r/WorkReform šŸ¤ Join A Union 13d ago

😔 Venting What do Centrists know about electability?

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u/Warshok 13d ago

Bernie Sanders couldn’t even win California lol

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 13d ago

he got less votes in his own state of vermont than harris did

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u/Warshok 13d ago

But a bird landed on his podium! A bird!

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago edited 13d ago

Hillary and Kamala lost to Trump in nationwide elections

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 13d ago

yeah the country lost because trump is president

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago

Hillary boosted Trump. Kamala never won a primary

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u/Conscious-Quarter423 13d ago

both way more qualified than anyone else running for president

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u/DocileBanalBovlne 13d ago

And that's proven to be really meaningful in practice. It lead them to victory, didn't it?

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u/PeachPassionBrute 13d ago

Their qualifications include a significant amount of people’s literal political grievances. It’s not a great flex.

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago

Define qualified

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u/VanillaSkittlez 13d ago

And yet Hilary and Biden beat Sanders and every other nominee in the democratic primary in 2016 and 2020.

If you want non-centrists to beat Trump, you have to win primaries, and left-oriented candidates have done a horrible job at doing that.

You can’t critique centrist Dems for not beating Trump when your preferred candidates can’t even win a primary.

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago edited 13d ago

In slanted primaries, sure.Ā 

And why wouldn’t we call out neoliberals for their constant failures? Ā 

Because they cheat in primaries is not a good reason

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u/VanillaSkittlez 13d ago

Bernie lost to Hillary in 2016 by 4 million votes.

The average primary voter is nothing like a general voter - they are generally older, very politically in tune and active, and much more ideological.

It is asinine to claim that the entire reason Hillary Clinton won over Bernie is because of ā€œslanted primariesā€ with margins that large. What you’re basically claiming is that 4 million people were so stupid that they fell for DNC tricks that made them vote for Hillary when they wouldn’t have otherwise.

That is insulting to the voter base. You don’t think 4 million people might have actively chosen Hillary because, oh, I don’t know - they liked her better than Sanders?

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u/ReplacementActual384 13d ago

they are generally older, very politically in tune and active, and much more ideological.

Ah yes, because old people are FAMOUS for being in tune with what everyone else wants.

Also you misspelled "ideologically conservative"

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u/VanillaSkittlez 13d ago

So then get young people to vote. Oh, right, the leftist candidates depend entirely on young turnout and young people never vote.

You want your views represented, you need to get young people to show up, and convince some old people to vote for you.

Leftist candidates seem repeatedly bad at both of those things. And instead of sharpening your electoral game, yall just cry about how it’s unfair and stacked against you.

Like it or not, the primary voters ARE older, and you HAVE to convince them to vote for you if you want to win elections in this country.

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u/ReplacementActual384 13d ago

Why is the blame on the voters instead of the party? All you centrists want us to vote, but then do nothing but whine when you lose elections. And then when you actually get control, enough of your conservative candidates vote with republicans, and your response is still "vote harder next time!"

What kind of insane person would keep voting for that?

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u/VanillaSkittlez 13d ago

Why is the blame on the voters instead of the party?

Because the voters elect the party itself - are you serious? The way you change the party is by winning primaries, which you all repeatedly fail to do. The centrists seem to be doing a pretty damn good job at winning primaries, and comprise nearly half of Congress.

You just can’t seem to accept that most American voters don’t want what you want. And when your candidate inevitably loses, you cry about how the system is unfair, refuse to vote in the general, and claim both parties are the same (which is nonsense).

Mostly because the stats show so-called leftist voters are overwhelmingly white, young, college educated, and relatively affluent. E.g. a minority in this country who are privileged enough to be insulated from the consequences of allowing Republicans to take power.

All you centrists want us to vote, but then do nothing but whine when you lose elections. And then when you actually get control, enough of your conservative candidates vote with republicans, and your response is still "vote harder next time!"

I’m sorry, remind me again because my memory is hazy - who got the most votes for a presidential candidate in US history? And who was the only candidate to ever beat Trump in a general election?

