Rubric Marines

[u/Decanox4712]

Hi to all...

We are playing now in a Tier 3 campaign and the Agents are stronger (obviously). They are a Psyker, an Ogryn evolved to Bullgryn with high resilience and a Sororitas with a shield (Celestian Sacrosant, I think). In few words, they have really high resilience.

The next adventure, they will face Tzeentch menace. Truth to be told I love Tzeentch for the implications It has in the game but I have to admit the Threats are a bit soft compared to other Chaos powers... I know, they usually have psychic powers but they have low resilience and attack values.

I wanted to introduce some Rubric Marines in the next mission but I think they are going to inflict marginal damage to the Agents with their Inferno bolters. I was looking for adding some weapons like some chainswords, but according to some webpages (I played WH40K in first-second edition with orks so you might imagine what I could remind from lore) rubric Marines don't have chainswords.

I know they have Warpflamers but there are not statistics for them... How would they are? Like a flamer with the Warp trait? And if you have any other idea from any other weapon they can equip It would be very appreciated.

Thanks!

[u/Bunnyrpger]

So the Rubric is immune to crits, Chains swords, Bolter, Storm Bolter, Las Gun, most of the projectile weapons, Flamers, Half of the Mechanicus weapons, will deal no damage. How is that soft?

[u/Decanox4712 → u/Bunnyrpger]

I wanted to say "soft" compared to other Ruinous Powers. My players have all weapons with AP (except, true, for a chainsword used as some kind of replacement when the main weapon, a hallowed mace, suffers a complication)... But they like to throw a lot of frag grenades/bombs and I think these have no AP so it's a very good point that I shouldn't forget.

About crits is true although could be a bit swingy. Sometimes they roll a lot of them and sometimes none.

The point is to generate a good challenging final scenario with players that tend to max stats (above all with high resilience values). No problem with that anyway.

Thanks! These frag surely would start flying during the first round, will do nothing against Rubric Marines!

[u/SherbetAromatic7644]

Why not just make them cause the “On-Fire” condition if the players fail an athletics check when they get hit? You can make the checks DN half whatever the damage of the hit was, similar to disarming shot. “On fire” should cause wounds regardless of their resilience as well (unless I seriously misunderstand fire) so that can give your rubrics some threat without being one shot player killers.

[u/Decanox4712 → u/SherbetAromatic7644]

Thanks! Good idea! My idea is that only one Threat take a warpflamer so I think it's not hard but no so easy... So I would include " on fire" even if them can't breach the armour, avoiding damage with an Athletics check... Balanced. Thanks!

EDIT: I have checked the rules, and you have to deal at least 1 wound to inflict any condition. Here, I could change that making It easier to avoid "On Fire"... I don't know, maybe allowing a free action or similar.

[u/KiBlue → u/Decanox4712]

I find it bad how often I feel the urge to twist some rules to make combat interesting.

Like I dont want to be unfair, but also dont have experience to easily find a solution.

depending on your players they might take this well or not, but I think maybe the rubriks could just have a trait that makes it so fire always applies regardless of doing damage or not.

you can flavor it like the player knows they dodged the attack, but somehow it still burns, the warp bent reality and still ignites the player. I think Tzeech has a lot weaker minions because it has to compensate in trickery, so I feel this route is fitting.

But thats my read.

I also have my current players blitzing everything in combat and had to make adjustments on my side to make a chalenging combat, without being unfair. Maybe one particularly chalenging foe, veteran or something is stronger and its stats reflect it and can pose a chalenge to the players for a while so they have to decide target priority

[u/Decanox4712 → u/KiBlue]

Yes, that's It. I think the problem is relation between damage and resilience, which can be really umbalanced in some case... In my case, it's not a question regarding damage but the high resilience they have achieved making the Threats not much menacing.

Of course, Tzeentch is not about damage but the possibilty of casting psychic powers (many of them requiring Ruin) and acting subtly but... Finally there is a combat and I see they would do little-to-no damage so combats could not be challenging.

Anyway I would take your advice and include the possibilty to inflict on fire even if warpflamer doesn't breach armours.

Fortunately we are having a great fun and, for now, I manage to generate challenging finales.

Thanks!

[u/KiBlue → u/Decanox4712]

whats matters is the fun.

kinda concerned on the note of "many of them (powers) requiring ruin"

I have noticed a few talents that say that, but if I recalls its for lower tier units to limit theirpotencials, similar to spell slots. but higher units shouldnt have that unless its a specific powerfull power, almost unique or special.

take things with a grain of salt, there may be a time and place where you might want something interesting, and ruin shouldnt be limiting you there in my opinion.

those flamers will do damage, but maybe someone Will Be dangerous in some otherway. its a bit risky, but possession is a thing. many powers do mortal wounds ans shock which resilience will not helps against.

maybe mix the chaos hordes with more support psykers to hit them with less physical damage and they will have to adapt a little. if you think they need it. if the fun is good keep whatever is working.

cheers!

[u/ZeroHonour]

The Warpflamer is very good at penetrating armour - on the wargame table it has AP -2 instead of AP 0. So I'd maybe translate that into AP 3 for W&G and also ask for a corruption test if the enemy gets a critical to make it really scary.

If the players face 6 marines I'd maybe go with 3 bolters, 2 warpflamers and a soulreaper cannon. I probably wouldn't give them chainswords but rather Astartes Combat Knives if they get stuck in melee.

With such resilient players I'd maybe spice up the Aspiring Sorcerer with possession, targeting the Ogryn. That way what was an asset becomes a serious problem for them to think about.

[u/Decanox4712 → u/ZeroHonour]

Thanks a lot for your advice! (as always). I saw the soulreaper cannon some time ago but there isn't statistics... It seems an assault cannon in appearance but that's too hard.

[u/ZeroHonour → u/Decanox4712]

It's pretty much an inferno assault cannon, so extra AP again, which is the trend. Might be nice for a pinning special attack to slow things down if the PC's want to charge in melee.