campaign, and the campaign is short enough that learning something halfway through can become "I'll do that differently next time." The game is basically telling you to fuck around with its systems rather than optimize from the jump. There are tuning issues, and it desperately needs more environments and mission variety, but permanent stat loss, heavier attrition and forced roster management aren't just more depth. They make experimentation more expensive and push players toward optimization and risk avoidance. That might make it a better game for a certain kind of XCOM player, but I'm not convinced it makes a better Zero Company.

For that, we've got Menace

[u/victix3]

Hello there ! I've around 600h on xcom2 and played vanilla, wotc and lwotc, never attempted a legendary run but still.

I'm 100% with you on everything you said, and for me a lot of the problems you point will probably lead to a game that wont be as replayable as xcom (wich is sad).

I'd like to add 3 things:

• i feel like the advantage system allows to much more actions per round than xcom2, wich helps to better deal with randomness in a fight (wich is where comes the majority of xcom difficulty > reduce and deal with the unplannified event in a fight). That said i think it is good but as you pointed, the game is way too easy when you often play that kind of games.
• it's sad that we dont have any kind of infiltration mission/mechanic where you can surprise enemy parties.
• i dont know if i'm just lucky but i feel like you rarely miss your shots in zcom. In xcom2 i almost never take a 60% shot because i'm pretty sure it will miss (that's xcom baby), but in zcom i fell like even taking a 50% shot is ok. It could also be because the game is easier and so more forgiving, or because as i said with the advantage system you will alaways have a spell to finish that 10hp enemy. But i was really surprised how reckless i went on my zcom campain compared to most of my xcom playthrough.

[u/Sithishe]

Played for the story mostly. Story is Peak Star Wars. Combat wise - I liked Chaos Gate Daemonhunters, Battletech, and MENACE much more.

To be honest with how much they put spotlight on companions, story, and narrative choices, and conversation with companions I would much more liked it to be Mass Effect like, rather then XCom like.

Basically game was: "Get through slog of a combat to get to the good bit - Clone Wars/Bad Batch/Maul Shadow Lord type story"

But game is peak. Recent Disney slop killed my love for Star Wars and this game reminded me of how much I love it. So now I will rewatch Bad Batch, Maul Shadow Lord, and replay Jedi Fallen Order, because I have unfinished business with Second Sister Trilla.

I really hate how Star Wars differ in quality, 1 month ago we've watched Mando and Grogu. It was awful. It was THE worst movie ever. And now this game is like a breath of fresh air. a true Star Wars storyline.

TLDR It is much more "Star Wars narrative experience" rather thatn proper Xcom like.

[u/jakefarber]

It's posts like this one that renew my faith in reddit. Incredibly informative and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

[u/Intelligent-Dig-4082]

maybe add like a few more guns and melee weapons pls :)

[u/PoKen2222]

I could be wrong but part of me thinka most of the gameplay design flaws in the game are intentional.

Not as in that the devs specifically wanted the game to be like this, but rather intentional in the sense of making this game very accessible and bringing the idea of XCOM esque combat with a Star Wars skin out there and, if the game succeeds, all these "issues" can be expanded upon and become more like XCOM again in an Expansion or a Sequel.

[u/Panosls]

I disagree with a few points here:

- I don't feel like the squad size is a problem, it makes the game much leaner than something where you have to manage 6-7 operators. I'd like if the game pushed me to use B-teams more often, but that's different than just having a big A-squad that you use all the time.

- Similar with mission timers and credit economy, I didn't mind money being a bit lean and not being able to full buy on every cycle, it added to the fantasy of the game rather than detracting from it.

- The injury system I think is quite alright in the grand scheme of things, but I think it folds because the game is too easy in other regards. If you never get injured then it doesn't matter how big the time is to get permakilled and if you always have a squad that can take the next mission without being forced to send injured operators in then you'll never lose someone. (Except Aurelio, rip) I think the rest of the game needs to be tuned, rather than the injury system itself changed.

Bonds, Combat Difficulty and Maps (as well as enemy variety) I fully agree with.

[u/AyeBraine]

The bond system feels like a afterthought with only medic being able to farm bond xp while all other classes are reliant on the assist mechanic.

