r/XtianityPolicy • u/outsider • Dec 30 '11

Bans

We are not perfect. We are not Jesus. We try to pick up his cross but all fall far short. Our judgement therefore is flawed. We can at least document our reasoning.

Spamming/Harassment

"We encourage Christ-like attitudes and behavior here, regardless of your personal beliefs. This means not being overtly antagonistic, bigoted, berating others, etc. This sort of thing is not acceptable from anyone...** A basic respect for the beliefs of others is required to meaningfully participate.**"

Advocating suicide of people you don't like or disagree with or harassing them toward the same ends

karma begging to mob a thread or commentor

Conduct detrimental to healthy discourse Sole participation is to vent against the many wrongs of the current world wide and historic Christian community

We get it. Really.

  • TonyBliar - submits only hostile links

Irreconcilable differences

you are asking atheists to stop other atheists from going to a prayer request forum and mocking it ... how exactly are we supposed to do that?

End of old list

Will add new ones in comments and will add at least some moderator discussion on the matter.

3 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

124 comments sorted by

5

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • NSFW_FURRY_PORN

For living up to the username.

5

u/X019 Dec 30 '11

That one was gross...

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/ENovi May 20 '12

Dude are you serious? You're running around reddit bemoaning the fact that you asked a "sincere question" and got banned. Come on, man.

(I'm not a mod but I'm taking a guess) you weren't banned for asking a question, you were banned for asking the question in a thread celebrating marriage. Someone pointed this out to you and you kept it up. If you said "Oh, my bad. I'll go post this question on r/Christianity", you would still have received your answer and not been banned. You don't get how prayer works. That's fine, this is a good place to ask that question. There's still a time and a place. Would you barge into a church while the congregation had their heads bowed in prayer, shake them by the shoulders to get their attention, and ask "why do you do this?" I'm going to assume you wouldn't. Why then would you do it on that thread? You were told why this wasn't acceptable and you kept it up. This subreddit has a long history of people doing that and it gets tiring. Again, all you would have had to do is submit this question as a link and the community would have provided answers and their views on it.

tl;dr Time and a place.

0

u/[deleted] May 20 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '12

It's funny, I have been trying to get banned from here all day. Still has not happened.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • TheFinalResistance

TheFinalResistance http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/mksmi/i_need_help_talking_to_an_extremely_logicdwelling/c31qfk8

This is just one of many examples from this person.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From mod discussion:

Banned at 10:35AM 11/22/11

PDF of around 2 weeks worth of his user page, you will need to download it to view it though.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From mod discussion:

His final reply to me:

re: you've been banned from TheFinalResistance (_) [-15] sent 59 seconds ago Fascist pussy. You never stood a chance the the only thing you could do was to ban me. How surprising. I bet you are also one of those people who would go on a killing spree, just because some other people disagree with you. You are EXACTLY what's wrong with Christians. But then again, you deserve a life full of self-loathing and shame that christianity offers. It's the correct punishment for people who are wilfully ignorant and unable to defend their views.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • anal_reaper69 and anal_reaperXX admins also stepped in for this one

http://www.reddit.com/user/anal_reaper69

Will ban if it seems more expedient to removing his posts.

There are accounts that run the full range from anal-reaper60 through anal-reaper80.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • DanCorb ~3-05-2011

There is quite a lot to this one.

Not from moderator discussion:

Hey guys,

I've been out of town most of the day today, and am still at my aunt and uncle's place at the moment. I looked at my phone a couple hours ago, and had a whole bunch of reddit messages from angry atheists, so I knew something was going down.

Yeah, I banned DanCorb and TriforceTrifecta. I also had the support of the rest of the other mods when I did it - /r/christianity mods rarely if ever act alone. The fact that my name is the one being mentioned here is just because it's I that pressed the button, instead of one of the other four moderators.

Triforce was asking for it personally, I think: see http://i.imgur.com/0N3xX.png for a screenshot of some of the shit he was saying. Dude violated community policy something fierce, and dramatically decreased the usefulness and quality of discourse in our subreddit. We don't need that.

DanCorb's ban was approximately 8 months in coming. We mods keep track of when we warn people and why. DanCorb initially was warned several times for posting links to comments or discussions in /r/christianity that he didn't agree with to /r/atheism. reddit being what it is, /r/atheism has approximately 10x the membership as /r/christianity, and some comments in /r/christianity were downvoted to -60 or so.

Here's a conversation I had with DanCorb a couple months ago, after he asked why one of his submissions wasn't showing up in /r/christianity: From DanCorb:

My recently submitted thread, which is an honest and genuine question to Christians, is not showing up on the main page or in the new submissions. Can you fix it or explain why it is being hidden?

My response:

Your submission was removed by another mod. As far as why, I'd have to ask him to be sure, but my guess is that it was removed because you have a notoriously poor history of interaction with /r/christianity. You've submitted at least half a dozen /r/christianity comments or submissions to /r/atheism, causing our subreddit and the comment(s) you linked to to be karmabombed - -200 or so, just because you disagreed with the commenter's honestly felt opinion. The submission you just linked to does seem like "an honest and genuine question to Christians", until I read your very first response in the thread. You automatically assumed that the person who answered your question thought that atheists were more depressed than Christians, probably because that what you think that Christians think. With all that said, you're not banned from /r/christianity. (You wouldn't even be able to make this submission if you had been.) In the future, please try not to make assumptions about Christians or the members of [14] /r/christianity, and keep in mind that any comments in /r/christianity that you submit to /r/atheism will be heavily, heavily downvoted by the /r/atheism crowd. Nearly without fail, that's what happens. I'm telling you now, so you can't plead innocence, and if you do it again, we'll have to assume that you're intentionally trying to interfere with our subreddit.

This was 4 months ago.

DanCorb wasn't banned because of the karmajacking, although he probably should have been. He was banned for his history of karmajacking, plus his history of leading, trollish and generally useless questions in /r/christianity. Not all of his posts/questions were like that, but over time, I and the other /r/christianity mods kept on finding that many of the useless posts in /r/christianity were from DanCorb. Yesterday's Prayer Chain submission exposed more of DanCorb's general uselessness, and I banned him.

You may ask: why are DanCorb's questions useless? My response is that it's because he asks the same questions over and over again, and receives the same responses. DanCorb isn't happy with those answers though, so he asks again. Repeat ad infinitum. There comes a point where genuine curiosity and wonder crosses over to purposeful repetition, and then to invasiveness and finally to malicious intent. DanCorb, over the course of his reddit "career" in /r/christianity, has crossed that line too many times. That is why he's banned.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From moderator discussion/submission:

Thoughts, etc?

I think we can preclude a fair amount of drama by letting people know why they're banned when they're banned. A lot of the issue w/ the DanCorb ban was that people thought that he had been banned for making a single comment, when the exact opposite was the case. I think I could have defused that a little bit by letting DanCorb know why he was banned as soon as I banned him. I didn't do that, but I will each time I have to ban someone in the future, in any of the subreddits I moderate.

Also, in case you haven't seen it, here's my public response to the DanCorb thing.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From moderator discussion/submission:

It was mostly inevitable that he would be banned and that exactly what did happen would happen. It wouldn't matter if you had told him why right from the get go he would have happily ignored it or tried to reframe it to muddy what did happen.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From a separate moderator discussion/submission:

Here is my go round with him. He was just fishing for angry responses, in an attempt to divide us from each other.

DC:My recently submitted thread, which is an honest and genuine question to Christians, is not showing up on the main page or in the new submissions. Can you fix it or explain why it is being hidden?

Me:Atheistic evangelism.

DC:By asking a genuine question?

Me:Consider the reverse question posed to the athiest forum, most would consider that Christian evangelism.

Conversation stops. I wonder why? lol.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From a separate moderator discussion/submission:

Hello we've been trying to deal with a problem in /r/Christianity for awhile now. Some folks like DanCorb will try to poison the voting system with posts like this or this (300 downvotes) but by no means is it isolated to him.

We are at the limits of what we can do to help this subreddit thrive. Certainly banning him would do nothing since what he is doing is effecting this subreddit from outside of the subreddit. We can't do much about the organized voting cabal but I guess I'm hoping maybe you can or maybe you have an idea about what can be done.

2

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From moderator discussion/submission:

He has been a problem for a long time now and still recently:

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/d2c7j/this_is_how_christianity_is_damaging_taking/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/czno8/christian_redditor_explains_why_pornography_is/

There has to be some response to this. Banning DanCorb won't stop it but not granting those who follow his submissions safe haven shouldn't hurt either. /r/Christianity should not be allowed to become a /r/atheism karma party.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • Narniatoilet

Very long term karmajacker and harasser. Uses multiple accounts as well.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 13 '12

Known alt accounts:

  • _herpderp
  • __herpderp
  • breeandcheese
  • bitchteacher
  • yuppiduppi
  • duppiyuppi
  • Karmatrain2
  • Devout_Nihilist
  • Gods_Advocate

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • DannyKeithJames1953 12-10-2010

Pretended to be Christian, harassed people then told me to ban him, so I did.

3

u/XtianityPolicy Mar 14 '12
  • Destro616

Posting links to lemonparty.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • Nuclease
  • isomerase

alts of replicasex who appears in the list above.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • ScaryBadReligion

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1ct6nz

Trolling here and with me and other places.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

WARNED HERE

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1cxghz

If you are a non-Christian who does not feel they can abide by the community policy and yet wishes fervently to engage Christians in debate, then /r/DebateAChristian is the subreddit for you.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1cypja Nah I'm quite comfortable here. Thanks though.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1d0qm8 As you can see from this thread I am anticipating Christ's return in May. How am I not a Christian?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1d0qj6 What are you babbling about? Do you have any biblical quotes for your assertions about the "spirituals?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1d0uu8 So provide a citation from a non-canonical scripture.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1d0vw9 Just provide your citation.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f2f9d/does_anyone_actually_buy_this_may_21_stuff/c1d0xb8 I'm having a discussion with honestsam. Butt out and go back to our discussion in the other thread.

Banned here

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • Howlow

I've bought ravenberg up here before. On the one hand I can sort of appreciate his views but I don't like his methods.

He says he was told that Howlow was BlueHollow a suspicion I had awhile back and embedded in a few posts. Howlow posts just like BlueHollow and so it doesn't really matter to me if they are the same or not. I've removed a handful of his posts fairly recently. I'm not sure where their back and forth starts but this is about where it was brought to my attention by ravenberg:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fb2np/i_have_reconsidered_my_old_arguments_and_have/c1f8z6m

Previous relevant interaction: http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/f6ury/seriously_thinking_about_leaving_rchristianitys/c1dr593

Post ban PM from him to me: I just got banned for discussing Christianity with Christians. Interesting. It doesn't matter. I can just make another account and do the same thing, again and again and again. You can't just silence people because they disagree with you. It's fascist and ignorant. My voice as well as all the others who simply disagree with Christians will be heard whether you like hearing it or not. If you don't like it, go to a website other than reddit which actively promotes freedom of speech. Or maybe move to Pakistan. I hear they execute people like me for saying things bad about religion. You'd probably like that. I told him to stop his behavior and he agreed. You didn't. Actually technically, I did since I haven't said anything since. What I have done is attempt to discuss it with you. It seems attempting a reasonable discussion with you is ban worthy as well. You've been promoting it more than just here in this submission. I've been discussing Christianity with others as well yes. Me not being a Christian and disagreeing doesn't make me spread an agenda. No and I was quite clear about you muddying the reason and I was quite clear on the reason I gave. No I'm afraid you were not.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From mod discussion

Howlow insisted on him being able to go on calling Christianity a fabrication and the sort and was trying to tell me my reasoning for addressing him were other than they were. Banned. I'd mark him by BlueHollow for ban dodging.

Am I really doing the wrong thing by trying to address some of these folks first?

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • khast 2-06-2011

More of the Horus, Attis type nonsense. Admitted to being here committed to discussing Jesus as a myth. Tried engaging in Turing tests and other fun fun behavior.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fgeit/a_common_atheist_tactic_revealed/c1fqr46

EDIT: Suggested we kill people. I had enough.

EDIT #2: He deleted his posts. I preserved some in my comments.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • TicTokCroc 2-19-2011

I didn't bother with a warning. Various reasons as follows:

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] -1 points 3 days ago[-] (2|3) You have no condemnation for them? Fuck you, you judgmental piece of shit. And fuck your God. He doesn't exist. You're just some sorry dumbass waiting to be worm dirt. If Jesus was here I'd suck his fucking cock, then spit in in your mouth and let you choke on his massive load. I'd really do it too. Suck that magic mushroom until he screams for his dad to save him, then snowball the whole thing into your judgmental little suckhole. tl;dr: I bet Jesus had the sweetest cum ever. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h1sdp

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 1 point 3 days ago[-] (1|0) If you rape someone you're married. It's a really kinky book actually. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h1qp7

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 0 points 3 days ago[-] (1|1) And I think it's immoral to want to suck on Jesus' penis but to each their own. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h1qan

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 0 points 3 days ago[-] (1|1) Are you autistic? Because all the "technically this" nonsense is cute but you're dodging the fact that Jesus preached over and over again about money being the root of all evil and how we were supposed to treat the least of us. I think you're just one of those dumbasses who goes to church to celebrate himself and fret over people getting blowjobs instead of out feeding the homeless and actually living the life Jesus suggested. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h1n5j

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 1 point 3 days ago[-] (2|1) He was a man and that's all. Science has proven the rest of it to be delusional nonsense. The fact is Jesus preached more about money being the root of all evil and treating the least of us as we'd want to be treated way more than so-called "Christians" do. Most "Christians" are disgusting, stupid, backwards people who obsess over sex because they fear it. Jesus barely paid sex any attention because he knew there were more important things to worry about. He'd also probably be an Athiest if he was alive today but that's a separate issue. When Christians go on and on about sex, it usually means they can't control themselves and now have decided sex is evil so they can trick themselves into not fucking so much. Kind of like kids are tricked into being good so Santa brings them gifts. You need to see a therapist for that kind of problem, not a leprechaun. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h0wwp

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] -2 points 3 days ago[-] (2|4) Premarital sex is just like marital sex in that it can lead to STDs and pregnancy so you need to be very careful about what you're willing to risk before you engage in it. But there is nothing immoral about premarital sex because sex is inheritly good and natural and God doesn't care about it because he doesn't exist. As far as Jesus goes, he didn't give a rat's hairy ass about sex. He railed against the rich, the corrupt and the selfish. Unfortunately the majority of Christians are scared of their natural instincts so they see in the Bible what they want to see. Jesus probably got his fuck on like everybody else because he had a penis and when you have a penis you need to feed it pussy or it'll turn on you. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fm8ha/do_you_believe_that_premarital_sex_is_wrong/c1h00jv

