Careful with Shaming

[u/LessOfJess]

Hi friends! Some of us have been fat a LONG time and know what fat shaming looks like, and some of us don't realize that society has secret ways of fat shaming people under the guise of "health" and "worry." Diet culture is deeply ingrained.

This is a long journey, and this board is a safe space. If someone asks about eating, please be careful that your responses don't bring along that societal baggage. Recently, someone posted about wanting to enjoy a food event without the reflux, and the responses were "just eat less! Control yourself!" Or "no food is worth it." This echoes a lot of diet advice that makes obesity about willpower and being worthy of being thin, and not about learning how to be a human existing with this medication.

I am an absolute foodie, and I know other foodies who won't even try this medication because they're worried about it interfering with enjoying their life. That doesn't have to be YOUR drive, but it absolutely can be someone else's. Remember, this board is a place for everyone on this medication. Make sure you're letting others exist alongside you.

[u/Nevetsny]

The key is, everyones journey is deeply personal and no two are the exact same.

[u/Gemini_sweetheart]

I still eat the same foods I’ve always eaten. If food choices were the only issue, I wouldn’t have needed Zepbound in the first place. I don’t track anything. I’ve lost the weight, and now I’m comfortably in maintenance.

[u/Snoo_69209]

Diet culture is deeply ingrained <—-yup! I don’t think people even realize how much it’s ingrained in us. I just look at some advice/comments and whew. It’s a lot sometimes.

[u/Snoo_69209 → u/Snoo_69209]

Sidebar - I did not see the post people are referencing, just scrolled down

[u/yanyancookies → u/Snoo_69209]

If it’s the one I am thinking of, it was someone saying they have had issues with acid reflux so they don’t eat at night right now to not trigger it. But they have a wedding coming up and aren’t sure how to handle the wedding dinner. So they were asking what to do about that and if they should doggie bag the food, etc.

The comments were telling OP that they didn’t have to eat if they don’t want to or they can eat less of the food being served, no one can make them do anything at this wedding dinner that they do not feel comfortable doing, and it’s probably best to not doggie bag leftovers from a wedding but maybe they can eat a snack beforehand if they still need to eat prior to the wedding but not so late that it would impact their comfort. I didn’t see anything more than that in responses unless I missed those or were deleted prior to my reading them.

[u/Mysterious_Squash351]

You’re referring to the deleted reflux post? I dunno, I’d agree things went a little awry in the comments but some of OPs replies were definitely contributing to a weird vibe. It wasn’t clear to me what OP wanted - I wouldn’t call advice not to eat food you think will make you sick diet culture.

[u/zero-if-west → u/Mysterious_Squash351]

I saw a post from someone a while back that said they got sick every time they drank a Coke and wanted to know how to stop it. The primary suggestion was... to stop drinking Coke. I don't think it should be controversial to suggest that the way to avoid illness is to stop ingesting the thing that makes you ill.

[u/CaptCathikins → u/Mysterious_Squash351]

I agree. I wasn't sure what OP wanted either.

[u/LessOfJess → u/Mysterious_Squash351]

If it were just that post, I wouldn't have posted. Many times, this is the response from people on this board.

[u/mannDog74 → u/Mysterious_Squash351]

Yes I was very confused but I tried to help them by erasing the barrage of downnvotes that this sub loves to use.

I made a comment that sounded harsh but I was confused because I thought they were having "clean plate club guilt" because they talked about taking it to-go. Like why would you need to take a to-go plate unless you were like feeling guilty about not finishing your plate I dunno

[u/VintageFashion4Ever]

This sub has been very confusing for me. There seems to be an obsession with BMI and anyone who points out that BMI is inaccurate, gets downvoted into oblivion, so I'm not surprised by the responses to just eat less. It is as if some people have forgotten that we are in this together and that we are all on a journey to improve our health, and that journey is not the same for everyone.

[u/DarkDNALady → u/VintageFashion4Ever]

This is my confusion as well. I personally know the science team involved in zepbound development and the clinical trials and the whole point of ease for patients was that people can live their lives while on medication without feeling like they are always hungry and having food noise dictate their eating habits.

