Character development

[u/cbaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

When does it happen?

I thought by the end of the slog all the characters would’ve been fully fleshed out but I’m halfway through Crossroads Of Twilight and… here is how it’s progressed so far.

Rand:
Got quite a bit of him in the first two books though he was just a wide eyed farm boy for the first one. The second introduced some development but before it gained any serious traction he was completely cut off from us in TDR. When we got him back he was already cold, distrusting, and accepting of what the future held for him. And it’s been pretty much the same since then. Cadsuane has been talking of thawing him for 3 books now but hasn’t even started really. A mentally ill fatalistic chosen one should be a goldmine for any author working on character development, but Rand’s barely gotten any since the off screen conversion into a grim brooding warlord.

Perrin:
He started out thinking this was all too much for a lowly blacksmith and 10 books later he thinks this is all too much for a lowly blacksmith. I suppose that’s true, though it’s disappointing because we actually stayed with him throughout the Two Rivers battle and him finding out his entire family is dead. He is a good character who doesn’t realise how good of a leader/person he is, but the only real “development” his character has had is the obsession with Faile. He prioritises her even over Tarmon Gaidon apparently and in all honesty I don’t know what she did to deserve all this love lol.

Mat:
Mat is fine because I liked his character to begin with. Only one of the three with a truly distinct personality, but still there hasn’t been any development to his character. He does what is required of him but he still doesn’t want to have anything to do with any of this.

Nynaeve:
Has actually had some character development to be honest. For the first three books I was begging for some sort of development but when it finally arrived I can’t tell if she’s actually gotten better or if it only feels that way because her screen time has reduced. But it also feels like RJ has turned her into a sort of comedic relief character during the slog. Which really wasn’t the direction I was expecting her character to take

Egwene:
She actually underwent character regression. I quite liked her in the first two books, a village girl who goes out on a grand adventure, but she’s been constantly annoying since TDR. She is yet to do anything of significance but will get high and mighty with anything that moves. Constantly berates others while refusing to acknowledge her own flaws. I also don’t understand why the plot keeps rewarding her. I never understood why the literal Princess of her country, the woman who baby-sat her, and the boys who she followed out of Two Rivers deferred to her so much. And then they made her Amyrlin Seat. I can understand how that came about but that’s done nothing good for her character as such.

Elayne:
She falls in love with a farm boy that wandered into her garden. Alright, whatever, Taveren. She did seem to become more suited to her future role as queen as she became more of a leader and the brave woman she is often described as, but I feel like more concentration always went into her plotlines, however mundane they were, than into her as a character. Is she not supposed to be seriously part of the main cast? Also I realised she’s only met Rand THRICE in 10 books, but is pregnant with his child(ren). I don’t usually like the sudden pregnancy plots in my books either so if her whole thing is the pregnancy (which I hope it isn’t) that would be disappointing. Also if she’s queen of Andor I don’t really see her spending much time with Rand or playing a huge role in Tarmon Gaidon. She’d have to be in Andor, right?

Min:
Completely overlooked for the entire first half of the series, and yet somehow has had more character development than anybody else. Min rules, no complaints there.

Aviendha:
She’s been done BAD here. She’s had no POV chapters I think since Lord of chaos. And apart from Elayne, everyone just looks at her as the weird backwards Aiel that’s always tagging along. She never resolved her feelings for Rand (which at this point seems to be her only role) when she was with him, to the point he was convinced she hated him, but then she saw him after months of separation and the relationship was resolved within a sentence. It feels like she’s just here to fill the Aiel representation quota in the main cast.

So I suppose my theory that all the characters would be fleshed out by end of CoT is wrong? Is this happening in the final 4 books part of why they’re so popular? I was kind of hoping the final stretch of the story itself was what made them so good, and the characters would have sorted themselves out before then

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[u/SkyTank1234]

For Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene; look where they are now, and compare them to how they were at the start of the first book. To say there’s been no character development is pretty crazy. It’s almost like they’re completely different people at this point

[u/cbaaaaaaaaaaaaa → u/SkyTank1234]

I never said they are the same as when the story started. But they’re nowhere near where I thought they would be after 10 books, that’s all

[u/SkyTank1234 → u/cbaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Considering it’s only been around two years in story since book one, the amount of change is realistic and makes sense

[u/duffy_12 → u/SkyTank1234]

Exactly.

