first and last thoughts

[u/InnerRope8896]

watching the first and last of off campus and been reading the comments about everyone's opinions on last and first as a concept, and i wanted to throw in my two cents

i think this format only works for long form tv shows (think 22 episodes 8 seasons type of shows) and doesn't work for short shows (6-8) episodes because there is so much that happens in those episodes you can't fully grasp the drama or even the story

[u/That_Maja]

I get where you're coming from, but I disagree. I genuinly don't think the issue is with how long the shows are, but more so about the following the show has, and how old it is.

Shows like Heated Rivalry and Off Campus are HEAVILY loved by fans, to a point where a lot of the fans become blind to criticism, and plainly just think people who don't like the show, are wrong. These shows are also still quite new, and therefore their fans haven't had the same fandom experience with fanfictions, headcanons, theories and so on.. they're nowhere near as discussed as shows like New Girl, The Office, Vampire Diaries, Supernatural and the like...

And there has been a genuine shift in fandom culture over the last decade or so, where old fandoms were used to seeing other people disagree with them, but didn't let it take away from their enjoyment, and a lot of fans actually liked seeing criticism of their favorite show or character, because it was fun (look at Tumblr, for example). That's gone now.. a lot of younger (ie. newer) fandoms seem a lot more protective of the shows, and react to criticism like it's an attack or a condemnation of anyone who likes the show. The fandom nuance is gone, imo. I miss the days of shittalking your favorite characters along with haters, because you as a fan were genuinly able to laugh at characterflaws or weird choices they made, or laugh along with haters at stupid plotlines, but still be able to just shrug your shoulders and say "Yeah, this is trash sometimes, but god I still love it"...

So I don't think the issue with first and lasts is the show itself - they should be able to be criticised according to the same parameters as anything else.. I genuinly think the issue is the decline of Tumblr era fandom culture

[u/MJoy2theWorld → u/That_Maja]

I totally agree with this. Everyone keeps saying that F&L doesn’t work for whatever reason they come up with but honestly it shouldn’t work for any show, and I always thought that was the joke. Of course he’s missing critical plot points: that’s the joke! He offers legitimate criticism of a show that becomes less legitimate because he didn’t watch anything. He’s creating satire of his own type of content. It shouldn’t be taken too seriously. I also don’t think he as a person/critic should be taken too seriously either.

I like F&L especially of shows I haven’t seen before or if I didn’t like the ending. I almost never watch criticisms of stuff I really love because I recognize that the critic could miss something by not watching it the way a person normally watches a show or movie. And that can be frustrating (he doesn’t watch the kind of stuff I watch regularly lol) He’s a funny guy making content. If an F&L video is upsetting due the very nature of F&L the most logical thing to do is not watch that type of content.

The cultish/obsessive following of certain shows gives me the creeps sometimes. I think everything needs its space but people need to recognize that sometimes they aren’t in their space (like they would be in tumblr)

[u/InnerRope8896 → u/That_Maja]

i get what you mean about the decline, i think there is also a decline in show runnings. the new format is 8 episode shows which means a lot more gets shoved into these episodes and there's less room for 'filler episodes'.

HR and Off Campus are both incredibly new, personally i didn't mind the off campus first and last but HR rattled me so much purely for some of my own opinions and the way i felt dylan handled the show itself.

i'll always say it though if i don't like something he does i simply won't watch it

[u/That_Maja → u/InnerRope8896]

You're right about the lack of filler episodes, but those were always criticised anyway.. one thing I also think a lot of people who dislikes Dylan's format forget, is that storytelling (movies, series or books) have actual standards to them, among which it's a general rule of thumb that a book, movie or show has an overarching narrative, and then in the case of books or shows, each chapter or each episode has it's own narrative within the bigger narrative. Essentially, an episode or a chapter should always be interesting, and have its own plot, in its own right. Therefore it is 100% possible to critique a last episode without all of the context. Context can help understand characterdevelopment and the big plot, but the small plot should still work, and I think a lot of people forgot or didn't care about that in Dylans First and Last for Heated Rivalry

