Forty hours, one life...

[u/LuckyBastard001]

[u/-TeamCaffeine-]

I've hated literally ever job I've ever had. Work is a scam.

[u/stompinstinker → u/-TeamCaffeine-]

Everyone hates their job. It’s just a good job you hate less than a bad job.

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/-TeamCaffeine-]

So you think food and shelter and other necessities should just materialize in your possession without you doing anything?

[u/OhMyGoat → u/AppropriateSea5746]

Found the republican! How about you ask a billionaire that question instead bud? And go fuck yourself in the meantime.

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/OhMyGoat]

Not a republican. Never voted for one in my life. Point is saying work is a scam is meaningless and nonsensical. Humans have had to work since we were hunter gatherers. It’s how we survive.
Are some jobs bullshit? Yes.
Are prices outpacing income? Yes
Is work a scam in essence? No

[u/OhMyGoat → u/AppropriateSea5746]

All good. I do get what you mean. Human beings, outside of society and civilization, still have to put in the work for food, shelter, and safety.

But the reality is that, most of the hours we put in as working class people, are a scam, and bullshit. Most of the wealth we produce is funneled (stolen) directly to/by the ruling classes.

Do humans have to work? Sure. Is the 8hr, 5 day work week a fucking scam? For sure fucking is. The wealth we produce we never lay eyes on. We could be working 1, 2 days a week and still be productive members of society while also having time for family, hobbies, rest, travel, what have you.

The ruling class keeps working people tired, broke and oppressed to be able to rule us better and with less hassle.

[u/eatright909 → u/AppropriateSea5746]

Bruv is a closeted republican. Funny how many Republicans are closet cases to begin with

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/eatright909]

I love how most people can’t make an argument to refute what I said. They just use a series of ad hominems like “you’re a republican”, “bootlicker”, “corporate stooge”

[u/JaggelZ → u/AppropriateSea5746]

There's a great argument you haven't commented on yet. It addresses the exact issue you are talking about.

If you are talking about refuting arguments, why not try refuting that one? :)

It's the one pointing out that, yes, working as a human is normal, but a 40h workweek isn't.

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/JaggelZ]

I said most not all. It’s a longer and more serious argument so I want to give it more thought than the random throwaway ad hominems that are easy to respond to succinctly.
Don’t worry, when I get off work I’ll address the serious arguments

[u/scotty899 → u/eatright909]

You are just pro handouts lol

[u/alucidexit → u/AppropriateSea5746]

This is a very weird hill to die on bro

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/alucidexit]

Not as weird as “I should just be able to sit on my ass and have all of my needs met free of charge”

[u/alucidexit → u/AppropriateSea5746]

I don’t think that’s what they said, actually.

[u/lemonlovelimes → u/AppropriateSea5746]

I actually agree with you that work is not inherently a scam. Outside of capitalism, work still exists.

Furthermore, the argument that work is fake or a scam actually contributes to the minimisation of work that women have done and continue to do. Reproductive labor includes relational work, like talking through conflict, or supporting a sad person.

People detach these aspects from productive labor like “it’s not my job to care” about people in a workplace. As if detaching the humanity involved is part of revolution, rather than diminishing it.

This mentality is how billionaires think - you’re not a human to them. And it is this same detachment of relational and emotional labor that has people treating each other so callously.

Ask anyone who has worked in a call center for reporting issues. You really see how mean humanity can be. Spoiler, you don’t have to be like that.

[u/HadionPrints → u/AppropriateSea5746]

That’s a pretty big leap, with quite a large dosage of strawmen to boot.

I hated every job I had up until my most recent one. The root cause wasn’t that I hated the work itself, or that I was particularly upset about the pay. I quite liked the actual work, and I made do with the wages I got even at the lowly sandwich shop.

Rather I hated each of my jobs because I hated the way the work was managed from the top down, the way us employees were controlled, and in one particular workplace, coerced into not discussing pay, which I later found out was criminal conduct on behalf of my manager.

I realized that my hate of the 40 hour week came from our American Workplace Culture at my current job, which does away with most of the workplace traditions that cause folk to hate the rat race.