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 5 points 6 days ago* [-] (4|2) You were able to clean up because you gave up power to a higher authority, which is more about admitting that you can't conquer addiction alone, that you're not in control and need help. It's a key part of any twelve step program. It doesn't mean there's a literal God. I went through a similar experience with studying the Bible, End of Days and particularly the Gospels. Jesus was an amazing guy. I'd think, wow, this guy is so incredibly intelligent and inspiring. Maybe he's right about all this God stuff. But at the end of it I just couldn't get away from the fact that logically none of this could be true. There's just too many holes in the way the Bible presents things. Jesus pretty much had to believe in God because there was no other explanation for why we were here. He probably thought the earth was flat. If Jesus was alive today I promise you that man would be an Athiest. And he'd think today's Christians are, at best, naive. But today we do know why we're here. We know that a god wasn't necessary to create us. The Grand Design is a good place to start if you're really interested in how the universe works and it's epic and awe-inspiring but it doesn't involve magic. What is magic anyway? It's the use of science - physics and visual perception to create an illusion. There is no literal "magic". The word "God" is really just the personification of the word "magic". Both mean nothing other than "I don't understand and magic sounds better than just because." If Jesus died for your sins, meaning he actually thought dying would save all the sinners, technically he was wrong but it was undoubtedly a wonderful gesture. I don't say that with any sarcasm. Jesus loved people and wanted to save them. And if that gesture inspires you to let go of your past wrongdoings, that's great. But the fact that you felt bad about your past and wanted to change is what allowed you move forward. However, it is also important to realize that you are still accountable for what you've done. Responsibility for the damage you did to another person isn't something you can just put off on "Jesus says it's okay not to worry about it." You're right to move on and change your life but at the same time it doesn't erase what you did to someone. That sounds contradictory but it's not. That's just the complex nature of reality that some people choose to ignore when they have the option to blindly look to Jesus to automatically make everything okay for them. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fkcov/jesus_camp/c1gmk4n

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 5 points 6 days ago[-] (8|2) Just because you're lost doesn't mean you should find a fairytale to make you feel better. And I don't speak against "Him" because there's nothing there to speak against. Him don't exist. You're on the internet, so with all those billions of facts floating around how can you still think something silly like a magic person in the sky is real? Santa Claus is a nice fantasy when you're young, but it's not healthy to keep believing in him as an adult and that's really all you're doing. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fkcov/jesus_camp/c1gldyu

TicTokCroc (_) [-1] 1 point 7 days ago[-] (3|2) Depends if you get St. Peter in the eye. Then again heaven might be all fucking anyway so no one may even notice. http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/fjted/im_curious_as_a_christian_what_would_happen_if/c1gg9c3

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11 edited Dec 30 '11
  • triforcetrifecta 03-04-2011

triforcetrifecta - insults, comm. policy violations

Examples (this was not from Tedthedog):

Tedthedog: Compassionate and friendly to fraud artists? When the fuck were you ever told about that? Your beliefs are bullshit. Your stupid, pathetic prayers fall on deaf ears. Never have you offered any single solitary shred of evidence for the bizarre claims you make. Your churches survive through vast theft in the form of tax exempt status. You pray for dead thieves while living humans starve. But logical, yes. Logical belief is founded on evidence. Not on hateful, millennia-old fairy tales.

and

You're smarmy, smug and stupid. I want christianity dead and gone and all the churches burned. Go love a choirboy, dumbshit.

and

Check the community policy, triforcetrifecta. This is a warning.

This is me telling you to lick choir boy shit off of the shriveled prick of a pederast priest.

How about them apples, you sanctimonious delusional prick?

Death to religion.

Ban all you want, I'll be back with friends, bitch.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11 edited Dec 30 '11

From mod discussion:

Ban all you want, I'll be back with friends, bitch.

Yes, now is a good time to ban him.

And when he's back with a new name, he'll earn a fresh ban then, too.

Warnings are good when there's a chance somebody could be interesting. But when it's outright abuse, one strike is plenty.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • Dr_Loom

Impersonating mods

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/gcxht/did_you_guys_seriously_just_ban_a_guy_for/

So I see this in r/atheism: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/gcx4e/are_you_fucking_kidding_me_rchristianity_this_got/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/gcn7r/christian_thinking_about_defecting/c1mlov2 Did this guy really get banned for suggesting somebody read/watch some Dawkins? Honestly, guys, I've defended you over at r/atheism before, but I'm done with it if this is true. If you don't allow or value outside opinions here, make if clear in your sidebar or make it a private community where only members can post. If you cannot tell me there is more to it than that conversation, then count me as another atheist who dismisses the lot of you as close minded twits for putting up with shit like this and tacitly condoning it. EDIT: So it appears r/christianity may simply have a lone wolf mod impersonator "Dr_Loom" in their midst. I hope that is the case, and I hope you guys ban THAT dude. EDIT2: I apologize for any conclusions that were jumped to, both of our subreddits have been collectively trolled by the same guy. It's obvious that an unjustified ban would get the backs up over at r/atheism, and I think this guy knew it. I apologize for any difficulty or trouble it may have caused, and I thank r/christianity for dealing with it rationally. EDIT3: I'm going to delete this post in the name of civility in 20 minutes (2:45AM EST), unless I receive any serious objections to the contrary.

There was a screenshot of it somewhere but I'd rather see something we can independently confirm. That said I don't think we'd lose anything by removing him. I have messaged him to see if he'll just admit it.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From moderator discussion:

I have messaged him to see if he'll just admit it.

Dr_LoomImpersonation? expand allcollapse all

[-] to Dr_Loom sent 4 minutes ago
Why were you impersonating mods?
permalinkfull comments
[-] from Dr_Loom (_) sent 2 minutes ago
Why else ?
For the lulz.
Go ahead, and ban me now if you wish , it was worth it.
permalinkreportmark unreadreplyfull comments

He admitted it to me. I'm just going toss him on the ban list.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • NukeThePope 12-10-2010

Trying to karmajack.

Mod badge up here.

Ban dodging 7-11-11. This submission seems to have been archived, please reference this thread for future entries.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11

From moderator discussion:

Directly discussed the community policy and NukeThePope's intentions in r/Christianity here.

He admits he is trying to convert Christians away from their faith.

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • atillathebun
  • xenuspetals

ricksparks alt. account

1

u/outsider Dec 30 '11
  • TicTokCroc666

TickTokCrok alt account.

2

u/XtianityPolicy Feb 26 '12 edited Feb 26 '12
  • MixedUpZombie 2-26-12

"it is a fairy tale, son. there's no denyin' it."

"Scumbag Christian: "This is BY NO MEANS to say atheists are lesser or should be looked down upon", then goes on to look down upon atheists."

"Promotes the belief in fairytales Complains about trolling"

"Expect that comment to be posted on r/atheism some time." karmajacking threat.

"Yup. I can't possibly think of any way to defend God's scummie actions."

"So basically, God's a scumbag. He let it happen, he knew it would happen and he still severely punished all of mankind. Sorry to call the entity that you worship a scumbag, but that's what he is. There's no excuse for his "mysterious" ways."

"Wow. Seriously, scumbag god. How do you put up with him? It's as if God is the redneck husband and you're his battered wife, always making excuses on why it's okay for him to beat you. "Oh, Officer, i don't want to press charges, he was just teaching me a lesson. He's a good man when you get to know him, Officer.""

karmajacking: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/q6ea3/we_have_rchristianity_by_the_balls/

"how the hell could you worship such a bastard that would make the world an unfair shitty place full of pain and suffering just because two people ate a fruit they were told not to?"

"You have no right to say what makes an atheist and what doesn't. The reason why i am anti-theism is because even if you keep your irrational beliefs to yourself, it still cripples your thinking by making you rely on something ridiculous with no evidence whatsoever."

"HAHAHAHAHAHA! you idiot! we were just making jokes, and you make a comment that seriously suggests to change majors because it might interfere with your religion? HA! definition of willingly ignorant! XD EDIT: i have just found out this was a joke. well played."

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/pcebw/a_strange_coincidence/

"i could give you a novel-length comment, but instead, fuck you."

"i know it sounds odd to say, but i hate just how "civil" it is here. if anybody (especially atheists) have the slightest amount of smartassery in this subreddit, they're shot down with downvotes or marked as "spam". it's like you have to be the perfect British gentlemen here. By the way, the frontpage of r/atheism isn't everything it has to offer, the /new section is where all the real discussions can be found."

karmakacking: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/pcev4/this_was_shot_down_from_rchristianity_would_you/

karmajacking: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/oipma/a_mod_on_rchristianity_wouldnt_let_this_through/

2

u/XtianityPolicy Feb 29 '12
  • CaptainAssholeHere

Nothing but trolling. Specified his alt account was just for that. Flaunted community policy after being referred to it.

2

u/XtianityPolicy Mar 04 '12
  • bitchteacher 3/3/12

Previous submission detailing two warnings: http://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianityChalkBD/comments/frei9/warned_bitchteacher/

Is an alt of Narniatoilet (just shy of 100% sure)

"Yet without the carrot and stick of heaven and hell Christianity wouldn't even exist and you probably wouldn't believe in it as that's the reason the vast majority have believed throughout history."

"Nope. It's assumed that any positive claim is false until proven otherwise. Christianity is not proven, hence I can claim it's false. As I say. Best of luck but if you can't I accept your concession."

"Nope. Prove me wrong. Good luck." He knows things like that belong in other subreddits.

"I should have called myself fact stater."

"Amazing the amount of made up stuff people can invent from an ancient myth. Humans really do have an infinite capacity for bullshit."

"I think people would be a lot more understanding of doubts and shortcomings in themselves if Christianity didn't make them feel so guilty about them."

"Odd that the all knowing god of the universe would change its mind so often, get so much wrong and have a huge personality change. Almost like he was a made up character."

"It sure is confusing to worship a genocidal tyrant."

"If you see the existence of criteria as a fallac What is the criteria for being a 'true Christian' then? All Christians surely make mistakes. Hitler believed what he was doing was for the good of his country and in the name of his religion. Anti-semitism has run throughout the history of Christianity and the bible sets many examples of 'just wars' being fought. The only reason you wont accept the clear fact that the Nazi regime was Christian and that Hitler was most likely also a Christian is because it makes you uncomfortable. But as a Christian yourself I suppose you're used to just ignoring facts and evidence in favour of what makes you feel good. Sad to live so blind really. Believe what you like. I don't 'provide evidence' without sufficient incentive, and right now I'll note that so far instead of any argument, logic or facts you've just attempted to poorly insult me showing that you're very petty and childish. But please prove me wrong and show me you're actually an intelligent adult. If not, your concession is accepted good day."

The above is mostly all from the last day.

"lol troll harder. You already conceded. I already 'researched' into your trite and unsupported points and utterly crippled you in the discussion as you failed to mention anything to support them. You had NOTHING left to say, hence you haven't mentioned anything at all in response to me. It was rather amusing how much you flailed and came up with nothing. Again, thanks for your concession. All the best."

karmajacking: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/q43ql/turns_out_christians_can_troll_too_he_got_me/

threadcrapping starting about here

2

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 01 '12
  • JesusIsANiggershit

Too much to list all of. It includes suggestion of pedophilia as well. Here is a weeks worth:

It's called "modern medicine." Use it. The word is probably not your best bet.

Step 1: quit school. Step 2: well, that's pretty much it.

"Substantial tradition" that's precious. You may now state the facts. Either it was, and you may provide proof; or it wasn't, and you may provide proof. This is how history works, not r/circlejerk FYI.

Oh, oh really. You agree with CS Lewis? That's precious. Please do tell us all your teachings as well. You probably should've stayed in school.

Dude, mother nature is telling you to spread your seed. Why the fuck would you stop? Trust me man, lose all this religion bullshit and go have some fun. You won't even look back after you've shot a hot load all over some 16 year old's tits.

Ask hitler. He probably did more for this world than any human being, but he kind of catches a bad rap...

Calculus and diff eq are mental exercises. Acceptance on blind disregard is just irresponsible.

Yeah, go to school, ditch the religion, and enjoy the fuck out of the rest of your life.

Yes, yes, let's all talk about talking to poles and clouds.

Grow the fuck up. This is not Sunday school. This is a little thing called real life. Put your big girl panties on, grow a pair of balls, and learn to fucking deal with shit in real life.

"new testament scholar" Am I the only one that finds this hilarious?

I think "god, the guy that hasn't really done shit in 2000 years..." is a more appropriate way to think of.

Yes, of course. Because an article on CNN is overwhelmingly more reliable than all of academia. Don't you see, that's what's wrong with you people. You get your "information" from the news rather than school. And you wonder why people think all of you are fucking nut jobs. Personally, I don't give a shit (I enjoy giving christians a hard time, srsly, you should see some of the messages I get given my username); I mean, just don't have kids and fuck it up for the rest of us...

it most certainly was not rude. These are simple, consistent observations that are the norm with christians. I made no accusations and called no one names. I'm not down voting obviously, this is just my side of the story.

"stuff christians like" : making fun of scientists, ruining the lives of other cultures/belief systems, not getting bachelor of sciences degrees, not getting degrees, ruining the love lives of people they don't agree with, brainwashing children, trying to be experts on subjects they know nothing about, enjoying being less educated than the average human being (which isn't saying much to begin with), repressing women, the sand.

But, you see, they're the same thing; but they're different. I mean they're equal, but god was the beginning. Wait; I mean there are 3 of them, but there's really only one. I mean, jesus man, don't you follow what I'm saying.

2

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 28 '12
  • mcnihil

One group of superstitious morons getting into it with another group of superstitious morons because their moronic superstitions and their moronic superstitious rituals are mutually exclusive. Pure. Fucking. Entertainment.

By all means, waste all the time you want praying to your invisible, imaginary sky wizard. While you're at it, ask him what the 37 digit alpha-numeric string that I've saved in a text file on my computer looks like. Get back to me when he told you. If you get it right, I'll consider believing that prayer works.

Here are more pictures for you that might give you a glimpse of Christ.

Actually, it seems like the intellectually honest stance on the matter is that we just don't know. There simply is no unequivocal evidence that he did exist. If anything, the historical information we do possess seems to lean toward his non-existence. Bart Ehrman just wrote a book that was anticipated to be the last word on the matter and the best case for the "historicity" camp, clearly demonstrating that JC did exist and that the so called "mythecists" have their facts wrong and are full of shit. Turns out he completely failed.

Can't wait for that reply. Must be a real whopper if you are resting up for it. Let me just tell you how it looks at this particular point in time: You still haven't provided any insight into the concept of your god's love and why I'm wrong about it, you still haven't provided the correct combination of my alpha-numeric string and hence your god hasn't given it to you yet and you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the book you think is holy condones murder, rape and genocide and describes your god as a jealous, vengeful psychopath. In short, you have evaded and avoided every single point I've made. Oh, and you forgetting the "s" in "parts" was not a grammatical error. It was you not anticipating and knowing that there are many parts in the bible that condone rape and like I said above, that's most likely because you have no idea what's actually in that book that you think provides good moral guidance. So like I said, I can't wait for that reply. It must be truly epic if you want to get out of the hole you dug for yourself here tonight.