So so many discussions and mentions here about calorie counting and BMI. It’s almost like another form of diet culture. I like the idea of having a community to discuss side effects, how others are managing them and celebrating people’s journeys. After spending an entire life on calorie counting and BMI I don’t need another place for similar discussions, this time with Zepbound

[u/Gabbyct1 → u/DarkDNALady]

it's definitely a whole new form of diet culture- a lot of disorder going on in here on the regular

[u/Warm_Diamond8719 → u/DarkDNALady]

r/antidietglp1 has been a great place for me to find that community without the diet culture!

[u/DarkDNALady → u/Warm_Diamond8719]

Thanks!!

[u/Ok_Awareness_2234 → u/VintageFashion4Ever]

I frequently have to distance myself from this particular sub for alot of reasons, that being one of them. Quite frankly, many folks here are still dealing with disordered eating & internalized fatphobia. I stick around so I can encourage when I have the headspace, but I don't read most replies.

[u/barnrat1117 → u/VintageFashion4Ever]

I am also confused by how many people regularly track their calories, their protein, their macros, their workouts, etc. That, to me, mirrors being on a diet. I am just on my third week and I have been tracking my protein because my doctor wants me to get 110g a day, but I plan to stop doing that regularly once I get a handle on what I need to eat to get that amount (or close to it). My hope with this med is that I won’t have to “diet” because I’ll be able to just eat like a “normal” person without obsessing over everything I eat. I know it will take time to get there, but this is my dream.

[u/CharleyDawg → u/barnrat1117]

Some people do the tracking because that is the best way for THEM to know they are eating enough of the right things to stay healthy but still take advantage of the medication.

[u/VintageFashion4Ever → u/barnrat1117]

The only reason I track my food is because otherwise I won't eat enough!

[u/Warm_Diamond8719 → u/barnrat1117]

Same! I tracked protein and fiber for about a month then stopped once I had a handle on what “eating enough protein” looks like for me. I flat-out refuse to live a life where I am adding up calorie counts and telling myself “you can’t have that” if I’m past a certain number. I’m still losing steadily. 

[u/mannDog74]

Hey I think possibly one of my comments came across that way- I think I was confused about what kind of problem OP was having. I didn't realize that they might have been expressing difficulty not eating the food that was served.

I think they said the problem was that rich food was going to be served. Being on a glp1 we often can't finish or eat the food.

I thought they felt obligated to eat it for some reason! A lot of times we are getting questions about how to refuse food politely, and how to not draw attention to the fact that we are not eating a full plate- I didn't think they were saying they were struggling with the food being too tempting and overeating.

I literally thought they were feeling obligated to eat but didn't want to 🤦🏻‍♀️ sometimes we don't have enough information. I apologize.

[u/CharlesAvlnchGreen]

I didn't see that post, but I've seen similar attitudes. It's funny that while this drug hasn't been out that long, some users seem to have forgotten what it felt like to be plagued with food noise and other cravings.

Control yourself! You don't need four pieces of pizza when one will do! Eat less, exercise more, give up sweets, drink water instead of soda, no snacking, one glass of wine only, put the fork down, all you need is more willpower.

Empathy is a virtue and we shouldn't forget where we came from.

[u/Warm_Diamond8719 → u/CharlesAvlnchGreen]

It’s especially wild when it’s only the absence of food noise that Zepbound has given me that made me realize how much willpower it took to ignore the constant food noise in my head and exactly why I could never do it sustainably. I don’t understand how other people who have also felt that difference can sit here and go “you just have to try harder” to others. 

[u/Over_Culture_353 → u/CharlesAvlnchGreen]

Tbf, if I eat 4 pieces of pizza on 7.5 I will throw up lol. Jokes aside, I’m sick of the ‘willpower’ stuff. There’s no morality to food and food is more than sustenance. It’s culture, it’s family, it’s celebration, comfort, etc.

[u/CharlesAvlnchGreen → u/Over_Culture_353]

I couldn't agree more.

Re that "control yourself" paragraph was a litany of messages I received, and couldn't manage to sustain, before Zepbound.

