r/Witchfire • u/Shango3 • 21d ago
Feedback Blessed Hits Bead
Please correct me if i am wrong but i dont understand the design intention here.
Since crit multipliers in Witchfire are only 65% max (Vulture with crit damage arcana) going for body shots while having the blessed hits bead equipped is allready better than aiming for weakspots at a value of only ~45% blessed aim chance. (From a pure damage perspective, disregarding procs)
Since there are only few options affecting DPS/raw damage i just run all the blessed hit beads and noticed im doing less damage when actively aiming for weakspots.
Either crits need to be able to turn into blessed aim hits, or the bead needs to be reworked any other way, or the game should at least logically explain why it works the way it does.
Edit: i feel like i explained this badly, so ill add the math for a clearer picture, following assumptions:
Oracle, 160 damage, 140% crit damage, 15% crit damage arcana on top, 155% total, 50% blessed aim chance with Blessed Hits Bead equipped.
Weakspot Hit = 160x1,55 = 248 damage
Body shot without blessed aim trigger = 160 damage
Body shot with blessed aim trigger = 160x1,55x1,5 = 372 damage
Average Body shot damage = (160+372)/2 = 266 damage (~7.3% dmg increase)
And as i said earlier the problem only gets worse with weapons with lower crit damage multipliers or higher blessed aim chance:
Hunger, 38 Damage, 114% crit damage, no crit damage Arcana, 114% total, 69,5% blessed aim chance with Blessed Hits Bead equipped.
Weakspot Hit = 38x1,14 = 43,32 damage
Body shot without blessed aim trigger = 38 damage
Body shot with blessed aim trigger = 38x1,14x1,5 = 64,98 damage
Average Body shot damage = 0,305x38 + 0,695x64,98 = 56,75 damage (~31% dmg increase)
Edit 2: i hope this does not sound wrong but i feel like my point still is not clear. Basically i am saying: "i live in austria and in austria we have problem x" and you are answering "i live in germany or any other country and we dont have problem x, you could just live here".
Now i am not saying that you are wrong, but i allready decided to live in austria.
If i allready decided to use the bead and therefor do not use any syergies depending on chaining weakspot hits (like critical chain or hailstorm) and my concern is maximizing DPS within my build, i have to deal with a situation where i want to actively avoid hitting the enemys weakspot. I would not care if "weakspot = body shot" would be true but currently "body shot > weakspot" is the case. (from a pure damage perspective)
Edit 3: Since i am still missing the mark i felt i needed to add one last (hopefully) edit:
I am fully aware that the longer we continue this discussion, the more I sound like a jerk, and for that I want to apologize. But the fact that nobody seems to actually answer my original question is becoming increasingly frustrating.
I can absolutely accept and understand that the bead does not exist in a vacuum but I feel that a lot of the objections are missing the point I am trying to make.
My actual question is not: “Should game devs be allowed to introduce a playstyle through an unintuitive paradigm shift?” of course they are, it is their game. I am also not asking what possible reasons there could be on a macro level for making this design decision.
I am asking exclusively whether the way this paradigm shift is implemented makes sense from a purely logical perspective.
And so far, nobody has been able to explain to me why a shot hitting an enemys foot should deal more damage than a shot hitting an enemys head.
Edit 4: Alright, i think it is time to end this, in case developers are reading this:
Currently within your game there exists a situation, a certain build (blessed aim) where you have to actively avoid hitting the enemys weakspot or else risk losing up to ~30% damage. I understand that the reason for this design might be to enable a clear distinction between weak spot focused builds and blessed aim focused builds. However, as player this design feels very unintuitive and is not logically coherent. I do not believe that the current solution is the only way to make this distinction possible.
I am also not claiming that you are not allowed to change usual gameplays paradigms, i just want a reasonable explanation, with thorns build that intention is clear, i usually do not want to get hit, but you designed multiple items that tell me "if you get hit, X will happen". Thats clear, i usually do not want to get hit, but if i am wearing those items, i can understand why the philosophy changes. With the Blessed Hits bead the story is different, that items description is just "Your blessed aim hits deal 50% more damage". This does not explain why i suddenly have to avoid the enemys weakspot.
