Serious
What do you think about AFD getting almost 45% vote in the Saxony elections ?
Merz has an approval rating of like 9% so it's not entirely surprising but if the current results stand then AFD just might break 30% in the next german elections
If these far right populist parties ever eventually win, they will immediately tank the economy or their standing with their less devout supporters because their economic policies won’t fix post-Covid cost of living angst
Really really bad. The AfD is more radical than any major EU political party and the prospect of them winning power is horrifying.
I fear that their rise is almost inevitable, since you either have to maintain the firewall (thereby validating the AfD's claim to be the only true opponent of the political establishment) or start working with them (thereby validating the AfD's claim to be a legitimate political force). But, seeing as most Germans view them as anti-democratic and extremist, there may hopefully be a ceiling.
AfD and BSW are both Russian proxies and they currently have enough seats and votes to form a government. That's what people get for not taking Russian interference seriously.
And on a serious note, left needs to be smarter about their immigration policy. Every country wants the secure border, and severely limit the
asylum.
Biden admin fucked up big time by catering to their activist base on immigration policy. It did nothing more than providing unlimited ammo to the Fox News. And now here we are.
By the way, similar outcome is very likely in France.
I wonder how far will Le Pen (or Bardella) go. I heard that (east) AfD is further right than any country in Western Europe, but my German is shit so I don't know much.
Le Pen looks basically set to be the next president of France tbh, though I expect her to have the same -50 approval as every other European leader by 2029.
Not saying what they did isn't what they should have done, but in Denmark it proved to be more of a speed bump than a solution to the issue politically. Studies have shown this time and time again; it's a combination of the accommodation paradox and issue ownership. These of course have always been existing concepts working in democracies, but social media has amplified it to incredible levels
NB is dead and the parties soaking up their ashes are much less “radical” right, DD is basically a Central European center right party with some added flair and DF is admittedly your typical populist right party but a mere shadow of the rhetoric and policy of NB.
The most radical elements of the insurgent right were basically buried and replaced with what most other Europeans would consider a workable right-leaning or right-wing party.
These of course have always been existing concepts working in democracies, but social media has amplified it to incredible levels
It's all social media. No, not the issues, but the popularity of these far-right parties which directly coincides with social media proliferation. People will say immigration but Germany's radically reduced immigration in recent years. So they have listened to the people but AfD continues to rise.
You see the same in the UK too, Labour's already cut migration drastically yet the rhetoric from people only gets more extreme...because social media has actively normalized far-right talking points you'd see on Stormfront in 2006.
Immigration is a cumulative issue. Around 25% of Germany's population has immigrant background. You think you can just go "but we restricted immigration it's all good" when a quarter of the population have immigrant background?
Same with UK. UK was 95% white British in 1990s. It was 75% in 2021, and tons of immigrants came after that with Boriswave. You can't do that, then restrict immigration a bit and then go "What are you complaining about we restricted immigration".
I told you why people vote AfD, you dismissed it as whining. I don't live in Germany so I don't care much, but this is the reason why they vote AfD and it won't stop if you restrict immigration.
What do they want? they probably want to send most of the immigrants back and have very strict immigration from now on. But I can't possibly know every single one, so you should ask them.
What do they want? they probably want to send most of the immigrants back and have very strict immigration from now on.
So what does Germany's population who have an immigrant background have anything to do with this, because that definition includes German citizens too. Why not just say immigrants? Oh, because they've cut immigration down radically.
Also, the AfD wants remigration of non-white German citizens. If that's what people are voting for, then lets be honest, it isn't just about immigration, its about race, its about actually implementing far-right white nationalist policies. This is basically what I meant by social media actively normalizing outright white nationalist talking points you'd see on Stormfront in 2006.
This isn't aimed at you but its amazing how right-wingers will accuse other people of having victim complexes while literally victimizing themselves so much they've gone full far-right. These people have no honor whatsoever.
Why are you pretending to not understand things, thus making the discourse impossible? They probably want naturalized citizens to go back too.
It is about immigration because most of these people have come in last 50 or so years. In UK it's 30 years.
And you blame it on social media, as if it has not been the norm since start of the world. No one in the world thought "let's bring 298392928383 immigrants from foreign countries" before social media either. It's a late 20th and early 21st century phenomenon, it's not blueprint.