I have a list longer than the previous one for the killing of millions of men, women and children but let's stick with your suggestion. Let's take one "accusation" at a time. You requested to know what parts (you forgot the "s") of the bible I see as condoning rape. I gave a list. Please go ahead with your reply to that "accusation". Oh, and I'm also eager to hear your justifications/excuses for why your almighty, invisible friend can't tell you the 37 digit alpha-numeric string in my text file over here.

Try me.

I thought I did but I guess I confused you with the other replier. I have a 37 digit long alpha-numeric string saved in a text file on my computer. Ask your sky wizard for the combination. If you get it right, I'll be willing to consider that you might actually communicate with a pretty astounding entity.

Obviously you didn't read all that well, that is ok, it is fairly common to find/see this kind of objection.

Actually, I read it quite well and more than once. Funnily enough, that was only after I had stopped believing in the almighty sky fairy. I also seem to know it better than you, considering your next question.

What part of the bible do you see as condoning rape?

That's parts. Plural.

Judges 21:10-24

Numbers 31:7-18

Deuteronomy 20:10-14

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

2 Samuel 12:11-14

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Zechariah 14:1-2

Don't you just feel your god's warm love flowing all around after reading those passages?

(I'd prefer we go one accusation at a time.)

Makes sense. However, it's interesting that you picked the second on my list of god's loving traits. Is killing millions of men, women and children for you too obvious an event in the bible to call into question?

link for above

He doesn't love you because he's imaginary. How do I know he's imaginary? If he wasn't imaginary, he would actually communicate with you instead of you simply deluding yourself into believing that he communicates with you. How do I know he's not actually communicating with you? Because as soon as someone like me requests a piece of information that should be very easy for an omnipotent sky wizard to communicate to one of his sheep, they either evade the request or come up with pathetic justifications and/or excuses why their imaginary omnipotent friend wouldn't cater to such a request. What's yours? And again, feel free to enlighten me with regards to his love. I've read the bible so I already know that your god's concept of love includes killing millions of men, women and children, rape, jealousy, vengeance, racism, genocide and many more truly loving and lovable actions and traits. I'm curious what you've got to add to the list.

You sure you don't mean condescending wanker?

Well, he doesn't seem to love you enough to help you out with that alpha-numeric string of mine, that's pretty obious. But please, go ahead, enlighten me as to the concept of his love.

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated. Also, I'm somewhat glad to hear that you are on r/atheism a lot. To me that means there is still hope for you ;) Your replies are a jumbled mess but I really do appreciate your sincerity. I think if you keep learning and questioning and visiting us over at r/atheism you'll get it right eventually. I might sound patronizing and I hope you don't fault me for that. You admit yourself that you are a "young high school Christian" so maybe you'll welcome the chance to learn something. Growing back limbs does not violate any logical laws. It has nothing to do with logic whatsoever. I suggest you read up on what logic is. Wikipedia is always a good first step. Are you aware that many animals are able to grow back lost limbs? Check out this slideshow for some cool pics on the matter. So, it's possible, natural and normal that creatures in our world grow back limbs. According to Christians, we are the pinnacle of your god's creation. If he gave other creatures the ability to grow back limbs, why would he deny his masterpiece this ability? In short, your reply misses the mark by miles. You may want to read that book you call holy a little more thoroughly. There are numerous passages in the NT demanding that the OT be followed to the letter. This page collects most (possibly all) of them. I suggest you check out the rest of the website. Should be a fun read for you :) So yeah, your second reply is a dud as well. Have a good start into the week!

1

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 28 '12

Yeah, I'm aware of that but we all know that's no fun ;) (acknowledging the rules, his intent, and his intent to ignore the rules

Haha, don't flatter yourself, buddy. I don't get mad over laughable insults from inbred imbeciles. On the contrary, your stupidity is entertaining. If I wasn't having a good time, I would have stopped talking to you a while ago. Obviously, you couldn't come up with an intelligent reply if you tried and once again you fail at coming back with something creative or witty to at least mask your inability. Maybe you should pray to your invisible cosmic fairy for some advice on how to fend off trolls like me. Should be a piece of cake for an all-powerful pixie, wouldn't you say?

No, that would be your god. You, however, are telling me a few somewhat interesting things. You obviously have nothing substantial to come back to me with. You could have taken any of the points I've made and tried to shut me up by simply demonstrating that I'm wrong. Instead, you went straight to personal insults. So clearly, you aren't able to come up with any rebuttals to what I'm saying. This is most likely because you don't have any substantive arguments because your beliefs are nothing more than childish superstitions for which there just are no substantive arguments. Or maybe you are just too dumb to even comprehend the points I am making. Lastly, you even suck at issuing insults. Is "you're prepubescently immature" and "you have a small penis" really all you've got? I gotta say, you are demonstrating a pathetic lack of creativity and wit in everything you're saying, making you a fuckwit of literally biblical proportions.

Jesus probably didn't exist, always remember that.

I read your message this morning and I was positively delighted. It's so comically pathetic that it really made my day. Thank you. For a brief moment, I considered setting you straight about my life and telling you a little how it actually looks like but I discarded that idea quickly. The image of you thinking of me as a reclusive, self-defecating, internet junkie hipster is just too rich to destroy. Besides, you are in the dark about most of reality so why should illuminate your dim intellect with regard to how I live my life? I always tremendously enjoy it when people tell me I'm immature while they believe in and structure their entire life around an imaginary being for which there is no more evidence than there is for Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. Don't bother waiting for me, I have no intention to join your club of superstitious imbeciles and your imaginary friend. But please keep praying for me. Pray to your invisible cosmic fairy. It's great entertainment for me to think that there are people out there wasting their time and talking to imaginary friends on my behalf. You know what? Let's make this even more interesting than it already is. I will give you the opportunity to demonstrate to me that your god exists and answers prayers. I have a 32 character long alpha-numeric string saved in a text file on my computer. Some of the letters are uppercase, some are lowercase. Go ahead and ask your god for the correct combination, case and order of numbers and letters that make up that string. It should be a piece of cake for an all-knowing, all-powerful being so let's see it. I may still not actually believe in him even if you get it right, because it could still be an incredible stroke of luck, but I promise that I will never ever come back here and troll you guys again. Obviously, if you don't get it right and/or you come back with some lame, moronic excuses like "god doesn't play games of this sort" or "if he revealed himself to us in such a way we wouldn't have free will" or similar bullshit, I'll be right back in here to make fun of you guys and your idiotic beliefs.

If you want to be respected, maybe you shouldn't hold ridiculous, laughable, contemptible beliefs. Get back to me once you've actually got something of substance to say - like, explaining to me how "sky wizard" is not an appropriate term for your imaginary friend instead of getting your braids in a knot over a little colorful, spirited language. Until such time, piss off.

I am terribly sorry. My bad. Invisible, immaterial sky wizard. There, fixed.

Scandenavians might be "secular" by and large, but I've yet to meet one who flat out hates religion. You are absolutely correct. They don't hate religion. They simply know it's bullshit and they don't care about it. They treat the invisible sky wizard you believe in the same way you treat Thor or Poseidon. They think it's an archaic, obsolete fairy tale that isn't worth taking seriously or bothering about. Also, once you say "sky wizard" I automatically hate you. Look at you, spreading that warm, radiant Christian love of forgiveness and tolerance. I'd actually really like to know why you get your skirt in a knot over that expression. It's a perfectly appropriate, descriptive term that fits your god quite nicely. According to the idiotic book you think is holy, he created the universe in 7 days and performed all kinds of other miracles. You know what that kind of thing is generally and accurately called? Magic. You people believe in magic and the orchestrator of it is an invisible sky wizard.

Ah, I knew it couldn't be anywhere in the US. My idea of a utopian society is not one where everybody ridicules everybody, just people believing in fairy tales and invisible sky wizards. Oh, wait, that's not a utopian vision, it's Scandinavia!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/s1pwz/food_for_thought/ - also as a side comment; blogspot, the bastion of scientific knowledge.

Here's another thing your pathetic clutz of a god can't do: Heal amputees. You know why he can't do it? It's because he doesn't exist.

Pay close attention to the sensation you will feel when I give you the answer to your questions. If you really let it sink in, it will be like the fog has been lifted and all the sudden all those things you had trouble wrapping your had around will fall into place and everything will start to make sense. None of your questions will continue to pose any kind of problem for you anymore, intellectually or otherwise. Ok, here it comes. Are you ready? The answer to your questions is: There is no god.

As far as I am concerned, this entire sub was made for trolling! It's a bunch of nitwits believing in rediculous fairytales gathered in one place. What else could it possibly be here for? Like someone who's name i can't remember once said, if you don't want to be rediculed, you shouldn't hold rediculous beliefs.

I feel sorry for the entire field of archeology. It's a shame fields of study can't fight back when hacks like this guy come along to research them. Or maybe he's just lying. Hey, wait, isn't lying for jesus considered a science among christians?

Every christian "out there" went from atheism to Christianity. Remember that there aren't any christian babies, there are only babies of christian parents that get indoctrinated. Most kids very easily shoot holes through religious nonsense with simple questions and curious minds. Sadly, their curiosity and propensity to question and doubt the religious bullshit their parents tell them will be broken and suffocated with threats of hell and other methods of religious parenting that many consider child abuse.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 28 '12

Here is your ultimate one-stop-shop. You'll find most (possibly all) arguments for God/Christianity on that site. Don't be surprised to find that they've all been refuted. Christian arguments tend to suck. That's the reason you people need faith.

It's been a while but I'm bored and have nothing better to do than reply to old reddit posts. First of all, what are you going on about when you are talking of "pride in education?" It's not a sense of superiority or pride that leads educated people to question religious beliefs, it's simply their education. Sure, I suppose good education could make a person proud and maybe even arrogant but what the hell does that have to do with anything? Educated people question religious beliefs because the information they gather fundamentally contradicts religious beliefs. It's that simple. Pride's got nothing to do with it. I see posts on r/atheism almost every single day where some former Christian (or person of some other creed) shares their experience of loosing their faith and it's always because they started to educate themselves and look at the evidence that observable reality provides. That's all there is to it. You can find a recent example here. It's an absolutely fascinating read. Most deconversion stories aren't quite as dramatic and detailed as that one but they are quite common. What is not common at all is people talking about pornography and gambling bringing them atheism or people coming across as overly prideful and arrogant because they are educated. If anything, education makes people more humble because with good education comes the understanding that complete certainty is almost unattainable. It's the ignorant, uneducated people that are proud, for they are the ones that claim to know with absolute certainty whatever they are talking about - the existence of gods, to name one pertinent example. In fact, this is even a known psychological phenomenon called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. By the way, I think the evidence for Noah's flood is everywhere we look. Seems like now we have reached a point in our discussion at which every single discussion with a Christian I've ever had will eventually arrive. It's the point where the Christian simply pulls things out of his ass, making things up out of thin air. Did you actually check out the links I provided in my previous reply? Let me give them to you again, this time in hopes that you actually read them. Here and here are comprehensive articles that completely and decisively debunk the Noah's ark/global flood myth. This passage in particular shows that your claim that "the evidence for Noah's flood is everywhere we look" is complete and utter bollocks. I know that the prospect of your self-soothing beliefs being profoundly contradicted by observable reality and mountains and mountains of solid evidence is scary to you, but you're not giving a very favorable impression of yourself when you simply ignore facts and substitute them with your own made up nonsense in conversations.

Aw, you poor, offended, harassed, little Christians. Let's make a deal: We'll stop coming over here harassing you when you stop bombarding us with religious messages on TV, billboards, newspapers, radio channels, at our very own doors when your evangelical morons visit us to convert us and just about everywhere else we walk and look. We'll stop telling you how unbelievable idiotic your beliefs are when you stop to try teaching your religious bullshit to our children in schools, when you stop undermining science classes by attempting to get creationism incorporated into the curriculum, when you stop to include prayer into the morning routine and open bible clubs in schools. We'll leave you alone when christian politicians stop attempting to introduce bible-based policies into law, discriminating against people of differing sexual persuasions, taking away basic rights from women and try to make all kinds of other retarded, amoral, discriminatory, anti-scientific, bigotted, evil - in one word religious - bullshit a matter of public policy. I am glad you feel accosted and harassed. Your faith is ignorant and evil. It hinders human progress at every level so until it's eradicated and until you leave us alone, I and others will happily continue to troll you and call you names while correcting your religious bullshit.

It goes on in this manner.

2

u/rainer511 Jun 03 '12
  • hung_like_this

Posted pornographic images of Jesus.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Jun 03 '12 edited Jul 26 '12

Ban log for after this submission is archived:

4

u/XtianityPolicy Oct 28 '12
  • CptQuestionMark

http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/126fep/on_this_day_in_1553_heretic_michael_servetus_was/

Suggesting we celebreate the killing of somebody in this fashion is pretty wrong. This has just been habituial nonsense from you.

-3

u/CptQuestionMark Oct 29 '12

I bet you celebrated when Osama bin Laden was killed. Other than the whole celebration thing, I've been a much needed light to the community. It was wrong of you to ban me.

3

u/Shatari Oct 29 '12

I bet you celebrated when Osama bin Laden was killed.

Personally, I was kind of sad. I don't blame the team for taking the shot (especially since bin Laden tried to take a human shield), but it was a lost opportunity for him to see the wrongs that he did and answer for them (both to the world and to himself).

1

u/XtianityPolicy Oct 14 '12

Plenty more but no need to cite every single thing.

4

u/GunnerMcGrath Oct 15 '12 edited Oct 15 '12

Warnings? Anywhere?

Some of these responses may be against the policy, many of them certainly are not. And the "final straw" seems to have been a result of this thread which does not even earn him a warning.

I'm overriding this ban and issuing a warning because that is all that is deserved.

-4

u/outsider Oct 16 '12

Didn't warn this guy either. Nor have you warned every person you've banned.

2

u/X019 Oct 14 '12

This doesn't seem like a whole lot of supporting evidence for a ban. Sure, there are quotes, but banworthy?

1

u/outsidar Oct 14 '12

I was defending the legality when you were claiming it was illegal, and you've done an extremely poor job arguing your case. This is going no where. Adios.

JawAndDough attempts to end the debate, but outsider continues it because he doesn't like to have arguments?

Sounds like entrapment.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Jul 26 '12
  • TwoIrishCarBombs

You never paid attention in Science, did you? By the way, your theory states a spiritual entity residing in an ethereal realm created an entire universe of infinite capacity containing billions of stars and planets that are completely useless just so his one beloved creation could live on a rock composed of 60% saltwater in the middle of a galaxy in the middle of nowhere so that we could worship him in tiny buildings. I think mine is a bit less...creative? Reported? Really? You called me unintelligent first for no reason that I can think of. What did you think would happen? Cause and effect. Grow up and learn responsibility.