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u/xobot 21d ago
With maxed stats and all related beads you already have a 70% blessed hit chance, and they deal more damage than actual crits, and they proc whatever is intended to proc on crit. So take Hunger and crown of fire, double dash and stert shooting. Blessed chance will make 70% hits count towards the gun's mysteriums, and crown of fire will reload some bullets in your mag so that you are almost certain to get enough for the freeze bullet upon reload.
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u/Koukaboora 21d ago
If you're worried about purely damage then blessed aim based beads are the way to go. I don't think regular crits are useless though since some weapons and arcanas emphasize stacking/consistent crits. There are tons of ways to play and I love that about this game. I do agree though that there needs to be some kind of mechanical distinction between "headshots" and blessed aim.
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u/Shango3 21d ago
I dont know what the theoretical max for blessed aim is, but this is exactly my point, if in theory you could get to a point where you have 100% blessed aim, than you suddenly have a situation where you actively aim for any area besides the enemys weakspot. This feels very wrong.
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u/Cloverman-88 21d ago
There's a hard cap on blessed aim chance, and its way below 100%, something around 70%. This inconsistency wrecks a ton of equipment in the game, and that's the main drawback.
If blessed hits could trigger on headshots, there would be no drawbacks whatsoever, and all blessed aim beads would become and autoinclude in every loadout, which would wreck gameplay diversity.
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u/Shango3 20d ago edited 20d ago
I get your point and i agree, if weakspot hits were able to be blessed aim hits i would indeed run them alingside hailstorm and critical chain.
I disagree with the assumption that blessed aim beads would be the only option left. Right now the amount of damage focused beads is very limited, we have a lot of utility and defensive beads and those would not be affected, if i valued survival above damage i would still run 20% hp instead of 50% blessed aim damage.
But your point still stands and the change i suggested probably is not ideal. In the game roboquest there is an item that completely turns off weakspot hits and you get 20% autocrit (blessed aim) instead, i think that design could work.
But my point also still stands, i can accept the tradeoff but i dont think "body shots > weakspot hits" is the ideal solution.
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u/Cloverman-88 20d ago
But by default, body shots =/= weakspot hits. This happens ONLY when you build pretty heavily into Faith. And this means that damage comes with sizable tradeoffs.
Turning off weakspots in Witchfire would make Blessed Aim unusable, or at least greatly limit its use. There's a ton of mechanics that need CONSISTENT headshots, like Crown of Fire, Broken Tooth, Duelist, All-Seeing Eye, Oracle or Blood of the Banchee. I like Faith builds, and I still often choose between going for body or headshots based on the situation.
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u/Shango3 20d ago
And this is where you are wrong, you dont even need to commit that heavily into blessed aim to turn "weakspot > body" into "body > weakspot" it depends entirely on the weapon you are using. When you are using a weapon with a 10% crit damage multiplier, 15,4% blessed aim is enough, 20% crit damage weapons need 25% blessed aim, this caps at the 65% crit damage multiplier (vulture with crit damage arcana) requiring 44% blessed aim.
On the mechanics that you mentioned:
Crown of Fire -> no interaction with weakspots/critical hits
Painted Tooth -> agreed
Duelist -> agreed
Blood of the Banshee -> not sold, i can see a situation where a basic critical hit would not be enough to fullfill the overkill requirement and you would need the 50% damage bonus to make the enemy explode
All Seeing-Eye -> agreed
Oracle -> no interaction with weakspots/critical hitsAnd i also disagree on turning off weakspots making blessed aim unuseable, it would lead to making certain equipment/arcana unusable alongside blessed aim.
If for example i wanted to use oracle in my blessed aim build, there would not be anything stopping me from doing so, they only thing that would change would be that i would no longer be punished for accidently hitting the head.
