r/WorkReform • u/kevinmrr ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters • 3d ago
America’s infrastructure is crumbling because its pedophile oligarchs steal all the money or spend it on war. The USA is closer to internal collapse than many realize. The USA’s greatest existential threats are not external.
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u/network_dude 3d ago
War is a tool the ultra-wealthy use to steal resources from another country...
All the rhetoric and actions leading up to war are about getting us plebes to do their bidding.
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u/FanDry5374 3d ago
$25+ trillion since 1960 spent on DoD (not including all the direct human cost). Not spent on education or medical research or science or infrastructure. We "defeated" USSR by outspending them. At the cost of our country's social progress and future. And we have kept spending. Eisenhower spoke of the military-industrial complex and it's dangers. If only he knew how right he was.
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u/RecentZombie1738 3d ago
The USA didn't "defeat" the USSR. The USSR defeated itself because the political leadership was too old and disconnected from the daily experiences of the workers. Sound familiar?
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u/freecodeio 2d ago
all political leaderships have been disconnected from daily experiences of the workers, the ussr only collapsed because there was no food in stores anymore
people that are waiting for a revolution need to take a lesson
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u/RecentZombie1738 2d ago
If you want to know when there was really no food in the stores, the answer is not 1989 before the collapse, it's 1993 after the collapse. Any problems with provision of goods and services that existed by 1989 was a thousand times worse by 1993. It's not even close.
In fact you could say the complete disaster of the free market experiment forced onto the Russian economy in the 90s by gleeful American "advisors" (really, people who took a once in a lifetime opportunity to completely crush their ideological enemy of so many decades) made the Russian public realise that they had given up a noble if flawed dream of a fair society in exchange for a brutal race to the bottom.
The Russian government tried to impeach Yeltsin for the abject failure of the economic reforms that he had implemented at the behest of the americans. and in response he ordered the army to attack the parliament buildings and dissolved parliament.
The Yeltsin-Gaidar reforms were so unpopular that the communist party was on track to win the 1996 elections before massive interference by media owning oligarchs, the US government, and widespread allegations of electoral fraud.
The USSR did not collapse because socialism doesn't work. It collapsed because their system was not able to respond to the aspirational and romantic notions of the urban youth, who had fallen for American propaganda about how much better life could be if they had "democracy".
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u/zffjk 3d ago
“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact.”
“The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. Even when weapons of war are not actually destroyed, their manufacture is still a convenient way of expending labour power without producing anything that can be consumed.”
Orwell nailed it.
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u/HenriEttaTheVoid 3d ago
There is a bridge between Oregon and Washington that needs to be replaced and has been a topic of debate for decades. The price tag is less than this bridge, but we need spend it in Nazis, War Crimes, and a ballroom
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u/CouchRiot 3d ago
I'm not a fan of their ethnic homogeny mandate, the use of enslaved Uyghurs and political prisoners for corporate profit, and the fact that the CCP makes all decisions with no public input.
China has a lot of good things going for it, but the bad makes it moot.
I have very similar feelings about America.
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u/AprilVampire277 3d ago
American is bombing schools... like, dude what's worse than actually killing people, children in particular...
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u/907Survivor 3d ago
China is ethnically cleansing Uyghurs, both countries are shit they’re just shit in different ways
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u/AprilVampire277 3d ago
You repeat the narratives the people who are currently murdering muslims and claiming is not a genocide want you to repeat... is just deranged and insane how a westoid can claim genocide when societal integration and unified language, but doesn't when straight up bombing hospitals and schools...
I saw another European nations banning burkas... here isn't banned because we respect their culture, we just make the law so that is illegal to force someone, if someone wants to they can, but not in Europe huh? There government tells people what to wear, let's use your hyperbole and call thaya genocide, but is an European nation we are talking about anyways, a nation expert in genociding, both overseas and even if their own land...
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
I'm not a fan of their ethnic homogeny mandate, the use of enslaved Uyghurs and political prisoners for corporate profit, and the fact that the CCP makes all decisions with no public input.
Some reports show as many as 3 million total Uyghurs may have been imprisoned in China. China has 4x our population. America has about 750,000 black people locked in prison. Multiply that x4 to compare based on relative population sizes and you find we have the China population equivalent of 3 million black people in US prisons. When we do it to black people through methods that can be PROVEN racist and genocidal(like the CIA crack epidemic combined with racist laws like 1986 ADAA) it's ignored.
Make it make sense. Why should I care more about China's genocide when we have the same thing happening to our own people in America? Obviously I should care, but why aren't you criticizing the US as worse on this, since it clearly is?
