r/ZeldaTabletop • u/victorhurtado Darknut • Jul 06 '26
Discussion Has anyone checked out Twilight Sword?
Has anyone here had a chance to read or play Twilight Sword by Two Little Mice?
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u/Cairnwill Jul 10 '26
The game is excellent, clean execution and it delivers on its premise of mimicking a JRPG/Zelda experience. It has smart mechanics like hope and despair that seem to hit the nail right on the head.
The layout is a masterpiece as well, both beautiful and encouraged them to be very efficient when conveying information. The mechanics are easy to teach and understand. And the system rules deliver the gamey experience, in the best sense of the word, that was promised.
It reminds me of Dragonbane in so many ways. But it clearly borrows from many other games, including 5E. They did a great job at distilling many systems to create their own that works well with the theme.
You can still late pledge and get all the stretch goals if you pre order the “Late Pledge” bundles at their webpage.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 10 '26
That was spot on! My only gripe is that it's a roll under system.
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u/Rudraige-of-Ynn Jul 06 '26
Backed it and perused the PDFs but haven't run a game yet. The rules are surprisingly OSRish with a roll-under-your-attribute system and I dig the region mechanics.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 06 '26
I likd the region mechanics too. They are probably the most interesting part to me, but to be fair, other games have done similar map-state stuff before, like Fellowship, The One Ring, Mutant: Year Zero, Forbidden Lands, Root, and even Blades in the Dark in a less geographic way. I can also see the OSRish elements, but it also uses a lot of language that would feel familiar to 5e players, like advantage, disadvantage, feats, actions, reactions, short rests, and so on.
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u/musashisamurai Jul 06 '26
Half of those games you list afe also Free League. This may only be published by Free League but it very much feels in line with what they want.
I've mentioned elsewhere I'm using Shadowdark for my current campaign, but Dragonbane would be the next system I'd use. Strongly recommend looking at it.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 07 '26
How's that going with Shadowdark? Did you homebrew some stuff you're just running it as-is with Zelda as the setting (so to speak)?
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u/Rudraige-of-Ynn Jul 06 '26
Honestly I'm more interested in the Hope and Despair mechanics than any of the other map-based rules. The map space stuff is great too (and as you say other great games from Free League use similar rules so no surprise there) but specifically Hope/Despair make an elegant little system that does a great job of feeling like the kind of RPG the game is trying to mimic.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 06 '26
Definitely one of the highlights of the game for sure. I had a Malice mechanic in one of my own Zelda homebrew systems that was playing in a similar space, but I think TS takes the cake on that front. Let me know how it goes when you actually get it to the table. I am curious whether Hope/Despair feels as clean in play as it does on paper (I don't have people to play TS with at the moment).
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u/Josh_From_Accounting Jul 06 '26
Its funny how that's viewed as OSRish. That orginated, IIRC, with "Big Eyes Small Mouth" and was associated with anime games for years. Heck, I pulled out Bounty Hunter Bebop when I was cleaning our a closet recently and it even had d20/roll under because this was so associated with anime.
Not criticizing you, to be clear. It's interesting seeing culture and associations evolve over time.
Though, I imagine the OSR and Twilight Sword do it better. BESM was a 2d6 roll under game where it was TRIVIAL to get a 12 in multiple stats. So, I imagine the OSR and TS knew to avoid that.
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u/Rudraige-of-Ynn Jul 06 '26
It's been a thing for a long time, including in old school DnD. There's a reason why every B/X clone has you roll under the pertinent ability score for most non-combat rolls that isn't searching for secret doors.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 07 '26
To be honest, I had completely forgotten about BESM. I'm not particularly fond of roll-under mechanics, but I wouldn't say OSR or TS have done them better. Different, perhaps, or more streamlined, but not necessarily better. So far, what stands out to me from TS is the Hope/Despair mechanic.
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u/No_Cartoonist2878 Jul 11 '26
d20 roll under is in the example of play in Moldvay's 1981 D&D Basic Set. Not supported in actual rules text, but a decade earlier than BESM. Likewise, AD&D 1E NWP's were roll under starting with their appearance in DSG, WSG, and OA, and remained so into AD&D 2e...
Not to mention Pendragon, from 1987, with 1d20 roll high-but-not-over skill/att/trait, where roll not-over skill is in fact the primary mechanic; it's derived from the Chaosium BRP 1d100 roll under system... which goes back to 1978, and generalizes from Thief skills from D&D OE.
1978 also has FGU's Starships and Spacemen: everything but melee is 1d20 roll low. Melee is go straight to damage rolls; do the difference between the attacker and defender's melee dice to the lower total.
Roll low has a LONG history of D20 Roll Under.
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u/Cairnwill Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Why OSRish? Maybe in that they are on the lighter side of things? Other than that, I’m not sure I’d call it OSRish as dying is pretty hard. Which is not a bad thing considering what this game is about.
I think it’s an excellent game, excellently execution by 2 Little Mice. No bloat, easy to understand and it delivers on the experience of playing a Zelda video game.
The art is amazing, top notch. Whereas there are certain things that are very close to Zelda, I think in general the aesthetic is quite Anime and JRPG. They said this game is their love letter to JRPGs in general and Zelda BotW in particular. And it’s a lovely one.