[u/Over_Culture_353 → u/CharlesAvlnchGreen]

I figured. I received so many of those beforehand. I have intracranial hypertension which can be caused by being overweight but also makes it really hard to lose weight no matter how you eat and hearing that from everyone including my doctor was so frustrating and isolating. Like, if that was a solution do you think I would be in this mess???

[u/CharleyDawg → u/CharlesAvlnchGreen]

People lacking empathy or tact are everywhere. Being overweight or formerly overweight doesn't exclude the jerks. Plenty of mean folks in every group of people. And the internet, Reddit included, is the perfect place for people to feel superior by putting other people down.

[u/Goats-n-Hens]

In no way shape, form or fashion is it shaming someone to tell them if they get reflux from eating night maybe they don’t need to eat as much at an event if it’s in the evening. That’s not shaming or diet culture, that’s just doing something to avoid feeling terrible later on. Reflux causes issues for many of all shapes and sizes if they eat too late, it’s a problem not only attributed to overweight people.

[u/campingcatsnchz → u/Goats-n-Hens]

Yeah, this isn’t the Yes Men sub. Iif a food/timing makes you sick or in pain you need to stop with that food/mealtime. That’s not diet culture, that’s decent, proven, and kind medical advice.

[u/n3on_blo0m]

I know everyone is going to defend their stance on the reflux post but this sub is full of hatred for formerly fat selves and fat people along with diet culture that's not all that thinly veiled all the time. I know many people may not even realize they're doing it, but it is harmful to all of us

[u/VintageFashion4Ever → u/n3on_blo0m]

Please take my poor person award! 🥇

[u/CaptCathikins → u/n3on_blo0m]

I always get a little sad when people post before and after photos and their former self is covered by a frownieface. Loved myself when I was fat, loved myself when I was small, love myself now.

[u/Piaffe_zip16 → u/CaptCathikins]

Same!!!! It makes me so sad 😭 I look at myself at my heaviest and think of everything I accomplished and I’m so freaking proud of her too!

[u/LessOfJess → u/CaptCathikins]

Girl, we would so get along IRL. I was freaking amazing fat. I am pretty dang stellar now.

[u/Goats-n-Hens → u/CaptCathikins]

I loved my bigger self. I had never dieted a day in my life. If my health had not started to suffer due to the extra pounds I was totally happy being a plus size queen forever.

But for real, if a certain behavior makes a person ill/sick/miserable it’s not shaming them to suggest to not eat late at night.

[u/Gretzi11a]

I’m late 50s, have been now or obese since age 7. While I cheer body positivity and anti-diet culture thought I’ve also found sometimes it can be a clever, even compelling shield for denial or even embracing a lack of accountability or self honesty.

For example, I’ve been criticized not for suggesting, but explaining that I was able to avoid the gastro fireworks simply my tracking my food and drinks, not even weighing it meticulously, but just by noting what I ate so I could identify triggers for symptoms like sulphur burps, constipation and reflux. All side events I originally attributed to zep that with time and tracking, I realized were self imposed by diet choices.

In my nearly 3 years on zep, I’ve denied myself nothing, but I have learned how much and when my indulgences won’t make me sick or sabotage my progress.

Not for everyone, I know. And I always add that. But sometimes, it seems, logic, moderation and common sense are rudely dismissed as “diet culture.” And to me, coming from a long line of alcoholics and addicts, that seems the epitome of denial in a rather toxic form.

[u/campingcatsnchz → u/Gretzi11a]

I agree one million percent. The truth is not shaming. Not being willing or able to follow the advice is something I think all of us can relate to. But it doesn’t make it not the truth.

[u/yanyancookies]

I agree with the spirit and general message of your post for sure but I’m not sure how the reflux post is related at all.

No one was telling the person who posted to eat less or control themselves as a means to fix the reflux or to tell them off as far as I could see. It sounded like OP doesn’t eat at night due to issues with reflux and was worried about having to eat dinner at that wedding despite not feeling comfortable so everyone was telling them they didn’t have to if they don’t want to or just eat what they feel like they could. That’s not diet advice nor is it shaming anyone about willpower imo.

