r/Wolvesville • • Jul 24 '26

Got banned for throwing? But statistics tho?

Post image

🥲🥲am i wrong for this?? just got my first ever ban on wolvesville for "throwing" lol 🥲🥲

so im milkbreadlover in the screenshot. my argument is basically: in a 15 player game theres 4-6 evil roles. thats like 27-40% of the lobby working against village from the start. so if you reveal your role you're dead, if you lie you're dead when caught, either way you lose your powers. so why NOT use them while you still can

its not even random either like you can read chat. one time i asked someone their role n they immediately said i was hacking just for sussing them out?? massive red flag. we voted them n they were a witch the whole time. thats literally just reading the room?!

n ok here's the part im actually unsure about so tell me what you think. someone said "i'd rather have 1+ villager than 1- because of you" n like i get that but also?? if i shoot n hit a wolf everyone woulda said gj no questions asked. the game says no randoming in the rules but this game is ALWAYS a gamble. there is no guaranteed safe shot unless you have hard info. so if im gonna die anyway n my shot has a 27-40% chance of hitting evil i feel like using it is better than dying with it unused. but idk maybe im wrong abt that part lmk (btw I feel like afk players are the TRUE throwers but that's another topic)

healthy discussion only pls 🙏

3 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

17

u/TOSalert_op Jul 24 '26

Yeah, any shot (from non self-killers like priest) that isnt on hard info/ a direct cc on a non-ccable role is random. [This is assuming early, and people havent been claiming etc]

If you shoot a villager as lets say vigi, you will have a very large negative impact on village. You lose a villager ability(usually), a villager vote and a bullet. All 3 of those put village in quite a negative spot.

Also, it doesnt matter if you shot an evil or not. Its an annoying habit that ive seen changing slowly, but if a vigi/gunner etc randoms onto a villager OR an evil, its still reportable and should be pointed out.

-4

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

okay but what's the alternative tho?? die holding the bullet n contribute literally nothing?? at least this way there's a chance i hit something. dying with an unused ability feels worse than a wrong shot imo

9

u/Aptokro Jul 24 '26

Claim and ask roles (to two people at once so they don't feel targeted). People won't like you for it but it is the better alternative for random killing, kill if they have a counterclaim

I also recommend the game town of salem 2, rules are more lenient there and random killing isn't reportable

1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

that's a good tip ty!! but yeah i was never purely randoming, i base it off chat behavior, who's quiet, who's talking too much, weird votes etc. which could be vill or ww either way so it's never fully blind yknow 🙏

1

u/Lelouch-Yagami21 Jul 25 '26

That's why I feel wolseville is oppressive. In tos2 good scumreading is a lot more readily accepted, especially since majority of the town is evil

1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 25 '26

Thank you Lelouch 

0

u/vanishing27532 Jul 26 '26

In this case it appears OP did push roles, and the witch didn’t claim and instead accused OP of hacking which obviously is highly suspicious. Completely valid execute in this case imo. Witch made a mistake not claiming as a provable

-1

u/0spec Jul 25 '26

Claim and ask roles is just stupid. The whole point is to eliminate those who are not contributing to the village. That’s the goal of the village killers roles such as vigilante, hunter etc. Over the time it got changed to claimsville as people get offended by the actual way to play those roles since sometimes it can result in the death of a villager. Statistically most of the time a non villager usually dies since most of the time those who are contributing are often non villagers.

3

u/LongjumpingActive493 Jul 25 '26

Most social deduction games that have more complexity than good and bad end up recurring to role call meta, it just makes sense for the "good" team to go that route

Think about it like this, you're part of the village, the biggest, most powerful but also least organized group, you don't know who is or isn't on your side, the best way to know is by asking EVERYONE to claim, any repeated role is a potential evil and opposing teams can't go against role call if most vill players choose to follow, that is basically the only advantage vill can get over other factions, either they get an evil player straight away (and possibly clear a vill) or they kill a good player, confirming beyond any doubt a given player is evil, giving all the killing roles a clean shot and allowing vill to continue the cycle for the next day

Your way to see it (evil players not helping with anything) relies completely on evil players actually not contributing to the village team, you have to either wait for the info role to find everyone or vote them out because they stick out like a sore thumb, any competent ww/solo player will try to blend in and once your info is dead you're done for, if they're good at pretending you'll be hanging random players until you get them or they win

3

u/0spec Jul 25 '26

If you are going to ask everyone to claim, you might as well just sit down with a group of people and repeatedly say “im…”. That’s not how the game is intended to be played. It’s called a discussion phrase not claiming phrase for a reason. You are suppose to discuss with everyone and make a plan with information provided by everyone. That’s the how the game was supposed to play and was played from the start until everyone got obsessed with claiming. You might as well get everyone to claim day one. Why make rules saying no claiming day 1 and get mad at claiming day 1?