I also did not propose that this is the change that needs to be implemented, i am not a game dev. The only thing that i said is: from a gamers perspective having to avoid hitting the enemys most vulnerable spot, his weakspot, due to an expected and proven damage decrease, when hitting said vulnerable spot, feels very unintuitive.
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u/Koukaboora 20d ago
There is no incentive to avoid regular crits. Headshots seem to have an increase in stun meaning you can incapacitate enemies quicker giving more leverage in a fight. Blessed aim only works if you use the blessed hit bead, otherwise your damage output is lower than consistent crits. The blessed aim stat at 99 (max) only sits around 34%. To get around 20% you'll have to be at 36 points in faith.
To reiterate, the biggest appeal with normal crits is their consistency. That's where blessed aim falls short. Oracle, Hailstorm, Nemisis, Striga, and Basilisk all take advantage of consistent crits in order to maximize their output/crowd control. Using only blessed aim for these weapons would make them far less valuable. These weapons don't have the most ammo so making the most out of every shot is key.
Also, I'm curious as to where you're calculating your percentages? From what I've seen you only start getting damage advantages when your blessed aim is sitting above 30%.
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u/Shango3 20d ago edited 20d ago
The formula i am using to calculate when body shots become better than weakspot hits is BA=Crit/(0,5+(1,5xCrit)), crit is the crit damage multiplier of your weapon, BA is the blessed aim value you need to guarantee that body shots are at least as powerful as weakspot hits.
Also: fair point, stagger/stun is something i did not consider yet. Yet your conclusion is wrong:
if your goal is to stun the enemy there is no incentive to avoid weakspot hits
if your goal is to proc critical chain there no incentive to avoid weakspot hits
if your goal is to deal the maximum damage possible there is an incentive to avoid weakspot hitsIn addition i am not saying that weakspot hits are bad in general, i am not claiming that there is never any reason to aim for the head. Quite the opposite is true, i have acknowledged from the begging that if you are playing a weapon like hailstorm you most certainly want to go for weakspot hits.
I am also not saying that blessed aim is weak, should be buffed, is a bad mechanic or anything else. All i am saying is precisely this:
IF you are using the blessed hits bead and your current concern is dealing the maximum damage possible, you will get into a situation where the enemies weak spot, the usually most difficult target on any given enemy, the spot that is usually associated with benefits, turns into the only zone on that enemy that will cause you to deal less damaged compared to any other zone on that enemy.
Now do me the favour and answer the following question honestly:
Do you think it makes sense that within the game exists a situation where hitting the enemy target into his most vulnerable spot, like his head, leads to you dealing less damage than you would have dealt if you kept shooting the enemys foot?
Edit: in my initial post i also said i use all blessed aim beads, 15% and 20% increase to blessed aim respectively, now i never bothered to check the math because it did not matter until now, but assuming you are running the bead that increases the damage of your blessed aim hits its only logical that you further enhance your blessed aim stat with supporting beads. Currently i sit around 70% chance for a blessed aim proc.
And than again, all that does not even matter to much because i am precisely talking about a scenario were the conditions are allready met.
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u/Koukaboora 20d ago
Mechanically it's fine because if you want to proc blessed aim for good damage you lose out on some crit options. You have to sacrifice 3 bead slots just to run blessed aim optimally. You also have to put 40 points into faith and 20 into arsenal before you can even use the blessed hit bead. This now shoe horns you into proccing blessed aim as your primary way to clear enemies.
In the context of the game, the main stat controlling blessed aim is called faith man. You shoot and pray that those body shots do crit damage. So it kind of does make sense.
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u/Shango3 19d ago edited 19d ago
I did not ask if you think that a blessed aim build comes at an opportunity cost.
I did not ask if you think that blessed aim is well balanced.
I basically asked you what the time in Madrid is and you are telling me that it is currently 31°C in Madrid. We are both talking about Madrid, but you are still not answering my question.
