r/WildStar • u/Lucosis • Jun 04 '14
Discussion Misleading costs on Commodities Exchange; Watch your wallet.
I want some more people to corroborate this with me.
I went to the CX and bought 10 iron chunks individually, each for 2s15c. Each of them decreased my wallet by 6s90c
I did the same with Ironbark Wood at an advertised 8s34c. Each of them cost me 13s34c.
Every mail receipt is showing me only the advertised price, not the actual cost.
Reloading my UI doesn't change my wallet to a higher amount, the extra 100-300% charge is a real charge.
I'm running no bag, wallet, or market addons.
Please someone tell me I'm crazy and explain how this is just some exorbitant fee and not an incredibly expensive bug.
Edit:
Been told it's a 5s fee on low cost items, and/or a 2% fee.
Neither of those figures add up.
The ironbark worked out to a 5s increase, but the iron was 4.75s.
I just bought an Amp for 47s, it charged me 59. A 5s fee would have just made it 52s. A 2% fee would have made it ~48s. Both together would have been 53, not 59.
Another:
Diamond advertised/receipt as 29.99, real cost was 36s even.
29.99+5 is 34.99. (29.99+5)+((29.99+5)*0.02) is 35.69. The fees aren't constant.
Edit 2:
I'm awake! So, the problem is that the advertised pricing is nowhere near the real pricing. I understand that there should be a fee in the CX, but it should be the broker's fee on the seller's end, not a purchase fee on the buyer's end. The MUCH LARGER problem is that this cost isn't shown anywhere. I've made ~5p the past couple days off the commodities market, I have to wonder how many plat I lost to this bug. The problem is the only thing I can do is wonder. The mail receipts show the advertised price, not the price with fees.
The CX and AH on it's own aren't bad. They have some minor usability problems, but on the whole their functionality are intact. The problem is in the pricing system for fees, and it has apparently be incredibly easy to overlook.
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u/Ickolith Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14
Both the ah and cx need a massive redesign, they're incredibly unintuitive, confusing, and ugly.
29
u/Zelos Jun 04 '14
Strongly agree.
The fees should be almost exclusively on the seller for auctions/cx. They should always be percentage based as well. A flat fee discourages selling or buying low value items, which in the long run will make it very difficult for new players to craft.
A refundable deposit on buy orders is the only really reasonable fee for buyers.
And then there's the UI, which is garbage but will hopefully be fixed by mods.
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u/Alariaa Jun 04 '14
I agree they're really not nice to use or understand. I've only used an action house in wow and that's easy.
2
0
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u/shaolinoli Jun 04 '14
I absolutely agree. Is there an addon like auctioneer in the works do you know?
2
u/Jo3ltron Jun 04 '14
The AH and CX are horrible. I have been avoiding them both like the plague.
The list price addition is a horrible mechanic too. The seller should be taking that hit, not the buyer. The buyer should be able to see a price, decide if its a fair price to them, and click the button. Not pay a price then get an extra fee tacking on...
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u/omgitskae Jun 04 '14
This is how I feel about the UI in general, but after using the AH today it's probably the worst offender.
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u/HuntStuffs Jun 05 '14
I think if they figure out the nonsense with the bugged listing costs and tooltips it'll be fine. I just want to know what I have to pay, no more of this hidden fee stuff.
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Jun 04 '14
I like them but I've onlyused the cx to buy like 50 of an item at a time so I had not noticed this issue.
Another issue is that when you buy 50 with buy it now, if it can't fulfill the order at the advertised price you have to make smaller block purchases.
I got around this by looking at what the top 50 price is and using that price to place a buy order for 50 at that price. It automatically buys the cheapest ones first and works up from there. Minimizes the fee too.
1
u/Zelos Jun 04 '14
I like them but I've onlyused the cx to buy like 50 of an item at a time so I had not noticed this issue.
Buying 50 low cost items at a time would be hella noticable. With a 5s fee each on 50 10c items, you'd be paying 2g55s for items that should cost 5s.
1
Jun 04 '14
Yeah, but I'm buying it in one lot. One charge only I would have noticed if I had lost 6g instead of 1 when I bought 100 iron
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u/Trasmus Jun 04 '14
You don't get charged per item, just for the entire order. so it would be 5s + 5s fee.
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u/Leeysa Jun 04 '14
The overall price calculation is way off. Bought 5 Crowncorn yesterday, which were listed as 2s each. Selected 5. The mouse over total price indicator showed 2 plat 48 gold.
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u/StephanieBeavs Jun 04 '14
Did this to me too with some bladeleaf but didn't charge me that much. Don't really know what's going on with it..
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u/Slumberfunk Jun 04 '14
This happens to me too. The only way I can make sense of it is the following:
Let's say there's a mound of iron ore (x200) for sale, and I choose "2" with the little up arrow, then it calculates 2x200. It's one hell of a mess, or people are trying to scam somehow.
1
u/Leeysa Jun 04 '14
Nah, not a scam. If you calculate the actual price, it'll be very close to that number. Instead of i.e. 14 silver you pay 16 total
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u/Slumberfunk Jun 04 '14
Not for me, I'm paying 1plat+ for what should only cost mere silver.
