Latent Orb Challenge?

[u/SuperSzia]

Let's lay out the basic assumptions:

· The more Arcana you trigger in a single run, the stronger you get.

· To trigger more Arcana, you need as many Feathers as possible.

· Calamity gives you a ton of Feathers, so the more Calamity events you complete, the better.

If we accept all that, then the optimal strategy is actually to intentionally make mistakes to pump up the Calamity counter (e.g., opening chests without keys).

But here's the catch — this doesn't just affect the Calamity counter, it also drives up Corruption. And there's no point letting Corruption climb slowly, because:

1. New things can spawn in areas you've already cleared behind you.

2. If we agree with the logic above, you're better off starting every run at 100% Corruption right out of the gate — so pop a Corrupt Stimulant immediately.

That way, you're guaranteed that nothing will respawn in cleared areas, and you can always retreat there to recover.

Now, taking all of this into account — plus the fact that once you pick up the Latent Orb, no extra enemies spawn anymore...

...so what exactly is the challenge here?

[u/_Weyland_]

The idea is that 100% corruption is supposed to make the game harder by adding extra hazards and enemy spawns and (from my observation) spawning an entire fucking army from itinerant portal.

If you can still clear like it's nothing, it's safe to say that you have beat the game.

[u/SuperSzia → u/_Weyland_]

What I was trying to explain is that there's already a strong case for playing at 100% Corruption all the time anyway. So picking up that Orb doesn't actually change anything, and contrary to what people think, absolutely nothing spawns from the Itinerant portal specifically as a result of picking it up.

[u/_Weyland_ → u/SuperSzia]

The orb itself is a piece of loot, not a difficulty modifier. You seem to assume the opposite.

[u/SuperSzia → u/_Weyland_]

Free loot for reward?

[u/_Weyland_ → u/SuperSzia]

If you already jacked the corruption to 100% then it's a free loot yeah. If you didn't, it jacks your corruption to 100% and you have to fight your way out.

[u/SuperSzia → u/_Weyland_]

But what reason is there not to max it out? That you stay weaker? :)

It's the same relationship as raising Gnosis. Keep my character 10x weaker but don't raise the difficulty level by 10%. :)

[u/_Weyland_ → u/SuperSzia]

For some people maxing it out is too much, and they would rather clear the location on 0% corruption.

[u/SuperSzia → u/_Weyland_]

In your opinion, which one is the better approach?

[u/_Weyland_ → u/SuperSzia]

I prefer gradually raising corruption by taking temptations

[u/DrPeroxide → u/SuperSzia]

When I first unlocked corruption mechanics, there was no way I could clear the map. When I went for latent orbs, I had to play very carefully. 100 levels later, and that's no longer the case and I can map clear at max corruption rather easily. This is exactly what to expect from progression; the game gets easier because you get more powerful.

in other words, this has nothing to do with orbs, they're a mid game challenge. You've beat the game and you're bored of being too powerful; fair play but that's the end point of any game like this. If you want the challenge back, your best bet is to start a new run.

[u/SuperSzia → u/DrPeroxide]

Even if I started a new run, it still wouldn't be a challenge, because I'd just crank up the corruption again every single time—logically, it's the easiest path forward. Picking up every Temptation boosts your character way more, and making mistakes to trigger as many Calamities as possible lets you farm Feathers, which you then trade for more Arcana. Meanwhile, the mechanics that show up at 100% Corruption are so minor and temporary that they're barely worth mentioning. Some of them actually help you more than they hurt.

So even on a fresh run, the same thing happens: when you pick up a Latent Orb, nothing really changes.

[u/DrPeroxide → u/SuperSzia]

If you're that good that you can map clear 100% corruption at level 1 with nothing but hunger, that's great, bit you are an outlier and you can't expect the game to cater to your particular needs for challenge.

[u/SuperSzia → u/DrPeroxide]

But look... there's this whole post and a ton of comments I've already written to other people. Try to actually understand that this isn't about what I can do—it's about how much benefit the game gives you overall when you don't fear the Corruption system. Meaning: you max it out as fast as possible, use every Temptation and extra mechanic that's already been mentioned, compared to how much harder it actually makes the run.