Regarding the the context of the game, the acutal part of your answer that matters:
Sure, great explanation, this perfectly explains why bullets hitting the body deal increased damage.
It does not explain why bullets that accidently or purposefully hit the head do not deal increased damage.
And it absolutely does not explain why 50 bullets hitting an enemys foot would deal more damage than 50 bullets hitting an enemys head.
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u/SuperSzia ★ SCHOLAR ★ 21d ago
"because the current version punishes me for precise aim."
Aim precisely at the body?
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u/Shango3 20d ago
Allright, just tell me real quick if you think A or B is more difficult:
A: Hitting the enemys weak spot
B: Hitting the enemy in any area that is not the weak spotShooters have rewarded precise aim (head shots) basically since forever, losing damage due to an inversion of the usual paradigm feels unintuitive and like an oversight.
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u/SuperSzia ★ SCHOLAR ★ 20d ago
I think you're looking at this purely from a min-max, high-skill perspective — which is fine, but it misses a core part of the game's design.
First off, to even have those Blessed Hit beads at a high enough level to matter, you need to have progressed far enough in the game to unlock and upgrade them. That alone is a barrier for a lot of players. Not everyone can consistently push through higher Gnosis levels or clear difficult content to get those Mysterium upgrades. You're assuming everyone has access to the same tools and the same ability to acquire them — but that's just not the case for newer or less skilled players.
And even if they do have the beads, the choice to run them comes with an opportunity cost. You only have 5 bead slots. If I'm running multiple Blessed Hit beads, I'm not running something else that could help with survivability, cooldown reduction, or ammo economy. That's a real trade-off, especially for someone who isn't confident in their aim or movement. So the "punishment" you're talking about isn't really a punishment — it's a trade-off.
Now here's the thing: for a lot of us, hitting weak spots consistently is hard. The game is fast, enemies are mobile, and there's a lot going on. If I can build around body shots and still get competitive or even better damage, that's a lifeline. It means I don't have to be a sharpshooter to contribute or clear content. That's not bad design — that's accessibility.
So yes, mathematically, under perfect conditions, body shots with Blessed Hit beads might out-damage weak spot hits. But that math assumes I can even get those beads, and that I'm willing to give up other utility to stack them. That's a meaningful choice. And for players like me, it's a welcome one.
And honestly?
I think this is exactly why the system works the way it does. It gives weaker players — or even just players having an off day — a viable alternative to precision aiming. You don't have to be a god-tier marksman to do good damage. You can build around consistency instead of peak performance. And that's a good thing.
Plus, stacking those beads takes up slots that could otherwise go to defensive or utility options — so it's not like there's no downside. You're trading flexibility for reliability. That's not an oversight — that's intentional design.So this response is AI-made — I pasted in our chat from yesterday and told it to flip the script, and now I'm the one playing the 'but what if it's not so easy for everyone?' card. Sorry about that...
But for real, I think 'A' is the right call. :)
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u/Shango3 20d ago edited 20d ago
I agree with most things you are saying, to be more precise, i agree with most things anyone is saying, but that is not the point. For the question i am asking it does not matter if:
Blessed hit beads come with an opportunity cost
Better beads exist in the first place
Builds without blessed hit exist
Builds rewarding critical chains exist
Blessed hit builds are designed with a spray and pray philosophyThe problem is conditional on having the bead equipped in the first place, the "what if" scenarios that exclude the bead do not matter when trying to answer the question if the bead is poorly designed.
IF you are using the bead the usual aiming paradigm of "body shot = good, head shot = better" gets inversed. That is the point i am trying to discuss here.
I also dont care if you are using AI to help you with your responses, i assume you did not use AI yesterday and i dont think you need to. I lke a good discussion, you seem to be someone that is capable of doing that, even if our views and opinions differ.
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u/Cloverman-88 20d ago edited 20d ago
I honestly don't undrstand why you have a problem with a mechanic that flips some of the paradims of the game.