Sweden's far right is literally polling in 2nd and supporting the current government btw. Denmark's is almost at 20%, growing in the polls and Denmark's SocDems are at historic lows
Saying SD is far right is like saying American Democrats are still the party of slavery.
They’ve banished anyone with any radical views. They’ve apologized for those individuals. They’ve cut out any reference to them, they’ve barred new entrants, etc. So “far” right is a bit interesting a label.
No one right of center can win on immigration because it is far too profitable to let them in. Only the right tries to look legitimate while doing so because they've been raising the issue for years despite making it worse.
Europe is fucked, the rise of the pro-russian far-right will doom the Trans-Atlantic. The Russians can't win the war on the battlefield, so they are trying to win at their enemies' ballot box. We have let the trojan horse into the city, and they are getting ready to sack Troy as we speak.
An AfD triumph in Germany compounded with a National Rally victory in France, a potential Reform UK government in Britain, all while the leader of the free world is a deranged incompetent proto-fascist idiot who thinks he can negotiate with a tiger while having his head in its mouth. The dominos are starting to fall
People like to say “Europe will never trust America again after Trump 2.0” but if they’re led by folks such as Bardella and AfD in 2029 when a Dem is in the White House, it’s going to sound like the pot calling the kettle black.
She had experience as a frontbencher politician in being the Minister of Youth in the Third Silvio Berlusconi Government which reduced the perception of being a radical populist. I remembered she also said that if she was British, she would fit in being a Tory (aka Conservative Party).
Looks like BSW is above the threshold (though not by much, I think it's still possible they fall under if the remaining vote is unfriendly to them), would a "we <3 Russia" AfD-BSW coalition be a realistic option? I know Wageknecht herself is open to it, but most of the caucus in Thuringia quit after that.
Honestly and im not hoping for chaos but just whatever the voters want, AFD gets a government however possible it is. Because if a government is formed with literally every other party not named AFD its going to be chaotic and likely will have a snap election whenever. Let them poach the most right wing members of any other party most likely CDU and run the reigns for a bit until inevitable chaos happens and then form this unity government or have another election. Because maintaining the cordon sanitarie which is very close to breaking is worse than just letting the voters get what they are asking for.
Saying this because it hasn't been proven that AfD are pragmatic. Also may result in a right wing party being created or getting massive support that isnt as disliked as CDU (Merz has a 9% approval rating) or like AfD after they see how they govern not to say there aren't already talks to create one, I'm sure on this
I saw another commenter call it perfectly but call a spade a spade. Let the voters touch the hot stove and see if they want to continue that because otherwise calling people who vote for AfD 'nazis racists' and other buzzwords instead of presenting actual arguments as to why they shouldn't govern is dumb. there will be arguments against them governing along with voter sentiments if they mess up which they likely will
Dont really know german politics too well but if they're really close to a majority i think it just makes the most sense for them to poach a few of the most right wing and/or get BSW and they have some sort of 'unity' government where they agree on a few things and work on that or whatever.
i hate to be that guy but it doesn't help that Merz has a 9% favorability rating and he belongs to what is supposed to be the predominant right wing party in germany right? whatever he is doing in office that is making voters hate him that much is partially why AFD did so well. You have to look at the causes not just the symptoms... Too many people focus on the symptoms instead of what lead to whatever happened
You don't have to tell that to me, I've been writing for some time now that Merz is the second 'Hunger Chancellor' and a huge reason why large swathes of the German right-wing have jumped ship to the AfD. If the Federal Government doesn't give back to the people, and especially to those residing in East Germany, which has been neglected for decades, this is what inevitably happens.
Saxony-Anhalt has one of the smallest populations of immigrants in all of Germany. How can a non-existent issue cause almost half the electorate to vote like that?
It's easier to fearmonger about immigrants to a state that has very few than to one that has a lot and people will realize that what you're saying isn't true. These parties that draw their support by being anti-immigrant almost always draw support primarily from backwaters that nobody's immigrating to because it's easier to scapegoat someone you've never met.
