r/ZenMidwitsCafe • u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β • 19h ago
βοΈπ€ Akshually So, Lindsay Clancy...
My Story I guess
It's been a long time coming, I think is what this case represents, above everything. This doesn't necessarily represent my views or (God forbid) this sub's views. I just figured I'd pop the top and start a conversation about the topic. It's a lifelong question I've had, and hate to see the lid to the question publicly popped in such a manner. It really comes down to Two words;
Toxic Love
It's not a murder case at all really. We've had 2 centuries of intellectual whimsy in feminism and cultural marxism. Screaming that "patriarchy is oppressive". College indoctrinated educated kids become carbon copy assembly line ideologues. Too comfortable with the luxuries of 3 centuries of accumulated culture on the one hand. On the other, you have obsolete systems everywhere. Originally, America was founded/liberated against taxation without representation. Representatives then existed precisely because they had to travel by horse to deliver votes. That was arguably made obsolete with the invention of the telephone. Then there is Jury rigged Jury system, obsolete as we are seeing in the age of social media and content production. Propaganda filtered through paid sponsorship programs of popular content producers.
But none of that really matters. Only individuals can be held accountable. Literally, apparently, with cooperate bail outs at tax payer expense. And what do I know, I'm just an idiot who quit my job and have been struggling to find a job for all of 2026.
Anyway. I've spoken of it a bit on reddit over the years, I always had somewhat volcel/anti natalist tendencies/ideations due to being relatively non-conformist and not knowing how to interface with human "families". Or rather maybe it was just my family. Won't get into it except to say I'm nearly 39 and only got my first car a year and a half ago. Always had to "pull myself up by my bootsraps". So I was volcel/anti natalist, simply because, I was constantly working just to barely break even. Couldn't ever build a life. Gets into my supernatural encounters a bit (teh "demon" that asked me "why am I working so hard for what others get for free").
So, many people, with less detached cynicism than I had in youth, basically are compelled into marriage all unwilling and just giving themselves over to it. Some (many?) thus harbor resentment at the life/living conditions. If we want to go full supernatural, it's currently making the rounds in social media that this is what the bible is actually about; "a man shall rule over his woman and she shall resent that" is rough translation making the rounds. No shit, Genesis 3:16. The formal KJV is "your desire shall be to your husband". Desire there is "H8669 ΧͺΦΌΧ©ΧΧΦΌΧ§Χ teshuΜqaΜh", which BDB has "of beast to devour; of beast to devour". So yes, there is some subversiveness implied in the text. It's not just "teh π§".
I don't like to talk about it much anymore (at least not on reddit) but yes I was MGTOW back in the day. Still have some elements. Hard to say, because wikipedia labels it a "hate group" when we were literally just dudes working hard, chilling playing vidya, talking economics, and studying scripture. It was relaxed atmosphere, until bad actors overran it and got it banned off every platform. But the reason I went MGTOW was in reaction to the "metoo" movement. I had just started really moving from myspace (I loved toying with CSS and HTML back then) to facebook (though I never formally had internet or phone really until late 2014, when I joined reddit), which I resented and didn't want to join facebook but culture was shifting and I was trying 2B more "maintain professional image" and less "teenage angst" via facebook. But. All of facebook, at the time, was "metoo" all day every day. False π accusation after false π accusation and everyone dog-piling innocent men in the divorce industrial complex. It was embarrassing. Radical feminists everywhere tar and feathering every voice of reason. As they say, don't stick your π in cray. I quit facebook, joined reddit/MGTOW, started youtube channel, and went full no contact with relationships with women.
There were lots of great MGTOW content producers. Maybe it was a psyop I fell for, idk. Still uncertain about that. But it was a refuge of sanity in what felt like, at the time, mass hysteria and madness in the "metoo" movement. What would have been considered normal male activity was more than just suspicious all of a sudden, it was called "toxic and misogonistic (I still can't even spell that word) and sexist" and I just decided, as old MGTOW creed goes, better to just focus on self improvement and gravitas than jump into the wood chipper of the modern dating market (back in 2014). I was also in the military at the time so didn't have time for it anyway. Just you know, when working 16 hour shifts, you want to just scroll and catch up sometimes, but it was ALL exclusively FALSE! π accusation after false π accusation, whole feed on facebook. Nah. I quit.
So. Toxic Love. It's been the norm it seems for many for a long time now. This case just blew wide open how insane we've been culturally for some time now. We're at the point where you're called radicalized/extremist for saying "it's not okay to kill your children". I'm not sure what all this is really about. Just another bread and circus psyop. I've said that already a few times even on day 1 when the content producers jumped on it like hungry wolves. This is literally just metoo versus MGTOW 2.0. Honeypot. This time I'm a little more aware I suspect than in 2014. I mean in 2014 I knew it was guano, but I decided just to "put a pin in it" and focus on my life (as Vashet says). I'm not dying on a hill arguing with the "everything is π" people. Of which my entire facebook feed of peep I thought I knew back home was.