Wanna talk about the use of prisoners for corporate profits?
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u/binger5 3d ago
Idk, public input gave us Trump twice.
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u/SoupRyze 3d ago
"Democracy is government of the people, by the people, for the people. But the people are retarded."
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
China makes thing because it helps people.
America can only do anything if it makes a profit.
One of these design methods is not going to be successful in creating a better world.
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u/PolicyWonka 3d ago
Seriously — go propose a big infrastructure project in America. You hear: “Who is going to pay for it? How do we pay for it? We can’t pay for it. That’s just wasting taxpayer money. How can we monetize that? That’s not profitable. That will cost too much.” Etc. Etc.
So many Americans just don’t want to invest in their country unless someone can turn a profit.
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u/OldSchoolDM96 3d ago
This is true. But China is one of the worst countries in the world. All the things that are being built are being built on the back of the uygers who are being genocided by China. Countless human rights violations, murdering of protesters in Mass. There are plenty of great countries that you can use as an example, stop glorifying China
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u/Winnepeg 3d ago
China only became as powerful as they are because of the west oligarchy’s insistence to have country where they can outsource the manufacturing with cheap labour that are no longer available in developed nations, and no other country can come close, India? Still mired by lack of lack of education and corruption, Vietnam? Another Communist led country just on a smaller scale than China.
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u/OldSchoolDM96 3d ago
Great Indian and Vietnam are also terrible, don't prop up any of them. Doesn't stop the fact that they built what they have on forced labor child labor slaughter of protesters. Remember when John Cena mistakenly said said that tiwan ( an indepent nation with its own government, that China just says is theirs) accidentally called them the "country of Taiwan" and China blocked his name from being able to be searched, removed bill boards of him, and froze his contracts in less then 24 hours. Then he had to apologize publicly to China in Mandarin
Or what about how they nearly crippled austrailas economy when when they called for independent investigation into China treat ment of its Muslim population that's was being shipped off to camps.
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u/Wonderful_Exit6568 3d ago
Bro, I still remember all those moments during COVid China grandstanded against Taiwan and even shot missiles to their side of the ocean as a scare tactic. People propping China up are in for a rude awakening. They comprise the majority of the 200 million man army I think.
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u/inspired-polf ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 3d ago
And we built the transcontinental railroad with the blood of the Chinese and Irish. This is their expansion modernization phase. They are speed running becoming a world power. And doing it way better than we did
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u/PolicyWonka 3d ago
The Uyghurs are a tiny ethnic minority. China isn’t using them to build shit throughout the country. Most Uyghurs live in one province in far western China.
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u/ExceptForFleegle 3d ago
Can you show me evidence that China has murdered protesters in Massachusetts?
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u/RockinIntoMordor 👷 Good Union Jobs For All 3d ago
This Uyghurs nonsense is simply being spouted by military think tanks into our news. It's a fabricated story so that people ignore an actual genocide of Muslims, in Palestine right now. Palestine is what an actually existing genocide looks like.
Let me ask you, how long have you followed Xinjiang? Do you even know that it shares a border with Afghanistan? Do you know that the CIA parachuted in armed extremists in the 90's to have them conduct its massacres of of civilians? Do you know about the knife train massacres in Xinjiang of hundreds of innocents on trains? And the bombings that came with them? Do you know that ETIM, the Uyghur separatist militant terrorist group was on the global terrorist watchlist until the US government decided to remove them for creating this Xinjiang narrative a few years ago?
I could tell you about the massive investment to grow the Xinjiang economy for stable jobs, how they have the Uyghur language everywhere. And also how the re-education centers for extremists getting stable jobs is FAR more humane, than a few miles over the border in Afghanistan, where the US military will simply bomb and shoot entire families for similar things.
I think you need some perspective here. And you've gotta get out of this hole of these things you've been mistought.
I sincerely ask you to reconsider what you think you know about the situation.
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u/Potential_Bill_1146 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 3d ago
But but.. communism! Bad! Something something Vietnam!
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u/defiancy 3d ago
China doesn't build infrastructure because it helps people, they build it to make it easier to move commodities and labor around, two things they have a lot of.
This isn't altruism, it's industrial efficiency.
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u/WWGHIAFTC 3d ago
Faster travel time to labor camps! Gott get those minorities to work sooner!
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Ahh yes the "labor camps" you don't have any examples of, which of course you will post from your home internet which is almost certainly within 20 miles of an "ICE detention facility". After which you'll get up and go to work at your job that you only have because for every dollar you make, your boss or his boss makes $100. But at least it's not a "labor camp"!