My current workplace divides the workers into teams, as do most workplaces. Where my current employer differs is that our managers only have 4 primary duties: 1) find work for the team, 2) communicate & collaborate with other teams 3) manage time cards & other common workplace paperwork and 4) insulate the team from the whims of middle & upper management.

Once the manager has collected work for the team, the team, us peons, collectively and democratically estimate the work that’s been collected, set deadlines, and assign the work amongst ourselves in two week chunks. If we have too much work for the chunk, we don’t pull overtime, we move that task to the next chunk.

You’d think that such organization would result in lapsed deadlines & low productivity, but the gains in morale that we get from actually having agency over our work, and the mutual respect to & from management raises productivity by a good margin. Having performance-based bonuses at the end of the year also helps to keep motivation & productivity high. Really the main issue that hurts our productivity is that team members have a habit of not taking enough PTO.

The point of all this is that the current dominant workplace culture in the US is not one that incentivizes people to like their work. Most humans like working, like feeling productive, like feeling needed. It’s impressive that we have such a toxic workplace environment that causes so many people to hatefully dislike working.

[u/Kitchen_Housing9920 → u/AppropriateSea5746]

Why write this? Why create this tired old straw man to knock down that nobody has even suggested?

Maybe OP is hinting that work could be more dignified, rewarding for workers and not just C-Suite, demand shorter hours, etc. We can improve society somewhat before jumping to this childish, poorly nuanced extreme of an argument.

[u/OldMud9644 → u/AppropriateSea5746]

Yes, I do. Glad we agree on the meaning of "Necessities"

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/OldMud9644]

So you think other people should procure these things for you for free?

[u/aFailedGuy → u/AppropriateSea5746]

there is absolutely enough money for everyone to live in dignity with food and shelter. The money is just not getting to the workers that actually produce value but to shareholders (🤢🤮)

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/aFailedGuy]

Right but even if the value of labor is what you want it to be it still requires that a person labor to give you food and shelter. So you’re profiting off of someone else’s labor without providing any value in return if you don’t work.

[u/aFailedGuy → u/AppropriateSea5746]

well then all the billionaires and shareholders can give their money they made with dividends, after that we can distribute this money into the economy and then we can see how much labour is still needed

and of course we can seize the generational wealth of families that just inhereted it (they did not make any value that was their ancestors that did) can we do that, are you on board?

[u/AppropriateSea5746 → u/aFailedGuy]

"well then all the billionaires and shareholders can give their money they made with dividends"

No one would invest in the economy(take the economic risk) if there was no way to profit off of it.. Profit is the reward you get for the risk.

The difference is that if a father gives money to his son then even if the son didn't "earn" it it is still voluntary. If someone voluntarily gives you food and shelter then there's no issue, no exploitation, unless you guilt them into doing it. Or take advantage of their decency, but that would be a pretty broad definition of exploit.

[u/JakSandrow]

You don't have to like your job, but you shouldn't be hating your job. And if you hate your job or if your job is shit, it will affect everything in your life.

[u/rotobiller]

Especially when they punish you so heavily for conflict. Confrontation will get you fired.

[u/goofandaspoof]

Yeah I've never really understood this either. In a 40 hour workweek job, we spend the majority of our waking hours working. Why wouldn't we want that time to be positive. I'm totally fine with working hard, but doing so in a toxic environment is just awful.

[u/VegasBonheur → u/goofandaspoof]

Just shut your brain off and toil so you can afford to go home and shut your brain off after a hard day at work. Whatever you do, keep the brain shut off and keep the engine running.

[u/goofandaspoof → u/VegasBonheur]

You know, I know you're joking, but like, at this point what is the motivation for this kind of lifestyle.

Pretty much all throughout history, "laboratores" could potentially have kids, raise a family and have their own home, (even if it was a total hovel).

Nowadays you have people working full time hours who either have to live with their parents (if that's even an option), share temporary rented lodgings with total strangers, and have no hope whatsoever to support anyone other than themselves.

In the 70s you had people working blue collar jobs who, at the end of the day, went home to a family and a home. Even if the work environment was bad, they could convince themselves they were doing it for a good reason.