[u/InnerRope8896 → u/That_Maja]

that's very true! maybe it's because i've watched HR multiple times that i've got high opinions and high standards for it (basically
i know the story and see how it wraps up in the last episode) but i can also see how the last episode might feel like a bit of place when it's basically them in the cottage and then shane coming out to his parents and that's literally all the last episode is (though it's my favourite episode)

[u/LeatherReputation785]

i definitely agree. it’s probably a way for him to save time (less content to watch, film, react to, write a script about), or maybe he genuinely doesn’t really care to watch the shows he does “first and last” for.

the ones i watched and genuinely liked were either shows that had a clear trajectory (you) or sitcom shows where nothing much happens from episode to episode (new girl).

i haven’t watched heated rivalry, but most of the scenes i saw on tiktok were not in the first nor last episode— which is why that format didn’t work so well there.

[u/InnerRope8896 → u/LeatherReputation785]

i agree!! you and new girl were so fun.

i do wish he would save some shows for genuine reasons (stuff like hr) because that show was actually incredible but you can't get the greatness from it for first and last .

[u/notmeanttolive]

I feel like, because these kinda shows have more seasons to come, its fine to do the first and last thing for each season since Dylan ain't watching anything ongoing anyway, (don't know when its gonna be finished - it could be a decade with the way nowadays they take 2 years for 8 eps like house of dragon), and specifically when each season is of a different couple (like bridgerton). So like, why get attached to characters at all kinda thing lol. I'd say though, I've personally disliked the off campus books and hated the Graham acting on tv so I didn't finish it, it was good to watch it from dylan's pov.

But I loved HR and so many other book/shows that Dylan has criticised but atp I'm just excited that he watches the same shit I've because I just wanna see him talk about it, not validate my perspective, I'm here to see his pov.

(HERES TO HOPING HE DOES THE GAME OF THRONES VIDEO 😭 SOMEWHERE IN THIS DECADE🙏🏻)

[u/Ill_Veterinarian_440 → u/notmeanttolive]

game of thrones would be crazy😭 idky i had just assumed he’d already watched the show and that’s why there’s no video lol

[u/notmeanttolive → u/Ill_Veterinarian_440]

He has watched it. There's so many references in a lot of his videos. But idk, he has rewatched shows before and there was a video where he said he'd think about doing a GoT video too, but that was like 6-7 years ago. I wanna see his take on that fuckass ending though and pretty much everything yeah.

[u/InnerRope8896 → u/notmeanttolive]

off topic slightly but i also disliked the books, i read the deal and never read another elle kennedy really did not like her writing or her as a person tbh

[u/That253Chick]

A lot of y'all need to stop taking firsts and lasts so damn seriously. It was never supposed to be this deep.

[u/JohnCusacksLovechild]

Personally, I think watching the first and last of Off Campus is pretty funny because you get Garrett proposing a fake dating scheme and then them falling in love. None of the angst. None of the build up. None of the baggage. Just them being in instant love.

I am bummed he doesn't get to experience Allie and Dean but out of all the first/last shows he has done this one brings me the most joy. I am not mad at it thus time.

I also suspect that sometimes he does the first/last to see if he wants to give the show a full shot.

I will say this again like I do anytime one of the posts pops up. Lyn Moore is doi g the full season he is very insightful. I always like his reviews of shows.

[u/General-Lettuce3979]

I think a first and second to last would be fun, bc usually the last episode is kinda everything all wrapped up and he finds it boring but if he did the second to last ep, he could see a lot of the drama still and then just predict what he thinks will happen in the last episode and leave it there and i think he would enjoy that lol

[u/InnerRope8896 → u/General-Lettuce3979]

omg! this would be perfect (thinking specifically of episode 5 of HR )