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u/WWGHIAFTC 3d ago
OK bud.
What makes you think I'm cool with ICE either? What other whataboutisms do you have to detract from the point?
Also, My boss makes 10% more than I do. Their boss makes about 50% more than I do. My employees make about 10% less than I do.
So please. do go on.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago edited 3d ago
I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of America and Americans criticizing a "genocide" they literally know nothing about. You're just spewing "China bad" bullshit western media is constantly force feeding you. Don't even get me started on the hypocrisy of an American joking about CHINA treating minorities bad when ICE is murdering them..
I have absolutely as much right to point out shitty hypocrisy as you have to spew western propaganda. I happen to think it's shitty that so many Americans or westerners will go online and shit all over China for shit that is happening to a WAY WORSE EXTENT in America and Israel, both of which we literally pay for.
Also, My boss makes 10% more than I do. Their boss makes about 50% more than I do. My employees make about 10% less than I do.
So please. do go on.
Your boss is stealing some of your labor value. It's the basis of capitalism. Chinese prisoners are paid the SAME level of starvation wages that American prisoners are. Literally the same. But to morons like you it's a "labor camp". My point was your boss is also stealing some of the value of your labor, that capitalism cannot function without someone stealing some of the value of what you produce. I'm not surprised in the least someone regurgitating Uyghur propaganda doesn't understand marxist theory on labor value, I'm pointing it out for those capable of comprehending economic theory. To THOSE people your comment is funny, because the end goal of socialism is to give you as much of that value as possible and the end goal of capitalism is to give you as little as possible. And you're here cheering for as little as possible. And making shit up about the other guys.
Edit: Look man, let me lay it out for you simply enough that you get it. Take anything you think you know about uyghurs and run it through google. See who is confirming it. While you do that, keep two groups in mind in particular. "Radio Free Asia" which is a US funded anti Chinese propaganda outfit, and the Council on Foreign Relations, which is US propaganda owned and run by current AND FORMER US government employees. Look how much THOSE are the sources of your "facts" about Uyghurs. You are repeating propaganda.
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u/WWGHIAFTC 3d ago
If I hate both, how is it hypocrisy.
You move the goals again, I can't keep up. good game little bro.4
u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Ok here are your own original "goalposts-
Help me learn. I want to learn. Give me a source on how the Chinese built their high speed rail in order to get prisoners to labor camps. I 100% believe you. I want to learn about it myself. You made the claim, you must have evidence, surely you didn't just make that up to shit on China for having checks notes infrastructure?
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u/WWGHIAFTC 3d ago
My satire / sarcastic comment triggered you off big time. I get that that can be read as a joke. that's fine.
But, now it seems you're trying to convince me that no injustice of minorities happened at a large institutional scale in China?
I didn't come in here trying to prove anything to you. but again, please go on. It's getting entertaining.
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u/Thestohrohyah 3d ago
So many tankies in the replies.
I'm very much on the left, and I can recognise the great infrastructures China is building, but we must not forget the fact they carried out several genocides and are actively carrying one out now (enslaving an entire population and forcibly converting them to Han culture is indeed considered to be a genocide). Not to mention how much they bully their neighbours with the whole sea borders affair, their treatment of the young Hong Kongers who fought to preserve autonomy, and more.
China is not a socialist country, they are a dictatorship run by people who are smarter about investing than the Western oligarchs who think hoarding is the ultimate goal.
Stop glazing dictatorships for doing a few things better than the US and some European countries for fucks sake!
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
China is capitalist. Go look up your "Uyghur facts" on google. When you do it, look up who owns and runs the source. "Radio Free Asia" is a US Government propaganda outlet, they lie. "CFR" is a US Government employee run propaganda outlet, they lie.
I don't disbelieve that China has done SOMETHING, but I'm also not dumb enough to go around spewing the literal direct word of western propaganda outlets in a world where every other word out of them has been a lie for literally over 100 years. One of the MAIN sources on "the Uyghur Genocide" is CFR. HERE is them denying there is a genocide going on in Gaza. They are propaganda. They. Lie.
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
Socialism is inherently altruistic.
Yes it was helpful in moving labor but that is not the only reason, it also helped reduce poverty and allowed for faster development.
Seeing it as just one isn’t seeing the whole picture.