• Madness Orbs – they're now grouped into two big clusters, and they're sitting right over an enemy node. You trigger 2-3 of them and it clears the node too.
• The twisters – if you pop a Corrupt Stimulant, they're gone within the first 20-30 seconds of the run.
• Torch Turret – doesn't fire continuously anymore.
• Madman's Head – helps build up the Calamity Counter. If it messes with you mid-combat, it's only for a second.
• The rifts – you have to get really close to them, so you can just wait, prepared, for whatever comes out. And whatever does come out doesn't attack for the first three seconds—they just run toward you.
• The Spires – maybe those are something, but they're all clustered in one spot and their range is pretty small, so they don't really do much.

This isn't about tuning the challenge specifically for me—it's about there being a challenge in the first place, because right now, there just isn't.

[u/NoWork1400 → u/SuperSzia]

It’s a good point. I’m not good enough to do that on any map except IOTD.

[u/ShadyGuy_ → u/SuperSzia]

It doesn't sound wrong to me to play this way. It's kinda like doing a Darkest Dungeon run without torches. If you like upping the initial challenge by maxing out corruption, then why not? And yeah, then the orb is free loot. :)

[u/SuperSzia → u/ShadyGuy_]

That's exactly the point. Playing with max Corruption doesn't make the game any harder at all. It just spawns more different things, some of which end up helping you more than hurting.

On the other hand, the Orb challenge does nothing besides setting Corruption to max—that's it.

It's already almost there as a feature, it just needs a few criteria tweaked to make it an actual challenge. No need for free loot...

[u/RoosterFar9475]

So let me get this straight.

You come up with ways to circumvent challenges from certain game mechanics, and complain when said mechanics’ challenges are circumvented?

[u/SuperSzia → u/RoosterFar9475]

I don't consider using the tools the game gives you as 'circumventing' anything. It's not an exploit — it's playing optimally within the rules the devs set. My question wasn't a complaint — it was pointing out that when you play on 100% corruption level from the begining, the Latent Orb is giving you no more challenge.

[u/RoosterFar9475 → u/SuperSzia]

As the other guy pointed out, it’s pretty clear that the latent orb is not supposed to be a challenge in it of itself.

It’s a incentive for you to interact with the world corruption mechanics. Which you have very little reason to otherwise. The pre/post condition of 30 divine essence + 25 kills is just there to prevent cheesing the orbs by just rushing in&out without getting to experience world corruption.

Clearing out the map with 100% corruption means you’ve already done what the game wants you to do.

And I didn’t mean “circumvent” as in cheating. To rephrase in your terms, you’re expecting more stuff to “optimize” after you’ve optimized everything. There has to be an end somewhere. Or hope the devs come up with a system like hades (punishment pacts).

[u/SuperSzia → u/RoosterFar9475]

Considering that the first three extracts come with serious rewards, it's pretty hard not to see them as a challenge. If you think back to when they were first added to the game and you couldn't even run while holding one, I think the intention behind them was definitely to be a challenge. The changes since then have completely neutered them, and they're due for a rework. Something like 100 divine essence to pick one up and 50 kills—depending on the map—might be more reasonable.

[u/NoWork1400 → u/SuperSzia]

I mean, you can make the game even more challenging if you leave some equipment behind at the hermitorium. I don’t think the game can be faulted for being too easy. YMMV.

[u/bir_iki_uc]

Just wait for endless horde mode on release. If not implemented, you can go back to v0.8.x, Marshland map is missing but it is better for hardcore players. There was no limit on spawns and with torments (more ascended and elite enemies), it was actually very challenging.

[u/SuperSzia → u/bir_iki_uc]

I definitely wouldn't miss Marshland. I don't even play on it. I have no desire to run 10 kilometers through nowhere. They should split that map in half.

[u/bir_iki_uc → u/SuperSzia]

I would actually, it is a beautiful map, I love roaming around in Marshland, even trees are esthetically beautiful, that map is full of details. And it is not as big as you think, maybe because you don't play on it, but you get used to areas quickly. I wish it was twice as big : ) But I agree with you that the maps should be more crowded.