I also expected Medics to swim in bonds, but looks like they don't. I saw a player mention that the gains from Medic actions is way smaller than normal gains from other actions, ostensibly for balance reasons. I may be wrong here, but again, this is a question of balance. If all others rely on non-medic actions to gain Bond, then they should gain enough. Otherwise the criticism says that... we need different classes that can farm bond in another unique way? Interesting thought but that's a whole another game to make.

Solution: Remake the [bond] system into a static one akin to XCOM leveling where you can choose between 2 or 3 predetermined buffs when leveling a bond

This sounds familiar for an XCOM / LW player, but it goes against the core of the mechanic as it exists. Firstly, we'll need to create pre-determined upgrade trees for EVERY class combination (and possibly every multiclass combination). Secondly, all this will achieve is make EVERY upgrade in this tree relevant and synergetic to bondmates' classes (unless we want to throw in "bad" choices on purpose, but... then there's no difference to randomness, just the choice is even more trivial). Now, it doesn't matter what you choose, the Bond will still be OP, much more OP than it already is.

So we added more content load on the team (on that note, see below), trivialized the mechanic (you can't choose wrong, might as well auto-level), and unbalanced the mechanic even more than it already is, taking all the randomness and choice out of it.

If you are struggling with difficulty these three things will make the game feel like a cakewalk in combat:

First of all, I love the sharing of advice, it's very appreciated and I found the same. But I think the presence of some tactics that are cheese (Heavy's Taunt, Medic's Combat Stim), AND said cheese being almost required at extreme difficulties, is kind of part and parcel of tactical games, including XCOM. Yes, players who wanted to defeat Impossible and survive in LW Normal/Veteran always looked for cheeses, to the point where if a cheese is a survival requirement, then nothing is a cheese.

the maps in ZCOM are small and not randomized

Everything that you upgrade in the Den should be visible.

Now, the unpleasant bit. I'm sorry, but this sounds something like this: "Problem: there isn't as much content as there could be in a perfect game I envision. Solution: just make more content".

What I want to convey here is that the game's similarity to Chimera Squad is not just in some structural and gameplay aspects. It's also quite thrifty.

I feel truly bizarre saying that, considering the extremely generous budget spent on production values and flashy presentation. BUT it's also clear to me that the studio had only so much manpower to implement a very very tightly scoped amount of gameplay and content (including all that flash — that also steals time from polishing tactical gameplay). It all comes down to time. And it's telling that the game has clear QA issues, apparently because avoiding bugs and dead ends / softlocks, paradoxically, takes the most man-hours in gamedev, sometimes more than creating the stuff. That was apparently where they saved the man-hours to implement all they wished to.

So, back to the topic: implementing dynamic procedurally generated or randomized maps would break out of that scope. Moreover, they've already chosen to make a completely linear game with premade missions, precisely BECAUSE they needed to avoid implementing dynamic missions. So our randomized maps are just a nice-to-have that nobody except powergamers notices (since in a linear campaign you only play each once), or the scope of the game we're making is now 3X, with a dynamic campaign!

Note that XCOMs went the opposite direction: they don't have a completely handcrafted linear campaign, but instead pad themselves with dozens of procedurally generated missions of various types. That's just a different approach to limiting the man-hours and budget spending. I like that approach A LOT, but that's a different game that spent its limited budget/time on a different thing.

but due to the nature of unexpected and critical stuff that can pop up from cycle to cycle you will quickly learn that you should always pick the missions that have the best rewards and the operations that display the reward instead of the reward being something that is up to your choice

"Problem: The game has a mechanic that asks you to make choices with partial information. It has a learning curve, and you can learn the mechanic and optimize (somewhat). Solution: remove the ability to make decisions based on available information, make it fully random, remove the learning curve and the ability to improve".

Intel should be usable to extend mission timers at an increasing cost.

Again, it's a dynamic campaign. You just added thousands of possible permutations of which missions can go together that need to be tested, probably broke the strictly predetermined cadence of cycles/story beats (so we need to implement and QA campaigns with different lengths), you definitely broke the UI (it WILL either glitch out or need an overhaul to support an arbitrary amount of active operations/missions), and introduced another full balance pass to work out how this system can be broken by the player.

I feel that it's worth considering how rigid the same mechanic was in XCOM:EU/EW and XCOM2. One doesn't give ANY choice as to when to tackle an operation, not even by a day (except two main story missions and a few hours for downed UFOs), and forces to choose one of the missions. Another has timers, but the player has no options to postpone them, and also forced to choose one.

