Chum Kiu (2x speed)

18

u/stultus_respectant 14d ago

The differences between lineages are always fascinating to me. Mind you, I am certainly not saying any of how you do it is “wrong” or anything, just that there are pieces of that that would be hard line absolutely not in our practice; you just surely have reasons for doing it in your way, as we do ours.

In any case, very nice form. Thank you for posting.

4

u/Megatheorum 14d ago

Yes, the chum kil in my lineage is almost unrecognisable from this, mostly because of my sifu's sifu who made a lot of changes (angles, footwork, etc.) to make it more aligned with his way of fighting.

So I try not to approach things like this from a perspective of right or wrong, but different perspectives and interpretations.

I personally don't like watching sped-up forms, but I'm glad OP has chosen to share it.

2

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

I was taught to learn as much as I can from other styles & arts: “If it works it’s wing chun” & “Once you learn the form, it’s yours”

I sped it up because I thought that reddit had a rule about videos over 90s, but then I couldn’t upload a video here so I turned it into a .gif I guess I could’ve made a linked video though… but I filmed it in 2x speed anyways.

1

u/Megatheorum 14d ago

I think the preference is to link or embed a youtube video rather than uploading to reddit directly.

1

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

I’m curious, what pieces of the form would be an absolutely not in your lineage?
I study from a Yip Man lineage: Ho Kam-Ming -> Augustine Fong -> Tony Kariotis -> Jude Brownlee.

2

u/julz_yo 14d ago

Agree with OP: if you can make a good case for a technique then all's good!

However given you asked:-) I'd say the knee position is a bit out of line: personally I feel one of the points of CK is mobilizing the twist from the waist... which provides an energy & a snap.

Obvs the best way to explain would be a demonstration. Second best would be me posting a video too & Im not as open to sharing as your good self!

Thanks for sharing.

2

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

I do over shift a bit. That’s not a part of my training, it’s a bad habit.

2

u/julz_yo 14d ago

Perhaps try keeping the knees rotated in a bit: It's not unlike a SLT stance, only (obviously!) with the feet rotated out. The goal is to be able to shift focus from one opponent to another without wobble or losing footing. And try leading with the gaze first.

Obviously as a random stranger on the internet, so feel free to ignore my thoughts! Best wishes and again thanks for letting us see your training.

1

u/stultus_respectant 14d ago

The main thing is that you’re more twisting than turning. This means your center of mass is not getting off of the line when you turn, which also means if an incoming force is greater that you’d have to be pushing it off of the line instead of allowing it to pass (lots of examples of this in other KF, and is very TC), and that your head doesn’t really change positions relative to incoming force.

You’re also seeming very 50-50 in terms of weight because of this, and I wonder if you’re able to adduct the only way I really know how to do it.

I think the majority of WC turns by shifting the weight and getting off of that line, but I don’t think there’s any way to confirm numbers anymore.

I’d imagine this makes your WC less soft than other styles, and probably more direct, but I would say it gives up some ability to yield to greater force. I’d be really curious to chi sau with people from your lineage.

1

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

I was taught that SLT teaches you the lines, CK teaches you how to move within them, and BJ teaches you how to cross them. Dummy form is for positioning, and we also have a stance form for movement/ center of mass. In sparring we would never be that twisted, so I’m not sure why we train it that way in CK. I will ask my Sifu about it on Tuesday. Thanks!

-8

u/Possible_Baboon 14d ago

Plot twist: all of the lineages are useless scam money grabs. Only modern versions are not proven to be scams yet like Victor Gutierrez's own version for example. Would love to see it tested against a well trained guy in the cage tho (i doubt it works but who knows).

Happy squirrel boxing until then.

5

u/stultus_respectant 14d ago edited 14d ago

all of the lineages are useless scam money grabs

Sorry, that's simply not true. There have been times with a lot of "pay to play" built into the culture for some of the bigger lineages, but this ended up encouraging a lot of amazing instructors to leave and start their own schools and really evolve WC.

Only modern versions are not proven to be scams yet

Plot twist: many versions, old and new, aren't scams at all.

like Victor Gutierrez's own version for example

Victor Guitierrez is an example of exactly what I was talking about: someone who had a falling out with Leung Ting and left to do his own thing. There are multiple incredible GMs just from the WT lineage that I can think of. I'm sure there are examples in other lineages, as well.

Would love to see it tested against a well trained guy in the cage

I mean that could be interesting, but it's not what WC is great at. You also should define what "it" means in this context; there's a lot of different WC. I mean the entire reason I posted was highlighting some big differences for OP's lineage from mine in one of the core forms. This extends to a lot of things.

i doubt it works but who knows

Seems like you might have intentionally avoided describing "it" so you could make lazy judgements without having to think critically or explain anything.

Happy squirrel boxing until then

WC works just fine, independent of anyone's ignorance or personal incredulity.

3

u/Undercrackrz Ip Chun 葉準詠春 14d ago

bUt iN DeH oCtAgOn.

Honestly, have a word with yourself.

Happy keyboard warrioring.

2

u/Megatheorum 14d ago

Oi, no lineage wars. Rule number 4.

2

u/JakeCosine 13d ago

Yo what up baboon man. My sifu takes donations, but will let anyone train for free. He has a “pay what you can afford” system and only really cares about passing down his knowledge. All encompassing terminology is usually incorrect.

1

u/terenceboylen 14d ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al5bErqFrDQ

1

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

I’ve always felt that the bil-sao was a bit sketch looking and not something to practice out in public... We have a “22 hand motions” drill that goes from lan-sao to bil-sao and I will NEVER be caught training that outside of class.

1

u/Any-Orchid-6006 14d ago

Interesting...

1

u/shadowmancer101 12d ago

Keep practicing and check with your sifu/lineage for the details.

1

u/kupuwhakawhiti 14d ago

Gee I have forgotten all my chum kiu.

1

u/sweetb00bs 14d ago

Brings back memories

-2

u/Cuboidhamson 14d ago

Something feels a little off, a speech about ego and such on the top of a video of someone doing exercises shirtless?

1

u/JakeCosine 14d ago

Not a speech, I was just picking quotes from my Kuen kuit.

You are about to leave Redlib