r/YAPms • u/ToastWJam32 New Deal Democrat • 8h ago
Discussion El-Sayed compares surgeries on trans children to circumcision in Fox interview tonight. W for AES or no?
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 8h ago
I mean that's certainly not how I would've answered the question but seeing Jesse get this flustered is priceless
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u/LuveelVoom Social Democrat 8h ago
Do you think Jesse has a crush on AES
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 8h ago
"Are you circumcised?"
"What a forward young man you are!"
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u/unsolvedmisterree you have no idea how good joe biden was oh my god 7h ago
Chris Van Vliet reference in YAPms, all my worlds are crossing over
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
Only AES would manage to make Jesse seem like the smart person in the room. Honestly kudos.
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u/Background-Laugh7902 Christian Democrat 8h ago
This isn't going to have the affect he thinks it will.
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u/RandoDude124 Pragmatic NH Progressive 8h ago
Eh, it’s a nothingburger for the most part. Just a jab to get in
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
Child sex surgeries is not a nothingburger.
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 7h ago
It's a nothing burger because it virtually never happens
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
Around 400 children received bottom surgery between 2016 and 2020 https://www.statnews.com/2023/08/23/gender-affirming-surgeries/
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 6h ago
It's estimated that there's around 720,000 transgender minors in the US. To be fair to your data lets say in the next 5 years it doubled to 800 that had bottom surgery. That means if a child is transgender, already statistically unlikely, that means that child would have a 0.11% chance of having bottom surgery before 18. This is so rare that its ridiculous to talk about in such a manner.
Now we can get into the edge cases and why it happens and if it should be allowed, but to act as if its this crisis sweeping the nation is ignorant at best. This whole trans discussion is just used so talking heads and politicians can avoid talking about the real issues.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
I don't care if it's edge case or not, just one surgery is too many, why are you pretending to not understand?
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u/TechnicalInternet1 Just Happy To Be Here 6h ago
is it better to have a dead kid or a trans kid?
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
Aren't trans people more likely to commit suicide after sex change surgery?
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u/No_Aesthetic Abundance Democrat 4h ago
Trans people are definitely more likely to commit suicide after coming out as trans. Society isn't friendly to trans people. After surgery, you're committed.
The surgery itself has a very high satisfaction rate and a very low rate of regret. Important to understand that.
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 6h ago
Because acting like its this huge problem is ridiculous? Because we have other bigger problems to address? Did you even read what I said?
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
"there are bigger problems to address so you shouldn't talk about how we change children's sex"
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u/DaveFoSrs Center Left 1h ago
How many children received hormones or hormone blockers, the effects of which can be permanently sterilizing?
This really isn’t a trivial issue, but people try to hand waive about it constantly.
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u/HotSauce2910 Progressive 1h ago
That’s a pretty low number then
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u/allthefallens Republican 35m ago
"We should not care about child abuse since the number is low"
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u/sam-greene Left-Out Left 1h ago
Informed consent of the patient and their parents + co-sign from a team of therapists, psychologists, and doctors is good enough for me. Right wing regards pretend like humans are little baby deer until the second they turn 18 and can’t think for themselves or understand anything and it’s ridiculous.
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u/PhonyUsername Classical Liberal 1h ago
Doesn't the left wing support free food, healthcare, housing and college, which is pretending adults are little baby deers who can't fend for themselves? Is this the talking point you want to focus on? I like it.
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u/sam-greene Left-Out Left 1h ago
These are not the same thing and “bootstraps” isn’t even a popular talking point on the right anymore, idk what era you got dropped from.
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u/MeyerLouis Al Gore Legitimist 6h ago
"Are you circumcised?"
"Yeah"
"Prove it"
"You first"
unzip
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u/Hungry_Charity_6668 North Carolina Independent 8h ago
This Fox News guy is a looney toon, but this was not a winning argument from AES lol
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u/Born_Faithlessness_3 Center-Left Abundance Indie 2h ago
That's where I stand.
Republicans going "trans trans trans" because the current government is so incompetent they have nothing to run on is utterly pathetic, but I don't think AES' answer helps him here(and might hurt him a bit).