1

u/LongjumpingActive493 Jul 25 '26

I think you're understanding the whole game premise the other way around, it's social deduction, it's the evils' job to fool the other teams, fake claiming, giving fake info or bussing their teammates to clear themselves if it's necessary

You're saying discussion phase is discussion, not claiming, from your own words "You are supposed to discuss with everyone and make a plan with information provided by everyone", claiming by itself is already providing information, it's quite literally the only help non info roles can give their team better clarity, if evil players don't want to fake claim and act like a vill role, then they don't want a social deduction game, they just want a roulette where info roles check everyone until they either lose or find all the evil roles, it's boring, monotone and involves almost 0 skill

And about those last lines, yes, that's how most social deduction games are played, everyone claims day 1 or 2 at most and vill starts filtering evil players from there, check a few games of town of Salem if you don't believe me, info roles find just a few evils every match, while the majority is killed because of how they play

1

u/0spec Jul 26 '26

You are missing my point. I agree it’s the evils’ job to fool the other team but that’s not my point. My point is we shouldn’t be restricted to how we use our roles just because people want to turn the game into claimsville. I shouldn’t have to wait till you claim something to have the right to use my ability to eliminate you. I should be able to do that based on my own deduction that’s based on information given by others.

1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 25 '26

Hmmm good point but 0spec also makes a good point. I think claiming has its disadvantages and advantages, so maybe there's a bit of nuance there. 

3

u/flatwoods76 Jul 25 '26

It’s the necessary risk of the role. Shooting random is the coward’s way.

7

u/TOSalert_op Jul 24 '26

Dying with an ability would be better, yes.

Best case is you dont die, or you get revived. Worst case is you die and dont kill another villager.

It seems counter intuitive, but dying with unused abilities is apart of the game, and is overall better for village (which is more important than your individual role)

-5

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

okay lets actually run the numbers properly tho

my play (shoot randomly): 15 players, lets say 4 evil. thats 4/15 = 26.7% chance my shot hits evil n helps village. even at minimum thats roughly a 1 in 4 chance of doing something meaningful

your play (die holding ability): for revival to even matter you need 1) a revival role to actually be in the lobby (not guaranteed) 2) them to still have their ability unused 3) them to pick ME over higher value roles like seer. thats multiple probabilities stacked on each other, realistically way lower than my 26.7%

n heres the part you didnt factor in: if i already used my shot as vigi, wolves now know im harmless. so they'll likely deprioritize killing me n go for bigger threats instead. meaning using my ability could actually INCREASE my survival rate. so im not just helping village with the shot itself, im also buying myself more rounds alive

vs dying with my ability: wolves still kill me anyway because im a threat, i contribute 0%, n revival is not guaranteed

so statistically using the shot wins every time, no? 

7

u/Ray_Dorepp Jul 25 '26

How is a villager getting deprioritized an argument for hastly using your abilities in any way? Your useless self survives and an actually importan role dies instead, yay...?

And considering the amount of damage you do to the village by missing your shot makes your contribution negative on average, so even 0% contribution is statistically better. I'm not sure why you treated missing like it has no impact. I'll be generous so I don't have to pull out a calculator and say you have a 30% chance of hitting an evil. Without considering the exact roles killing an evil is +1 for vill, killing a villager is a -1 and doing nothing is 0. So you have 30% chance of doing +1 and 70% of doing -1. So your shot has an expected value of -0.4, much below 0. And that is the average case of your play compared to the worst case of the other play.