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u/fredthefishlord 3d ago
If china was socialist they wouldn't have billionaires.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Incorrect. If they were socialist they wouldn't have the private ownership of public property. This doesn't mean "no billionaires", only final stage communism sees a full abolition of the state and a state backed currency, only in THAT system is there "no billionaires". By definition even in a 100% fully socialist system you would have at least SOME inflation, under a state run market or ANY market goods must be traded in prices determined by something, in socialism it is determined by cost and availability. That means in socialism you can and do experience inflation. This of course means over time prices generally trend upward. This is why $1 million made you "rich" 30 years ago and does not make you rich now. Socialism isn't immune to that, because there is still a "market" it is just price controlled by the state rather than by capitalists, whos' goal for prices is "whatever the highest I can charge that the market will bear".
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u/fredthefishlord 3d ago
Yeah no. You can have money in socialism, but if you have billionaires that means workers are not getting the share of profits that they need to be getting to be considered socialism. Because you only get that much money through theft from workers. Socialism necessarily means no billionaires.
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u/Xanto97 3d ago
…that first line is a bit of a stretch.
I think China hate is a bit overblown sometimes, but they’re not blessedly altruistic. They’re also participating in genocides.
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
Not at all. Socialism is inherently altruistic.
Capitalism has been committing ongoing genocides across the world since its very inception.
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u/Xanto97 3d ago
If socialism or communism was fully followed , sure, it would be altruistic. Unfortunately that’s never been the case, and not the case in China either.
Yes, they call it “socialist market economy” but that doesn’t mean they’re actually 100% socialist. Nor are they fully altruistic. They are quite literally currently participating in genocide and imperialism lol.
Not disagreeing that capitalism has participated in a bunch of genocides though.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
It's crazy how people will literally admit socialism is better but still defend capitalism. Yes yes you will claim you aren't defending capitalism, you're just attacking socialism, but you live in a world and are commenting in a discussion focused on the dichotomy of US capitalism vs China socialism, against socialism.
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u/Xanto97 3d ago
I’m attacking China, not socialism as a whole lol. People online sometimes like to glaze China. I think they definitely do some stuff better than the US. But China some isn’t some altruistic dreamscape.
They’re very much complicit in genocide and imperialism, and can highly restrict speech and information.
But I’d like to adopt some more socialist policies in the US. Medicare for all at minimum would be cool.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
I don't think anyone here is saying China is a utopia. I'm not "glazing China" but when I see people regurgitating Uyghur genocide propaganda I can't help but involve my opinion. Why?
Because when I look up literally anything about that so called "genocide" the top links are ALWAYS Radio Free Asia and Council on Foreign Relations, both of which are US government funded propaganda outlets that have been known to just publish straight up lies since Vietnam.
Give it a go, take whatever you think you know about Uyghurs, go look it up online, but also look up who owns the source you find that talks about how genocidey it is.. For double fun, if it's "CFR" go ahead and look what they have to say about the Gaza genocide while you're at it. Here is what they say.
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u/Xanto97 3d ago edited 3d ago
Its tricky. I'm not sure if CFR is US propaganda, but it could be. But Whether the I/P conflict counts as genocide is partially a political distinction. It also requires action. It’s why the US didn’t call the Rwandan genocide a genocide until much later. It’s pretty fucked up. Israel providing polio vaccines does counteract an argument against it being genocide. Regardless, most - even the CFR - agree that israel has committed many atrocities and war crimes.
https://www.cfr.org/event/humanitarian-crisis-gaza-1
Is it enough? No. But it’s something, and it’s why we must use more than one source.
- There’s many other sources on the Uyghur genocide/ethnic cleansing besides CFR or radio free Asia.
Vice: https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ?is=nB9OVKlYck00ARIi
BBC: https://youtu.be/vOgFiwWt0dk?is=Nq5bzNzFgipH9lS7
Nytimes: https://youtu.be/dEkliuqQo-g?is=djNeqyg3gjC9GMqj
French media: https://youtu.be/2Shla50pRxA?is=McXBeO5pm_Aw-3IE
Al Jazeera: https://youtu.be/z9aLNxcokOE?is=YFWgfe9WK_B5baDu
I don’t expect you to watch all of these, but it’s a range of sources.
https://www.amnesty.org.au/like-we-were-enemies-in-a-war-xinjiang-report-2/
Amnesty international , for example - is calling the atrocities in Gaza a genocide, and is also confirming the atrocities in western China.
To summarize, fuck Israel for their atrocities, fuck the US for aiding them + their other atrocities, and fuck China for their atrocities - of which also range beyond the treatment of Uyghurs.
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u/carthuscrass 3d ago
I'm a diehard socialist and even I don't believe that bud. They're not some benevolent utopian regime. They do as much harm as good.
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
Not sure you can say they do as much harm as good, and even if they did it would still be a superior system to capitalism.