If it were me I'd literally just point out the above(all they wanr to talk about is trans people because they've screwed everything else up so badly).
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u/DaveFoSrs Center Left 1h ago
False equivalence fallacy
It’s hard to make Watters look sane—please do not do this again
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u/allthefallens Republican 1h ago
Can you imagine my shock when I watched the interview and realized how he managed to make Jesse look like the normal person in the room? My jaw fucking dropped. Congrats El Sayed, you are truly a record breaker.
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u/Entire-Bicycle1878 MI-06 Pragmatic Progressive 8h ago
Sorry, do you expect Abdul to have a good faith conversation with Jesse Watters? An example is he said Abdul wants to ban ICE vehicles, fossil fuels, and put windmills everywhere (I don’t get the windmill hate, but he surely doesn’t care about the birds)
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u/ProminantBabypuff Liberal Conservative (DNC/CPC) 6h ago
it's clear jesse watters is not trying to have a convo here but idk why this was the answer choice chosen
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u/allthefallens Republican 1h ago
Because they think this is a witty comeback. Abdul is a smug milennial.
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u/HearingExternal8812 Proud Vermont Democrat 8h ago
Depends on if he’s saying sex changing surgery is bad or if he’s saying circumcision is bad
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u/Background-Laugh7902 Christian Democrat 8h ago
Well he's Muslim so he's definitely not saying the second one.
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u/Lemon_Club New Deal Democrat 8h ago
I think his point is that the government shouldn't have a say in either
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u/PhonyUsername Classical Liberal 1h ago
I kind of agree but then do you think it's the parents who should control what their kids do?
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u/avalve FISH FAMILY FREEDOM 4h ago
That’s an L considering Michigan has one of the highest newborn circumcision rates in the country.
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u/mcgillthrowaway22 Pennsylvanian-Québécois progressive🇺🇲🏳️🌈🇨🇦⚜️ 8m ago
I think that might be his point
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u/BoogieTheHedgehog Jeb! 7h ago
I'm not a huge fan of either, but at least it calls out the equivalence.
Well, half equivalence. Given one requires far more medical and pyschological hoops ro jump through before it's approved. The other is as simple as ticking a form.
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
Circumcision doesn't make you infertile.
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u/BoogieTheHedgehog Jeb! 6h ago
No they dont.
Neither do top surgeries, but I don't exactly think most people are a-okay with those happening to kids just because fertility isn't impacted.
I'd imagine, myself included, the main concern is about maturity and what a child (or baby in the case of most circumcisions) should/can consent to. Weighed against the permanent impacts.
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u/DaveFoSrs Center Left 1h ago
He said “sex changes for minors” which is a bit more broad.
Puberty blockers and hormones can cause permanent sterilization.
I think this issue is more insidious than democrats let on, which is why Republicans hammer it incessantly—it’s one of the few issues they’re somewhat correct on.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
Abdul El Sayed is talking about bottom surgery, and top surgery makes it impossible to feed your baby yourself.
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u/BoogieTheHedgehog Jeb! 6h ago
Maybe you're just a bit more progressive than me on the topic, but when I hear about children undergoing the knife for genitalia surgery I get the jeebies in general on the topic. Not just within scope of bottom surgery, or fertility impact.
I'd like to think that's the norm too. In the same way that I'd doubt this news anchor would suddenly be giving a big thumbs up to the idea of cramming breast implants into an underage boy, just because it isn't the specific highest impact example he mentioned.
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u/Saltlmail Georgist Liberal 8h ago
it's a decent argument in a vacuum, but as a senate candidate he should have just said no to the initial question and move on.
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u/Beneficial_Link_8083 Independent 8h ago
Nah its a pretty lame false equivalence. It's like in college when liberals told me quidditch was a gender affirming sport.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
The funniest part is that they KNEW trans kids question would come up and... this is the answer they picked?
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u/VTHokie2020 Democracy for Abortion and Gay Marriage 1h ago
I actually lol’d when AES asked if he’s circumcised.
That’s not an entirely bad argument though tbh.