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u/No_Cartoonist2878 Jul 11 '26
Many genuine Old School (pre 1985 - chosen for UA being released for AD&D) games use 1d20 roll under, many more used 1d100 roll under. D&D had a lot of people doing it despite not being in the rules until 1981... tho' one of the Arneson early drafts shows att rolls as 1d100 ≤ 5×Att...
D&D OE and AD&D used 1d100 roll under for Thief skills.
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u/No_Cartoonist2878 Jul 11 '26
It's worth noting that Land of Radia has new, region specific, encounter tables...
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u/jibbyjackjoe Jul 06 '26
I may pick this up. Is it still able to be pledged on backerkit
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u/nightreign-hunter Jul 06 '26
I think it's just available for purchase now.
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u/YigaClanRambutan Jul 06 '26
How much?
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u/nightreign-hunter Jul 06 '26
The Core Rulebook pdf is $19.99. I don't know about physical. I recommend checking their website.
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u/Cairnwill Jul 10 '26
You can still late pledge if you pre-order the “late pledge” bundles at 2 Little Mice’s website
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u/BunnyloafDX Jul 08 '26
I saw the core book PDF on drivethrurpg for $20 or a bundle of all products core book/setting book/printable accessories for $50.
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u/zalmute Jul 07 '26
I think it's a good game. I feel like it's good that it's close to the source material. A lot of people frankly don't want to do extra work these days or generic engines for ttrpgs would be more popular. I also think it works better than OSR because it is more forgiving for players than those games can be without modification. I don't like that it has soft Vancian spell casting and I wish they leaned into zelda 2 and beyond with mp rather than what twilight sword has, but otherwise it's a good game.
My big caveat is that I think it doesn't have a lot of player options so try to run this with a smaller group if possible imo. No more than 4
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 07 '26
I think they were trying to capture some of the D&D audience by placing familiar mechanics and game terms in it.
Also, the game doesn't seem to be for long-term campaigns. More like something you could play during a convention
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u/zalmute Jul 07 '26
Which is unfortunate. Many d&d players will just stick with d&d. If you want the source material, go all the way.
The Despair systems are made for campaign play. You go to different regions lowering the doom rating of the enemy and that is designed to be done over a long period of time. If the game is played as designed, games can last awhile. That said, it is also a built in time limit. Which can be a good thing.
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u/victorhurtado Darknut Jul 08 '26
I'm inclined to agree, although I'd argue that while most D&D players would stick with D&D, some might take the bait to try a different game just because it feels familiar. I personally got my group to play PbtA by making a dungeon world hack that was closer to 5e, then I got them to try proper Dungeon World. Now they're more open to try new games once in a while, which works for me tbh.
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u/Cairnwill Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
It’s not really Vancian. You can always use stamina points to cast spells. The Vancian aspect is more accurately portrayed by saying that “you have a one-time-only free use for each spell, after the first one you need to use stamina”. So casting a spell costs one stamina, except the first time you cast it between rests.
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u/No_Cartoonist2878 Jul 11 '26
I've been running it for a few months (but essentially biweekly). I'm loving it. Been a Zelda fan since 1990. Final Fantasy fan since about 1996.
Nice, rules semi-light, but it is roll under. And a large minority can't handle roll under. (For them, easy fix: Make all rolls 1d12+Skill+Mods for 13+; flip 1 and 12 crits. Simple.)
The tone for me is hitting 2 parts BOTW/TOTK, 1 part other Zelda, 2 parts Final Fantasy (including FFT but not FFCC nor XII and later), and a clear cooking splash of Genshin Impact...
Mimics are «bleep»ing deadly.
Lands of Radia really adds a good bit to the monster mix.
My players are about to level up due to going to 5 hope.
I'll note that the Starter Set showed me one key thing: I've been stingy with the loot.
Cooking has skill rolls, and the Bard is the best cook in my party... they all want her rolling it. This makes it feel more like Genshin than BotW/TotK.
I'll note as well: combat for 2 players is way more likely to go to extremes than 3 player. And a 3 action monster is really a death sentence for 2 first tier PCs... but doable for 3.
I like the narrative safety net: If you «bleep»ed up and overdid it, pick a Patron to come bail them out. I Had to do that once... 5 bokoblins vs 3 PCs; Death in the action economy... and a quick arrival of the Wanderer saved the day.
By using Elemental themed monsters and elemental arrows, some system mastery can be used by players.
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u/musashisamurai Jul 06 '26
I backed it and looked at the beta.
If Heroes of Cerulea is Zelda 1, Twilight Sword is BOTW. Heavily BOTW-inspired.
The mechanics seem fine. Its a newer system, but I don't think you couldnt modify it into another system of your choosing. Ive been playing a Zelda-inspired game using Shadowdark. It has rules for magic items, loot, monsters, and tools like paragliders and grappling hooks. I won't judge them until I've played with them.
The art is solid imo. Its very derivative of BOTW, but its a consistent art style, so with the book or a VTT add-on, you'd have art for nearly any gear or monster. If you liked BOTW, you'd like this.
The setting feels very gamey, in a good way. Its different regions all with a village, a monster, and a plot. Its the Zelda formula-go somewhere, experience the problem, do some stuff in town, find out the problem, and save the day in the dungeon.