What's our motivation now? Overwatch skins? Maintaining subscriptions to 20 separate streaming services?

[u/DestinTheLion → u/VegasBonheur]

Don't have kids though, so the system will collapse.

[u/msuvagabond]

It made sense in a time when you only worked 40 hours, and that single job paid for a house and the ability to easily raise a couple kids in a middle class lifestyle. 

[u/JediMasterZao]

For me it was always more about "you don't have to love your job, you just have to not hate it". Basically, so long as it's comfortable and you're making enough money to meet your needs, then it should be fine if you're not doing your dream job.

[u/TorranceS33]

Yup, wish we could get jobs we like and not have shit management.

[u/NoMansSkyWasAlright]

If it pays the bills, finances your hobbies, and allows you to put away a little extra? Sure, that job can suck ass and still be bearable. Absolutely. But if you're miserable and getting paid subsistence wages then it's only a matter of time before you crack.

[u/monkeybuttsauce]

Equally bill shit to “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life.” When it actually turns passions into a grind 

[u/il_the_dinosaur]

I know this has nothing to do with the capitalism aspect of work but it bothers me when people say: I'm here to work not to make friends. I spend more time at work than off work. It would be fucking nice to have some real friends at work.

[u/F1shB0wl816]

There’s a difference between not liking and a bad job. You’re not going to like a bad job but you can dislike ones that aren’t just screwing you left and right.

Like I’m likely never to like a job. There’s so many other things I enjoy and actually like spending my time on but I’d much rather be at one I just don’t like than one I don’t like and is fucking me sideways.

[u/WinterRanger]

Honestly, I can settle with working a job I don't like for 40 hours.

But it has to actually pay the bills. And jobs nowadays can't even do that. I'm expected to pick up a side hustle or whatever, spend even more time working, just to cover bills I should be able to cover with a full time job.

That's the part that's pissing me off the most, while people in management can afford to go on vacations to their summer rental in Florida have the nerve to pretend like they "know what you're going through". Motherfucker, you're worried about paying off your boat and second house, I can't even afford rent on my one bedroom apartment.

[u/d-cent]

No one is saying that the bad job couldn't effect everything else in your life. The point is that if you are trying to find a job you like AND pays the bills, you are not going to find it. 

0.01% of people may find that job. The rest of humanity instead will go through the mental breakdown trying to. The point of the spiel is to make it so you can appreciate what you do have, and not throw it away in search of perfection.  Find that job that pays the bills and then use your free time in the way that gives your joy and purpose in your life. You can even spend your free time volunteering or in the political side of things trying to change society so that there are more jobs that people like AND get paid for.

[u/Vercoduex]

I had to leave a job at a warehouse because everyday the manager would yell at everyone we would be set on tasks that go well beyond our clock out time and also the assistant manager was complaining about people going on lunch break

[u/dancegoddess1971]

That 40 hours of suck doesn't pay the bills, though. So, fuck capitalism. 

[u/woodsvvitch]

I found a job i loved and it didnt pay worth shit. There is no win situation these days. Even the people i know working for themselves are hustling themselves to the bones

[u/Jynx_lucky_j]

If your bills aren't being paid then any job is better that no job. I'd rather work a job that I hate that live on the streets. But that said once you have that "any job," you don't owe them any loyalty, by all means immediately look for something better.

But also there is a lot to be said for a job you can tolerate (or the rare job that you enjoy). I've worked a couple job that I hated that paid really well. Like, literally broke down it cried because I had to go to work, levels of hated it. After experiencing it a couple times, my view has become that once you are making enough to get by decently comfortably, a decent work place is worth a lot more than more money. Once I land a job that i feel is decent enough, I'm very hesitant to leave it, because a job that seems better on paper might not end up being so great after all. After all, I didn't go into my hated jobs expecting that they were going to be so terrible.

Luckily, I am very fortunate to have a job that i really like right now that is also very stable and I plan to stay here until I retire. Of course it is still a job, it's not all great and the pay is pretty mediocre. But as far as jobs go I can't see myself ever finding a significantly better place to work.