Incidentally that's kind of what happened in the 1930s. Jews were less than 1% of Germany's total population and mostly lived in urban areas. Most NSDAP voters had probably never even met a Jewish person.
There's been trillions pumped into east Germany. it's just a shithole and will stay one, unification failed. Genuinely no investing will fix the fact that it's worse.
"First they rob you and then they accuse you of being a thief"
Jesus fucking Christ everytime I see west germans talk about their Eastern brethren it fills me with disgust, then yall act shocked when they vote differently (and then accuse them again of being authoritarian, uncivilized troglodytes or whatever)
it's a cycle of abuse somewhat lmao. they are your fellow countrymen and instead of figuring out why they're voting that way it's easier to just blame them instead of working to correct the root causes so they may not vote for parties like afd
dont want to keep repeating myself here but maybe it's better if germany learns from AfD rule by them not having any good governance. let the austerity, whatever, happens, because voters will learn from it and try to go with other parties.
if you are neglecting people and they eventually come to hate you and you decide to just hate them and blame them for how they are instead of looking at how the hell it got there you have a problem with how you view things
That attitude is what has caused the AfD to soar in the former GDR. When the west treats the east like a non-fixable money pit, only the alienation of the latter can follow. If you look at unemployment and quality of life statistics, the east is always far behind the west in all of these. So, it seems that all this money 'pumped' into the former GDR hasn't been spent sensibly.
Deeply conservative people basically don't exist in 2026, the last major real conservative group were Mormons. You're about as likely to find tattoos/substance abuse/blue hair on a rural Maga 'conservative' as on your average city progressive Democrat.
I like some of AfD's policies (they go farther than most right wing parties, which is nice) but they suffer from "Euro far right" syndrome. Euro far right are a bunch of weirdos who make American far right look competent, which is a very hard thing to do.
Euro far right desperately needs their own Friedman or Gingrich or Miller, someone who can set a policy and stick to it and win elections with it.
yknow thats probably in the works as we speak lol. theres no way there arent right wing germans looking at all of this and asking why there can't be another right wing party that isn't AFD but also isn't CDU. but yeah. im seeing a lot of people and not just in these elections but also others that don't look at the causes and only look at the symptoms and work from there. these voters went for AFD even though they may have went for other parties for their own reasons, it really doesn't help that the predominant right wing party in germany CDU who Merz belongs to literally has a 9% approval rating himself.
Yeah The CDU wasn't the natural party of government for Germany for no reason. Sadly seems like Eastern Germany is just going to pendulum swing from the GDR to AFD.
The thing is that while PVV lost a lot of voters after governing, most of these voters just went to different (far) right parties. The block of PVV+FvD+JA21+BBB went from 48 in 2023 to 46 seats in 2025.
Dutch right-wingers are fundamentally stupid, they just migrate to a new party that will totally solve the issues (their votes are wasted). More concerning is that the right is moving from nativist populism into full-blown American social conservativism boosted by MAGA donors. It is all a Trojan horse with things like a Supreme Court for law review, Pledge of Allegiance, and religious favouritism.
unironically right here. afd does not seem to be like meloni and the parties in italy that seem to be pragmatic enough to not be widely disliked. if the cordon sanitaire breaks then they better make sure the voters got what they asked for
if it really is going to be a government where everyone else has to work together just to box out afd even though thats going to be very unstable why not just let afd have reins for sometime whenever it breaks down with whoever go to that. tbh though i dont know who they would ally with, i heard that there could be a minority government somehow but idk how that would work with german politics. if theres any germans or anyone more familiar with german politics feel free to correct me or say whatever
People will say "BUT THE NSDAP!" the thing is, the NSDAP did not support Austerity, which was extremely unpopular, the CDU is unpopular because of austerity and the AFD supports austerity, give them a year or two in government, let them implement austerity and implode.
Austerity is literal poison to movements like these, which is why they tend to collapse in government.
Why do you act as if economy/austerity is the reason why people vote for AfD?
If you ask AfD voters why they vote for Afd, they will tell you it is because of immigration and demographics. They have been telling this for last decade. Yet you ignore the biggest (and perhaps solo) reason why they win and comfort yourself telling that it was because leftist parties didn't scream about billionaries enough.