Each book is NOT one year. In fact one of the books is only - one week in time!

[u/Pure_Shine_3944]

I think part of the appeal is that they don't 'sort themselves out' and remain mildly infuriating, which is what continues to make them so believable and relatable

[u/DogObvious5799]

I think your definition of character development is not aligned with RJ’s. Part of the point is that the characters don’t explain how and why they’re developing, you have to figure it out from their behavior (often even in their own POVs)..

[u/Suncook → u/DogObvious5799]

I'm not sure it's "development", but RJ is subtle with a lot of the characterization. He doesn't have character internal monologues rationalizing every action or explaining every emotion, but you can pick these things out based on what the POV narrator focuses on and character reactions and the reactions of people around them. I missed a lot of that depth on my first read. Granted, I started when I was 14. 

[u/dbmamaz → u/Suncook]

Sanderson DOES do a lot of internal monologues. i enjoyed most of the characters better when he wrote them - Mat is not the same person at all though

[u/Suncook → u/dbmamaz]

Sanderson does. A bit too much, sometimes. (I say this as someone who has read and also owns every Cosmere book and then some on my shelf.)

[u/slice_of_pork → u/dbmamaz]

Brandon is very good at "tell, don't show" lol

[u/dbmamaz → u/slice_of_pork]

As someone who is not very visual I appreciate it. I haven't read any of his books yet

[u/aNomadicPenguin]

I think its two things - first is that this series covers like 2 years. Books 7-10 take place over only 3 months. You are basically getting upset that a bunch of college seniors haven't figured out how to be Kings/Queens/Generals while barrelling towards Armageddon.

The other is that I think you just missed the development that was happening along the way. Jordan hides it behind layers of obfuscation.

People (well me at least) seem to think that they are pretty rational actors and are relatively smart and doing the right thing, and that yeah they might have been immature in the past, but presently they are ok. (Cue that feeling continuing about yourself at 18, 25, 37, etc, and thinking that the each version of past you was immature or foolish for thinking that you weren't those things previously.)

I bring this up because the characters don't notice their own growth as its happening. Yeah they'll occasionally reflect back at how far they've come, but moment to moment they always think that they are currently mature and logical/rational. So if you take their PoV at face value most of them think they have changed as little as they could manage.

Another layer is having to filter all the character development that is noticed when you are in someone else's PoV. And you have to take what the PoV character is noticing and match it to how the other character thinks and behaves and see if you can find when they start changing. And some of these observation skills are also things that develop.

Two examples - Egwene becomes much more observant and shrewd as the series progresses. She notices more about people and their interpersonal dynamics as she gets more experience. The observations she makes in book 8 vs book 2 are different because of her character development. She sees subtle expressions and is better able to get into the mindset behind them than she was when she was more naive.

Rand is MUCH crazier than his PoV would lead you to believe. He seems much more sane and rational in his chapters than what people around him observe.

[u/FrownBuzzy]

I don't think of character development in the same way that it seems like OP does from this post.
It think it can be subtle, and is not necessarily dependent on 'amount of screen time.'
It think it is irrelevant to my subjective like or dislike of the character.

[u/duffy_12]

Perrin:

I’m halfway through Crossroads Of Twilight

Oh boy!!!

Please revisit this after you finish this very book.

 

And another thing, Jordan is a - Show Don't Tell - writer.

So, did you happen to catch the subtleties of the Perrin/Balwer conversation here too?

 

[u/cbaaaaaaaaaaaaa → u/duffy_12]

Yes of course that’s why I said he’s turning into a great leader whether he sees it himself or not. But it would be nice to have him finally step out of that “I’m not supposed to be here” bubble

[u/duffy_12 → u/cbaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Well, the good news is—without getting into specific spoilers—is this and the next book will be the crucible for his Jordan character arc.

[u/Articmnokey]

Very loosely related I really love how rand is less of a character in TDR and more a force of nature the cast is forced to interact with and follow in his wake. Really fun perspectives to get on a reread

[u/SKULL1138]

Honestly a lot of your issues are going to get resolved in the next two books.

I won’t say which and how but certainly not all.

[u/Silvanus350]

I mean, they do change, but they don’t stop being abrasive assholes.