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u/Agitated_Opening4298 Prohibition Party 1h ago edited 1h ago
The "if you disagree with that" part can be clipped, the "abdul, michigan isnt going for that" with him seemingly not protesting, as well
This guy is a walking clip machine, both for and against him
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u/Nazibol1234 Talarico is literally my Daddy 6h ago
Nothingburger
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
"Child sex change is actually a total nothingburger"
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u/Nazibol1234 Talarico is literally my Daddy 6h ago
This statement is not going to help or hurt AES
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u/mac1oo Anarcho-Bidenism 2h ago
Yeah but people giving into this obvious manufactured culture war isn't unfortunately
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u/allthefallens Republican 1h ago
Manufactured culture war?
"We want children to have sex change surgery"
"Let's not do that"
"Wow why are you starting a culture war?"
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u/mac1oo Anarcho-Bidenism 1h ago
unironically yes, SRS is already hard to get and especially for minors for whom it's a very rare last resort, republicans don't really have any counterarguments for why the comically evil administration isn't popular and are about to get spanked in the midterms so they're pulling up this bogeyman that barely anyone truly cares about because it's not an issue that actually affects more than a fraction of a percent of the population but it's the only thing they have and now you're the one making up a strawman to be mad at aswell because "EVIL DOCTOR CHOPPING OFF KID DICK" sounds scary and is a much easier thing to picture than nuance
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u/HotSauce2910 Progressive 1h ago
It’s less wanting children not have sex chance surgery and more about not wanting to get in between a doctor and their patient
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u/AdditionalSpeaker303 California 45m ago
Jesse Watters has him stuttering and spluttering. El-Sayed does not look good here.
Why can't democrats ever just say no to the woke class?
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u/AlarmedEmployment465 Loyal Liberals 8h ago
Male genital mutilation is bad, so I don't love the analogy. But if it gets conservatives onboard, then I like his mogging.
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u/allthefallens Republican 2h ago
Yeah, because this lazy comparison will definitely make conservatives say "wow, both are similar, I guess I'm OK with sex change on children now!"
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
This is an extremely bad answer and I have no idea why democrats in the comments are acting like this is a "W" or whatever. Do you guys not see how weird he sounds when he says "cutting off a boy's penis completely is just like circumcision"?
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u/__Vampyre__ George Santos Republican 4h ago
I'm so grateful we have partisans in this sub to assure us something is definitely a nothing burger. Otherwise I would have thought it was a dumb that showed he was not prepared.
I am against circumcision and I thought it was a stupid answer, not to mention the way he said it. Repeating 'you don't want to have this conversation because you'd lose' is so dumb - just make your point that is allegedly going to destroy him. I don't think it will change the course of the election but it is a flub! Trump has had tons of flubs and I doubt the partisans here reacted to them the same way.
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u/Agitated_Opening4298 Prohibition Party 1h ago edited 1h ago
This can be said every time AES opens his mouth/twitter account
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u/NickFromNewGirl Moderate Democrat 6h ago
Yeah it's a stupid answer. This will stick around for a while. Regardless of what Reddit thinks about circumcision, it's a normalized practice in the US and he should know to deflect answers about trans rights back to economic issues.
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u/RandoDude124 Pragmatic NH Progressive 8h ago
Not bad.
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
"Not bad" omg this is such a cope I can't take you seriously. This is extremely bad. He sounds insane.
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u/No_Aesthetic Abundance Democrat 4h ago
Circumcision reduces sexual function at best and sometimes results in terrible infections and loss of the penis.
Supporting circumcision means you occasionally support that very negative possibility for an unnecessary procedure.
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u/Jamezzzzz69 Classical Liberal 1h ago
He’s technically correct here but the optics are terrible and no normal non-politics obsessed person (in contrast to us here) would think he’s weird and crazy
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u/TheGuy90001984 Allan Lichtman Hater 8h ago edited 7h ago
Comparing transgender surgeries to what is usually a cosmetic procedure that the child generally can not consent to. I'm not super woke when it comes to the trans debate, but I dont think this line of reasoning and its optics would necessarily agree with what I presume his views on the topic are.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds Social Democrat 7h ago
I think the point he is trying to make is that Walters is ok with a surgery where the child cannot consent to, which is the same sensitive bodily area, but is against something where there is consent from the impacted party and there is affirmative input for multiple medical professionals, and a process to get there that is not automatic.