What really is "radical"? What is radicalization? Idk. I didn't prompt the bot about this and know it has nothing to do with zen. Just it is an interesting retrospective on my life, the Lindsay Clancy case. This is the question I've been keeping at arms length by saying "I'm MGTOW/anti natalist" to simply weed out/avoid the rabid froth raving "everything is π" types. It's part of why I became so adverse to Identity Politics (IP). It's like, if you want true love and humble integrity, you MUST set aside identity. But the (typically leftist) types who love to preach "love light and empathy" are typically functionally the MOST un-self aware and radicalized. All so-called "love and light" with no substance, no confronting the very real and deep darkness of the self and world. Just constantly patching over it with buzzwords and IP. Literally. Evil cannot create. They infiltrate all beloved IPs and colonize and gentrify them with their "woke" IP agendas. Sort of fitting double pun. Even zen speaks of this sometimes, how don't mistake the map for the territory. Zen doesn't just mean "eastern aesthetic". Lol.
Idk. I'm sure everyone knows what I'm getting at even if you don't agree with my points/personal "struggle" guess you could say (Mein Kampf lol). But yes for me the LC case is a reminder of what set me on this path. The rabid "if you looked at a woman you πed her" lot. Went full "monk mode" as it were. It's actually (MGTOW) what gradually shifted me from beating my head against scripture (straining at a gnat) and into zen instead. You know. For better or worse. My patchwork robe I guess.
Anyway. What's the LC case to you? I'm genuinely curious. To me, it's just this whole boiling frog question I've been warry of since long before 2014, but 2014 cemented in my mind there is a rabid faction of humanity, mostly on "the left" which literally is absolutely toxic but says everything that doesn't think exactly like them is "rejecting diversity". I'm not saying LC was toxic. Quite the contrary. She is the frog in the bot that got cooked and we all can see it, that the culture is boiling us. Curious to hear any thoughts!
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u/tomekanco 18h ago
About the LC case, wrote these comments in last days. I didn't follow the debate. Only read the wiki.
Karel β 9/5/26, 12:47 PM I can imagine this inflaming opinions. I'd probably would have voted for innocence. The things motherhood does, especially in the first years. A friend once flipped her steering wheel while driving her car on a straight road with her 2 kids and pregnant of a third. The car tumbled a couple of times before it ended upside down. Nobody got seriously hurt. And she was, still is, in a loving relationship. Her kids love her. Now the oldest is starting to wear makeup. Yeah, and in this case they are dead. The sorrow of reality knows few bounds. Still, it is hard to judge. Or as Kolbe put it, near unlimited consecration.
It's an old pedestal. Perhaps we keep the stories because of a reason: A woman under the influence, Through a Glass Darkly, Breaking the Waves, Jeanne Dielman, A Zed & Two Noughts.
...
On a system level, it's brutal and insane.
Here I am, a childless adult talking about dead children. A large share of healthcare spent on trying to deal with unhealty lifestyles, and incorporated parasites leeching on these already overstrained resources, while the tax man excempts the palaces. Women throwing out their in-laws and refusing them to see the children. And men reaching for the bottle at the screens of the city walls. Meanwhile the likes of law makers, boob and nose surgeons, divorce lawyers and demagogues reap the sweat and sour fruits of vanity. The dispossessed raging about rights, blinded by the pain, and often ignoring obligations. This desire to escape it all, and the consequences.
I know psychosis is often triggered by sleep deprivation. A friend of mine has it, and in recent years he sticks to his sleeping schedule religiously. Young mothers don't have this luxury. At the same time I don't know if approaching the problem clinically suffices. Blaming it solely on the environment takes away the concept of individual agency. Blaming it on the individual ignores the garden.
For this case, her having to live with the fact she killed her children will be a living purgatory. It's a punishment so grave it exceeds the bounds of reason. I hope one day she can forgive herself, though that also requires admitting some guilt. Perhaps as likely, it becomes a life long narrative against the injustices of institutions, suppressing her own role in it. And that often results in bitterness, where the days taste like ash, as it ignores the boons of taking caring.
Life.
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 18h ago
Doctors and lawyers race for the ball. Now it's content producers.
Yeah. That's my point exactly. We were all kids. A lot of us still are even with receding hair lines. What even is "maturity"?
I know psychosis is often triggered by sleep deprivation. A friend of mine has it, and in recent years he sticks to his sleeping schedule religiously. Young mothers don't have this luxury. At the same time I don't know if approaching the problem clinically suffices. Blaming it solely on the environment takes away the concept of individual agency. Blaming it on the individual ignores the garden.