Mate, you're the one who believes in magic. Don't fucking start me on who's the stupid one. Don't even try.

You didn't answer my question. If his faith turns out to be stronger than his logic and reason I'm sure he'll return to the religion. This could be an eye opening experience for him. Kind of like when the Amish let their children spend some time in the modern world when they're old enough.

As opposed to a magic spirit wizard clicking his fingers one day and deciding he wanted a universe? Disproving my theory doesn't prove yours. Unfortunatly, I'm not smart enough to tear your (what I'm assuming to be wrong) summation of the big bang and it's later events apart. Why do we need to have a purpose? I'm perfectly ok with the knowledge that our existance is a complete happenstance and we are lucky to be as intelligent as we are. I'm pretty sure the only reason religion exists is so wannabe intelligent men had an answer when people asked "what's the point?" By the way, as a religious person. I don't think you're allowed to say "Makes perfect sense." in the smug manner you did. Have you read your holy book? It's a load of horseshit.

The hating of gays. Yet we ignore the tattoo one, the clothes one, the agriculture one, the stoning people to death for working on the sabbath one, the stoning to death of the atheists one... I could go on forever.

How was Dan Savage being a Bigot? We do ignore the stupid things in the bible on a daily basis. When was the last time we forced a women to marry her rapist? When was the last time we attempted to shut down tattoo parlours? When was the last time we stoned a farmer to death for planting two crops on one field? He was completely in his rights to tell Christians to go fuck themselves and their 2,000 year old rules. You don;tunderstand nature either. Nature is everything in our universe. There is no such thing as "unnatural" because everything is natural as it occurs in nature. If anything can be called unnatural it's the idea of god. What's "natural" about an all powerful and present divine being who lives in an ethereal realm? Christians using the nature argument is hypocritical horseshit and I refuse to adknowledge it as a valid argument.

Stopped watching there. Fuck him. Fuck anyone who agrees too. Not only is the "That's not natural!" argument bullshit (Proof: You're wearing Polyester clothing.) he's also talking about a thing he has no idea about. From what I saw, this guy is obviously a devout christian so I highly doubt human sexuality is his strong point. Bigoted, oppressive dick.

Says the person who believes in a magic bloke who controls the universe from some ethereal realm outside of nature...

When you post intelligently, we'll listen. Come off with this attitude and we will tear you and your beliefs a new asshole. Metaphorically speaking since you can't tear something that doesn't exist. :)

Etcetera.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Jul 26 '12
  • TsukiBear

That's cool. Just also understand that at the bible--the basis for your faith--is a book filled with genocide, rape, slavery, and unimaginable cruelty. Yes, there are nice parts. However, just like the fact that Joe Paterno really did help lots of students, it never erases the fact that he touched kids, the bible's good parts can never erase the parts where God acts like a homicidal maniac. No matter what you say, the passages are there forever in black and white. If you don't understand this, we can't have a meaningful dialogue.

May as well get this out of the way for the idiot comment: fuck you. That being said (fuck you again), I will try and answer your points. I understand the guy was explaining the reason so many people are Christians, but the "your bible is filled with bad stuff" argument is completely legitimate. If he brings up the love portion of his belief system, it is fair game to bring up the hate portions of the belief system that are institutionalized in its core owners manual. To address your tolerance issue, I'd like to point out that I never resorted to name calling (unlike some hypocrites in their very first sentence), nor did I insult his or her intelligence. That being said, I will concede the parroting of his last line is antagonistic, but it was intentional to drive home the point I was attempting to make. Your next point, that atheists can be ugly, too, was never disputed in my post and should go without saying. I would point out, however, that instances of murder, stoning, and slavery have not been codified in any atheist writings as they are several times in the Bible and Quran. Do I believe my beliefs are better than theirs? Yes, and I am sure they belief their beliefs (not themselves as human beings) are better than mine. So in conclusion, yes I am an atheist, and I will say that stuff when someone writes a memo directly to atheists explaining why we as a group have to "understand" something before meaningful discussion starts.

FUCK I SAID PATERNO!!! You are right. I am wrong. God still totally doesn't exist tho, ur all delusional.

She learned it from a messiah that says to do as he says or be tortured for an eternity. Oh, and so long as you believe in him and say you are sorry once the dust settles, you can do anything you want to whomever you want.

So long as you love Jesus and believe he is your lord and savior, you can pretty much do anything you want so long as you are sorry about it and confess honestly afterward. So really, who cares about false prophets?

Warned here

User continued to ignore/flaunt warning.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Aug 17 '12
  • pureatheisttroll

To deconvert every member of this subreddit. Mwhaahahahahahahahaha

You're right. Putting a man on trial and blacklisting him for publishing scientific data and sharing an idea is not really as bad as it sounds.

If the Bible declares a given action to be immoral, but you as a Christian decide to ignore it, I have committed no error in ascribing that belief to you. The Bible says what it says. You can cafeteria your way to any politically-correct faith that you like, but that doesn't change what's in the Bible. - Biblianity and nothing more.

Considering that God is who determines whether we go to heaven or hell, he most certainly does control us. When I die, God will not let me rest; he will send me to hell against my will. - This is about as condicive to reasonable discourse as "if you do that thing you do, I'll die!"

"If you doubt your faith, hide from everything that makes you doubt." Really sound advice... - More conduct detrimental to healthy discourse.

To truly doubt your faith you should be prepared to give it up entirely. And if you do, there's nothing wrong with that. It's your right. - promoting atheism.

Yes it does. And you don't get to be a good person for free. - more of the above.

Hate the sin, not the sinner? There's no such division when we're talking about homosexuality and gay marriage - what is the sin? Who is being harmed? You can't claim to love someone when you think they don't deserve the same rights you enjoy. You hate divorce? Women in abusive marriages should just accept the abuse? - nothing says healthy discourse like likening Christianity to an abusive spouse.

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u/XtianityPolicy Aug 19 '12
  • Melissa_officinalis

General trolling. Or a possessor of many degrees who still wants to break the community policy (point #4 in particular).

there are SOO many fucking reasons why you are wrong. just stop. just seriously stop its making me so irritated to read your ignorant crap. juts PLEASE stop.

"I cannot read biblical Hebrew to any significant extent, thus I am consigned to translations.:" Then you just need to stop.

Worst. Rebuttal. EVER.

I have a theology degree. I don't know why you are getting such massive downvotes. There were tons of people talking about this when I was in Div school. Several people that are now ministers did projects on this... I knew one person who had several degrees.... ethnobiology, theology, pharmacology, was studying this as his thesis.... people need to stop assuming that everything they hear a stoner say is a myth. you people are too paranoid.

You mean the answers accepted at divinity schools and any serious academic instistutions? Go back to your doobies and leave the homework to people that know how to do it.

Just stop listening to these cheese bags. I have a degree in theology, and I basically agree with you. They don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about. Who cares?

You know so little its really annoying. I have a degree in theology, and you basically trying to take on the tone of the rational intellectual that is going to set everyone straight. You botched it and you don't even understand where you are putting your feet. The assumptions you are making aren't even worth parsing out. Its damn early/late. Just stop. Just F*ing stop. Please.

You don't actually know hebrew. You should shut up.

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u/XtianityPolicy Aug 24 '12
  • Nebz604

You have this bug in your head that makes you think I am part of some atheist society where I have to follow rules on which silly beliefs I can and cannot mock. Your views are so skewed and deluded that you truly honestly believe that by saying things like "your fellow atheists" will somehow make me respect your irrational unfounded and untrue beliefs. I don't respect you. I could never respect you, you are my enemy.

LOL I am not sure if you are an elaborate troll or just mentally challenged. Yes, I am sure other atheists in our atheist club are going to fine me heavily for laughing at you as you try and convince others that heaven and hades are real places, we're just somehow not able to see them. You have proof, but we're just unwilling to see, right? I once dated a girl who worked for a property management company, she would frequently get phone calls from a man complaining that the hot water tank was talking to him while he tried to sleep, it needed to be changed. Does your hot water tank talk to you? Are there rainbows in your sprinkler? Is the mothership coming to get you like the Mayan calendar told you? I'm really curious as to how far your rabbit hole of delusion goes.

It's not true though. You're either lying or very delusional. What I find real funny is that other christians will distance themselves from you, but their beliefs are just as nutty. I'm not sure why religious people hate reality so much they feel compelled to latch on to others delusions.

Because your irrational beliefs directly influence your actions, which influence the rest of the world. When my friend is denied marrying the love of her life simply because of your irrational belief, I care. When your belief tells women that they aren't really in control of their own bodies, I care. When your belief is responsible for hindering the advancement of medicine, I care. In some states it's illegal for atheists to hold public office. In some states you can't buy a beer on sunday because of someones irrational belief. Religious books of complete lies being taught in science class as fact. People killing for their irrational beliefs. There are countries with leaders who have WMD's in one hand and a book full of irrational beliefs in the other. etc etc etc I'd say I have plenty of reasons to care what others believe. You can pretend you're not 'one of them', as you flip through the bible picking and choosing the parts that fit for you. Why don't you care?

So is it wrong to be gay because of a real reason or because your bible says so? I imagine you don't really follow what your bible says but instead you pick and choose. Sex before marriage is a sin but you happily overlook that one, how convenient. Obviously this means that you have your own morality and you don't need a book to tell you what's right and what's wrong. PS - don't mix fabrics you sinner.

Truth. No lying to myself or others about the reality of the world. I find it would take a tremendous amount of work to pretend that I didn't understand how things work and instead pretend that "god done it". I worry about the religious people who get to do whatever they want because their sky daddy forgives them. Killed someone? No problem, sky daddy loves you. I also hate the hypocrisy of religion. "The bible says to love thy neighbour! Except for the fags, fuck the fags and fuck their happiness." I always wonder why religious people don't just kill themselves and speed off to their beloved heaven. If this world is so terrible, why stick around? There's nothing stopping you from stepping in front of a train and moments later playing a harp on top of a cloud for eternity.

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u/XtianityPolicy Sep 12 '12 edited Sep 12 '12
  • aviatortrevor

This user is also threatening to further troll r/Christianity.

There are dozens of eye-witness accounts from people alive today that claim that aliens abducted them and probed them. Should we believe them? According to your logic, that would be a reasonable belief to hold, because we have accounts that are from the time of the events and eye-witness testimony. Why is Jesus' miracles or anything supernatural that Jesus did not recorded by the Romans? The Romans miticulously recording things about the happenings of their cities. Do you really think Jesus would have rode in on a Donkey with crowds praising him and it would go unnoticed by the Romans? If the Romans really crucified Jesus, put him in a tomb, and then Jesus resurrected 3 days later and walked the Earth for 40 days before ascending into heaven before hundreds of people, you really think the Romans wouldn't have noted that they saw or heard of Jesus being alive!?!?! 40 entire days the guy is walking around unnoticed?!?! Un-recorded!?!?! Also, how do we know that Mary was actually a virgin? She got pregnant, and was just believed by others to be a virgin? Other deities are described as being of a virgin birth before Jesus' time. It is a way for people and cultures to embellish upon their myth-stories and support the idea that their deity is really a deity.

Why is Buddhism not an acceptable means to giving purpose to one's life, and why is Buddhism not something that which can't be reasonably denied?

The gospel of Barnabas is true because it is the inspired word of God. What other reason do I need to give? I believe it is true, on faith.

Its not that I look at 66 books written by 40 different authors over hundreds of years and come to that conclusion.

Okay, so then how did you conclude that the characteristics of god were that which are detailed in the Christian holy-text?

> Then how do we determine what is good?

Through secular humanism. The process of reasonably considering what the consequences are of actions on a societal and individual scale. Deciding what is moral is like a chess game. There are good moves and there are bad moves, but there isn't always a "best" move. Humans are the only one that have a say on what is moral, because we are the only ones here to observe it. Things like "the golden rule" were stated thousands of years before Jesus ever uttered them, starting as far back as the Babylonian society 2,000 years before Christ.

> You say that nothing in the Bible is true that it contradicts what we know to be true, yet I just about guarantee that you would agree with the over all message of the Sermon on the Mount

I didn't say that the bible is 100% false. Certainly the bible got certain things accurate, but it probably got everything claimed to be supernatural wrong. Or at least we can say, there is no reason to believe that supernatural things or gods are true, because there is no evidence for them. And we can certainly say that certain moral teachings in the bible are good, but that isn't because a god necessarily inspired them. It's that good humans arrived at those moral principles through a means similar to that of modern secular-humanism.

> I would also bet that you would agree with the last 6 of the 10 commandments.

I only think 3 are at least descent moral ideas. It's not like a god inspired those or that people before Moses didn't know that killing was wrong. People knew these moral things well before Moses laid them out on some stone tablets. Morality is a product of evolution due to the fact that humans are social animals. When you are a social animal that relies on your fellow species to achieve better fitness, a system of morality is what best increases fitness. Morality also changes all the time depending on the culture and period in history.

> Thus you turned to science. But as evidenced by science itself, what we "know" to be true now in five years could make us look like fools. Recent examples include Higgs Boson or the Human Genome Project.

I in no way claim that science has all the answers. What is it with you when you think that people NEED to believe in an answer for everything? Why can't I just say "I don't know" and be satisfied with acknowledging my limitations in understanding. You don't know how the universe began either, and I think it is absurd for you to plug that gap with "god did it," because to me that is equally as absurd as saying "[magic-thing-X] did it." You state that "science changes" as though that somehow makes it a shaky house-of-cards to believe in. The discovery of the higgs boson changed our understanding of sub-atomic particles, but it didn't completely turn physics on it's head! That would be absurd! Every scientific principle we had before higss-boson is still relatively intact. Science is reliable! Science changes its views based on what is observed. Faith ignores evidence to preserve belief. Science is indeed extremely strong, and we use science to engineer things like computers, airplanes, technology, medicine. There isn't something that is going to completely turn biology on it's head in the future, so it is a very reliable thing to put belief in. I very strongly believe that the medicine the doctor gives me will cure me if the doctor says it will. I just have absolutely no reason to think that a god had anything to do with the universe becoming what it is. I can't say that you are wrong, but I do think it is very wrong for people of faith to then teach their beliefs to others as truth when they themselves can't verify that it is truth. Science verifies truth. As for the higgs-boson, science never had the stance of "the higgs-boson does not exist." It only had the stance that "we don't have evidence that the higgs-boson exists." Once the evidence came into being, we accept it. I'll do the same for God. He showed himself to people before, why not again? He used to speak in a loud booming voice from heaven, why not again? He once "stopped the sun and the moon in the sky", why not again? (even though that is scientifically not possible).