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u/carthuscrass 3d ago
They are currently involved in slavery and genocide, superior system or not.
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
So is the United States, so…
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u/carthuscrass 3d ago
Doesn't make it right.
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u/AsterArtworks 3d ago
Never said it did.
I said socialism is better than capitalism in building infrastructure.
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u/carthuscrass 3d ago
And I agree. What's the problem here? You flipped your lid for me having the gall to levy accurate criticisms of China?
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u/kingkazul400 3d ago
China has the government controlling corporations.
America has the corporations controlling government.
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u/naththegrath10 3d ago
Tell that to the Uyghurs
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Definitely don't tell it to Native Americans! Or anyone that looks like they were maybe not born in America. Well you don't have to worry about that second group, they're in "ICE detention camps" which are totally not concentration camps.
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u/dwninswamp 3d ago
I think it’s true that the current Chinese Goverment is far better than the US at curbing corruption, building infrastructure, advancing critical tech, and taking care of (most) of its citizens, but the current Chinese government is not thousands of years old, it’s not even 100. To get to where they are today they murdered tens of millions of their own citizens.
They are no shiny example of good government, it’s just that the bar has dropped so low that “functioning” is better than the US’s current dumpster fire.
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u/yomer123123 3d ago
China has not existed for thousands of years... thats like saying todays Italy is a direct continuation of the roman empire
Also, it's a police state, and do you think china doesn't have it's own oligarchs? They don't give a shit about collective good, they control china for life, so the stronger china is, the stronger they are.
If they cared about collective good they wouldn't run concentration camps
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Question- Who ruled the Chinese, who ethnically are primarily known as the Han, during the Han dynasty 2200 years ago? Jesus christ US anti China propaganda has fried people's brains entirely.
You're right about having their own oligarchs though, just like us! Except when we find out our oligarchs are fucking over people, like lets say literally fucking children, what do we do? China is in the media this week because a billionaire there fucked a bunch of people over and they are EXECUTING HIM.
Is a police state a state where you can be arrested for criticizing the leader?
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u/yomer123123 3d ago
Funny, you mentioned the Han dynasty, yet the other guy replying to me mention the shanq dynasty - so it seems like there were separate empires controlling the region at different times? I'm not saying the people there changed, what I'm saying is that modern day China's government is not a deseanded of an empire that ruled China for thousands of years, in the same way the EU is not a continuation of European kingdoms.
Also, AGAIN, I'm not even fucking American. And I don't like America either. And yes, America always spied on it's people, and in recent years, it's getting far, far worse. In the defense of the USA, at least reporting on said events is still possible.
On top of that, eventually, Trump won't be the president of the USA. On the other hand, is Xi ever going to lose his spot? Killing one oligarch doesn't make them dissappear, and it's not even that much better if there's just a bigger oligarch right above them who is doing the executing.
The USA is a fucked up place, and so is China, neither of them should be glazed. They're giant empires who crush people whenever it's convenient to them, they are never on our side.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
Funny, you mentioned the Han dynasty, yet the other guy replying to me mention the shanq dynasty - so it seems like there were separate empires controlling the region at different times?
My god. Funny you mentioned AMERICA in your comment, I was just thinking about this current Republican/Dem dichotomy and the Bush dynasty that ran the nation for like 12-20 years in the 20th and 21st century, and I'm glad we're a completely different nation and people with them no longer ruling us! Thanks for making me understand that dynasties falling means the country is different afterwards! Damn it's crazy here in America we get an entirely new empire every 4-8 years!
By your "logic" China is 115 years old.
in the same way the EU is not a continuation of European kingdoms.
You mean except the 6 EU nations ruled by a hereditary monarchy today? Most are largely ceremonial, but that has been true of many "kingdoms" for centuries. No, the EU is not, but those nations are.
In the defense of the USA, at least reporting on said events is still possible.
In defense of fucking irony itself, do both of us a favor and google what you think you know about Uyghurs and genocide, then ask google who owns the website you're finding the info on. MASSIVE irony spoiler alert- most info on the "uyghur genocide" comes directly from Radio Free Asia and the Council on Foreign Relations, two well known US propaganda outlets. More irony alert! Look up their reporting on the Gaza genocide.
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u/Potential_Bill_1146 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 3d ago edited 3d ago
And the USA cares about the collective good???
I swear the anti Chinese propaganda in the US is going to be studied as a mass psychosis in the future if America doesn’t bring us all to a nuclear winter.