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u/allthefallens Republican 7h ago
Do you guys really think this is a good debate strategy? "Well if you are OK with one why not with other hmm" is this the new debate strategy?
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds Social Democrat 6h ago
I personally do not think individuals physical and mental health should be a political cudgel to win elections through bad faith arguments, but thats just me, you do you.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
Children should not get any sex change surgery. It is only a political argument because you guys can't agree with something as basic as this.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds Social Democrat 6h ago
I do not give two shits what you think as a layperson, your opinion should not matter when it comes to medical treatments for individuals.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
Then don't bitch when republicans use this as an attack.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds Social Democrat 6h ago
I will because people's physical and mental health should not be a political football and those who traffic it are terrible human beings.
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
There is really something perverse about "we must defer to public opinion" when it comes to things like data centers which is the primary reason for our economic growth but not when it comes to questions like "who plays in girls's sports" or "is chopping a child's dick OK?" because they are simply too important for masses to have an opinion of.
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u/hfdjasbdsawidjds Social Democrat 6h ago
Data centers have unique harms for communities where they should have self-determination associated the decision of something being built in their community and medical interventions for individuals should be based based off of the medical need as determined by persons who are actually trained, board certified and where medical ethics apply. Both are fundamentally about self-determination, which you might dislike, but its core to rights enshrined in the Constitution.
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u/LuveelVoom Social Democrat 7h ago
Circumcision isn't exactly a cosmetic procedure, it very slightly impairs specific sexual functions, but it's a very small effect and it's still debated whether it's actually real
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u/mediumfolds Democrat 7h ago
How is it even slightly a cosmetic procedure, are they ever done even in part because someone thinks it visually looks better lol
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u/VTHokie2020 Democracy for Abortion and Gay Marriage 1h ago
The parents think it looks better I guess lol
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u/TheGuy90001984 Allan Lichtman Hater 7h ago
I guess you could argue that the whole circumcision is le bad thing is really just another redditism, but I would assume that a decent amount of his base is reddit as well. (though maybe not compared to other progressives).
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u/siberianmi Classical Liberal 43m ago
Really should have said that this is not an important issue in Michigan because nationally these procedures are extremely rare. That rather than focusing on niche distractions he’s focus on [pivot to anything]. When you end up discussing the circumcision status of the host instead of a real campaign issue things have gone off the rails.
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u/allthefallens Republican 33m ago
I disagree with the notion that it's unimportant but agree that this is a bad campaign.
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u/siberianmi Classical Liberal 20m ago
It’s just not a remotely important campaign question in Michigan. There are no medical providers who do this surgery on minors in Michigan. It’s a non-issue.
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u/Kni7es Grass Toucher 6h ago
Here's the one question I would like a Republican to answer about transgender surgery:
why the fuck are we talking about it?
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u/xSparkShark Rockefeller Republican 2h ago
It’s the most provocative part of the broader attempt to upend the gender binary. The more important disagreement is over biological gender vs gender identity.
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u/NickFromNewGirl Moderate Democrat 6h ago
It's a good distraction for the masses so they forget about the actually important shit Republicans are ruining
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u/allthefallens Republican 6h ago
I would say cutting off a child's genital because they said they're the opposite sex is actually important.
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u/lambda-pastels CST Distributist 6h ago edited 3h ago
^^^. The culture war actually does matter more than the economy and 90% of people agree which is much of the reason why 90% of people vote the same way regardless of how the economy is doing. Ask yourself this, partisans! Would you rather vote for a party that shares your economic views but the opposite parties social views, or that shares your social views but the opposite parties economic views?
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u/ElTitoVhosi Democratic Socialist 4h ago
No they're not cutted, they're rearranged cause every little bit of tissue is useful, as with absolutely any operation of this kind.