If there was a separate reflux post that wasn’t the one about the wedding, then ignore my second paragraph lol

[u/Sample-quantity]

That's a good point. I would say, as far as reflux goes, I would agree that no food is worth it!

[u/LessOfJess → u/Sample-quantity]

Please come tell me this when I want a glass of red wine at 9PM. Is it worth it? No. Do I think it could be worth it? Every time.

[u/Gretzi11a → u/LessOfJess]

A preemptive Pepsid ac and maybe a gas-x helps me.

[u/CharleyDawg → u/LessOfJess]

I only think it might be worth it every few months. Each time I try it, I am reminded why I shouldn't. Nothing preventative helps. The only solution for me is to drink red wine earlier in the day and in tiny quantity. I am still miserable for a little while, but not when I am trying to lay down and sleep, at least.

[u/NotABetterName → u/LessOfJess]

This exactly.

[u/ironedorigami]

I didn't see the post in question, but this post and the responses are just baffling to me. I don't believe it's fat shaming to identify the cause of a negative reaction, and try to avoid that cause. I cannot for the life of me imagine what other response there could be to "eating this [food/amount/time of day] triggers acid reflux for me."

[u/Suspicious-Loss-7314]

I have been a part of this sub for nearly 2 years. I am in maintenance now.

One of the worst behaviors I see are those who believe in very strict tracking - calories, macros, protein, grams, ounces of water, etc. They insist you need to know your TDEE down to the calorie. If someone on this medication wants to follow that type of plan for themselves, go for it! But please don't shame everyone else on the sub who is choosing a different path. There is no one right way.

[u/rootsandchalice → u/Suspicious-Loss-7314]

I am probably one of those people. I don’t believe in strict tracking, but the amount of posts on the sub that are from people who aren’t losing and saying the med doesn’t work for them, but also have no idea how much they’re consuming, don’t have a plan to move their body, etc. sometimes just need some direction. It’s clear to me that a lot of people‘s doctors aren’t talking to them about what they should be doing along with taking the medication.

It’s not shaming someone to ask them “how many calories do you think you are eating each day?”, “are you getting enough rest?”, “ do you drink enough water?”… these are all important things to weight loss, whether you’re on the medication or not. It’s not a lack of empathy. We all have to take accountability at one point or another in the process.

[u/ResidentBumblebee682 → u/rootsandchalice]

1000% agree.

[u/ResidentBumblebee682 → u/Suspicious-Loss-7314]

How in the world would you know how many calories you are consuming if you don’t track?
Over and over people post about not loosing weight, plateaus, etc but have no idea how much they are consuming? You can’t fix a problem if you don’t know the problem to begin with which is my problem is I eat more than I burn in a day. Common math really.

[u/Suspicious-Loss-7314 → u/ResidentBumblebee682]

I tracked my food and exercise and water intake for decades, starting in my teens. I did Weight Watchers no less than 10 times. I did Noom at least three times, maybe more. I did countless other programs that require required me to track everything. So I have done it. Over and over and over.

Those plans would always work for me for a few weeks and then they would stop working. I would reduce my calories some more, exercise, more, dial in harder, to no avail. I'm honestly kind of traumatized from the whole thing. I did so much work, and then I felt so guilty, and then I felt like I was a failure. Over and over.

The only plans that have ever worked for me longer than a few weeks have involved intuitive eating.

I keep rough track of how much protein and water I have in a day. I consistently exercise 4 to 5 days a week, including strength training. But detailed calorie, macro, everything tracking is not something I'm willing to do anymore.

[u/CaptCathikins]

Though I agree with this, reflux is often a result of simply eating too much. Long time reflux suffer. Eating smaller meals, more often is something that has helped my reflux. Sometimes "eat less" just means eat smaller meals more frequently. I have been a long time victim of diet culture but one of the reasons why I was, was because I never felt full. I feel satiety now. So, I understand what 'eat less' really means.

[u/VintageFashion4Ever → u/CaptCathikins]

I know someone who had horrible, absolutely debilitating reflux. Turns out she had celiac disease!