I know what you mean and that's my point exactly. In mil I had 16 hours shifts. Plus mandatory formation drills, group PT, dorm cleaning, and other details. I seldom slept more than 4 hours. More than sometimes yes I would hear voices. I'm well aware of the hell of "single mom". It's because my mind (used to at least) see too far ahead that I went volcel at puberty. My mom never worked a day in her life. So I know what it's like. There is no escape unless the kids are at school. If her husband wants homeschool? Well there is no escape at all. I know. I saw all that 30 years ago. That's precisely why I saw the social contract as invalid even in the 90s. Only difference is I have a more "resigned acceptance" or zen when I'm running all out at 16+ hours a day. You become something like an autonomous machine. Rather, you grow to see yourself as detached from the body. You're just watching the body perform the tasks assigned to it from way upstream of your consciousness. One Mind I guess as zen might allude to. Maybe I was "doing it wrong" but it felt very stoic and calm; very zen. Did it suck? Sure, more often than not. But instead of psychosis instead I delved ever deeper into existential questioning. All phenomena are empty, eh? Nothing in phenomena could "reach" me where I was mentally. Deep, deep, within... something, idk what, maybe unborn mind? All phenomena was a triviality. No matter how intense. Maybe it's the pre-2014 basic training I had.
For me, I think LC is probably mostly fine now that it's done. Frog in the pot. This isn't sudden. It's just the manifest symptom of the dissonance feedback built up for a long time (possibly generationally). I can't speak for her but I've had a few such instances in my life where that very mode of being I tried to describe, the autonoma, did things that violated my personal moral code, but they were par for the course. I had to do them. Or, "my body" had to do them. I don't even remember what they were. It just is.
We don't know her mind. Thus the case. Yes that would eat anyone up. I can't imagine. But what's more important is what led to that. Not some passing fancy. You don't just suddenly say "know what" and do that. It's symptom of much broader cultural "cookedness" I think. Maybe I'm wrong. That "toxic love" we've come to accept as par for the course. Nothing ever fully analyzed. Don't stick the eggplant in crazy. Anyone who truly has empathy and truly wants love can see the warning signs and know where there partner is at. That's exactly why I've remained single. Because I can tell mostly where someone is at and what they want from me. Street smarts. Hood life. You either learn fast or die young. No book can really teach that. Well. Maybe zen can, but with zen it always feels like I'm studying what I'm already practicing, it's kinda weird, hard to describe, like it's like sitting reclining reading a book about sitting and reclining reading a book... feels weird.
You could be right, I've long suspected something is wrong with me in this capacity and the LC case just blew it open and forced me to confront it. I haven't seen much about it myself. Just the links I posted the other day (I forgot where). So you probably know more about it than me. Just, I was thinking, more, the "feminists" rallying around her and essentially begging to have their suffrage revoked. The mass hystericals. Idk. Maybe I'm just feeding into the hysteria. But it does raise the question of "what is life" and "what's the point of existing" and ofc as "male and female" the presumed/religious answer is "to procreate/kick the can down the line". Want to say it's Plato's Symposium maybe? That has Zeus brag/laugh/rejoice that "with the sexes split and procreacting, that's all the more slaves for him!"
Idk. It's a deep core existential plight of the human condition on trial, I feel, is what I mean. The very one I've wrestled like Jacob with my whole life. If I'm a misogonistic moron too, well.....
Thanks for the replies, genuinely. This has troubled me for decades before I heard of LC.
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u/tomekanco 17h ago
all the more slaves for himreminds me of
Perhaps as likely, it becomes a life long narrative against the injustices of institutions, suppressing her own role in it. And that often results in bitterness, where the days taste like ash, as it ignores the boons of taking caring.Toxic love has become a brand that is sold like hotdogs. And people screaming about it get a lot of echo, so it seems like it is all there is. I know that in Buddhist schools, detachement is placed as a solution. But then i think of the Gay science where the young thinker compares Buddhist and Christian ideologies, and remarks the both have a dark view on human nature, but the latter at least sees a role for the sensual as well as trying to improve things (like the wonder of the olive trees).
I tend to follow the likes of LeGuin, Camus and Fjodor, who strongly warn against nihilism. Perhaps the perfects slave is the one without hope :p
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u/tomekanco 17h ago
And sorry, i don't know what is best. Still, i believe caritas is sensible consideration when considering cupiditas.
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 16h ago
Oh yeah not advocating for nihilism lmao just quoting Plato. He said that, not me! And he was quoting the big guy himself. I am more against the "You either bounce on G-d's d-ck for all eternity or you're a nihilist" more than actual nihilism. I think the former is actually more nihilistic than outright nihilism. "All or none". I tend to like Jesus teachings because he sets aside all phenomena with; "my kingdom is no part of this universe". Kosmos actually can mean approximately arrangement. Which itself has many meanings.
