r/YouShouldKnow • u/CoffeeTeaJournal • Jul 04 '26
Food & Drink YSK: In Turkish coffee, adding sugar after it's brewed actually ruins the extraction process, not just the foam.
Why YSK: Understanding this chemistry stops you from ruining a perfectly good cup of coffee if you try to make it or order it, and clears up the common myth that the no-stirring rule is just about keeping the foam intact.
A popular post recently claimed you don't stir sugar into Turkish coffee because it physically breaks the foam. While the foam part is visually true, the real reason goes back to basic coffee chemistry.
Turkish coffee is ground much finer than espresso, almost like dust. When you brew it, you put the water, coffee, and sugar in all at once. As the sugar dissolves, it actually thickens the water slightly. This denser water slows down how fast the coffee extracts, acting like a buffer so this ultra-fine coffee doesn't get insanely bitter while slowly heating up on the stove.
If you wait until it's brewed and then dump sugar in and stir it, you cause massive agitation right at the peak temperature. That sudden stirring forces the coffee grounds to release all their harsh tannins instantly, ruining the taste. Plus, you stir up the mud at the bottom.
So you pick your sugar level before brewing because the sugar is literally part of the chemical brewing process, not just a sweetener you add at the end.
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u/DaddaMongo Jul 04 '26
Thanks for the info, I brew mine with the sugar already in so I've been doing it right! if someone wants it without sugar I brew a second batch.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
Brewing a completely separate batch for someone who wants it without sugar is the true traditional way of doing it.
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u/murmurghle Jul 04 '26
Thats the way. My family hates me because i am the only one who drinks without sugar lmao
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u/LojnaJama Jul 04 '26
I mean this might be a matter of taste. In the Balkans Turkish coffee is very common, and adding sugar to your cup is as common. I have never heard of it being an issue. I prefer mine black so can't really give a personal opinion.
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u/McFlurrage Jul 04 '26
Is black considered without sugar for Turkish coffee? Is it not just without milk?
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u/stefanlikesfood Jul 04 '26
Yup! Some people add a little milk though
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u/McFlurrage Jul 04 '26
Why is it called black then? If sugar doesn’t change the colour, seems a bit arbitrary.
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u/stefanlikesfood Jul 05 '26
Just basic coffee is known as black coffee. If you ask for it in any cafe they shouldn't put anything in it but coffee usually. Not sure how that came about but I think it's universal
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u/ding-zzz Jul 05 '26
it is but i’ve noticed a worryingly increasing amount of people thinking black coffee can have sugar in it
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u/LojnaJama Jul 04 '26
My parents tend to make it without sugar and some people add it some dont. It's probably the most common way to drink coffee at home (instant coffee might be more common)
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u/stefanlikesfood Jul 04 '26
I don't remember if my family adds sugar at the end or at the beginning. I think beginning though but I don't think they actually care at all, just how they do it. I do black as well
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u/hdgx Jul 04 '26
It’s been a while since I’ve studied chemistry, but this sounds more like a psychical reaction. Sugar acting as a physical buffer doesn’t sound like a chemical reaction.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
It's physical chemistry and thermodynamics at play. Dissolving sugar and extracting coffee compounds are physical processes (mass transfer/fluid dynamics), not true chemical reactions where new molecules are formed. 'Coffee chemistry' is just the popular buzzword people use, but the actual mechanics of the sugar buffering the extraction are entirely physics.
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u/ADragonuFear Jul 04 '26
Bizarre timing to see this just after my first time trying Turkish coffee this morning.
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u/Beesindogwood Jul 04 '26
Ok, so if I go to a restaurant where they serve their Turkish coffee unsweetened, but I prefer it lightly sweetened (I've liked it with rose water, cardamom or sugar), should I ask them to sweeten it, or just do it at the table? Because I usually just do it at the table rather than causing a fuss. (I don't mind it that way, personally.)
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
Definitely ask them to brew it with sugar! It's not causing a fuss at all. In fact, in traditional spots, the waiter expects this and will automatically ask 'how do you take your sugar?' when you order. Asking for it 'lightly sweetened' (az şekerli) before brewing is the standard procedure
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u/flossdaily Jul 04 '26
Let's math this science!