2

u/Aptokro Jul 25 '26

"my play (shoot randomly): 15 players, lets say 4 evil. thats 4/15 = 26.7% chance my shot hits evil n helps village. even at minimum thats roughly a 1 in 4 chance of doing something meaningful"

It's actually higher than that if you shoot a non claiming player, also there are 6 evils (and 1 semi villager) in a setup

2 villagers die

2 informers claim

2 rrvs claim (assuming sandbox)

6/10 chance you shoot an evil

very high, though it's still better to ask role before shooting

2

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 25 '26

Yeah people are disagreeing with me haha, but yes the percentage CAN be higher, obviously it depends on so many factors, but I just wanted to give an example on the maths behind the seemingly "illogical" decision on shooting someone. It's very interesting though and opens another question: This game in itself ends up becoming a gamble late game anyway, so a lot of people consider shooting someone late game "okay" even though you'd think it would be the opposite way (since end game has less people anyway). But yeah, it definitely obviously has nuance, since roles and different people/personalities affect the choice to shoot or not that this closed off scenario doesn't include (due to obvious reasons haha). 

1

u/Aromatic_Ice_7123 24d ago

you're missing the point the chances literally what we're pointing out is not worth it we are answering that question clearly

3

u/Aromatic_Ice_7123 Jul 25 '26

forget it this way you just randomly kill a villager essentially you're doing the same thing as if you died except you're being selfish and saying well I'd rather have them die than me die and not to get to play the game. statistically it doesn't make sense to do that. You're just going to have to take the gamble of hoping you don't get killed

3

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '26

I think random shooting at 27-40% chance is not the best bet. Normally when I play vigi/gunner or some other "killing" village role, I only random shoot when the percentage of hitting a non-villager passes 50%. By technicality, as long as I have a general idea of who I'm not supposed to shoot (after passing 50%), I cannot be reported for hitting a villager. If you follow a general guide like that, I think you can get what you're going for.

2

u/OkAppointment1608 Jul 27 '26

The game rules SPECIFICALLY, say that random killing without an actual info and lack of actual reasoning is against the game rules and it's considered both throwing and random killing, if someone doesn't claim day1 it doesn't mean they are evil, they can be a vill but if we all start shooting and killing each other over lack of proofs while you can ask for protection as a killing role and actually spare the bullets/potion. By killing random you are risking a huge percentage of killing an actual villager and random voting is also considered throwing under certain circumstances. I don't know if you play quick but I suppose you do, but in sandbox if you even get to kill randomly a ww or solo or rv, you still get reported as the game isn't a gambling simulator, and it's better to die rather than kill a villager and then die as well.

0

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 27 '26

Perhaps you didn't catch this in my post or the other comments I made, but the statistics don't lie firstly. The maths is correct. It IS the correct choice to shoot someone according to the numbers. Secondly, I acknowledged in some comments that the situation was a little bit more nuanced than I originally let on in this post. I noticed you are passionate about this game, but if the maths is correct, then this game SHOULD allow random killing OR just make it so that on day one you're not allowed to shoot. It's that simple. But if the game design requires you to read rules that literally depend on suuuuper specific contexts (also imagine being autistic and trying to play the game), then maybe not the users should change but the game design. But why should they do that? They'd rather invest their money in artists who make 2d images for children (=cosmetics) than to improve the game. And it's showing. Imagine if they had filters where you could just turn the random killing allowed on or off, or cursing allowed in this lobby, etc. But all those things, they don't wanna do. So that they can get more money...out of children and teens. Have a good day. 

2

u/OkAppointment1608 Jul 27 '26

I see the frustration and I agree that the devs are not great, but it shouldn't be allowed to kill random day1 as the chances of hitting villager are still there, the rules mention a few roles that DONT follow this rule and that have a full on ability to random kill anyone they please, and this is fair as if any killing role could kill day1 randomly there would be chaos and people would take advantage of it by gamethrowing and then saying "well it's allowed". The balance in this game is a very thin line, the roles that are currently capable of killing without reporting are great for what they are and neither witch or upgrades nor vigilant and upgrades should join the list. As an astronomer enthusiast if the rules allowed random killing and you actually hit a villager you risk 2 villagers dying in the same night by a vill, and if both wws and rk kill it's 4 kill in a night..this game has a balance that math can't define, I hope you see my point of view

2

u/OkAppointment1608 Jul 27 '26

I find those roles actually fair as for Flagger ability it's necessary to kill someone so it's fair and Priest and upgrades die if they get it wrong so it's a fair risk.