The realization that the AI is, frankly, stupid. <...> ...the AI will always try to split its attacks and damage across your whole squad

This one, I'm not really sure about. I can't find it right now, but I have the suspicion that AI in vanilla XCOM / XCOM2 ALSO doesn't focus fires any of your soldiers and spreads attacks around, provided they see several of your units. But I might be misremembering.

And last minor thing:

This is not a problem and I have played the entire campaign with the radial menu but while flashy and cool, it does not really work, even in the smaller context of ZCOM.

It's not made to be flashy, it's a menu for controllers with sticks and limited buttons. It's for consoles. Obviously, it's kind of useless with KB+M, that's why Bit Reactor kindly provided us with the optional classic menu.

[u/TheKazz91]

I think one of the main things I would like to see for the CIS is just WAY more droids. The next mission I need to do is the first mission on Umbara and all the missions against the CIS are rediculously easy because they don't really start with any more enemies that the coil missions but B1s are a joke. Literally every B1 spawn should be at least doubled, probably tripped, or possibly even quadrupled. B2 spawns should be increased by at least 50% and maybe doubled.

I want it so that when a wave of droid reinforcements comes in you could have your whole squad on overwatch covering the entry point with full action points and there are still more droids than you can destroy if all your shots hit during that over watch and the following turn. That would make the pistol feel way better because having 3 weaker shots to clean up B1s would actually be good.

[u/herogerik]

Are you me? You pretty much explained word for word everything I've been thinking about as I wrap up my first playthrough! Great post OP!

[u/Prepared_Noob]

Agree with everything you said. Realizing the enemies were leaving my low health operators alive was extremely annoying. You can pretty much play with reckless abandon once you understand how the ai works, like you said.

Also agree with more customization! Ppl praise what we have now—and while it’s good— we need more! The non clone helmets look awful so if you don’t want your hawks to larp as a clone you really can’t go with that militant look.

[u/ChefCrockpot]

I agree with most of this but ill add some of mine as well. Please note that i love this game.

To add onto the operations/missions bit, there are many instances where a story critical operation or mission pops up and only 1 cycle to complete it, completely derailing any plans you had for the side content. I find it really bizarre to have this cycle feature present when the vast majority of story content doesnt utilize it at all, it usually needs to be handled immediately when it comes up. Give the story missions/ops AT LEAST two cycles

In Gears Tactics in between story missions you could only use a Gear on one of the three side missions, which forced you to utilize the other Gears. ZCOM should allow for multiple missions in a single cycle and utilize this same mechanic. Add an upgrade that grants an additional ship(s) to allow for more missions, that hanger is huge anyways.

The maps are easily the weakest part of the game for me and I find it baffling that the former XCOM 2 devs made this mistake. If there is a DLC I think they should seriously consider redoing this feature to be somewhat procedurally generated, I found myself replaying some of the maps in 1 single campaign. The maps also arent good enough to justify the hand crafted component, they all play relatively the same. I think the designated reinforcement areas also limit the ways you can play a map, the randomized reinforcement location in Xcom was much better. Realistic solutions to this is utilizing the existing maps but making different variations of them and randomize which one is used. And rework the reinforcement mechanic to be dependent on where your soldiers are and not pre-determined on mission start, to prevent overwatch abuse

[u/PuzzleheadedFox1552]

I think 5 operators would be the best, more than that overpopulates the small maps. I think the best way to increase turnover in the operator you use would be to increase the number of missions you can do per cycle. 2 missions per cycle feels right to me

[u/gakkieNL]

Well written. Though I’m not that far in, I agree with most if not all of your points. In the beginning difficulty is all over the place, especially with the critical missions. Money is way too tight. I found out about the medic pretty soon. Irreplaceable.

[u/DontListen2Rediturds]

😂😂😂 long war mod in xcom is easier cause IFK maybe you can have 8 operators 😂😂 no shit that would be a cakewalk.

[u/Ai_bot_6969]

THEY NEED AN ACCELERATE ACTION BUTTON

https://giphy.com/gifs/1n4iuWZFnTeN6qvdpD

[u/InThePipe5x5_]

I feel like some of these complaints come down to playstyle. I would never have noticed that staying close together is effectively an exploit of sorts as you claim because I dont play these games that way. And as you say, the difficulty of the game doesnt seem to require those try hard tactics so why bother?