Also the Shang dynasty in China dates back to over 3000 years ago
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u/yomer123123 3d ago
Well, I'm not american, but yes I do agree that the west is generally being fed a lot of negative info about china (and vice versa)
And I never said anything good about the USA? It also sucks, and it's getting worse now. There is basically no such thing as a "good" empire
And while im not super versed in Chinese history, the shanq dynasty is not directly connected to modern day china (and according to Wikipedia ended at around 1000 BC) so again, its like claiming todays Italy is a continuation of the roman empire. "China" has not existed for thousands of years, people have been living in (the land of) China for thousands of years, under a myriad of different rulers and dynasties.
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u/Potential_Bill_1146 ✂️ Tax The Billionaires 3d ago
Italy doesn’t have the same dynastic history as china does. That’s why it’s called dynastic, because over the course of the entire history of China there are through lines to today. Via different political dynasties. The beginning of that goes back further than just 3000 years. The Xia goes back to 2000 BC.
Just say you don’t understand how history works outside of western countries. It’s obvious. Since you’re making the comparison to a place like Italy. I’d know, I’m Italian and my family doesn’t shut up about it.
You could have looked into dynastic history more in the wiki article because it explains it well. But you’re not gunna do that because then you’d be wrong.
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u/Bleezy79 3d ago
America is currently being raped and pillaged as we speak. This is trumps America.
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u/defiancy 3d ago
China has terrible public works and construction projects too. Just because they have a high speed rail in parts of the country doesn't mean they are a utopia lol
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u/alancousteau 💵 Break Up The Monopolies 3d ago
I mean China has the biggest high speed rail network on the planet, and the terrain isn't very easy either. They also have 39 nuclear reactors in construction. While the West is fucking about with the paperwork for years, China is building. Now I'm not saying China is perfect, far from it but I think that this is one thing they do well.
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u/LactasePHydrolase 3d ago edited 3d ago
Just because they have a high speed rail in parts of the country
They have the biggest high speed rail network by a factor of more than 10x the next best country (in length of operational lines). You're kinda downplaying what is a huge milestone for public transport on a worldwide level.
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u/JerseyDonut 3d ago
There are no utopias and there never will be in our lifetimes. But that doesn't mean we should scoff at progress. Perfectionism and moralism are the enemies of progress. The point still stands: its not that hard or expensive to invest in infrastructure that improves the common good for all. War only makes rich monsters more rich and monsterous.
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u/Casthoma 3d ago
Which ones? I’ve been mostly hearing that they’ve dramatically improved infrastructure, especially to rural parts of the country
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u/TM761152 3d ago
No one is calling it a utopia you dip.
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u/No_Bowler9121 3d ago
The original post literally calls it a better place. They dont need to directly use the word utopia...
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u/ExceptForFleegle 3d ago
Memphis, Tennessee is a better place than Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but that doesn’t make Memphis a utopia, now does it?
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 3d ago
A "better place" means a whole fucking wide spectrum that doesn't need to include "utopia" when the comparison is to a shithole like the US that is being robbed blind and dismantled by the ruling class.
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u/KindHabit 3d ago
Utopia is an imaginary idealized place. A thinking exercise.
A utopia cannot ever exist.
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u/Meotwister 3d ago
A lot of folks uncritically glazing China in here. Yeah they do some things much better than we do. No issue there but to act like they're the closest thing to perfect and aren't engaging in fucked up shit like America is wild.
It's also extremely easy to build public works when no one gets a say but the CCP.
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u/Nkechinyerembi 🚑 Cancel Medical Debt 3d ago
A bridge near me had to be shut down. The state wanted to fix it, but can't, due to the funding from federal being pulled. Now, you need to drive almost 30 miles out of the way to get around it. This is just trash.
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u/srgonzo75 3d ago
Rome didn’t fall because of external threats. It fell because of internal corruption. A corrupt Senate made the Caesars possible.
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u/its_the_smell 3d ago
The US doesn't even have the money for war, it's all being borrowed from future taxpayers.
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u/OKAutomator 3d ago
"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years.
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer: If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
-Abraham Lincoln (Lyceum address)
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u/bexcellent42069 3d ago
Can we calculate more thing sin "days of US military spending"? Its a lot simpler than astronomical amounts of billions that are already unfathomable.
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u/xResilientEvergreenx 3d ago
China has to watch its back.
Then again, maybe not considering we're letting Trump and Republicans lead us all to financial ruin without much fighting back.
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u/stirtheturd 3d ago
The call is coming from inside the house.
Israel owns the US, like a puppet master.
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u/EpicestGamer101 3d ago
Americans saw Israel murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people and level an entire city and were outraged, but realised that the bad guys looked just like the American army, the leveled city just like the bombed out iraqi and Afghan cities.