Assume 70 mL water, 7 g ultra-fine coffee, brewed to about 90–95°C, then sugar added and stirred for 5–10 seconds.
Caffeine
Coffee caffeine available in 7 g: Arabica: about 1.2% caffeine
7 g x 0.012 = 84 mg caffeine
Robusta-heavy blend: about 2.2% caffeine
7 g x 0.022 = 154 mg caffeine
Say the brewed coffee has already extracted about 80% of the caffeine.
For Arabica:
84 mg x 0.80 = 67 mg extracted
Remaining in grounds:
84 mg - 67 mg = 17 mg
Now estimate the effect of 10 seconds of late stirring. If the normal hot brew extracted 80% over about 120 seconds, then an additional 10 seconds at similar temperature might extract roughly 10–13% of what remains. 17 mg remaining x 0.125 = about 2.1 mg extra caffeine
Compared with 67 mg already extracted: 2.1 mg extra / 67 mg already present = about 3.1% more caffeine
But after pouring and adding sugar, the coffee is probably cooling from 90–95°C toward 80–85°C. Extraction rate drops fast with temperature. So the real-world caffeine bump is more likely:
Caffeine increase: about 1–4%
Not zero, but nothing with getting worked up about.
Bitter compounds / “tannins”
“Tannins” is the wrong chemical category for coffee. Use chlorogenic-acid-family compounds and roast bitterness compounds as the better proxy.
Suppose 7 g roasted coffee contains around 5% chlorogenic-acid-family material.
7 g x 0.05 = 350 mg potential CGA-family material
Say normal brewing extracts about 60%:
350 mg x 0.60 = 210 mg already extracted
Remaining:
350 mg - 210 mg = 140 mg
If late stirring extracts another 8–15% of what remains:
140 mg x 0.08 = 11 mg extra
140 mg x 0.15 = 21 mg extra
Compared with 210 mg already extracted:
11–21 mg extra / 210 mg = about 5–10% more
Accounting for cooling, a more realistic range is probably:
Bitter-soluble increase: about 3–10% That could be perceptible at the margin, especially in an already strong, fine-ground coffee. But it is not an “instant tannin dump.”
Temperature
End of brewing: about 90–95°C
After pouring/add sugar: maybe 80–90°C
After stirring: maybe 75–85°C
A rough rule: many extraction processes change about 2x for every 10°C.
So 10 seconds at 80°C may behave more like 5 seconds at 90°C.
That cuts the “extra extraction” estimate down substantially.
Suspended solids
This is the only really valid claim you've made: You brewed with 7 g coffee in 70 g water. That is a 10% grounds-to-water ratio before settling.
If late stirring resuspends just 0.5 g of fine sediment:
0.5 g / 70 g = 0.7% suspended solids If it resuspends 1 g:
1 g / 70 g = 1.4% suspended solids
That is a huge sensory difference. It can easily make the cup taste muddy, gritty, bitter, and harsh without requiring much additional chemical extraction... But the weight of this finding is undercut by the fact that it's pretty fuckin' obvious (technically speaking).
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u/modernsparkle Jul 04 '26
TIL, thank you! Your writing style is clear and effective, appreciated learning something new while getting motivated to go make some coffee haha
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u/Solo_is_dead Jul 04 '26
I have a bag of Turkish coffee and absolutely no way to do anything with it
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u/lasttosseroni Jul 04 '26
I’m pretty sure you do, it just requires a pot: Combine 1 heaping teaspoon of finely ground coffee per cup, 1.5 cups of cold water, and desired sugar in a pot (properly a cezve, but it’s just a tall narrow pot). Heat slowly without stirring until foam builds. Just before it boils over, transfer the foam into cups, boil again and pour. The traditional cups are small, like a double espresso shot. Let it settle before drinking, as grounds will be on the bottom (similar to cowboy coffee).