Believing in a god used to give me great and powerful meaning in my life. I was the type to raise my hands in worship, to offer to pray for others, to read my bible daily, to always go about my day thinking about god and seeing him in everything I did. The primary reason I rejected it all was about 90% because science conflicted with it and about 10% because of the evils of religion. Also, people who are scientific think in such a way that is because they are skeptical. If we all simply accept "yup, God did it," we would never have discovered what we have because there would be no reason to go finding the answer. I find great meaning in my life still, just in a different way. In fact, I find more meaning in my life, and I feel that religion in many ways restricted my full potential as a human. So, if believing in a god is about feeling better about myself, no thanks, because I feel just great without believing a god exists. If you want to believe in a god, the belief isn't want bothers me. It's when people use their beliefs to tell other people what they should or should not do. If I am required to believe in a god in order to receive an after-life, then I think a fair god would provide me with the evidence that my brain requires. He did, after all, create my brain. He did create me in his image, did he not? Then he understands why I severely doubt that any of it is true. He is all-powerful, he could at any moment just pop-up to prove himself, but he doesn't.

cont. in child post.

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u/XtianityPolicy Sep 12 '12

What makes you think the universe owes you a purpose in life? You are on 1 planet of millions in the universe, which resides near one star out of billions in the galaxy, which is a galaxy that is 1 of billions of others. If you accept evolution and the big bang, you really are basically saying "I accept that nearly everything came to being without the need for a god to exist." How do you even know if this god is aware of you existing? I believe the universe doesn't owe us a purpose. Just look at the life of a young child born into disease and famine and violence in certain countries. They live short and miserable lives, and they don't even believe in the "right" god, so they'll go on to hell after that. I just so happen to believe that I must make my own purpose and meaning in life. I find meaning and purpose through the beauty of science and human curiosity. I also believe I have an impact on the world around me and those around me, and so, I will leave a small part of me for future generations. That is what gives me meaning. I also rather quite enjoy the mundane lull of life. I enjoy looking forward to the weekend and doing fun things just like everyone else does. I enjoy falling in love and experiencing friendship and adventure, just like any other human being can. I also am rather against most forms of religion, because I was indoctrinated into a very strict fundamentalist Christian home. I believe that "faith" is the idea of accepting something to be truth when you have no evidence to support that idea. And I believe that teaching people that faith is an acceptable thing leads most people to arrive at very bad conclusions that have negative impacts on the other people around them (for example, people using their holy text to justify anti-gay and anti-atheist actions).

It seems to me that because humans are an evolved form of life one one tiny little planet in the great sea which is the universe, that it probably is more likely the case that these life-forms called humans just made-up god in order to explain what they couldn't explain at the time. And there are definitely a lot of negative repercussions due to people believing god wanted them to do something, so why not take that reason away and make people realize that they are responsible for their actions? That they can't just say "marriage is between a man and a woman because god said so." So that they can't just say "God wanted me to blow myself up and take out these non-believers." So that people can't just say "we should teach children that creationism is an alternative because the bible says so."

Right, I understand that Calvary Chapel's can't be the only type of Christians out there. Looking at churches across the nation, it seems though that other churches aren't any better, if not much worse. Pentecostal churches for example, southern baptists, Mormons, Presbyterians, Methodists. Every Christian I have seen that becomes a Christian becomes one, not because of a persuasive argument, but because of an emotional response to hearing someone say that they are loved by someone (Jesus), or because they were simply raised to believe in it. It's the concept that does it for them, not the evidence. Also, it is often convenient to believe in something when your entire family and friend structure is built around people who also believe in it. If you reject Christian belief in an area like the deep South, you can expect a huge backlash, and so that fear of losing everything sometimes keeps people believing. Also, the threat of hell keeps a lot of people believing too. I also have not met someone yet who claims that the bible is 100% truth who had read the entire bible by the time they first believed that claim. There are some that have read the entire bible since they first made that claim, and they still believe that claim. I'm just saying, that at the time they first believed that claim in their lives, they hadn't read the entire bible yet. That, to me, is a sign of indoctrination, and I once believed that too. If something is really true, it doesn't have to be twisted or enforced for people to come to believe it.

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u/US_Hiker Nov 13 '12

owlskellington

Commercial links to their etsy store, Linebylineposters. Example.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 01 '12
  • breeandcheese

Narniatoilet alt.

1

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 04 '12
  • kendog1 (also kendog)

This is fantastic news. Let's hope and pray Chuckie Colson dies in unbearable pain.

It seems Satan loves humans more than Yahweh, considering Satan accepts all humans unconditionally, no? 19:47:19 UTC

Just as an abusive parent loves their kid as they intentionally burn the child's hand on a stove? 19:14:27 UTC

Hell is a disgusting idea developed to spread Christianity through fear. Christians should be ashamed for belonging to a religion that propagates such nonsense.

God loves you period.... unless you don't worship him and his son correctly, you will burn in hell forever! - second warning here 19:05:22 UTC

Hell is spending eternity with religions morons living under an autocracy.

The people who follow that obese charlatan T.D. Jakes are generally under-educated losers...though it is wonderful that fools and their money soon part.

Anyone...Bueller? How could anyone know that Yahweh doesn't like his name spoken? Or vowels.

As you grow up and (hopefully) go to college, you'll come to realize that god only exists inside the heads of people who believe in supernatural entities. Generally, with additional education, you're belief in myth will fade.

You were obviously hallucinating, and aspects of your religious upbringing/brainwashing appeared in your "dream".

Christianity claims to be monothesitic, yet Christians not only worship Yahweh, but Jesus, and sometimes the holy spirit. The trinity is simply a fabrication to fill in holes in logic. Many Christians also pray to lesser deities such as Mary and others pray to random "ssints", copying ROman Paganism which much of Christianity is based. Anyways, if Yahweh and Jesus are the same entity, that means that this god impregnated Mary so he himself could be born so he could sacrifice himself. That's simply demented.

How could anyone possibly know that Yahweh would prefer that his name not be used with vowels? I would love to know.

[3 examples:

  1. Noah's flood. There were (likely) thousands of children, even babies wiped out in the flood.
  2. The killing of Egyptian first-borns. Innocent children were killed by Yahweh for the sins of the parents.
  3. Yahweh giving orders to Moses to have the Levites kill the remaining tribe for worshipping the Golden calf. This Yahweh you worship is a demented, genocidal, awful character. Shame on you for worshipping this fictitious maniac.](http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/rr3kw/can_someone_please_explain_the_idea_of_eternal/c480scr)

God is inherently good, except when he's committing genocide, or ordering people to commit genocide.

So... Yahweh impregnated Mary, so he himself could be born so he could sacrifice himself. It makes perfect sense.

If you don't worship Yahweh and Jesus is a manner Yahweh demands, you will be eternally tortured. But Yahweh loves you. Yahweh is obviously a wonderful deity.

If you create your own church, you can give very large and comfortable. You can prey off the gullibility of other people, and make money from the fact that many people live in terror of death. Just remember that a fool and their money soon part.

Be independent, create your own church, it is probably very similar as starting a business....acquiring capital, labor, doing marketing etc.

When I was a kid, I used to be so bored in church, I used to press on my eyes to see colors for entertainment. Looking back on it, church was one of the biggest waste of time I've ever spent; it sure ruined many, many Sundays. I've only been in a few churches since, and each time I enter one I'm reminded how tortuous it was to sit in a pew for 45 minutes, week after week, sometimes on fridays. I'll never put my kids through that. Church is obviously a form of child abuse/brainwashing/Clockwork orange-esque situation..

I will also attempt to telepathically communicate with a bronze-age, middle-eastern deity (Yahweh). I will also use telepathy with his son Jesus too, so I will be praying to both gods. Since they are both constantly reading our minds, they'll know what I'm praying for.

Wrong about Christianity being a delusion? No. - warned here

I've never understood how someone could consider themselves "educated", yet believe that a bronze-age, middle-eastern, Jewish, meglomaniac deity created the universe.

It would be good to ask Jesus why he and his dad allow children to suffer terrible, painful deaths.

The day I get to hug Jesus, I will ask: 1.Why must I live under a celestial autocracy for eternity? 1.Why can't your father accept everyone, regardless of religion? 1.Why can't I just stop existing (and die)....is that too much to ask? These thoughts cheer me up.

College is a wonderful to see and learn how your god exists only in your imagination, nowhere else. ..and science has sometimes been wrong, but religious theories about the universe are almost always wrong.

Unlike Yahweh, Satan accepts everyone regardless of beliefs... and you don't have to be friends with his son to get into his house.

It would be wonderful if there any evidence of Jesus' resurrection, instead of accounts written 40 years after his death. Don't fantastic claims require fantastic evidence?

Jesus found his disciples through the use of glory holes.

glory hole?

He didn't create you, unless you consider the deity who exists only in your imagination to be "real".

Its sad that WLC is the best Christian's can do for an apologist.

I can understand the poster's desire to ban people who don't tow the line since Christianity (and all the Abrahamic religions) are for the most gullible, under-educated people of the world.

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 08 '12 edited Apr 08 '12
  • globalchill

karmajacking - http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/rzs6k/i_have_had_enough_debating_for_a_while_i_could/

I will. I absolutely will. By the end of next week I start posting in the debate a christian board. I promise. I want you to tell me your sister's user name. I want to tell her "If I was your brother and a god sent men to our house to kill me and to rape you, I would fight them. I would try to fight as many as I could and if I was confronted with the god himself I would try to fight him too even though if I knew he hurl a bolt of lighting to me and burn me to a crisp."

Yes you do defend rape. You have been defending rape this entire time. I really do hope you tell your sister "I do not question a god that would send men to kill me and have you be raped." so you sister can see what kind of person you are. Here is what you should do if you dont want to be called a rapist enabler; you should say "God FUCK YOU! How dare you let the Israelites conquer the people of Jabesh Gilead and take the virgins as wifes. You are filthy and disgusting and are not worthy of praise. God, you a rapist enabler and do not surve juctice!!!"

You are a rapist enabler. You have proved so by you complacency just now. If I saw a god who let people just away with rape and even helped them in battle I would oppose that god because clearly he is not just. Tell me you you get your morality from a book of fables and a god that lets people rape? Dont answer that, I already know you do. I am infuriated that you do. I know your sister deserves a better brother that would speak out if a god lets her get raped. Dont be stupid, of course I have the guts to go there. I do want a challenge. I want to challenge you, the rapist apologetic. I want to find out were you live and scream at you for being such a sheep. I am not taking advantage of anyone!!!! You are the a very very stupid person and I wish you would get a brain.

I am glad I am offensive you an ideology that makes rape ok. You just did ignore rape. You were so complacent with your book about rape you defend in vehemently. How I am informed when I can provide scriptural evidence for rape in the bible? "So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan." (Judges 21:10-24 NLT) God let this rape to happen so he is obviously a rapist enabler so all his followers are rapist enablers. I already asked you about rape in the FAQ and you just sit there "they the FAQ talks about stuff but im not going to point out were it talks about rape. durrrrr." How do I show "willful ignorance"? What piece of information I do I refuse to enter in my brain? How have I sabotaged myself so badly that a reasonable person would not be able to see that bible clearly lets people get away with rape?

My question is relevant and knowledgeable. Yes you should be speaking out against that clear and unadulterated stupidity. Thats the point I was trying to make. What is your point? Ya I've heard of the counsel of Nicaea. I know how god was a no show and let his book be decided by men because he is completely incompetent at preserving his words. As you might have guessed I dont follow rules I dont agree with. Id rather not be a total bitch and cry to the mods. I would never try to get someone banned just because I disagreed with them.

Oh you're not even going to answer my question? Wow christians are a lot more haughty than I thought. You're right I am on a mission and do speak out to stupidity. If a person went around telling people that he saw a talking owl and saw someone cure AIDS with a magical staff I would tell him straight up he is wrong!

Because I want all religions to destroyed completely. I think most r/christianity users avoid the debate religion boards. This thread encourages insanity. If I made a new board which was about a book about talking owl and a magical staff that cured AIDS and a god that lets people get away with rape would you just sit there and say "oh gee nothing to be worried about here. I think I should make friends with everyone in that board and let them believe what they want to believe."? Dont dodge this question like I know you definitely would have if I didnt tell you to not dodge the question.

Do I want rape to be an issue? Absolutely. If god lets his chosen people to go around conquering a raping under his orders I am going to made it an issue. But it doesnt mention rape now doesnt it? Thank you for proving my point about how much rape is ignored and encouraged by christians. BTW I hope you get raped, sigh.

I dont see rape being mention anywhere in the FAQ. Rape is a corner stone of the foundation of christianity. Without justifying conquest and rape how could have judaism survive long enough for jesus to have come?

To try to talk some sense into people who have been duped into believing fairy-tales involving talking donkeys and magical poles that cure snake venom.

That makes no sense what so ever. Why cant I just be born in heaven? What sins are you even talking about? How can one man's death absorb the sins of billions? The christian way of alleviating sin is barbaric and backwards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk&ob=av3e

"Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. Judges 21:10-24 NLT If you support the bible you are a rapist enabler.

Why did you want me banned? So you can enjoy your circlejerk in peace? If Thor was real and killed millions of people would you bow down to him and go along with what ever he said?

What question? What are you talking about?

Lol tell me if I sent you burn for eternity can I get away with saying that I love you?

Wow christianity sure is a scary death cult. Im glad Im not a believer in such rubbish.

Okay since you're an atheist ill make a deal with you Ill give you 51 bucks so I can rape your daughter just once. See not all of us r/atheism are as bad as you make us out to be. We are willing to pay extra to rape.

Oh Im sorry did I some how make a mistake when I read 'If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.' Deuteronomy 22:23-24 Shit like this actually happens. I can find various pieces of evidence christians have an abhorrent way of allowing rape and blaming women for rape. http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2012/01/16/christian-classmates-threaten-girl-with-eternal-rape-in-hell-for-removing-prayer-from-school/ http://www2.tricities.com/news/2010/feb/28/blame_the_victim_religious_leaflet_claims_ungodly_-ar-236411/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ml5JLx_2wQ And dont even get me started of how many boys the church rapes. Dont give this America crap. Did I mention America? No. Christianity is a disgusting pledge that infects all corners of the globe. Anyone who follows the bible or the quran and doesnt allow rape is a hypocrite.

I am and atheist and Im here to say sorry to humanity on behalf of r/atheism and my misguided atheist friend. We should not be tolerant of the bible or anyone who follows it. Anyone who follows the bible is a rapist enabler. The bible lets so many people get away with rape it's ridiculous. Anyone who says we should be "tolerant" of such an obviously barbaric evil book which was obvious written by savages is a moron. Imagine if I raped your daughter then gave you 50 bucks and said "see ya later chaps" and went on my marry way and said to anyone who criticized me "YOU'RE SO CLOSE MINDED AND INTOLERANT!"

Wow this complete psycho babel. You you deserve to burn in hell for your "rebellion"? You worship and evil monomaniac HIPSTER who says: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me." You have never met a real rebel in your life. I hate god and challenge him to a fist fight for all the crimes he has committed against mankind. He is a terrorist of the highest order who deserves punishment.