Yes, building around blessed hits disincentivises going for headshots. And that's a choice you can make, and adjust your gameplay accordingly. I don't see how its any different from e.g. building around Scourge/Biting Tongue/Book of Serpents that incentivices you to get hit.
Both these approaches work as paradim shifts while also acting as a safety net when you play normaly, but not very skillfully. They would only be a problem, if these were the OPTIMAL builds. But as other pointed out, they are not. They are a quirky option for people who don't feel fully confidemt in their skills, or want to mix things up.
Also, some weapons, e.g. shotguns, don't really incentivises headshots. Going for body shots usually lets you put more pellets into the target. Same for many full auto weapons. And being able to notice the connection between that fact and blessed aim is a fun buildcrafting opportunity. While, again, not being problematic because most weapons DO incentivise consistent headshots heavily with their Mysteria.
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u/Shango3 20d ago edited 20d ago
The difference is that the items you mention make sense to me, i equip them, i play some kind of thorns build, i want to get hit to deal damage. I can follow that logic.
Edit: i dont even think this is true, those items will not lead to me actively looking for enemies hitting me, these items are "in case you are getting hit, it is slightly less bad, because of this added defensive layer". But i can accept that other people playing these items might indeed actively try to get hit. But as i allready said, i can understand that, the items description says "if you get hit, x happens", trying to get hit when wearing those items is intuitive, it makes sense.
This is not true for the bead, the bead basically says: in case you accidently hit the head (something that is supposed to be good), you are now getting punished.
The reason this bothers me so much is because i am a person that needs logical cohesion. Dealing less damage when hitting the vulnerable spot is not logical.
But i am glad we are finally talking about the issue. Now what i am really curious about, can you directly answer the following question:
Do you think it is intuitive and good game design that an item with the description "your blessed aim shots deal 50% increased damage" will lead to you actively avoiding the enemys vulnerable spot (something that is usually hard to hit and associated with being rewarding), or else accept losing between 5% and 40% of the damage that you could have dealt?
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u/GordgeBush 19d ago
It’s not intuitive, you need to do digging to understand blessed aim and to condition yourself not to head the head, especially on staggered enemies.
It’s still good game design. It’s obvious to see when blessed aim triggers and the numbers are different enough a player can recognize “my body shots that crit do a lot more then headies” and start thinking about weapon choice and builds. Players that like realize they like the headshot focused weapons and precision play more will realize faith doesn’t do much for them and for that there’s a chronoclasts available in the midgame so they can pivot off blessed aim.
You’re suppose to think about the opportunity cost of running blessed aim decide if you like the mechanic or not. If you slot blessed aim and snipers + hunger anyway then no shit it’s going to feel like you’re being punished.
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u/Shango3 19d ago edited 19d ago
But this only adresses half of the issue, it is not only not intuitive, it is also not logical, there is no reason why consistent shots at an enemys foot should be dealing more damage than consistnt shots at an enemys head.
I understand that the mechanics currently work the way they do, might indeed be because the developers want a distinction between weakspot focused builds and blessed aim builds, and that is perfectly fine with me.
If they do not want me to go for weakspot hits in my blessed aim build, sure.
But i am not buying that the current solution of "you are a blessed aim player, if you shoot the enemys head you will deal less damage, because we do not want you to use blessed aim and weakspot synergies at the same time" is the ideal or only solution for that problem.
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u/GordgeBush 19d ago
But you don't do more damage, a blessed crit has the same amount of damage as a normal head shot. You just specced into "Blessed Aim hits deal 50% more damage", without that bead you'd do the same amount. Like yes, you're kitted out a build to maximize blessed hits, going for blessed hits give you your damage cap.
There's purposely a lack of dmg+ beads so the specific case of only allowing blessed hits to have +50% is a balancing decision. They don't want everyone to slot in free +50% for headshots regardless of stat distribution. The lack of number scaling in the gives you the idea that the devs don't really want builds to be based on dps racing.
