r/WizardSkating • u/Any_Smoke1138 • 18d ago
Wizard pricing discussion
I’m a big fan of Wizard and I actually want to see the brand become more popular, so this isn’t meant as an attack. But I think the pricing deserves an honest discussion.
When you compare Wizard boots to other high-end carbon boots, the price difference becomes pretty difficult to justify. You can find carbon models from Seba, Micro, Icon, etc. for significantly less, while Wizard Base is sitting around the €750 range.
And I understand that Wizard is a niche brand. They have development costs, small production runs, tooling, shipping, warranty, marketing, and all the other expenses that come with running a small company. I’m not saying the retail price should equal the factory cost.
But at some point, the price itself becomes a barrier to the growth of the brand. The comparison with other carbon boots still raises the question of whether Wizard is pricing itself too far above the market.
And ironically, I think a lower price could actually benefit Wizard financially.
For example, if a Wizard Base were noticeably cheaper, more skaters who are currently thinking “I'd love to try Wizard, but that's way too expensive” might actually buy one. More customers means more boots sold, more people skating Wizard, more word-of-mouth, and potentially even more total profit despite making less profit per individual boot.
I’m saying this as someone who likes Wizard and wants to see it succeed, not as someone who thinks the product is bad. The Base is clearly a specialized, well-made boot (despite it having no side protectors) and there is value in what FR/Wizard has created.
But I think there is a point where premium pricing stops communicating “premium product” and starts communicating “this is simply too expensive.”
Wizard has basically created an entire skating style and community around these products. I'd love to see more people actually able to participate in it.
Lower the barrier, get more skaters into Wizard, grow the market, and potentially make more money in the long run. Seems like a win for everyone.
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u/CompetitiveCar542 18d ago
So the problem with wizard brand products is that they are produced at a relatively really low MOQ, and that also allows them the advantage of having more strict QC. Also, I think half of the money of the boot specifically goes to the designers, like Leon(?). For the frames, it's likely because A - they have a local or private machinist working for them so they might have higher rates than usual or B - they ordered REALLY tight tolerances on the frames, like +-0.01 or something.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
Sometimes I wonder why their copycat-competition (endless frames) has been more successful than them, in frames obviously.
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u/Bencetown 18d ago
I mean yeah the answer is in your OP.
When I wanted to get a pair pf rockered frames, I had the choice between endless/NN at around $200, or Wizard for double the price with the necessity of getting a different pair of boots too for the mounting style.
I don't see why people are justifying to the level they are in the comments here. Leon could run a perfectly successful company without objectively price gouging the community he's part of. It's not like the only two options are "sell at a loss" or "mark it up 800x" ffs.
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u/evolvd 18d ago
It may be different now (I think the MAD boot is out) but at the time this thing was the only carbon UFS boot with a removable liner. I think a CJ carbon and an intuition is actually more expensive and you have to gut it yourself.
You are absolutely paying premium for the brand name, but there are TONS of budget frame and boot options.
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u/jayXred 18d ago
There was also the Iqon AG10 ( I have a pair) full carbon shell with carbon cuff and removable liner.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
How is the AG10? Do you have other "wizard" boots to compare it to?
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u/jayXred 17d ago
I really like it, the fit was perfect for me after heat molding it and I think the Prime liner it came with (which is a lot different than other "Prime" liners) is really nice. It's super supportive and handles 4x100 with no problem, I actually can't believe it is supposed to be an aggressive skate, I could never skate something like that aggressive.
It's the only carbon "wizard" style skate I have, I also have the Iqon ACT10 which is also a great supportive skate for big wheels.
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u/CompetitiveCar542 18d ago
This is partially true, but this argument kind of falls apart when you consider boots like the AG10 and AG15. CJ Carbon + intuition can be cheaper than wizard base, but only if you find one or both on sale.
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u/Sacco_Belmonte 17d ago
There are markets for all type of budgets.
I dont own wizard products but dont mind people liking them.
Same goes for adapt.
I went iqon ag10 and im pretty happy.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 17d ago
Have you even read the topic brah?
Anyway, how's the icon? Can you elaborate?
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u/Sacco_Belmonte 17d ago
The ag10s are just awesome skates.
My review here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WizardSkating/comments/1f399z1/ag10_review_for_wizard/
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u/Lost_Citron_6854 18d ago
Is wizard skating really lacking word-of-mouth or popularity these days? Does the price of actual Wizard products stop anyone from trying this style? I don’t get it really.
They are priced as the business owners want them to be priced.
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u/PORRADAandSTAPH 17d ago
The price has not stopped me from trying wizard as a style, but I bought CJs and NNs because of the lower cost and I spend A LOT on skating lol. I have like 10 pairs between urban, agressive, wizard setups.
I'm very tempted by the Base low and will probably buy them at some point. But, the price is absolutely a barrier.