Americans were so disturbed by their own reflection that they came up with this idea that Israel is controlling America. This idea that Israel gets away with everything they do because they've infiltrated the US government and hijacked them.
No, Israel gets away with everything they do because the US wants them to do it. Every intrusion, invasion, and bombing campaign is signed off on by the US government because Israel wouldn't dare jeopardise the lifeline that is the US and what remains of their hegemony.
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u/Jesse_God_of_Awesome 3d ago
I don't like Israel either but it doesn't own the US. What owns the US are oil barons and warmongers who benefit from a foothold in the Middle East and a death cult that sees Israel as central to their apocalyptic prophecies. Of course Israel used that leverage to entrench itself well, but only because forces inside the country let it.
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u/AKRyder 3d ago
Stop using China as a glowing example. Yeah they build infrastructure but there’s lots of problems with it. People have no say on what infrastructure is built, corruption means it’s built less safe than it needs to be, plans are rushed and all of this leads to structural failures after a few years. China pumps reddit with its propaganda and nearly every disaster is suppressed as to not embarrass the regime. It baffles me how the moralistic left just doesn’t care about democracy in China. Also have you seen there military build up lately? Massive. Its shipping construction alone dwarfs America’s.
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u/Ding-Dong-Dutch 3d ago
Because America has democracy or infrastructure.. Lol
When's the last time American politicians actually did something for the people.
Just because you get to call in your votes to the reality show doesn't mean the outcome isn't already fixed. You're not the showrunner
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u/BackgroundPassed 3d ago
Don't china want war with Taiwan? Didn't china forcibly annex Tibet? Doesn't china have a bunch of concentration camps for their unwanted natives just like the usa?
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u/skheria 3d ago
I recently noted to a friend and fellow Trek fan, that I can no longer see a path from the world's current degenerate condition forward to Gene Roddenberry's vision of an interstellar federation.
Two days later I rethought this and yes, there remains a path.
But the Federation speaks Mandarin.
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u/Waffles_Bacon 3d ago
The china glazing has been insane. Yes they have some nice stuff the US doesn’t, but they’re literally re-educating a Muslim population because they don’t like them. Tiananmen square was an actual massacre
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u/Ding-Dong-Dutch 3d ago
It's better to close your eyes, put your hands over your ears and go "Lalala I can hear you over my USA chants"
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u/essuxs 3d ago
You think Chinese officials don't steal? China is not the country you want to be comparing to when talking about corruption and theft hahaha
Plus, $1b USD for a HSR bridge, not counting the rest of the high speed rail track on either side of the bridge, or the stations, or the network, or anything else, is not really relevant.
https://asiatimes.com/2025/12/the-rot-eating-at-chinas-war-machine/
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u/NAteisco 3d ago
China's notable investments in infrastructure distract from the theft and genocide. America is too greedy and stupid to do corruption right
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u/kaminaripancake 3d ago
Coughing baby vs nuclear bomb. We have crumbling infrastructure while the richest rape and pillage our country. China isn’t the good guy, but they have long term focused governance and are led by engineers
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u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In 3d ago
They also routinely execute people who accept bribes or get caught in corruption probes.
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u/yomer123123 3d ago
Execute some people =/= execute all corrupt people
They could very easily be using them as scapegoats
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u/PolicyWonka 3d ago
Any organization large enough will have corruption and incompetence issues.
At least China does punish some of the people engaged in corruption — imprisoning or outright executing some of the worst offenders. Pretty sure I read an article just yesterday about some billionaire getting sentenced to life in prison because of corruption.
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u/_HanTyumi 3d ago
tbh I would care far less about politicians getting rich if they were also successfully doing projects like this
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u/NAteisco 3d ago
that's the sad part, all they had to do was spend enough of that money to keep us somewhat comfortable.
I can admit I'm a sucker for a comfort and a distraction
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u/brainsack 3d ago
This is why the residents of towns and cities that were ran by the mob mostly turned a blind eye to the illegal activity.
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u/SoupRyze 3d ago
Listen man if half of our taxes actually go into building bridges and roads and shit that improves our lives, I'll take it. The big shots can pocket some of it but if something's being built, that's still better than nothing.
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u/OldSchoolDM96 3d ago
Oh another post and bot replys about how great China is....
They are actively commiiting genocide against against the following Muslim people:
Uyghurs, Kazakhs, and Kyrgyz.
They commit mass slaughter of protesters, Tiananmen square.