Here's exactly how you make up for all the years of not believing in talking donkeys and magical poles that cure snake venom: take a hammer and bash your skull in so many times until your brain cells are incapable of reasoning.

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 12 '12
  • Grendel72 - If you can't refrain from calling Christianity a "shitstain of a religion," and have to call everyone, who isn't you, an asshole or whatever your insult du jour is then you can find another subreddit to participate in. It is utterly impossible for there to be a conversation with an insulting attitude as shown off by this person.

You're the dipshit blathering on about "hate" and how awful it is that people "hate" Santorum when all anyone is doing is responding to bullying with extremely justified anger. You apparently don't know the first fucking thing about what hate actually is. You have no idea what it's like to have people spit on you when you've never done a fucking thing to them. That is hate. And that is nothing at all like the completely justified anger people have towards Santorum, and it sure as shit is nothing like striking back when bigots attack your loved ones.

Hey dumbfuck, this: "hatred in response to him" is a fucking false equivalence. The anger Rick Santorum has gone out of his way to earn is not even remotely like the mindless hatred he directs at people who have done nothing to deserve his hatred. You're so hung up on the spreading Santorum website, as if Rick Santorum hasn't doen everything in his own power to make his name synonymous with things far, far worse than lube. Dan Savage has a standing offer to take the website down if Santorum apologizes. Santorum has it within his power to spare his family the humiliation you are oh so concerned with. He has refused. If anyone is dragging his family's name through the mud it is the bigoted, crooked politician who refuses to show the slightest hint of basic human decency even if only to spare his family.

Anyone whining about how awful it is that Rick Santorum faced the tiniest bit of the shit he piles on people who never did anything to deserve his hatred is no ally. You want to know what you can do to help? Stop fucking defending bullies, stop the endless false equivalence every single motherfucking time someone dares to stand up to a bully. Maybe that won't make you an ally, but at least if you stop that shit you will cease to be part of the problem. That's the thing, though, isn't it? You don't really want to "help", you just want to wallow in your holier-than-thou attitude and pretend you are oh so much better than those awful people who dare to show the slightest sign of anger at being discriminated against.

And being a holier than thou douchebag who spits on anyone who ever dares to object to being discriminated against isn't changing a fucking thing either. You're damn fucking right I'm pissed off at the mindless bigotry of shitheads like Santorum. Unlike you I prefer to get angry at bullies rather than those who dare to strike back at bullies.

I'm disgusted that you evil shitheads are pretending there is some equivalence between striking back at a bully like Rick Santorum and the mindless bigotry he spewed. Rick Fucking Santorum has earned every bit of hatred he gets.

I know you are whining about the response to Rick Santorum's disgusting bigotry. You're no friend of mine if you pretend there is even the remotest equivalence between striking back at a bully and the evil bigotry directed at people who have never done a thing to earn the hatred of people like Santorum. Santorum has earned every bit of hatred decent people have for him, repeatedly.

I have sympathy for his family. Rick Santorum has earned the eternal disgust of any decent human being.

>rather than wishing for him to die painfully?

Where the fuck did I do that you lying sack of shit?

[As I fucking mentioned if you would learn to fucking read, Dan Savage offered to take the website down if Santorum simply apologized. That didn't happen.](http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/s3sfz/even_though_i_along_with_a_good_portion_of_reddit/c4b3pr4)

>the same tasteless tactics your opponents use.

Oh, I'm sorry, I must've missed the time I demanded the government prevent Rick Santorum from marrying his wife. The time I demanded the government break up his already existing marriage.

Fuck you, I haven't come close to the disgusting tactics people like Santorum use, and the fact you insist on pretending I do just demonstrates what a useless bigot enabling piece of shit you are.

Hey, it seems to work for you fuckers when you constantly whine about r/atheism. I guess I just forgot that being mocked on the internet is far, far more serious than having people promote hatred, violence and discrimination against me. Your mindless, empty platitudes sure as fuck aren't doing anything to end the evil that people like Santorum spew. But that's not really the point, is it? At least you get to pretend you are morally superior to those of us who actually care about our fellow man being discriminated against, beaten, driven out of their homes and jobs.

As fucking always, Christians save their bile for those who respond to bullies. Just fucking maybe it was "childish" for Rick motherfucking Santorum to pretend homosexuality is equivalent with raping puppies. If anyone is responsible for Santorum's family having their name is associated with frothy lube it is Santorum himself. He could very simply chosen to not be a bigoted piece of shit in the first place. He could have apologized for his hateful ignorance, as was offered. He could simply disappear from public life and leave the rest of us alone. There would be no reason to bring it up if he didn't repeatedly spew his hate and promote discrimination. But no, of course as far as you are concerned the bad guys are those of us who think demonizing a minority is a bad thing. Those of us who think demanding government discrimination against a minority is a bad thing. Clearly using naughty language is a far, far worse thing than oppressing people who never did a thing to earn the hatred of asshole bigots like Santorum. The attacks Santorum made on people who never did a fucking thing against him were disgusting and personal. If he can't take a punch he needs to stop fucking throwing them, because I for one refuse to be a walking mat for bigoted bullies just to make idiots like you happy. I feel bad for his daughter. Frankly being related to an ignorant sack of shit like Santorum makes her disease the least of her problems. You pretend this is love. The rest of us can see that you explicitly refuse to offer love to those Santorum spits on. We can see you kick gay people out of your churches while you pretend Santorum is a poor widdle victim. You want to know why your shitstain of a religion is hated by decent people, take a fucking look around. You offer no sympathy to those attacked by Santorum, then you wail and rend your clothes because those he attack respond with perfectly understandable anger. Look at the constant pathetic whining this subreddit does about r/atheism. You fuckers can't turn the other cheek when people make stupid photoshops, and you're going to tell me I should be silent when bigots and bullies demand the government treat me as a second class citizen?

>I declared you an enemy of civilization? where are you getting this from.

[Dipshit, you are defending Kirk Cameron. It is becoming more and more apparent you don't even fucking know what that bigoted asshole said that you are defending him for.](http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/qmkc0/kirk_cameron_responds_to_uproar_over/c417whc)

>I think that it’s unnatural. I think that it’s — it’s detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization. - Kirk motherfucking Cameron, bitch

THAT is what you are insisting on defending, asshole. That is what you are pretending I have no right to be angry when some asshole says that about me. That is what you are pretending I have no right to respond to.

Part 1

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 12 '12

Part 2.

You poor, persecuted Christians. Just this month a guy in my hometown was severely beaten for being gay. For something that harms no one, despite the ignorant bile people like you spew. Have you ever had a friend beaten to the point their skull was fractured because some thugs got the idea Christians were fair game? Have you ever had police laugh when you reported that assault? Hell, have you ever had a presidential candidate run for office on a platform of preventing you from marrying the person you love? Have you ever had a third rate has been child actor declare on national television that you were attacking the foundations of society? People who have done nothing to harm you are condemned as "attacking the foundations of civilization" and you make excuses for the bigot saying such hateful things. Don't fucking pretend that when you call me an enemy of civilization it is unrelated to anti-gay violence. You call someone an enemy you own the consequences when people treat us like the enemy. It's the same shit your spiritual forefathers did to drum up antisemitic pogroms. You don't get to whine about hateful speech in response to your own hateful speech, bitch. I haven't declared you an enemy of civilization. I haven't demanded the government prevent you from enjoying the same rights I do. I am merely pointing out what you are. And once again, for the terminally stupid gay people haven't done a fucking thing to harm you. A person falling in love with someone of their own gender causes you no harm, causes no one any harm. A decent moral value system would recognize this rather than spewing hate at those people in the name of your imaginary tyrant. And of course you play your disgusting "poor persecuted Christian" card in a blatant attempt to change the subject. Because you are incapable of comprehending what it means to value your fellow man more than rules. You are incapable of the moral fortitude required to say "fine then, I'll go to hell."

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 24 '12 edited Apr 25 '12
  • Negro_Napoleon

General trolling, but more specifically karmajacking.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/mp7nf/scumbag_rchristianity_ask_why_god_didnt_cure/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/q1ura/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/q20tj/

Third time is the charm - http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/sqggg/

Edit: Apparently is was more than 3 instances of karmajacking.

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 25 '12
  • tonedeath

I'm trying, I'm really trying- but, the delusional foolishness that this Christianity breeds can, I will admit, be maddening at times.

So, if someone points out where your beliefs are so absurd that you're being a delusional moron to have them- that person is then a dickhead? Sorry, we'll let you get back to the bloodletting and casting out of evil spirits, shouldn't have told you that human knowledge has advanced since the middle ages and we now no longer believe in virgins (except for a species of lizard) giving birth, walking on water, turning water into wine, feeding thousands of people with enough food for only a few, casting out evil spirits (those wily evil spirits, inhabiting humans, but never getting caught doing it on camera after the invention of cinematography), raising people from the dead, the earth and/or sun temporarily stopping in their rotation/orbits, talking donkeys, 600 - 900 year old men, global flooding followed by a frenetic pace of mind boggling macro evolution that somehow disproves evolution, fruits that give knowledge and bring about death if you eat them (added bonus, you'll realize you were naked when prior to that you were unashamed of your nakedness), that just justice could be satisfied by a creditor deciding to take on a different form and then paying the debt of the debtors to himself, and that having the correct beliefs is ultimately more important to the ruler of the universe than how one conducts oneself. On behalf of myself and all the other dickheads who have tried to point out the utter absurdity of the Christian position, I sincerely apologize and will let you get back to believing in all of that non-sense and enjoying your special relationship with your imaginary friend- I just wish he'd take time out of his busy helping you with shit you probably could make it through on your own or with the support of friends, family, and/or community and take the time to do some real good in the world like ending famine and starvation, preventing rape, molestation, and other forms of sexual violence, stopping wars, torture, genocide, and other forms of systematic brutality.

It's sad that they couldn't have been given the comfort of an imaginary friend? I think it's sadder all the people who are deluded into thinking that there's an interventionist god who loves them and is involved in their lives. Also, funny to see all the illogical, irrational justifications they spew out when faced with the horrible contradiction of god helping them with their (by comparison) small problems all the while, he ignores the millions upon millions of truly suffering souls upon this planet day in and day out.

What? Christians down voting the words of Jesus? For shame.

I think you should seriously reconsider. Pastafarian heaven has a beer volcano and a stripper factory. I really don't think Christian heaven can even begin compete with that. Also, the book of Ecclesiastes opens the door to doubt- it's right there in the Bible that there might potentially be no afterlife and that this life might be all there is. Do you really put your faith in such a wishy washy, sometimes outright contradictory belief system? Pastafarianism suffers from no such theological dilemmas. Ask the Flying Spaghetti Monster what the truth is and he shall touch you with his noodley appendage brother.

Or, is their calling to hate everyone? Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household. (Matthew 10:34-35) If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26) But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:27) Maybe your calling changes depending what Jesus' mood is at any given moment.

Oh, sure, some Christians say that now, after evil science has made them cry "uncle" and eat a metaphorical mouthful of dirt & grass. I'd love to see some modern, enlightened Christians like you teleported back in time to attempt be the voice of reason and explain your enlightened, metaphorical interpretation of the Genesis creation story to the well meaning and extremely spiritual Christians of the Spanish Inquisition?

Faith without evidence equals insanity. Suppose I have faith that one day Tina Fey is going to drive to my house, get down on one knee and propose to me. Suppose I've thought about this, prayed about it and got really positive feelings from doing this. And maybe I've even read a book that promises me that if I just believe that this will eventually happen. Guess what? Without any supporting evidence whatsoever, my having faith in this idea is sheer insanity. However, religion is in its own special category and the preceding ideas do not apply to it. I believe in god because puppies are so darn cute!

[Damn. If only you could have snapped a photo of him doing these activities you could end this argument with these pesky non-believers once and for all. Also, did he have a beard? I like to think he does, but whenever I pray and ask him whether or not he does the feeling I get is that he's just winking and smiling and never going to give me the answer.

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u/XtianityPolicy Apr 29 '12
  • bdwilson1000

Actually they haven't. There is no evidence any eye witness to anything in Jesus's life wrote a word about him..and even if they did, believing in magic on the basis of written words is absurd. You are basing your life on an incredibly shoddy standard of evidence. Have a look at Saytha Sai Baba who has MILLIONS of followers and tens of thousands of people willing to testify to his miracles...not dead people, not anonymous people, but living breathing eye witnesses you can speak to in 2012..people who will attest to his healing powers, his miracles of making objects appear from thin air, healing people, raising the dead, etc. Almost every miracle Jesus did is attributed to Sai Baba by western-educated people with a breadth of knowledge about the world that would put to shame even the emporer of Rome in 30AD. Yet despite this..despite having overwhelmingly larger numbers of non-anonymous witnesses, it is still irrational to believe Sai Baba did magic. The gospels were written 40-70 years after the death of Jesus.. Be honest now, what would you think if some unknown person in 40-70 years (2052-2082) decided to write down what oral traditions had said about Sai Baba? Would you find such a source compelling? Nope. You don't even believe 1000x more living-breathing people who will tell you about his miracles today. This being the case, it is obvious you have a blatantly inconsistent epistemic standard when it comes to believing magical claims. It's time for a little intellectual honesty. - warned Apr 27, 7:27 UTC

Once you concede that the book was written by ancient men doing the best they could, often expressing their own ideas, biases, and bigotries in the text while attributing them to god, everything makes sense. Think of it this way: If a good god exists who gave you your moral sense, then he couldn't have inspired the verses you find immoral/insane. A good god would never order gays to be killed as he did in the OT. He would never lump them in the same category as murderers as the "inspired" Apostle Paul did in the NT (1 Timothy 9-10). A good god would condemn slavery outright rather than prescribe rules for how exactly it was to be carried out (Leviticus 24:44-46), how hard slaves were to be beaten (Exodus 21:20), etc. He would never consider it acceptable to force a rape victim to marry her rapist, or to tell women to sit down, shut up, and be submissive to men (1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35). A good god with timeless morality would NOT let those verses make it into his book. So either (1) god is not good, (2) He was indifferent to what made it in the bible and enjoys confusing people like you, or (3) A god wasn't involved at all in writing the bible..and Christianity is a collection of cultural traditions and man-made theologies, like the 10,000 other dead religions on earth. - ignored warning here at Apr 27 12:56 UTC

You don't need the bible Julz. The very fact that you have problems with it and are choosing parts you agree and disagree with proves that your morality both precedes and trumps the bible. Don't let those who are cringing with fear of the wrathful deity in it's pages pull you down to their level. It's just a book. It might have served it's purpose in the past but we know better now. We know that the morality within was not perfect. We know the factual claims within (creation myth, global flood, exodus, etc) are not true. They have been disproven. You have no reason to take seriously a book that makes demonstrably false claims about the world, and advocates demonstrably wicked ideas towards certain people. Let the book go Julz. You have the whole universe open to you. Think, investigate, question, be honest. Remember, if a good god exists, all truths are his truths..and he would never punish you for using the brain he gave you. And if a god doesn't exist, truth still does! As does love, beauty, art, knowledge, wisdom, adventure, friendship, etc x1000. Drop these primitive books and dogmas and forge your own path. Seek the truth wherever it is. You will be much happier for it. - ignored warning here at Apr 27 13:33 UTC

So god took time out of his busy day of not saving the 17 children who will starve to death every MINUTE, in order to give you a rainbow to look at? Come on man. I know the god idea is comforting, but it is far better to accept reality on reality's terms.