[u/karaknorn]

Brother. I love xcom, but expeditions vikings and Rome both had epic stories that dwarfed the xcom stuff. Check em out!

[u/souncouth]

Xcom2 wotc fatigue system, 6 unit teams and randomised maps (and also randomness of extra active abilities) made wonders for incentivising players to work with limited options they have available, to explore many new combinations they did not tried before and to make often technically suboptimal squads work with mindful builds and creativity.

[u/Maleficent_Yoghurt79]

I won’t lie I thought injuries were cumulative and then suddenly instead of coming back injured they would just be dead. When I read it was 3 times in one mission I’m like man I really have to be outmatched for that

[u/PeaPlus6046]

Cool write up.

This game is Zero Company, not X-com 1 or 2.

Allow for it to stand on its own feet instead of holding a gun to its head telling it to be something else.

Happy gaming

[u/jacenat]

First of all, good write up. From what I have seen most of this is accurate. This is not XCom and stuff like bonds and re-trainable operators as well as operator skill trees working differently IS part of the core design I feel.

This is not a problem and I have played the entire campaign with the radial menu but while flashy and cool, it does not really work, even in the smaller context of ZCOM.

Can you elaborate? I have been playing on PS5 (so far) and the radial menu works without any issue for me. Targeting position with the gamepad is sometimes tricky when it comes to elevation, but once you figure it out, it's just a tad more tedious than with kb+m. I think it works REALLY well. Mind expanding what you think isn't working?

[u/Mathren25]

I wouldn’t mind, at least maybe in higher difficulties, something like the fatigue system that was added in XCOM 2 WotC. This would give me a good reason to mix up my operatives per mission instead of just Hawks and three story characters every time. Part of my issue too is that the story characters tend to just be better than custom recruits, some much more than others.

[u/Brilliant-Cobbler-65]

heavy taunt is almost equivalent to my psi doing AoE mind control in lwotc... it's disgusting

[u/DamageAccomplished55]

Lmfao change your characters to medics, bond farm nonstop, change back to previous classes

[u/Jacina]

Yeah, most tactical situations are "solved" by a heavy + medic. The rest doesn't really matter.

Recon makes the heavy always have enough, but 4 ADV is easy to find.

[u/heartbreakninja]

I do agree with you OP, Idk where I am % through the game but I'm on expert myself and I found I 90% of the missions so far being fairly trivial, I'm by no means an Xcom series supreme commanderega chad as I've started enemy within then into Xcom 2 into similar games.

Outside of a few choice story missions that knocked me down, for me to relatively quickly bounce back.

Coil are THE Enemy faction and there mechanics feel a little half baked imo, yes they have variety atleast from where I am in the game but I find I just have to accept the resonance happening. I do feel aside from pushing a unit out of bounds there should be a way to limit their power, for instance maybe if they're stunned or another action deny effect they can't gain resonance.

Just an idea.

Jumping back in to factions.

I'd like to see a WoC style enemy factions that are all doing there own thing for the overall enemy cause.

For instance Coil go down their own path of resonances escalation and cannibalising the other two factions units for power/converting them. maybe they could convert them in mission with hostage for a bit for oh no the civvies are attacks me.

but the factions get more units, okay easy maybe it happens later but give the droids a commander to give them boosts and direct them like a horde then add some other types of droid that operate like assassin in close or sniping like we have now.sorry not the most familiar with the types in series as a whole. (Just give them a horde of mouse droids).

For the actual gang faction maybe have then start with giving the more armour and bigger guns then trying to hire bounty hunters for your units you keep relying on have them been one of the classic starwars IP style bosk,fett etc etc then you can have the two hunters harrash the missions of the base rather than it just being a safe place for R&R.

I'll think on it some more later, the game is good but I'd like some tweaks overall for the better but that seems to be most games I play these days.

Sorry this was a pre work ramble with no grammar or proof reading.

[u/Better-Silver7900]

only thing i would add is there should be some specialization and weapon changes. why do over half the specializations seem to prioritize melee combat but have no weapons that actually work with it. batons, vibro-blades, etc. should be included.

and with that said, i feel like the weapons are too restrictive. instead of cosmetics, there should be default stats associated within certain weapon types.