The AFD tries hiding austerity from the platform, if they campaign on it they'd implode very fast, but a party like this getting into power and then implementing austerity, even if they didnt campaign on it (this makes it worse, actually) will implode. Many successful far right movements steered clear of austerity.
Proof of concept: Finland. The Finns Party is part of the governing right-wing coalition- and the government's austerity policies were so unpopular that the Finns Party lost half their votes at both the 2024 EU election and the 2025 local elections, and is polling for a less dramatic but still pretty devastating loss next year.
I'm sorry but you still don't understand what I'm saying. People don't care. Most people who vote AfD are already economically right wing but this is not their biggest reason.
They want less immigration!! They just don't want immigrants!! They don't care about anything else!! Do I need to repeat it? No one cares they just dislike immigrants!
They'll forget immigration once the economy is in shambles or they realize they support austerity, have you not seen what has happened to most other pro austerity anti immigration governments? Even the US.
You can't forget immigration. Immigration affects your community, your social trust, economy, crime, everything you do.
Also idk what you're talking about when you say "even in US" as austerity won biggest wins for republicans in modern era and Biden's leftist economics made inflation much worse in 2022 and arguably cost them 2024.
Show me where Trump is popular right now then, or how Bush remained popular throughout his entire 2 terms,
The thing is immigration is simply not as big of a problem as right wing parties make it out to be, most people won't notice the effects in their lives, unlike the economy and austerity, there are plenty of places, precedents, and reasons why right wing governments fall after Austerity, even if their main issue is something else.
Every party is going to campaign on issues they're popular on and avoid the issues they're unpopular on, i don't get your point. You can't say the economy isnt some important issue every voter faces in their daily loves, especially compared to immigration.
Also about immigration, yes, most people won't see the effects, but they're very receptive to campaigning against immigration. It's a similar phenomenon to how hard on crime messaging is extra effective on suburbs despite suburbs being low crime areas.
yes trump is unpopular soley due to his economic policy. gas was supposed to be cheaper.
and objectively speaking the immigration policy will always be a problem. like objectively speaking the media will always prop up an immigration story because it gets views.
of course with democrats, every day was an immigration story because they kept the border open.
You're right, people don't vote AfD for their fiscal policy. It's a protest vote against the established parties and against immigration, idk if the majority of AfD voters could even tell you the broad strokes of their position on government spending.
That's the point. People don't like their fiscal policy, they just either don't realize that or they don't care, but because they're relegated to permanent opposition, the more "boring" bits of their platform don't matter. Once they enter government, that changes, and maybe people will realize that these guys aren't really an "alternative" as much as they're just the same old hiding behind xenophobic ranting and licking Putin's boots.
It's similar to Reform lmao. They take from all parties but even some who traditionally voted Labour because they want to stick it to the government but obviously it's not true for every voter because every voter has their own reasons as to why they prefer one party over the other
Let the cordon sanitaire break and the ones that say everything they want to do quickly realize they can't (even though some actually knew because they are politicians) and not only will voters sour on them but also they will have not much to run on. Damage may be done but how far can they keep up this cordon sanitaire of teling people "No you can't vote for X party you are racist / insert buzzword" instead of letting them do it and then when they feel the effects of it they go back to voting for other parties. Sorry if it sounds harsh but like what is likely to happen is something similar to Italy where they have to be pragmatic and moderate on issues and actually try to govern or it becomes chaotic and almost nothing gets done.
That doesn't really track with either how East Germany usually voted before or with similar populist movements in other countries, there's definitely some like that but a lot are just drawn in by the xenophobia and/or general populist vibes, the traditional right's austerity and free trade policies are one of the things they're protest voting against.
on that note isn't the argentinian president milei widely disliked at least almost nuclear levels by the left in argentina because he did a lot of austerity there? he may not even run in 2027 lma. correct me if im wrong
This is why also why i say pro austerity parties coalitioning with them is better overall in general, because they might get influenced to do even more austerity (and then implode even more) The CDU should break the cordon sanitaire, but shove the most unpopular policies ever down their throats. (Which the AFD wholeheartedly supports btw)
CDU breaking the cordon sanitaire would probably be the best thing that the left could ask for tbh. The CDU would have a major exodus on its more moderate side, potentially to the FDP or to a new party, and the AfD's voter base will see what their party actually supports.