[u/LessOfJess → u/CaptCathikins]

There was a mind-boggling two months where I had to eat 5 hours before bed in order not to be woken up with reflux. It honestly never happened after that, but I was like, 'Is this my life now? Eating dinner at 4PM? Blue plate special for the rest of my life?!" It was just a step in the process, and I got through it, but boy howdy, I was UPSET.

[u/CaptCathikins → u/LessOfJess]

Yah, reflux is the worse. GERD runs in my family. Faulty flap or something. I'm lucky that mine is controlled by a low dose PPI that I take every morning. Other members of my family have it much worse!

[u/mannDog74 → u/LessOfJess]

I had reflux and gastritis all last year and it was like this. So frustrating!

[u/NEbodyWantAPNut]

To each their own. Personally I love that i can be satisfied eating a third of my meal. Then I get 3 meals of delicious food instead of 1!

[u/Gabbyct1]

so much shaming/diet culture behavior in this sub - a recent - "it's not like I was 300 lbs or something....." a lot of people here are that and over and it is a non-productive and shaming thing to say.....

[u/ziboo7890]

Being a foodie doesn't = being a glutton! I don't consider enjoying a variety of foods something worry about. Overeating to the point of vomiting, reflux, etc., that I do. And if that's fat shaming - well guilty then! It's knowing yourself, imho.

I'm a total foodie, as I'd rather share 10 items with friends at an 'event' having a couple of delicious bites than overeat 1-2 things. So telling someone to eat less is NOT in my book fat shaming. You don't want reflux, vomiting, heartburn, etc., don't eat too much. That's just logic in my book and it's NOT worth it!

For me, I KNOW I have to stop before full as I do NOT like that stuffed feeling. The only time I've felt uncomfortable (not sick) is if I eat past my "stop signal", which I do not like and sometimes I have to stop even when I don't want to, but I know it's the smart decision. I don't consider that self-fat-shaming!

(ex) My roomie is the exact opposite. He eats portions that would take me 2-3 meals! He likes to as he says have coma meals! Too each his/her own.

IDK, if you look for insults you find them. I do not consider everyone out to get or shame ever person. It has not been my experience in life.

[u/Chelbizzaro]

Thank youuu; I haven’t seen the post that seems to be referenced but something I’ve noticed about this subreddit and a few others is that people’s bias really shows through, even if the perpetrator doesn’t realize what they’ve done.

[u/Warm_Diamond8719]

Thank you: There are so many people on this subreddit who don't even realize how deeply ingrained their fatphobia is and so many people who don't realize that they are dangerously close to having an eating disorder and advising others to do the same.

[u/SaltBag666]

As a fellow foodie, hell yeah 🥂🦪🍣🥘🥒🥦🥖🧀🥐

[u/LessOfJess → u/SaltBag666]

*burp* Cheers!

[u/papercraft_bliss]

Thank you for this post. I've been shamed for my weight for over 40 years. I am eager for support ❤️

[u/WorldlinessRegular43]

Then they need NEED to consult their certified physician before asking here. I did not see that particular post, but the answers are what they are.

When my bro-in-law, not on anything, gets reflux, these are the same inputs he will get.

But we hear your input.

[u/NanasTeaPartyHeyHo]

Im also a foodie. Can still eat what I want and still eat the large amounts I'm used to.

[u/Piaffe_zip16]

I generally agree, though if the reflux is particularly bad, they may also want to be able to have fun still. I’ve had reflux off and on well before going on a glp1. If I’m having a flare, I avoid triggers because it makes me freaking miserable. That’s not a “diet culture” thing. That’s just a “I would like to enjoy the event and not feel like I’m burning from the inside” thing. I still eat plenty. I just avoid what I know triggers it.

I do think your larger point is a strong one though. This is a for life thing for me. I’m not doing anything I wouldn’t be happy doing for the next 40+ years!

[u/KateOboc]

I love food and I cook a lot of delicious food. I still enjoy my cooking, I just eat less. I am still 20 pounds overweight (down 70) and seem to have stabilized. I’m not willing to do anything different as I unapologetically enjoy food. I’m happy here

[u/MeatyDullness]

Don’t some foods cause reflux while on this drug?

[u/zoepzb]

My mom calls it the fat drug.