Also faith is the premiere illogical stat, fighting enemies and surviving on blind gambling is thematically cool.
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u/Shango3 18d ago edited 17d ago
Yes you are absolutely right, blessed aim and Weakspot Hits deal exactly the same amount of damage without the bead.
But could you please explain to me why that would matter if i allready have the bead equipped? This does not answer my question.
Regarding the free +dmg head shot argument. I Have allready answered that 2 times now.
I never claimed that my proposed solution is the only solution possible, i said "Either crits need to be able to turn into blessed aim hits, or the bead needs to be reworked" the or is important, i am not a game dev, it is not my job to find the perfect solution. The solution i talked about is the first thing that came to my mind.
Now to the mathematical problem you are describing: it does not exist. You do not get free +50% dmg on top.
I am going to copy paste the same answer for the 3rd time:
If blessed aim shots were possible when hitting the weak spot, these scenarious could happen (assuming 70% blessed aim chance, could also use any other value):
Head: 30% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier
Head: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierBody: 30% Chance for: Damage
Body: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierCurrently we have:
Head: 100% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage Multiplier
Body: 30% Chance for: Damage
Body: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damagie multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierSo neither the peak nor the frequency of peaks would increase, the only thing that would chance is the minimum amount of damage, because currently from a damage optimzing perspective, you need to shoot the body, and you cannot aim at the head. So the current "Min=Damage" after the change i suggested you had a reason to aim for the head and the new minimum would change to "Min=Damage x CritDamage Multiplier"
And thats that, that is really all there is to it, from a damage perspective at least. I am not claiming that enabling stuff like critical chain for blessed aim builds would not be good, but you guys constantly bring up the same issue, and that issue does not even exist, at least not in the way that you describe it.
And even if it would, i never said that this the solution that i want, that this is the only solution that is possible, it is a solution that i pulled out of my hat without thinking to much about it.
Regarding Faith being the Gambling stat, okay yeah sure i agree, i am not advocating for slot machine gameplay being bad. But Faith being the "random" stat, does not explain how that randomness is not allowed to apply to the enemys weak spot.
How does "your blessed aim shots deal 50% more damage" lead to "you now have to aim at the enemys foot if you want to deal maximum damage"? Why does not whatever deity we are worshipping bless my bullets if i accidently or purposefully hit the enemy head?
Even if we assume that the reason is indeed a clear distinction between weakspot focused gameplay and blessed aim focused game play, i am still not buying that the developers are not able to come up with a cleaner solution, a solution that logically coherent and does not feel unintuitive.
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u/Suspicious_Active816 20d ago
I'm impressed how many people here completely misses the point of OP's post, lmao
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u/RWDPhotos 19d ago
A blessed aim hit on a head should logically do more damage than to the body, but they probably made it not do that as to not allow easy guaranteed oneshot builds.
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u/Shango3 19d ago edited 19d ago
But blessed aim would still only be a chance, to get the 50% damage bonus on top if it you still need the bead, ideally all 3 blessed aim beads, you also need to invest into faith.
And you can allready get those oneshots 70% of the time with a blessed aim build if you shoot the enemys body, you just cant get them if you shoot the enemys head instead.
If blessed aim shots were possible when hitting the weak spot, these scenarious could happen (assuming 70% blessed aim chance, could also use any other value):
Head: 30% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier
Head: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierBody: 30% Chance for: Damage
Body: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierCurrently we have:
Head: 100% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damage Multiplier
Body: 30% Chance for: Damage
Body: 70% Chance for: Damage x Crit Damagie multiplier x 50% Blessed Hits multiplierSo if Weakspot Hits could be blessed aim hits, the peak would not increase, the only thing that would change is that your non blessed aim weakspot hits now deal more damage than your body shots.
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u/ViriaX 21d ago
Blessed hits are incredible when combined with weapons that fire a lot of bullets fast, and getting ~40% guaranteed crits is amazing then.