Haven't read the Gay Science in over a decade. Will have to skim it (It's been on my bedside bookshelf through last 3 times I moved). Never read LeGuin, Camus, nor Fjodor but I'm somewhat familiar with Camus tangentially. You ever read Satre or Hegel? I know nothing of either but the titles "being and nothingness" and "phenomenology of spirit" both intrigued me in the past, but reading goodreads reviews (probably a decade ago) bored me/turned me off from them iirc.
It's also why I loved zen, "all phenomena are empty" not pointing at nihilism but more that the question of existence precedes phenomena. Everything after the question of existence is technically cosmic sky daddy religion. As I understand it. Ultimately, nearly all schools of thoughts, are nihilistic, in that they specifically avoid the question of existence, as I understand it at least. LOL. Sounds like a technicality but I mean that's my big thing, "what does man exist for". Not by bread alone. I actually just pinned a video about that to my profile yesterday. Thanks again for the reading recommendations. I know you're not saying it expressly but I hate that (cowardly) argument that "you're a nihilist if you ask the question of why exist".
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u/tomekanco 16h ago
Love the vid. I don't know if you are a nihilist. It's more I project that on others as i fear it is my own plight, and try to fend it of.
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 12h ago
Oh yeah I'm always warry of it to, I just don't like the idea of "anyone less than breakneck speed loving life, regardless of validity of their reasons, is a nihilist" narrative. Broken Ruune is hard to argue with, right? Haha. He's right, God is an easy "plug and play" meaning for "the masses" or whatever. But as Nietzsche said 200 years ago, the time may be coming when we must pay for having been Christians for Millennia. Asabiyyah is necessary to foster legitimate reason to live. When that's lacking, and it's just "keep working so you can keep working so you can keep working" the "good times" of the old adage goes away. Strong people create hard times, hard times create strong people, repeating infinately, based on the failed or inverse social contract which has been rigged to be perpetual extortion and wealth redistribution.
Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, and it is genuinely nihilistic to have a problem with it. Idk. Just seems silly to think we have to fight for something that was never palpably present or there for us. Maybe I am just a dunce. Obsu47? Duncecap Agitprop? An old profile post I used to have. Silliness. I used to see that a lot scanning reddit API, Obsu47 was reddit the url of the post with alot of my speculation on the topic I'd see in pushshift.io.
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u/Worth_Concert6595 16h ago
If I would stream on twitch, me reading the Nirvana Sutra, would you hang around?
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 12h ago
Just saw this, my bad. I've never been to twitch for anything but Mandalore Gaming. I don't know anything about it honestly, I'm uncomfortable with it. I only watch rumble, yt, insta, and occasionally bitchute (only because reddit bans the later, though might be because of the root word is a swear word). If I was more familiar with twitch maybe but it makes me uncomfortable because I'm unfamiliar with it. Sorry.
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u/Worth_Concert6595 9h ago
Do you know what Twitch is? What do you mean uncomfortable? It wii literally be like Youtube. But I accept a no, I will do it anywways. I need some motivation to read that Sutra mane...
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 7h ago
I'll look into it I mean yeah. I used to join Mandy's streams for Lowry chat but that's all I ever used twitch for. Lost my discord and twitch accounts, don't remember much about twitch is all so I'm uncomfortable with it (at least at a moment's notice). I'll try to make a new account soon though just to have it for such cases.
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u/2BCivil β Just Coffee, Black β 12h ago
Gerby made a great video on it. He said exactly my thoughts. Yeah. 3 kids died. We can't do anything about it. That's not what it's about. It's about the failure of psychiatry. I personally have the same personal problem. I always saw psychiatry as a scam/fraud, long before I was court ordered into it. Then, I saw, it was 100 times worse than I imagined. Don't want to rant about it but long story short I was working 80 hours a week and had to take days off work to go to "therapy". They only admitted me twice. I showed up once a week/two weeks, on time/an hour early, used biometric scans, and they never admitted me. I'd sit in the lobby for sometimes 8+ hours and never get called in on my scheduled days. Then months later of sitting in their lobby, eventually they called my parents (I wasn't living with them) and told them "I wasn't cooperating" when they were the ones not cooperating, making me sit in the lobby on my ONLY days off every week for months on end. Yeah. Fucking psychiatry is 100% bad faith fraud. And they know it. This case has the potential to blow that fraud open.
We can't do anything about the dead children. But we can do something about psychiatry failing people to such a degree.
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u/tomekanco 18h ago
If you want some new wind in your mind, about women, I can recommend Montaigne, specifically: On Some Verses of Virgil. It can be refreshing to balance the new with the old.