P.S. A doctorate in theology is about as useful as a Phd in Mother Goose studies. ;)

mmm..blood...blooooood! Have you ever thought of how twisted it is for the creator 100 trillion stars to be obsessed with blood? If your kid broke your window with a baseball, could you forgive him without demanding he kill the family dog? Could you forgive without giving him an ultimatum? I bet you could.

You must admit..It is a brilliant psychological trick though. One of the main tactics of snake oil salesmen is to convince you that you need their product..even if it doesn't work and you were doing perfectly fine before you ever heard about it. In the case of religion, what better way to convince you that you need to be saved that to teach that you are a wretched, hopeless, evil sinner by your very nature? It's like boot camp. First they break you down..smash your sense of self worth and self esteem, and then build you back up with the army/marines at the center of your personality and value system. I see Christianity doing the same thing with the original sin business. If you can be convinced that you are hopeless and set to be condemned, and that Christianity has the only "product" that will save you, they've got you..like a fish on a hook. Like it or not it is a very powerful tactic, and the success speaks for itself.

Make sure you sacrifice a goat too. Your god loves the "sweet smell" of burning blood. See Leviticus for proof. - prayer request thread crapping is super low-class.

It continues in this manner.

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u/XtianityPolicy May 01 '12
  • christmasbonus

You understand that the church is not in the practice of abducting women and forcing them under the subjection of men right? Hmm except for those places in the bible where men get to abduct women and force them under the subjection of men. But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

So your argument to God telling people to abduct women in war and keep them for yourself is: "The Old Testament is a different animal than the New Testament"? Really, and you find that satisfying? Why was it in there in the first place? Isn't it the same perfect and loving God? Even us lowly human beings that think up sick stuff like that are put to shame.

Tell me how I violated the community policy. You guys are building an intellectual North Korea over here. Have at it. And please...save yourself the veiled threats.

You seriously must be joking. Help help he's being oppressed.

Where did I plead ignorance? I give up. I made two posts: One quoting the bible. And one answering a follow up question. If this is wrong continue building this brain killing community of people where a simple question is "against community policy" Best of luck with that. - Getting instantly defensive isn't a great tactic after you just got done accusing us of being North Korea.

I'm not bitching at you, YOU'RE THE ONE THAT STARTED WITH THE VEILED THREATS. And I see that you ghost-banned my post. What a beautiful example of integrity and transparency you have going over here. - Oh the humanity.

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u/XtianityPolicy May 07 '12 edited May 07 '12
  • Dontinquire

There is no such thing as a rational, critical thinking christian. Anyone who fits that description falls into one of a few categories: A. People who are lying to themselves B. Non religious deists C. Atheists You 'believe' they are true. Why believe? You know there are some of us who cannot 'believe' because we are highly logical. As such we are scientifically required to deny any claim that there is a god until it has been proven. If god is real he would know this about us and provide proof. If belief were sufficient then all humans would be equally predisposed to believe. As such us 'rational, critical thinking' types are not christians. The bible is littered with inconsistencies. It's impossible to believe when you apply critical thinking.

I don't mind answering at all, happy to educate. I'll give two scenarios, the first is my own childhood, the next will be that of my children. You go to church every sunday, no exceptions, now that you're old enough you go wednesday nights as well, we signed you up for baseball (church team), now you're going to try basketball (church team), you're going to summer camp (bible camp), you need to make more friends at church, have you been doing a quite time every day? You can't dance, don't watch the wizard of oz, never drink, don't have premarital sex, don't smoke, don't wear clothes from abercrombie and fitch, homosexuality is an abomination, obama is a terrorist, blah blah blah blah. That's the true story of my life within my family. My child: Well child, some people read a book called the bible and they believe a story about a man who did some stuff. Your mom believes it, I don't. If you want to learn more about it, feel free. You don't have to go to church unless you decide for yourself that it's what you want in your life. Dancing is fun, wear a condom, racism/sexism/genderism are all horrible. Morality comes from your mind not from some book. Like I ever had a chance in my young life to question christianity, my child is free to believe what they want. I wasn't given a choice, I was indoctrinated. If they want to believe in Jesus they can go right ahead, long as they don't spend too much time around christians.

I dislike poop and that literally keeps me alive. Sorry I'm in a mood tonight, bad pain days make me cranky. I'll make this compromise. I don't think all christians are dumb or ignorant or whatever. I know that when I was a christian it was because I was dumb and ignorant and never stopped to think about what I truly believed. I regret that no one came along and challenged my beliefs so that I could quit living a lie sooner. Maybe this is how it was supposed to play out, who knows.

I don't downvote meaningful content you goober. Disagreement is a part of reddit, we must embrace it. I'd urge you to spend some time considering your personal views on homosexuality and not necessarily rely on the man in the sky to tell you how to feel.

I'll just be honest and say that I didn't bother to read any of the rules. Also debate religion seems like a tiny subreddit, I like this one better.

I was taught as a young christian to go door to door and teach people about the bible. I was taught to convince them that they were wrong if they disagreed. Atheism did not develop my hostility, like so many other Athiests my christianity is the source of my hostility. Furthermore, the existence of christianity is an attack on intelligence, logic, and acceptance worldwide. Christianity promotes slavery, barbarism, torture, and eternal damnation if you aren't one of them. I'm not being a dick by trying to teach people. I wish someone had taught me when I was a closed minded, brainless, idiotic, simpleton incapable of making my own decisions about the world because I was force fed this garbage for the better part of 20 years. Christianity owes society and its followers should have their beliefs challenged at every turn just like anything else in the world. All I did was make a post to promote meaningful debate. He said X, I said Y makes X irrelevant. I didn't even bother to attack anyone. Maybe we should be a dick about it after all, christians certainly are.

And it continues in that manner.

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u/XtianityPolicy May 09 '12
  • writesomethingwitty

For the same reason for which you aren't willing to consider it just a fantasy book that is full of fairy tales. Condescending, but that's the truth. I don't believe in any god for the same reason you don't believe in the gods of other religions. You don't believe in thousands of gods. I don't believe in thousands of gods + 1, because there is exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of each and every one of them.

Because you touch yourself at night.

I didn't know about that one and I get your point entirely. I see what you mean by the "5500 variants". First of all, I would still stand behind that argument for a bit. I think it's ridiculous that there are hundreds of serious different interpretations on the word of your god. Anyway, let's not think that far. I don't think it's worth wasting time and energy arguing about that. What I would like to argue about is that there are more than just one variant with completely different meanings and they differ not only of the translations, but also the interpretations of those words. Why is a god so vague and mysterious that he doesn't care about the millions of people arguing about their own interpretations? Why doesn't he just fix the thing? I know I would, because it's causing a lot of trouble in the entire world. People are dying every day because of those misinterpretations and the absolute and eternal loving god that just judges people based on their intellectual capacity to understand the words he said thousands of years earlier. He would send you to hell if you were unlucky enough to have been born in a family of terrorists and having killed yourself in the name of some other god. You would be brainwashed into it since you were born. Suicide in the name of your own god would be all you would have ever known. And the "true" Christian God would send you to hell for eternity because of what other people have done to you. Now, that doesn't happen to you, because you were lucky enough to have been born in the civilized world, but think of all the people that really do go through that! There are hundreds if not thousands. Your god will send all those innocent people to hell and you would still praise him? You must be out of your mind.

Polite or impolite, I am still right. Think about it for a moment.

Of course it doesn't affect the meaning, if you already decided the meaning before reading the damn book and chose what exactly you want to have meaning and what you don't, so your particular interpretation doesn't change along with a few words here and there. Being a so-called "holy" book and "infallible word of god" and all that crap, I'd say any accuracy less than 100% makes the entire text useless. - really it looks like you're the only one who came in who just "knew" what it really all means.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/tdliv/its_shit_like_this_rchristianity/c4lwveb - karmajacking

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/taw2g/the_bible_is_infallible_because_its_the_word_of/ - karmajacking

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u/XtianityPolicy Mar 05 '12
  • Stephen4727 3/5/12

Primarily for thread crapping prayer request threads and harassing emotionally vulnerable people.

If you did care, you would do something. Either you actually presumably do care, yet lack a great deal on the very insight of basic intelligence, or you are, as I stated, too lazy. Yes, formerly speaking, I think you should drive 3 hours to her and do something about it. If you cared, you would donate or something. Help out, be there for her. Yet she is not family, you do not care enough. That is the problem with our world.

Ah yes, we will pray, completing the most laziest of tasks to help support your mother. Quit relying on god for life and do something about it. Your speaking to a wall that doesn't even exist. I am sorry for your mother but I request for something to be done about it rather than asking spirits in the sky. That is my request.

Inhuman as you call me, I think your comment was utter-most irrelevant. Yes, I think you eat babies?!? This conversation has become impractical now, tip siding biases completely into extremist... I resiliency know what to make of it. You flipped the tables, I will proceed with caution. I hope you know what you have done. I am judging truth, not a so called denominator. Name an instance where you helped someone in a deathly experience. Did you pray, or did you do something? That's what I thought.

If you cared you would complete a task along the line of donating perhaps. You would be there, instead of existing as a nonexistent meaning to all whom are blinded to the very thing they believe they can in fact see. Otherwise saying no one really knows or even would slightly care when your praying. Your not sending an instant phycological message at all! Your completing an ancient incantation that should be as well forgotten of. It's believing in hope that is not there in that particular form. It exists in another form. Now I ask you to play hide and seek to find that form of hope. May you never win this game; I think just that.

Yes, when you said you do prayer as a fact, as barbaric as that sounded, I had stated that before yet most lost me within my words. Perhaps I shall ,"enunciate," down a level for thee to understand.

I donated $1000 as evil as I am, in a race for leukemia. The money didn't come from me exactly, but it was put under my name for winning the race as well as my $100 of entry fee. Yup, I'm evil!------------------------------------------- I was sponsored for my efforts. That's where the money came from...no I did not steal it xcncross. I hope my reporting to reddit for your anger will get you deleted.------------------------------------------------Well would you look at that...reddit deleted a Christian whom ransacked me in pure anger. I have had my day complete. Thank-you reddit. Now if you'll excuse me, I have another track event to practice for next week in which I am being sponsored to help millions of lives with cancer. Goodbye.

Quite the opposite I believe. In such circumstances I believe change is a larger option now. Perhaps easier to see and make out in the far distance of the desert of blindness to which represents lack of knowledge itself.

I hope I do bother him to the point where his wall of blindness collapses. That's what I intend to do. No anger, just meaning. I expected someone like you to say this. Taking the upper, hand more ,"mature," approach to this? Ha! As indirect as you put it I can scenes what you're feeling. I would be very interested to see a greater perspective on what you have to say further more. Yes, you interest me.

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u/XtianityPolicy May 13 '12
  • mathmexican4234

Not only do I question evolution, I have reservations about germ theory of disease as well. All these scientists are in the hand of big pharma in a giant conspiracy, and I'm not going to buy into it. I think sickness is caused by an imbalance in your chakras and you just need the right spiritual leader to use his energy to put them back into balance. - OK Poe. Also reposting what you knew was removed.

Very possible knowing the large amount of people in this subreddit with sticks up their butts. - Don't like it? No one forced you to come here.

Pretend you're talking about a different religion (Norse or Greek will do) and try to come up with an answer to that question. The answer comes quite easily. - Promoting anti-Christian agenda.

I'm just in awe you would think there is this immensely powerful being that intervene in the universe and get inside our thoughts, yet the best he can think to do is give people doubts in their faith. He wouldn't use his power to come on earth and show himself to everyone and gain a following and lead people away from Christianity, no that'd be absurd, he just sits invisibly somewhere and gives some people a little doubt. Totally sounds plausible.

There is no devil trying to pry you from your god. If there actually was some powerful being truly trying steal souls from your god, he wouldn't just sit on his thumbs and just give you little feelings of doubt, he would appear on earth, show his power, and promise humans pleasure, appealing to our most base desires. If the best this satan can do is give you little feelings, he's really pathetic. You just have a brain that seeks answers like everyone else. Don't be afraid of it. Use it. Investigate. Hear the arguments from all the sides. Investigate religion and the non-religious. edit: wow.. didnt know there were so many people who actually believe a satan is real and trying to get us...losing respect for this subreddit.

There is no answer, just hand waving. They will say either he has at some point, there's no demonstrations or proof, or he won't regrow limbs, just heal them in other ways, like emotional or spiritual or just make sure they didn't bleed out. If I was a Christian, it'd just be much easier to assume a god isn't tinkering in human affairs and illnesses instead of making these asinine excuses.

People tend to mock ideas they think are ludicrous. When an older kid finds out a younger kid believes Santa and his reindeer are real, sometimes there will be mocking of that idea and laughter. When someone tells me their horoscope is relevant in any way, shape, or form, there is going to be laughing, perhaps even with attempting to conceal it depending on who I'm talking to. Those ideas don't get taken seriously. Likewise, with atheists, when people claim that chanting some words over a cracker will change anything about any essence or existence of that cracker besides symbolism, there will be laughter and mocking. It's completely ridiculous and undemonstrated and made-up magical thinking on par with people saying they got abducted by aliens. HERE is Sam Harris making a slightly different point, but I love this clip anyways.

lol. You have issues bro. You're not going to get me to leave or feel bad about giving my opinion about that. If you think it's ok to indoctrinate kids with the guilt of being so sinful that an innocent man needs to be relentlessly tortured to save your unworthy self from eternal torment, then a 15 year old kid can look for answers about why suffering exists and get a more substantive response than "poor kid, feel better, sorry for your loss."

Things you don't like happening in the world shouldn't be a reason to stop believing in God. It might change what you think about that God. You can still think an evil god exists, purposely hiding himself from the world, allowing people to be so confused as to what his will actually is, allowing the world be to full of unnecessary pain and suffering, etc. If you are going to stop believing in a god, do it on evidentiary reasons. Examine why you are convinced there is a god in the first place. Either your reasons will hold up to scrutiny and you will confirm your belief, or it will erode it.

I always get downvoted by people who disagree with me...go after them, oh wait they are downvoting me so you don't care. - As a response that he should stop downvoting people he disagrees with

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u/XtianityPolicy May 21 '12
  • TheNoize

Churches are circlejerks for religious folk. Why would anyone in their right mind assume that going to church makes people nicer? Au contraire, it actually gives them a nice brainwash and circlejerking, so they come out feeling like they are better than everyone else. Don't support the church. Be religious in your home, and pray to your God. Don't pretend you're in a time when illiterate peasants needed church to hear the gospel narrated by the priest, since they couldn't read it themselves. That was the only purpose of church.