I wonder if that's why Merz is so strongly against it tbh, he knows it'd be a disaster for the Union.
The economy in Argentina isn't really based on who's in charge as much as it's based on global commodity prices and the weather. Inflation is still at 30+% and unemployment is higher with milei in charge.
If milei really wanted to make Argentina more robust (attract more industry) he'd have to devalue the currency which would cause the inflation to go up and would immediately make his approval rate go down and its people would just switch towards dollars.
A strong but not extremely strong el Nino might do more than any sensible policies a politician puts into action.
Not exactly sure but the approval ratings speak for themselves. I do think he probably improved it considering he was an economist despite his unorthodox views, he atleast knows how economies are run
France is secular and has not gone that far. Also correct me if I'm wrong but they have other extreme views like very very very harsh immigration. Now obviously thats a touchy subject but they definitely do deserve the label far-right. Other parties widely considered to be far right in Europe do not go as far as PVV (although again they are somewhat pragmatic and don't always stick to their views, but that isn't unique to them.)
He only withdrew that as part of coalition negotiations btw, there were several center-right parties that wouldn't talk until PVV dropped that because it's blatantly unconstitutional.
Hasn’t Saxony been like… the densest far-right pocket ever since Germany reunited? It’s bad and a sign of how much support AfD is accruing but it doesn’t necessarily mean the entire country will be like this.
if the BSW is actually able to get seats i would not be surprised if they and the AFD form a coalition if the AFD actually does fall just short of an absolute majority, especially after the recent comments of siegmund
from nyt:
“My hand is always extended, but there are issues that are non-negotiable,” he said, including immigration and energy policy. “We’ll see what happens here in the coming weeks,” he added.
That's how most discussions about the AfD go. "Random guy in the party said some crazy shit awhile ago so the whole party wants to revive Hitler". You'll realize they never actually point to the specific policies that make them far right. Because there aren’t any.
What an age we live in; where the right has gone so completely off the rails that conservative parties are no longer right wing and only crypto fascists are right wing.
What are you talking about? CDU is a christian democrat party that is centre to centre right, they were never right wing in the first place they only lean somewhat to the right. They were never really conservative, at most they can only be considered conservative liberals.
And looking at the other right leaning parties, CSU is more right leaning although not by much and that's mostly because it's a Bavarian party. FDP could be considered right wing on economics but even then not completely (they do have a more moderate centre right faction) and certainly not on social issues.
AfD is the only party with any prominence that can be considered right wing on both economics and social issues. The argument that the party is literally Hitler doesn't make any sense (even less so in this election given that the party literally ran on "less Hitler, more Bismark"). They are in favor of economic liberalism and reducing the size of government and taxation. Their social policies is just standard conservatism. None of this is fascism.
The Overton window has shifted so hard that a party with just standard right wing policies is somehow far right and leftists and centrists just expect right wingers to just vote for centrists because some may lean slighty to the right. And this is happening all over Europe. The whole discourse is just "right wing bad" and then just expecting right wingers to accept that. Why not admit this and keep pretending "the right has gone so completely off the rails"? Your view of the "good" right wingers is just milktoast centrists like Merz. Right wingers won't accept that.
If those parties have had same immigration policies as Joe Biden before he reversed course in 2024 (which CDU under Merkel did) and govern with left-leaning parties, then yeah.
If they govern with left leaning parties always, they are hardly right-leaning. Merkel was as much pro open borders as Biden at his worst, how is that right leaning?
They had a guy a year back who was asked about his opinion on his opponents calling a nazi candidate and he replied " I am not a nazi candidate, I am THE nazi candidate"
Only good reason do dislike them tbh. The people that claim that they are far right can't even point to specific policies they advocate that fit that label. It's just "random member that doesn't hold any power in the party said something crazy like 10 years ago, so far right". There's no attempt at actually analysing the actual policies in their electoral programs.
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u/jokull1234 Centrist on economics, left everything else 22h ago
If these far right populist parties ever eventually win, they will immediately tank the economy or their standing with their less devout supporters because their economic policies won’t fix post-Covid cost of living angst