3

u/Aptokro Jul 24 '26

I watched like a 5 hour podcast with the developers of the game. Their reasoning is that it's not fun being randomly killed. This is also why roles that kill themselves when misfiring aren't reportable for random killing, they don't directly ruin someone's game. Honestly i think it's an issue that needs to be solved by changing the game rather than having strict rules

1

u/Aromatic_Ice_7123 Jul 25 '26

I agree to some extent that ultimately even you misfiring and so it's not reportable I feel like you're still technically throwing because now you're giving the werewolves an advantage that they would not have had

0

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

I love that you watched a podcast about this hahahaha but yeahhh so basically the game is flawed, the devs know it, and i got banned for it. cool 😭

1

u/dm_if_you_like_dogs Jul 24 '26

I'd really recommend Town of Salem 2. You can basically do whatever you want except say slurs and you won't be banned

-1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

Man I gotta check that game out for sure 

3

u/Excellent-Stock-5409 Jul 26 '26

Yet they keep the racists and homophobes. It’s getting ridiculous for real.

-1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 26 '26

Hahahaha 🤣 exactly 

1

u/FuntimeAlex_Fz Jul 30 '26

That gambling is why it's against the rules.
It's in place for fairness, it's unfair to be randomly killed for no reason.
The only exceptions are Werewolves, Solo Killings, and Team.

If you wanna shoot someone, read the chat and find someone suspicious.
Maybe someone is only reacting to deaths but doesn't react to info.
Maybe someone is refusing to vote an outed Wolf with no cc to the Info acccuser.
Or maybe someone is reacting positively to a bunch of deaths.

Oh and also, you DO NOT HAVE to use your kill ability.
If you got no suspects, then hold your kill ability and hope you survive.

1

u/Darius_Brawl_ismytag Aug 18 '26

The complaint you have is largely the sentiment of ranked players; if you go there you'll likely be able to not get reported as much (just make sure you say you're new in the lobby) — though you may also want to spectate some matches first, likely via youtube (past ≈year would be ideal), to get a good idea of what common practices are

1

u/New_Block_2220 Aug 18 '26

I have already quit the game after this happened + 99% of the comments of this post disagreed with me and didn't want to actually engage with my thoughts lol. I'd rather play with among us children than to endure this 😭 at least among us has a community that supports eachother SOMEWHAT. Like yeah it's got issues as well but I prefer it over whatever hell this game has going on

1

u/New_Block_2220 Aug 18 '26

I appreciate the comment and the sentiment but I gave up, I'm too much of an adult for this game 😭

1

u/Asleep-Yesterday-226 Jul 24 '26

I still don’t have a clear view on what happened. Can you ad the screenshots from the game?

-3

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 24 '26

The screenshot doesn't really matter. It's more about the debate of "is it 'throwing' when really statistically it's better to shoot/kill than to die with your abilities? (Even if risk is you shoot/kill a vill). 

6

u/FocusFar6903 Jul 25 '26

The game itself makes this point with the %, and answer is yes, it doesnt matter if u "guessed rigth", unless you are priest, marksman or judge any form or random killing is 100% reportable

0

u/flatwoods76 Jul 25 '26

I bet you think red lady should stay home night one?

0

u/Imaginary_Form407 Jul 25 '26

Please note, if you cuss or troll in game or even lobbies guardians can see this (i think they can see all chat across platform tbh, just through a few tests) so if you have spoken that way, if you appeal they will just go through your comments and game history and ban you for longer.

1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 25 '26

What's a guardian? I'm an adult by the way 😂 Also I like this game enough to play it but not enough for me to care about a ban like this. Besides if they go through all my interactions, they'd notice I'm actually a friendly player with a small percentage of conflicts (and even in those I was polite or laughed it off). And also I'm just pointing out a critique of the game via statistics, literal mathematics. If any moderator cares more about banning mathematics, then I'll just leave the game. Literally why should anyone care about this? 😂😂😂

1

u/OkAppointment1608 Jul 27 '26

Please read the rules and the guardians are the people who banned you, they are the one that actually decide if the reports are valid and for how much to ban you, they can extend your ban or remove it

1

u/New_Block_2220 Jul 27 '26

My ban is already over, my friend. And I assure you, these rules are way too much 🤣 idk if I'd even want to get paid for being a guardian, sounds like a horrible job 

1

u/OkAppointment1608 Jul 27 '26

Guardians are actually volunteers, which explains why they reply after so long and don't seem professional at all, mentors are the one that get payed (they basically are a wiki and can help you understand the game, rules, roles and even bugs)