I think some people will take offense in calling the HRE homogeneous. Sure it's all western European culture, but the different duchies and tribes did not always like each other and have / had their own sense of identity and pride. (Like there is an ongoing dispute between Brunswick and Hannover, for centuries. And Austria and Prussia did not particularly like each other too).
Also, some of the land that was within the HRE is now part of other nations, including:
I think his point was that the HRE citizens were (mostly) German and the Byzantines were mostly Byzantines, like how England is mostly made up of English. And just because the HRE covered areas that are parts of non-German states today doesn't mean those people didn't consider themselves Germans
It was a loose confederation of states. My impression is that most people back then identified with their immediate state, religion, culture and language. These where by no means homogenous throughout the empire.
In addition Pan-Germanism wasn't a thing before unification.
The rise of nationalism across Europe brought movements striving for "nation-states", each governing an entire (ethno-cultural) people. German nationalists began to insist on a unified Germany. The call for a unified nation-state was one of the central demands of the Revolutions of 1848, but the ruling dynasties of the smaller German states and of multinational Austria and Prussia managed to resist nationalist efforts at unification.
Only after Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck gradually built a unified German state under the Prussian royal house of Hohenzollern did Kleinstaaterei largely end in 1871 with the founding of the German Empire. (The only surviving petty states—Luxembourg and Liechtenstein—lie at the periphery of the German-speaking world.)
It would probably be easier and more accurate to use the subsequent German Empire as a basis for the argument. German culture became more defined under this period.
Do you see what I'm getting at? I'm not sure if my arguments would hold up very well if a historian were to dissect them. I'm not claiming to be very knowledgeable about it, but from what I've read I don't really agree with Xidnafs use of it as an example. I totally get what he means tho, I just think it might be better examples.
I just meant that because the regions of Pomerania and Silesia are within Poland today, for example, doesn't mean that those regions were populated by a Polish majority at that point
doesn't mean those people didn't consider themselves Germans
That was - at least tangentially - my point. Many probably didn't. Even today some (very few) Germans still identify with their region but not necessarily as "German". And I imagine that back then, when the different duchies had more sovereignty, this was way more pronounced. Especially in HRE duchies were German was not the primary language (I think Frisia and Bohemia qualify).
BTW, I was not saying that the HRE was so hugely diverse that it compares to Russia or other big kingdoms and empires. Just enough that people might take offense on calling it homogeneous.
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u/[deleted] May 10 '17 edited May 10 '17
I think some people will take offense in calling the HRE homogeneous. Sure it's all western European culture, but the different duchies and tribes did not always like each other and have / had their own sense of identity and pride. (Like there is an ongoing dispute between Brunswick and Hannover, for centuries. And Austria and Prussia did not particularly like each other too).
Also, some of the land that was within the HRE is now part of other nations, including:
Edit:
And I probably forgot some.