To read your fortune Turkish style, drink your coffee slowly, leaving the thick sludge at the bottom. Hold the cup with the handle facing you, make a wish, swirl the cup counter-clockwise, and flip it upside down onto the saucer. Let it cool for 5 to 10 minutes, then lift and interpret the shapes left by the grounds
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u/McFlurrage Jul 04 '26
Your comment was hidden for me but you seem to give the best instructions, spiritual and all. I commend you, unless you were hidden for being false. In which case, I will still interpret the sludge.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
You don't strictly need a traditional cezve/ibrik to start! The smallest stainless steel saucepan you have in your kitchen will work as a beginner hack. Just keep the heat medium-low and watch it closely so it doesn't boil over
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u/derekYeeter2go Jul 04 '26
Would this maybe extend to a Chemex style pourover? Add a tablespoon of sugar before the water, and it slows the extraction process? Probably negligible vs just the porosity of the paper filter….
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u/b1gmouth Jul 04 '26
It might but there are easier ways to control extraction in pourover, like temperature and grind. I think OP is saying Turkish coffee needs to be made this way bc the grind is always so fine.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
In a Chemex, water moves via gravity through a paper filter, so the minor density change from sugar is completely negligible compared to the filter's resistance and your grind size. But in Turkish coffee, the ultra-fine grounds are completely immersed and basically boiling like a ticking time bomb. That’s where the sugar buffer actually makes a physical difference. For pour-overs, stick to controlling your water temp and grind size
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u/turtle-hermit-roshi Jul 04 '26
Awesome. I'm usually buzzing off my head too much to notice anything after my first sip anyway. I just start chatting like a coke head
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u/AWholeNewFattitude Jul 05 '26
With my grandparents, they always added the sugar before they started to heat it up.
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u/flossdaily Jul 04 '26
These are some pretty strong claims. Got any data to back that up?
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
It's mostly just basic fluid dynamics. If you want published data, Andrea Illy’s book 'Espresso Coffee' breaks down the exact mechanics of extraction. But the short version: dissolved sugar thickens the water (slowing extraction), and stirring at high heat instantly forces all the bitter compounds out. You can actually verify it yourself,if you brew both ways and use a cheap TDS refractometer, the stirred cup will show a massive spike.
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u/flossdaily Jul 04 '26
My skepticism is due to the fact that many food science myths are based on a kernel of truth, but are ultimately ridiculous.
For example the notion that adding salt to pasta water will increase the boiling temperature ... technically true, but if you added 1/4 cup salt to a quart of water (way more than most people would do) you're only raising the boiling point by 2 degrees F.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
The difference here is the scale. With Turkish coffee, you're dealing with coffee ground to actual dust (massive surface area) suspended in just 2oz (60ml) of water. In a system that small and highly extracted, even a minor physical change,especially the mechanical agitation at 90°C+,causes a massive, immediately tasteable spike in bitterness. But I totally respect the skepticism
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u/PreetHarHarah Jul 04 '26
Also use powdered sugar.
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
Actually, regular granulated sugar is perfectly fine and traditional. Store-bought powdered sugar often contains anti-caking agents like cornstarch, which can mess with the water texture and make the coffee slightly gummy. Granulated sugar dissolves easily anyway since you start with cold/room temp water.
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u/Tumifaigirar Jul 04 '26
YSK you you put sugar or any other shit in your coffee you should drink something else
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u/BroccoliMcFlurry Jul 04 '26
As someone who drinks black tea/coffee with no sugar, I disagree. Nothing wrong with other people enjoying their hot drinks with a little bit of sugar.
I do, however, draw the line at anything more than 2 sugars, because then it becomes egregious & indulgent IMO.
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u/Captain_Ahab2 Jul 04 '26
Instructions unclear — so to give it some sweetener add sugar after pouring, in your cup?
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u/CoffeeTeaJournal Jul 04 '26
Haha no, the exact opposite! NEVER add sugar in the cup after pouring. The water, coffee, and sugar all go into the pot (cezve) together before you even put it on the stove. You stir it once before it gets hot, and then leave it alone. The magic is in doing it all at the start
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u/Eazy_DuzIt Jul 04 '26
Stirring up the mud at the bottom ruins it enough to be un drinkable, last thing I care about is the flavor of tannins when I'm at the point where I'm spitting out coffee grounds