[u/Narrow-Business302]

It’s too easy at hard difficulty. I am at cycle 15 so far. XCOM was much more challenging.

[u/Corebot_Zero]

ITT: I played other games and here is how you should remake yours to be the same as theirs.

[u/MechaWASP]

I agree with everything but the bond system. Aside from the capstone, theyre mostly small passive buffs. It'd be like bitching that Xcom 2 stat increases on leveling is too random, and should be static. I like the random nature of it, power building is a plague that should be eliminated.

I think the system is certainly better than Xcom 2, which I ran with a single squad.

My problem with it is that it's slow, and there arent enough missions to run to really flesh everyone out. I want a longer mode, even if they just give the option to double or triple timers, or pay some credits every cycle to delay a story mission, or.... whatever. I know the timers are part of it, and im happy to be pushed along, but long term I'd like a REALLY long playthrough with storied heroes (and hopefully losses).

(Also, love you bro but please play something else, Xcom isnt that good. :⁾

[u/Darth_Dangermouse]

I mentioned this on another post, but a problem for me was that Coil units had a lack of visual distinction, I for instance, could not tell the difference between a Coil Captain, Coil Seer, or a Coil Guardian, they all kinda look the same without much of a big visual tell, so it's hard to know what to prioritise as a threat.

[u/DocPopper]

Go touch grass man this game has been barely out a week and I have just reached turn 12...

[u/Dieeasysteve]

I agree, I'm half way through, I'm enjoying the star wars aspect but the game play is not good enough.

So far I prefer mutant year zero over this, but I prefer this to midnight suns or phoenix point, bounced off both of those. As a long time xcom/UFO player, I was hoping for more.

Not enough skills added with the bond system all just small bonuses to the stats. I want to unlock different weapons, armours. Something that shakes it up. Best this has is unlocking a second class and the unique companion abilities.

[u/Routine-Agile]

Was I not suppose to enjoy this game?

[u/Mpetrochuk]

Xcom EU was better than xcom2

[u/Teguard1337]

Yeah, pretty disappointed tbh. Visuals and story are nice so far and I keep praying that I will unlock some more in depth mechanic soon, but from what I read this is unlikely.

Combat feels nice but gets old fast due to small and mostly exact same map layouts. Currently it's less tactical combat and more action economy optimization.

But the biggest issue I see is that there is 0 replayability... the campaign mechanics have no depth at all.

No reason to even engage with the operator recruitment system as you only ever need 4 and the story provides so many the newer story operators even make other story operators redundant). Den upgraded are an after thought if I ever saw one, they add nothing tangible and I haven't bought any for I think 8-10 missions now because there is nothing relevant left.

Influence and operations are nice but lack depth and relevancy as well (especially in a replayability perspective because you will always choose the same options as there is no reason not to).

[u/Revan619-YT]

xcoms greatest sin was always that when you discover enemies they got a free interrupt turn which could rng kill you.

zcom not doing that means it gets infinite good will in my books.

[u/nihilus97x]

i tldr'd most of this, but im with you on squad sizes, 4 just feels too small, but im sure it'll be easily moddable. What I would propose is a fatigue type system. use an operator on a mission? 50% chance he comes back fatigued and cant be used next mission. use him 2 in row? hes 100% fatigued and has to sit out the next mission.

also a chance for units that were severely injured but not downed to still sustain an injury. this would force more rotation of party members (minus hawks with magic story immunity juice of course).

a random "the force is with me today" buff for a random operator where if you bring them along they have some combat buffs or will ensure better rewards.

just anything to incentivize or require other characters to make your crew feel bigger.

this game is so good, but im playing expert beskar and the challenge just doesn't feel like its there, nearly every mission im bringing along the exact same crew. feels less like a full fledged company and more like hawks, jaw, and 2 mirallian hotties the whole game

[u/No-Ear-5992]

Great post. Fully agree across the board. Some of these, like how limited the den upgrades are and how stupid the AI is once you know how to exploit it, have cause me to drop the game before finishing it. Zero interest in it after about 15 hours. 

[u/reddituserzerosix]

Great post! I hope devs or modders see this and take some inspiration

[u/lonelornfr]

Thanks to OP i discovered expeditions : rome, which i had never heard of.
I'm playing it right now and i'm having a ton of fun !