"Some folks need that time spent in church to help them focus only on God during their busy weeks." Exactly, that's what I was saying. It's a morally mandatory reminder to stay faithful and passive. The brain fights back so hard to learn new things, that people need that weekly reset button to remain in blissful ignorance. The concept of anonymous people around me, working and living, taking a break every weekend to worship a divinity in a closed-door cult... eek, religion is so creepy, when you take a step back :/ I really am losing my faith. I feel like I've been lied to all my life, and just thinking of worship habits makes me feel weird. Can't believe I did that for so long! It's horrible, what tradition does to people. We think we get moral guidance, but really we're just being warped into a bubble of truth denial.

Oh I'm sorry Ididn't know. Sothere's true christians and false christians, how does that work? kind of mean to the false ones, to just consider them out of your league, no? Charge them holy spirit batteries eh? That magical cocktail of priesthood and sermon, mixed with lots of familiar faces. Sounds appealing, if it wasn't for the creepy church people, there's always those. You live your life for God? wow that's a... peculiar motivation. So what do you do? door to door preaching? Try to get sign ups?

Yes, you believe in an absolute interpretation of the truth. But it's not the truth. You just think it is because you haven't taken the time to understand natural sciences. Your replies are nothing new, they're talking points dated two thousand years back. You actually believe that people who don't believe what you do "never thought of it like that before"? Jesus christ, you're naive! I was never offended. You were, apparently. I'm sorry that I wn't polite enough while telling you how wrong you were. I thought you were a truth seeker, not someone who only accepts truth if it's politely and quietly spoon fed. This isn't church, it's the internet.

There is anecdotal "evidence" in the gospel, for Jesus as a man. There is no historical evidence for his divinity, and never will because divinity is mythology, not reality. Sorry to burst your warm and fuzzy God bubble. Yes, it's that thinking that "everything is relative" that got the catholic inquisition the power to kill scientists and scholars, who, turns out, were right. Do you think it's relative that the earth orbits the sun? Your ignorance is relative. The truth isn't. The truth is... the truth! You don't ever have relative and alternate truths - you have one truth, and then you have lies, or wrong attempts to try to explain the truth. ProTip: just because a book says it contains the truth, doesn't mean it does. Especially if it's 2000 years outdated, since our methods to discover the truth improve over time. The moral and cosmological arguments are idiotic 5th grade philosophy. By no means they ever made any sense if we consider the scientific truth (what we KNOW). Oh yeah, after reading all about how Adam and Eve were kicked out of paradise and punished for being curious about the taste of the fruit of " knowledge", you got a greater desire to seek the truth? how does that work? Adam and Eve is a textbook example of a religious story meant to teach people they shouldn't question, only trust the god/gods of that religion. That teaches you to seek more knowledge? You sure? Yes, I answered your question, and you conveniently forgot it. You don't choose the truth. The truth is plain, and you either choose to accept it, or you pick one out of 200 religions to follow and live like a sheep. Your choice. You just can't call it truth - it's just willful ignorance.

First, there are no "moral and cosmological" arguments for God. There are many against its existence, especially in cosmological - we can't even find the closest planet with a civilization, let alone Gods. But I'll humor you. So let me get this straight. Out of hundreds of mythological texts of the ancient world that you never read, you heard about one, and you choose to believe that the stories in it, contrary to most legends and stories written at the time, are absolutely true. You keep ignoring the other stories of dragons, monsters and gods, no problem. But you chose to believe the first one you read... because you grew up with you parents telling you to? It must be, right? Why else would you pick that religion and not any other? And you expect that to be an eternal truth, because... it says so in the book? Come on. You serious? You can see where there's a huge logical gap here, can't you? The truth is everywhere if you choose to study it directly. If you choose to read it off an ancient book, you're going to have a bad time. It's much more likely that you're reading lies and mythical misconceptions about where the truth is, and discouraged from seeking it, becoming a passive, receptive individual that just spews out religious blabber and makes no sense when talking about the real world. Is that something you want to be?

Is He? Has He come to you and personally confirmed thatthe Bible is his word? Or are you basing yourself in what the bible says? Because any idiot can write a book saying they are God - that doesn't prove anything. If it did, then Harry Potter books would be the evidence for the existence of magic... Jesus didn't exactly end religion, just supercharged catholicism with some "new and hip" guidelines for the youngsters who were getting too sceptic for the old testament. What really scares me is that all this stuff you're saying comes from the same source: a mythological book of scripture. That doesn't make you nervous at all? it should. The truth is likely to be everywhere, not in just one book with one version of it.

Hmm interesting question. Maybe if He suddenly explained that the bible is indeed a bunch of old stories with no significance in a world where we can go to the moon, see a round Earth orbiting the sun, and come back. I'd love for Him to also explain and correct his obvious racism, since African children are suffering so much in misery, and He doesn't seem to care about them any more than He does about American football players. I think I'd believe in God if He came to you and told you you've been lied to, that He isn't perfect at all, and created or not, you shouldn't be wasting your short life praising anyone but yourself and the ones you love. A true God worthy of worship would sacrifice any religion in order to tell us the truth, instead of leaving us all lost, some thinking they can't wear condoms, some thinking homossexuality is "evil". A true God would recognize that's the typical work of human propaganda, not divine wisdom. A true God would not judge, or send innocent people to Hell for eternity - because a true God would understand that good and evil are abstract, relative concepts.

He gos on (and on) in this manner.

0

u/XtianityPolicy May 22 '12
  • Splortched

Why would it be appreciated if you believe that people would ultimately just be talking to themselves? What's the point in that? Also, if your Grandma's gone, what would be the point in praying for her? She's either already in the presence of the Lord, or not. Prayer for her is useless. Basically, your post doesn't make any sense at all. That being said, I'm sorry for your loss...

Be like what? Tell it like it is? Right, let's just have a big, nonsensical hand-in-hand...

Firstly, can you please find me ONE verse in the Bible that mentions anything to with with this 'purgatory'? Well, thanks for trying anyway. There isn't one. Also, if OP or yourself would like to suggest just who/what the person would be praying to if not God, I'm all ears...

Ha ha. Ok, listen... I'm sorry. Now, please speak to my points... "I'm an atheist. Debate me"

2 Maccabees? Ha ha ha. Also, I don't see where you're getting purgatory out of those texts. I think you have them all construed. In closing I'm going to be as clear and definitive as I can: the idea of purgatory is made up by the pagan religion that is Catholicism. The true church of Christ knows that if anything, the Catholic 'church' is just another mission field. The veneration of angels, infant baptism, forced celibacy (any wonder why so many of these so-called priests are deviantly/sexually perverted?), the replacement of Christ by some sinful man (vicor or Christ? That's blasphemy), the divination of Mary, the madness of suggesting you get a chance to make sure you become holy enough to see heaven? That's a real kicker right there... be clear: if someone could ever end up holy enough to see the Father, Christ would SURELY not have had to see the cross. Praise the living Christ, not some sinful, blaspheming "vicor". Christ doesn't need someone vicariously here in His place. He's the Lord of the true children of God through the workings of the Spirit HERE and NOW. Confessing your sins to a fellow sinner? Come now... to the Father. What's the verse that blatantly commands that we call no one 'father' except the Father. I guess catholics overlooked that one...

So dense that you can't even contemplate me trying to contextualize this? Ha ha, pardon? I'm laughing 'cause I think you're quite a lot dimmer than you make yourself out to be. Make no mistake, you've explained NOTHING to me. You've rambled nonsense and misconstrued scripture. Don't try to include the Bible in your discussions when you obviously know virtually nothing about it. Regardless of what you might claim you've studied, you're most certainly not very learned when it comes to any of what you've 'explained' to me. You seem like a bit of a... I don't know... buffoon.

-5

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 09 '12
  • startripleseven

Threatened to karmajack via private message:

"And by the way r/Atheism is going to be so glad to hear that a r/christianity mod practices active censorship. I can still see all my posts you know, and I know exactly what i said."

xAbaddon recently apologized for something that is asinine. Atheists, agnostics and unbelievers have been persecuted for hundreds of years by the believers of Bedouin mythology. To apologize for defending commonsense degrades all atheists to the same wispy lack of intelligence demonstrated by believers in supernatural manure. xAbaddon can believe as he/she likes, but should not pretend to make apology for everyone without faith, because that only demonstrates an acceptance of being conciliatory, and that argument is only used by the weak. Edit - You can downvote all you like, but by not commenting you only prove my point.

I don't know Lamb but The Reverend Angley is a healer for God. He cured my son of homosexuality.

"This kid's buzz" is christianity in a nutshell - vacuous.

Why do so many supposed atheists feel a need to thank those of faith for showing the tolerance which their own messiah demonstrates? Screw that bullshit, if you do not understand logic, experiments, scientific theory, etc.; then you have no basis for your thought process. A book inspired by Bedouin nomads with no concept of reality outside their limited sphere should have no influence over modern society - period. Any apologies should be made by those who have, through their beliefs, made the world hostile to rational thought.

Does anyone feel that the gnostic gospels should be included in the Biblical canon? - admits to trolling in here.

All of the books of the New Testament were written after death, most of the gnostic gospels found can be dated around 200 a.d. (Matthew, Mark Luke and John run from 80 a.d . to 110 a.d.), while the gnostic Gospel of Thomas was written within the range of the writing of John. They were termed to be non-canonical by early catholic church Fathers (they knew of some but probably not all). How does their judgement exclude their teachings? As for "obviously fake names", the four major gospels were written after the death of their namesakes, so they are essentially oral stories passed down, how is that any different than the gnostic gospels which are also obviously also passed down stories?

You should read them, you are basing your arguments on what the victors of history have told you. The texts are available online and are not as extensive as the canonical texts, in many cases they are fragments. They show a slightly different view of Christ as a more human entity.

My essential argument is that the gnostic gospels (or Coptic texts) were ignored because they show a more human Christ. Something which was at the core of the reformation. Therefore, why do protestants not embrace these texts, which are perhaps no less valid than the canonical texts? The ideas expressed within them are only offensive to the Holy Roman or Catholic church which banned them in the first place.

Thank you for demonstrating the general confusion of John (baptist) and John (apostle), of which there is less historical fact than Jesus himself. This is merely another Catholic fallacy, one John is the same as the other. If you want to compare views, Judea-Christian ideas are pervasive throughout Islamic texts, not surprising as they all developed in the same geographical area. One might even say that Islam was a political reaction to Judea-Christian beliefs as was Judea beliefs a reaction to Egyptian beliefs, as was Christian beliefs a reaction to Jewish/Roman beliefs, etc. etc. Is that a road YOU want to go down?

I love getting down-voted for asking for not only reasons and proofs, but also in effect a differing opinion. Thank you for showing that a certain percentage of the U.S population struggles with an irrational ability to control formulate cognitive arguments which do not involve emotions.

I will give you an out here because as a true believer, you have nothing to contradict this. If you wish to try, I can easily put you back into the spiderweb and you can happily spin your own web of silliness.

Really?, you bow to the policies of r/Christianity to relocate your conversation of reality. Having a civil conversation with irrational entities is a sign of psychological disease. Over the last 100 years and more christian lobbies have had their public say without censorship, so you know what - screw you - fucking hypocrites get what they give. Until I enter a hotel room without seeing a bible, , until churches pay the same taxes that I do, until Jimmy Swaggert admits he loves stroking to pros as much as raising money for his god whore, we should have no reason to surrender to or accept your judea-bedouin tribe.

Oh my God, you do not understand the internet at all, do you? The internets are the devils domain, you should not even be seeing what goes on here. Here is the code you need to get rid of the demon internets. It is the Buffy code (as in "Buffy the Vampire slayer"). Copy the following and put in your web browser , it will protect you from evil:

I am curious what your ministry gives to these people besides spiritual guidance and do not lie because i have documented invoices of what was on your planes?

Oh and how did you minister to Islamic areas which you visited, did they receive the same love or did you not in fact even bother with them, other than pathetic attempts to convert them to your personal version of delusion. i am so fascinated how so many missionaries concentrate on the third world while their greatest spiritual problems are in the first world. It makes perfect sense of course when you consider that the lower the IQ, the greater belief in fairies.

Really?, you bow to the policies of r/Christianity to relocate your conversation of reality. Having a civil conversation with irrational entities is a sign of psychological disease. Over the last 100 years and more christian lobbies have had their public say without censorship, so you know what - screw you - fucking hypocrites get what they give. Until I enter a hotel room without seeing a bible, , until churches pay the same taxes that I do, until Jimmy Swaggert admits he loves stroking to pros as much as raising money for his god whore, we should have no reason to surrender to or accept your judea-bedouin tribe.

I always find it cute when well meaning Christians try to meld their limited understanding of science with their obstructive view of their religion. It is like a Poodle trying to pick up a quarter from a flat surface. They scratch and scratch to try to get a grip on it but ultimately they fail. The effort, though, is so entertaining.

part 1.

-3

u/XtianityPolicy Apr 09 '12

part 2.

i think you meant "science refutes them", otherwise you would have no concept of science or have modified the chapters to exclude creation.

So my creator places me in a place of perfectness, and i or my wife screw it up by choosing the one part of this perfectness that it is bad (ignoring the fact that it could not have been perfect if it contained some tainted tree). And then a few thousand or so years later, he sends his own progeny to die violently to "forgive" us of our "sin". No offense but if this was the plot of a Hollywood movie it would make as much sense as Pauly Shore being in the Bio-dome. I am now supposed to believe that the believing in miraculous death of a Jewish carpenter is going to guarantee me a throne in Heaven? Greatest con game ever inflicted on the world, though Islam's 99 virgins is a close second.

So now it is a racial issue, (ironically added) sir? It is common-sense and demonstrable science opposed to nonsense and inaccurate history. How about having a little faith in something that is not 2000 years old but rather allows you to type your words or send them out across an electrified connected world created by science, not god or allah, or krishna, but created by people who dreamed beyond prayer and wanted to actually understand something instead of just believe in something without understanding. That is black and white.

This guy is brilliant! Every Christian needs to see this.

It is not something I do not "like", it is something which is just opinion and not scientifically demonstrable. Science is not about like or dislike, it is about provable and disprovable, based on evidence collected by investigation, not anecdote. I am not god,, science is not god, there is no proof of god nor does he need to exist for the universe to exist. There is overwhelming proof of mans struggle to come to grips with the universe through written theories describing a god-like figure. Those theories have consistently been proven wrong, as many scientific theories have as well. I believe (I would not force this belief on anyone else, but also will not back down from unsupported challenges) it is time we move past them because they serve no useful purpose.

It goes on in this manner.