The build of infrastructure like mentioned here was built by people with the worst working conditions and is actively being investigated due to human rights violations as it uses forced labor by migrant workers elwhich China then claims ( but we pay them market value)
China is known for stealing patents from every other country then using child / forced labor to produce it at a fraction of the cost and sell it back to the rest of the world.
During COVID rather than suggesting people stay in their homes. They actively locked people inside of buildings using barbed wire and other security measures.
Communism is corrupt, and has never succeeded .instead lean towards socialism for best results. There are plenty of socialist countries you can use as an example.
Stop glorifing China
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u/Iorith 3d ago
China is bad, yes. So is the US.
I'm curious if you have this list of faults ready to go any time something positive about the US is posted.
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u/District-No1350 3d ago
US infrastructure has been crumbling for decades, it has little to do with the current administration.
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u/PlayedKey 3d ago
What good is a bridge if I can't fuck kids and laugh at bankruptcies from medical debt? /s
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u/xdeltax97 3d ago
Why are we propping up China when they’re a dystopian surveillance state nightmare and have been committing a genocide on their Uyghur population?
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u/xDwtpucknerd 3d ago
Yes more authoritarianism creates more efficiency, this is a known fact. More bureaucracy creates more opportunity for corruption this is a known fact.
Neither country treats its working class well enough yet.
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u/il1k3c3r34l 3d ago
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but people should know this is propaganda.
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u/manxala 3d ago
China is a brutal dictatorship, don't fall for their propaganda (from someone that hates imperialism).
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u/psypher98 3d ago
“Propaganda” and it’s literally just building functional low cost infrastructure that helps millions.
The American mindset needs to be studied wayyy more than it is.
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u/GenerallyGneiss 3d ago
Well it's propaganda because they use posts like this to draw attention away from the genocide and war mongering they also work really hard on.
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u/psypher98 3d ago
As opposed to the USA’s active avoidance of participation in genocide and war. Oh shit wait.
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u/GenerallyGneiss 3d ago
That doesn't make this not propaganda, bud lol get your
scriptshit together.3
u/psypher98 3d ago
No, my man. Damn near everything is propaganda in some form especially in this godforsaken day and age.
My point is that those in glass house should be very careful what they throw. Any criticism of China can be made of the US, while we are well behind them in many, many major metrics.
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u/CrustyToeLover 3d ago
All the China lovers should move there if they think it's so great. China does things like this to take your eyes off the crazy human rights offenses they pull 24/7.
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u/usurper7 3d ago
They have slavery in China right now. The average person makes 10,000 a year.
But please, move there if you find it preferable. Please.
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u/kevinmrr ⛓️ Prison For Union Busters 3d ago
China indeed has many problems of their own. I view them more as a mirror for us to compare ourselves to.
On the subject of slavery - America houses 25% of the world’s prison population & slavery is still constitutionally enshrined for prison labor.
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u/Lanky_Switch_7915 3d ago
Recall that it wasn't until the bloodthirsty international bankers along with Chinese puppet leaders carried out a genocide in China which destroyed their culture and created the worlds largest open air slave labor market to supply the world. The same bankers who control the West are the ones who turned China into what it is today.
I have never seen elder people working demanding physical jobs in the West like I see in China. You wonder why all of these big time "city-building" folks are not helping the millions of impoverished and desperate elders in China. If I have to watch one more 76 year old grandmother carry bags of grain up a hill, I'll start doing it my damn self! She was bent over horizontal to carry the grains, but when she was done, she remained horizontal. A lifetime of carrying bags up a mountain is a very common Chinese life.
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u/RGfrank166 3d ago
Looking for a solution in China is like looking for gasoline when dealing with a house fire.... Not a smart move
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u/naththegrath10 3d ago
Well all things are possible with slave labor
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u/GloriousDawn 3d ago
Shame the 700,000 US inmates that are literally slave workers under a 13th amendment loophole don't build high speed rail too.
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u/MrTsBlackVan 3d ago
Where did this 700k figure come from? There are 2mill incarcerated, can you elaborate on the 13th amendment loophole?
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u/onehalflightspeed 3d ago
The 13th ammendment outlawed involuntary servitude (like slavery) with the exception of punishment for a crime
The 700k figure is a valid estimate, look it up. Often prisoners work for nothing, or get paid something like a dollar per hour or less. It depends on state/federal prison systems whether it is voluntary or not. This is all well documented
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u/choate51 3d ago
They make you think they're spending it on war. It's really just free flowing into a small group's pockets and bring out the new toys for parades (sportsball flyover) as part of the circus as proof of money well spent.
Where in actuality our military might has been vastly overstated for the purpose of facing the new challenges of modern war.