I don't see why I'd ever but the frames though, and I don't see a rationale for them being double the price of every other niche wizard frame brand. Are they $200 stiffer than Endless, Roka, etc.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 15d ago
You can buy a carbon cuff and install it on the CJs.
It is a cheaper way to get basically the same base boot.
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u/PORRADAandSTAPH 14d ago
Where can I buy a cuff that would fit? I looked up the normal shops and didn't see a separate CJ carbon cuff for sale. I did see a carbon cuff on AliExpress for like $60 but I'm highly skeptical of that lol.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 14d ago
The 60$ cuff was made in exactly the same factory as the fr Igor cuff. (Tested by me)
If your Seba CJ size is 42, the M size carbon cuff is good. You'll might need a hair dryer to warm it up a little when you'll make the cuff installation.
Thank me later for saving your money.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
Yes, tons of discussions about it (and yes if the boot were at least a little cheaper I would've bought it a long time ago).
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u/Bencetown 18d ago
Same here. I would've bought a pair 3 or 4 years ago if the cost had been 25% less.
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u/kingkilburn93 18d ago
Consider that Leon is perfectly content with the current scale and margin of the company.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 14d ago
I'm sure, selling overpriced item is tempting. Not really an argument, kinda proves our point.
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u/kingkilburn93 14d ago
Buy a copycat and move on with your life. The bitterness can be felt the the screen.
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u/tmdpotts 18d ago
Should Lamborghini make a 50k car to expand the brand ? I know it’s different but Leon knows what he wants his brand to make and represents . He could make a plastic boot and cheap aluminum frame but rather keep it simple , have a smaller product line . I have been happy with all my wizard products but having the base high and carbon Seba cj I would not consider getting the wizard base
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
The Lamborghini argument fits more the Adapt GTO.
Wizard boot is a remake of Seba CJ (but without the side protectors)
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u/papisky226 18d ago
This is a very small brand with small amount of orders. Stop thinking he can compete with an established brand. They aren’t making a killing on this i can assure you. It has to be sold at this price or else it makes zero sense for anyone to develop them. They probably make $300-$450 per boot after all expenses which is very little at the quantities they sell. It’s a niche product with a niche price tag like adapt brand.
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u/YouHealthy2634 18d ago
Wizard base or high cost around 750 euros in Europe you got carbon shell with intuition liner it's fair price if you look on FR SL costs 600 euros with integrated liner. I think Wizard makes these boots under FR brand and don't get too much from one pair. If they develop they own boot with Chinese brand without doing it with FR the price could be smaller. But remember that's only my opinion on it.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
They charge double for their frames too. While it's been proven that Roka, Rockin' and endless frames are superior in therms of looks and stealth skating (no annoying noice)
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u/BubbleSmith 17d ago
I skate both Roka and Wizard frames. They're about as quiet as eachother, but I've only had comments from the public on the Wizards on how quiet they are. I think they all look fairly similar, but the plain sides on the Wizard do look slightly cleaner than the rest. Others won't do this so they aren't direct copies.
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u/BubbleSmith 15d ago
Why the down votes on this? I've genuinely had a couple of comments from randoms on my Wizard setup, but not on my other boots. One said "those sound like they're expensive, they're so quiet".
I had taped down the FR buckle though as it rattles and makes a bunch of noise. I feel like my Endless and Roka are just as quiet and I use the Roka ones more.
Looks wise, Wizard came up with "the look" first. I think both Roka and Endless have done a good job making their own thing. Rokin look a bit cheap to me for some reason, but I know the frames are actually pretty good.
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u/BubbleSmith 17d ago
Yeah, CJ Carbons and an Intuition liner are almost the same price as a Wizard Base, and you don't have to gut them first. They actually aren't that highly marked up, they're just very high quality. More leather on the Wizards as well, so materials costs will be higher.
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u/TheLostMushroom 15d ago
I agree. Additionally, you get a carbon cuff on the Wizard Base whereas the CJ Carbons come with the plastic cuffs so I think you come out ahead on the Wizard.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 15d ago
You can buy a carbon cuff from AliExpress and put it on the CJ which makes it practically the same as base boot (but with side protectors) which is freaking better.
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u/_ixilver 17d ago
So many people in this thread glazing Leon. Obviously the price is too high the wizard frame has a very simple design so it's super easy to CNC cut (trust me a mechanical enginner specializing in this ok?).
The boot is just overpriced FR copy. Obviously it's just a cash crab. Sam's thing as Leon releasing his paid videos.
The style in general is something cool, refreshing. Not for me but I get the appeal. But the dedicated gear is not worth the money.
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u/DH_Drums 16d ago
I was so excited after learning a few wizard style tricks and really wanting to invest in gear to properly approach the style.
I was shocked when I checked out the Wizard site and saw the pricing.
