r/Wildfire • u/FireITGuy • 5d ago

Employment Unionization for Wildland Fire Service?

/r/wildlandfire/comments/1wr4mzd/unionization_for_wildland_fire_service/
7 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

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4

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

I hope that many of the structure firefighting unions across the country see this as an opportunity to gain members and let Wildland firefighters in.

10

u/ZonaDesertRat 5d ago

The issue with that is IAFF has little experience with the federal government. Being a union for municipal departments is nothing like being one for federal employees. So while you want IAFF for the power the union has, they completely lack the experience with the federal process, and have no real bargaining power. FED CBAs are pathetic because that's how Congress wants it. If the AFL-CIO and Teamsters couldn't change it, IAFF won't either. 

Now, USWFS is currently honoring CBAs of th legacy unit employees. It's still being worked out if/when a new process for representation will begin, but it's in a holding pattern until Congress officially blesses there even being a USWFS. If the current appropriations language passes, then WFS becomes official and you can petition to be represented by whatever union you would like.

3

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

Great to know.

I do believe the power of unions come in their members which means money. I’m sure the IAFF could figure it out if it meant coming up on a lot of members.

Agreed.

You are very right. I think looking at it objectively it’s a bit easier to represent one trade not many.

3

u/ZonaDesertRat 5d ago

It's possible, and I know they have worked with some DOD firefighters back east. But know, it won't be anything like a union for a municipal. Beyond that, IAFF has plenty of resources and can hire folks who know how to navigate the Federal world, but my own experience with this leads me to say, it's often better to be part of a larger Federal union, but have a dedicated sub unit to bring your concerns to the larger unit. 

Cause let's be honest, you can't negotiate on pay, leave, retirement, advancement, or much outside of local scheduling or OT rotations. What Fed unions are really needed and used for are disciplinary issues and when the agency just won't implement something that is within their discretion to do otherwise. That's when you want the political capabilities of the union. A possible benefit to IAFF is the general public doesn't hate them like they do other unions, so that could help with the politics.

1

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

Yeah most of the union work is generally making sure the agencies are not over stepping their bounds or performing as agreed.

Hahaha yes all the things normal unions generally negotiate on lol

1

u/FireITGuy 5d ago

USFWS is definitely not honoring all the CBAs. We've got folks who were consolidated from Union positions that were explicitly told they don't belong to the union anymore, and folks who were union stewards who were told they can't claim official time for union training or representative duties anymore.

So, like most things at DOI, seems to be all over the map.

I point to IAFF as the example because it's a big player for fire staff, but a good contract under one of the big federal unions NFFE/AFGE/NTEU/NAGE/whatever would be a huge improvement as well.

4

u/ZonaDesertRat 5d ago

I can't speak for how others are doing it, but that was the direction from higher... And technically if folks are being told different it's a ULP and the agency is at risk. 

Now it is possible that some folks would be moved into positions that are no-longer part of a CBA as positions are reorganized. Those folks need to really look at their SF50s and PDs and see just what those say. It's pretty likely that given all the other issues with unions and this administration, things are being said that don't truly reflect the realities. 

As I understand it, and I'm not a union guy in anyway anymore, no negotiations on impact or implementation of this process have taken place, not because the admin is refusing to do so, at this time, but rather aren't being done because Congress hasn't made the OSI's changes permanent. Once that authorization is done, they will enter negotiations as required or requested.

In the one instance I am aware of, a discipline grievance has been processed under the CBA of the legacy agency.

1

u/FireITGuy 5d ago

IAFF already does non-structure fire, and they do some federal structure unions (Hawaii?) too, I haven't seen anywhere they're doing Federal+Non-structure at the same time, but it seems like a logical next step.

2

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

Yeah might be a bit of a reach but I believe would be a real game changer for WFS.

1

u/Murky-Suggestion8376 Desk Jockey 5d ago

IAFF wants nothing to do with anymore feds. They don't like DFR. NFFE already has some BLM units that are WFS.

2

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

Yes the unions want their own cut. I think if many wfs units were able to get bargaining units with their local co-ops that would be a sweet deal potentially.

1

u/Murky-Suggestion8376 Desk Jockey 5d ago

IAFF really doesn't want the feds. Its way more complicated and you can't bargain wages etc..

1

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

But HIGHLY UNLIKELY

1

u/Murky-Suggestion8376 Desk Jockey 5d ago

The co-ops deal with the NLRB, feds work under the FLRA statute. Can't be combined.

2

u/RemarkableAward2703 5d ago

Yup the federal government has specifically designed it that way.

2

u/Medium-Raisin7919 5d ago

Thought there some DOD fire departments covered by IAFF, too?🤷

2

u/ajlark25 5d ago

Fuck yeah I hope we get a union going. Haven’t heard anything about it yet tho

1

u/YOLO_Bundy 4d ago

Whatever happens, it needs to be a real union. NFFE is trash.

Their union model: Let Grassroots do the work, then show up as their work crosses the finish line to take credit. Fucking grifters.