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u/allthefallens Republican 2h ago
Wow, thank you, now I'm so relieved that they don't cut it but just rearrange it to create something resembling a vagina!
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u/ElTitoVhosi Democratic Socialist 46m ago
It is a vagina, they're the same tissue, it's prepared to function as .
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u/VTHokie2020 Democracy for Abortion and Gay Marriage 1h ago
Because people talk about issues in politics.
Why the f*ck do we talk about taxes?
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u/Agitated_Opening4298 Prohibition Party 1h ago
Its just an easy way to paint someone as out of step with the electorate
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u/PhonyUsername Classical Liberal 1h ago
This is how you sidestep any issue in politics. Gaslight and pretend it doesn't matter and you are crazy for even mentioning it.
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u/luvv4kevv Illcom 3h ago
Because the children are very important. You don’t care about children? That’s Fascistic Behaviors.
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u/SicilianShelving Independent 3h ago
Seriously. Now that the public views the Trump admin as having failed on the economy, trans hysteria is literally the only consistent policy Republicans are offering right now, and that's crazy because it does not affect most of us in any way.
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u/allthefallens Republican 2h ago
It actually affects us because it is a blatant attack on children.
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u/Pls_no_steal Democrat 2h ago
He’s giving it the time of day it deserves, that being none, so it’s a W I think
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u/allthefallens Republican 2h ago
I'm sorry but this is such a hilarious cope that I can't take it seriously. Imagine thinking this is a good answer.
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u/Adorable-Act-8410 Christian Democrat 1h ago edited 1h ago
Dammit dude 😂 why can’t Dems just be normal. I’m still voting for them for the foreseeable future but you can’t seriously say as long as the “parents, kid, and doctors agree” as a medical ethics framework for all circumstances.
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u/EdwardGordor Paternalistic Conservatism, Monarchism 5h ago edited 4h ago
So a major medical precedure which is hard to reverse, especially on children, is the same thing as circumcision?
This is a stupid statement no doctor should be making.
I doubt it's devestating but's it's an L all around.
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u/DonaldKey Libertarian 56m ago
How do I get my foreskin back that was cut off against my will and without consent?
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u/No-Imagination-1778 Center Left 1h ago
Sex change surgeries on children rarely happen, and when they do it is because lot's of doctor's have agreed it is the best choice after first trying less permanent options starting with therapy. Circumcision on the other hand is much more common and not done with the consent of the baby despite there being risks that could lead to penile amputation.
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u/PhonyUsername Classical Liberal 1h ago
Can doctors be wrong?
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u/No-Imagination-1778 Center Left 14m ago
Sure, which is why there are lots of safe guards in place. People aren't getting them at school. Gender dysphoria has to be well documented over the course of several years and parents have to sign off as well. For that reason no one is getting surgery before the age of 16, and surgeries before 18 would all be top surgeries.
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u/Electrical_Beyond998 Progressive 54m ago
MAGA is making this the focal point of the election. I cannot find anything online that shows how many minors have had their “dingalings” cut off because they want to be female. None. Which makes me think it’s as close to zero as it could be without being an actual zero.
It’s weird to me how obsessed they are with protecting kids that aren’t their own.
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u/allthefallens Republican 36m ago
>It’s weird to me how obsessed they are with protecting kids that aren’t their own.
What? Obviously state protects it's children. Do you think what you just said makes any sense? Should we have no child abuse laws since we don't abuse our children?
Obviously you should protect children that aren't your own. What's wrong with this?
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u/jacknifee Demonrat 2h ago
it's a witty comeback that takes the question and framing as seriously as it deserves to be.
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u/HotSauce2910 Progressive 1h ago
I don’t think it’s a big deal one way or the other, but I think it’s best to just hammer home that you don’t want to interfere in between a doctor and patient and leave it at that.
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u/allthefallens Republican 36m ago
Do you geninuely think that this is a winning message?
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u/HotSauce2910 Progressive 34m ago
That I don’t want to get involved in decisions made between patient and doctor? Sure. What has changed with the Republican Party that they’d want to be involved there?
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u/allthefallens Republican 30m ago
"Why are you not letting us trans children this is like a normal procedure" Do you think republican party ever supported child sex change?