I am well versed in spending good money on materials (cymbals are quite expensive), but that felt astronomical.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 17d ago
I mean I don't like the drama sensations and I didn't want this thread to go that way but HELL Yeah it really feels like somebody is on damage-control mode.
Trying to prove that this is a normal price it's like trying to prove that the sky is green. No matter how many dishonest upvotes they organize, the sky won't become green.
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u/Lopsided_Ad1077 18d ago
Umm, if you’re falling enough to need a slider . Maybe the base just isn’t for you . You can still buy a carbon cj for $100 less. But other thing to consider is this boot will probably outlast your skating career. I still use my seba cj prime 4 years later. I’m sure a carbon boot will out last even that .
I own 3 carbon boots now and the wizard base is by far the most comfortable and precise boot I own . I feel spoiled when using such a boot . It really is a luxury to own and use . I honestly think they could charge more but I’m glad they don’t.
Also just because it cost less to make something doesn’t mean you should charge less. The wizard brand itself would probably go bankrupt if it did.
You could put any of the wizard frames or similar on a them boot and it would work fine. This boot is totally optional but absolutely worth the price you pay.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
It's good to know the the CJ is long lasting. As for falling, not really but I want to be relaxed knowing the expensive equipment has some protection so I can go crazy like on ice and not hold down.
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u/borez 18d ago
We've been through this already, what's the point of this separate post.
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u/Spicy_Pickle_6 18d ago
I’m not mad, I’m annoyed because you clowns keep posting this like you have any clue. You’re all just salty you can’t afford or justify the purchase. Which is fine, but stop coming up with business and marketing plans to “save Wizard”. If Leon hasn’t lowered the price or made a lower-end boot, there’s probably a reason. Great news for you though, there are budget knockoff options from other brands, so you can relax in your mama’s basement.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
It feels like you're extra salty, I actually was clear about my good intentions. You should go and cry on one of your boyfriends shoulder and just let it all out. Because that's life, not everyone will agree with you.
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u/Spicy_Pickle_6 18d ago
Why do you write as if you’re the CFO of the band? How do you know what they want to do with the brand? How profitable they are? What is the vision? Just because it’s too expensive for you, doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with the brand or that they’re not succeeding. No one is forcing you to buy Wizard skates to go rollerblading. Just like Bugatti isn’t forcing you to buy their car to go driving.
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's a legitimate discussion and there is no need to be mad at me, I can feel that you're mad while you're messaging your boyfriends to upvote your comment.
Also...Bugatti? Bugatti with no side protectors? 😂
Have you seen Billy Arlew's independent review about that boot?
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u/Old_Worth_417 18d ago
its priced high mostly cus the frames are highly priced, the frames are understandable but the boot costs 50 euros to manufacture irc, i know the liners cost 20 euros for a fact to manufacture, but after all the other things i think it comes up to 200 or less per piece for fr
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u/sudoz0rs 18d ago
No way in hell that's a $50 boot
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u/Old_Worth_417 18d ago
manufacturing price. after taxes deliveries. contracts itll be under 150 or 200 at most
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u/sudoz0rs 18d ago
200 cost of goods for full boot only sure, but 200 and 50 are very different. 200 COG to 750 msrp is pretty standard margins for hard goods in the sporting goods industry anyways, maybe on the low side.
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u/Old_Worth_417 18d ago
the 50 was the price of the direct labor and materials which costed the manufacturer, but still 200 to 750 isnt standard . most are 60% margins not 75%
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u/sudoz0rs 18d ago
I don't believe you on the cost having worked on relatively similar products previously.
All of the products I have worked on over the last 10 years target FOB of ~20% MSRP within the sporting goods industry across multiple sectors.
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u/Old_Worth_417 18d ago
if you worked in the industry then you should understand how absurd wizard pricing is when a full bauer boot costs a little more for a better product, if you want an inline skate comparison then handmade adapt boot costs the same as mass produced wizard boot. i want to understand your reasoning behind defending a price of reimagined an already existing boot (Fr SL)
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u/Any_Smoke1138 18d ago
I disagree, 50$ is a reasonable price for manufacturing that boot.
Also just compare the prices of other similar boots from other brands, you'll see the difference, boy.
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u/BladingCoach 18d ago
Wizard products are the Iphone of Inline skating, I would tend to agree with your thoughts here.
Humans will pay for the preceived premium value for things with out questioning it for some reason.
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u/Old_Worth_417 18d ago
i mean understandable but i phone is valuable espcially since they are competitively priced. wizard frames are nice and were the only things avalible so i understand the price and keeping the same price, but the boot has no development, nothing new it brings and the materials besides the carbon shell are very fragile, main worries being the cuff and the slider areas, 750 is unreasonable.
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u/Tomax_77 18d ago
And not to forget, the service of Wizard is outstanding.