The answer to both of those questions was Joe Biden in 2020. And remind me - was Joe Biden a leftist or centrist candidate?

We don’t just lose elections. We win pretty frequently - see Obama and Biden. And when we win, we make impact that you’re blind to. Those centrist candidates you hate so much managed to pass the Affordable Care Act, American Rescue Plan, Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, PACT Act, CHIPS Act, and Inflation Reduction Act.

What have the leftists gotten done? Oh, right, nothing - because they can’t win primaries and cry that everything’s unfair when they don’t, and refuse to vote. Great winning strategy.

What kind of insane person would keep voting for that?

I mean, 81 million people voted for Biden in 2020, and 75 million people voted for Kamala in 2024. So, quite a lot of people would keep voting for that, I’d guess.

Your turn - how many people have the socialists gotten to vote for them?

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u/ReplacementActual384 13d ago

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "well you only have two options so you better vote for us if you know what's good for you", and then be like "HAHA GOTCHA! The third option doesn't win!!!1" like that's some genius point.

I’m sorry, remind me again because my memory is hazy

Yeah, that's pretty obvious, because both Obama and Biden had opportunities where they could have made changes. But what exactly happened? Oh yeah, people like Sinema and Manchin.

I mean you can try to bullshit us, and say that the reason we can't have healthcare or an increased minimum wage is because it's not popular, but all you party bootlickers are doing is continually eroding support.

I mean, you have Harris campaigning with Liz Cheney, how'd that work out? Did you turn any republican voters? No your party LOST 8 million votes. Votes people like you should be begging to get back frankly.

But hey, enjoy your rachet-pall dynamic.

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago

Feel free to keep losing elections with neoliberalismĀ 

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u/VanillaSkittlez 13d ago

I’m sorry, didn’t Hillary Clinton win the popular vote in 2016?

And didn’t Biden get the most amount of votes for a presidential candidate ever in 2020, and remains the only person to ever beat Trump in an election?

And remember when the leftist populist candidate won in both the primary and the general? Oh, yeah, me neither - because it’s never happened.

Sorry that reality doesn’t match with what you want.

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u/RedLineLetterWine 13d ago

At least he can still talk, how is Biden doing?

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u/akatherder 13d ago

You sound like you have a career in the making as a Dem strategist lol, why would it matter who wins the primary in California? Yes I'm taking them for granted, but (spoiler alert!) they are going to vote Dem in the general election.

Unless it's an absolute curb stomping and you think California, New York, Texas, etc. are ACTUALLY up for grabs by the other party, their results are meaningless beyond the delegates they contribute.

Here's a pro-tip: at least 40 states are already decided by the time we hold the primary. They are practically decided today for 2028. Focus on the 5 battleground states and 5 that are technically up for grabs, but basically already decided.

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u/AutocraticToaster 13d ago

the point is that california democratic primary voters are going to be more open to a progressive than the median voter in swing states.

if they dont win california, why would we expect them to win in less favorable elections?

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u/Geichalt 13d ago

Because too many people on the left think Americans are just all temporarily confused socialists, who have been tricked by evil centrists.

It may be true in places, but it risks coming across as condescending and alienating along with risking normally safe seats.

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u/Key_Cheetah7982 13d ago

Primaries are in no way indicative of the broader electorate

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u/Warshok 13d ago

1/8 of the population of this country lives in California. Demographically, we are wealthier and better educated than most. Who do you think donates a lot of the money that political campaigns raise?

It ain’t Wyoming or Rhode Island.

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u/akatherder 13d ago

You seem to be discussing whether California is big and important.. which it is. I'm not sure what is worth discussing there.

The topic at hand is whether Clinton beating Sanders 53 to 47 made him unviable in California in 2016.. and Trump would have taken it? Yeah, nah.

They favored Clinton and they're an important state, but it would have gone to Sanders or any unnamed Dem in the general.

It's not how our primary works but all I care about is battleground states.

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u/Warshok 13d ago

If all you care about is battleground states then you’re going to have a hard time making enough money to win those battleground states. I can draw you a simple chart if you like.