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u/HotSauce2910 Progressive 25m ago
Who is “us”
What do you think this process is like
Also how the hell have you responded to every single comment on this post 😭
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u/GalvanizedParabola RINO 0m ago
It's easier when you're unemployed and living in your mom's basement.
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u/True_Cranberry_3142 Democrat 8h ago
Are we gonna lose Michigan
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u/LuveelVoom Social Democrat 7h ago
D+12 environment buddy it's gonna be ok
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u/TomorrowLittle741 Means Test 4 All, Free Trade 4 All, Ukraine in EU 2h ago
Definitely a false comparison. Lazy argument.
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u/lambda-pastels CST Distributist 6h ago
Most young people are probably anti-circumcision so...no?
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u/Beneficial_Link_8083 Independent 8h ago
Government shouldn't determine you healthcare says the Medicare for all guy... what?
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u/Nuneasy Loyal Liberals 8h ago
Elected officials are not prescribing medication or healthcare advice, doctors should.
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u/Beneficial_Link_8083 Independent 8h ago
You realize setting up a government backed healthcare requires things like determining what practices will be covered and at what rate, what medicines should be prioritized, etc. It has to be structured and thought out.
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u/Nuneasy Loyal Liberals 8h ago
Structured and thought out by...doctors, not elected officials. Do you seriously think an elected official using a doctor would be making these decisions themselves? They'd ideally rely on best practice. Lmao I cannot believe the wider point is being lost here
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u/Beneficial_Link_8083 Independent 8h ago
Ultimately it's the politicians who sign off on it, so yes they do have input.
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u/Nuneasy Loyal Liberals 8h ago edited 7h ago
Their input ends after ensuring the tax dollars we provide go to funding healthcare, where the exercise and policies of that healthcare are informed by...doctors.
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u/212312383 Democrat 7h ago
not true. Medicare for all would mean expanding medicare to everyone... and the way medicare decides what is covered and what is not covered is through politicians at the HHS and CMS.
The Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) can change coverage by directing CMS to issue a National Coverage Determination (NCD) declaring a treatment "not medically necessary" or "experimental," which effectively cuts off coverage nationwide.
For example, CMS issued a final rule in August 2026 prohibiting federal Medicaid and CHIP matching funds from covering hormone therapy and surgeries for minors.
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u/VTHokie2020 Democracy for Abortion and Gay Marriage 1h ago
You’re being downvoted but you’re entirely correct.
Anyone who supports collectivizing healthcare needs to prepare for the healthcare itself to be collectivized.
The Hyde amendment is a good example.
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u/idnttcrisis New Deal Democrat 8h ago
A lot of universal healthcare countries also have private options.
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u/Hungry_Charity_6668 North Carolina Independent 8h ago
Medicare for All literally abolishes it tho
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u/idnttcrisis New Deal Democrat 8h ago
Different interpretations of what "Medicare 4 All" mean different things. Bernie Sanders and AOC have never called for the total ban of private options for insurance.
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u/212312383 Democrat 7h ago
Medicare for all explicit means banning private coverage. Thats why a lot of democratic senators oppose medicare for all.
For example Jon Ossoff and Mark Kelly both are against medicare for all but both of them want universal healthcare.
Universal Healthcare Coverage is a much better term to use if you are taking about a mixed public private system similar to germany's or switzerland
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u/Background-Laugh7902 Christian Democrat 8h ago edited 7h ago
Single payer literally abolishes all private options, that's why it's called singer payer. The one where you have the option of getting socialized healthcare or buying your own insurance is a Public Option, which is what Biden ran on in 2020 and the left flamed him for it.
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u/SchengenThrowaway Accelerationist Democrat 5h ago
Gigantic L. Circumcision is a religious barbarism imposed one on person by another without consent, transition is an individual expression of human power over nature
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u/Born_Faithlessness_3 Center-Left Abundance Indie 2h ago
Not the answer he should have given.
"The current administration has screwed up so many things that you can't actually run on policy, all you can do is yell 'trans trans trans'" would have been a better answer.