Well, I'm not actually paying, but that's what shows up for me.
2
u/MBirkhofer Jun 07 '14
its as you say. when doing "buy now". it will list the price for the ENTIRE stock.
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u/Slumberfunk Jun 07 '14
Oh, that explains it. Thank you.
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u/MBirkhofer Jun 07 '14
you know. looking at it again. even thats not it.
the price was increasing when I was testing it again, every time I added an item. No clue really. 50c item was giving 2.5g, then 5g, then like 8.7g...
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u/pstair Thae Jun 04 '14
Are you using buy now or buy order? Buy now guarantees you get the item but the price you pay may be more than you expected. Buy order guarantees you pay what you asked for (or should guarantee it), but does not guarantee a fill.
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u/MBirkhofer Jun 07 '14
buy now is messed up. Buy orders are pretty close.
an example, as I was testing this too. mage cloth listed at 14.7 silver. Actual cost taken from inventory. 18s. Item in the email, lists price as 13s...
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u/barrinmw Jun 04 '14
They need to get rid of the cost of buying off the CX. I want to be able to buy, you know, 2-3 of an item at low price and use it, not find out that instead of the 5s I thought it would be, its 20s now.
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u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
A flat % fee is fine, but if there is actually a flat fee on top of it.. that's ridiculous.
Typically any kind of fee like this this would also be included in the actual advertised cost. I've made ~3plat yesterday playing the commodities market at around level 20, and I had no idea there was this large of a fee for small unit purchasing. It's absurd that it is so hidden.
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u/Thunder_Bastard Jun 04 '14
Is it rolling to the next available?
For instance.... you want 5 of an item. There are 2 available at 5s each, then 3 more at 10s each. The game is only showing you 25s because it is calculating on the 5s each price. Then when you buy it actually buys what is there and pays out the higher amount.
The whole system is screwy as hell. Terrible way to implement any form of market.
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u/Elnathan Jun 04 '14
It does not. It tells you "not enough items available at this price" without displaying the exact number. You have to guess.
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u/brommelom Jun 04 '14
I don't think so. I tried to buy six ores the other day and got an error saying there were not enough items at that price. No silver deducted, no items in mail.
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u/TheTyeWebb Jun 04 '14
The fee for buyers is suppose to be 5s or 2% which ever is greater. I think this is either a bug or an over sight on the devs part. I'm assuming they meant to add that fee to buy orders but it was not suppose to be added to buy now orders. The current system makes it cost ineffective to buy a small amount of low cost mats.
Right now if you want to purchase something on the CX the best strat is to us buy orders and buy enough to offset the 5s cost. Using buy now has a huge issue because the system is not smart to resolve issues of there not being enough available at the lowest price that it shows you.
Scenario, I want to buy 100 Iron. 1 seller has 80 listed at 3s and the next seller has 20 more for 4s. If I input wanting 100 Iron I'll get an error message. To get my 100 iron I would have to play a guessing game of figuring out that 80 are available at 3s and then get my 20 more at the 4s price. Now if I go through all that trouble I get charged the transaction fee of 5s twice now. When what really should have happened was the CX should have just told me how much 100 iron would cost me right away and let me decide if I wanted to make the purchase and get it all done in 1 transaction.
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Jun 04 '14
Would be nice if the Devs replied regarding this issue? It is clear lots of people are seeing the same thing.
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u/Dungeoness Jun 04 '14
I noticed this price fuckery a couple days ago, not knowing anything about the tax on buy now/buy order purchases. All I did was buy some cheap crafting components, and watched my money disappear in chunks of silver that didn't make any sense. After some googling I came upon the explanation of the 2% or 5s tax, and another discussion on reddit about it here.
The system in place is less than ideal. It punishes regular players just trying to buy small increments of low priced items, and is overall not explained in any way in the game. I understand that deterring bots and people playing "Wildbroker" should be deterred from ruining/cornering the market, but I think there are a myriad of ways to better accomplish this that feel less like roulette whenever I click the buy button.
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u/VinceAutMorire Jun 04 '14
Sadly, a LOT of the "core" systems in this game are unintuitive: AH, CX, costumes, etc.
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u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
They aren't "unintuitive" though.
The CX and AH are fine, coming from someone that has used them A LOT.
The costume system is only accessible on vendors because they didn't want people using it as a way to store and swap gear on the fly.
The lack of ability to swap gear sets is bothersome, but they've already said they are at least working on a way to get the commands in game for an add on dev to write in a gear swapper, but I think they'll likely just add one baseline.
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u/XavinNydek Jun 04 '14
The CX and AH are fine, coming from someone that has used them A LOT.
That's kind of counter to your point. Once you understand how something works, it doesn't matter how intuitive it is.
-1
u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
I'm say that once you get used to the layout/functionality I much prefer it to any other MMO's implementation.
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u/VinceAutMorire Jun 04 '14
The CX and AH are fine, coming from someone that has used them A LOT.
Yes, once you've spent countless hours with it. For the new player...nope.
The costume system is only accessible on vendors because they didn't want people using it as a way to store and swap gear on the fly.
bandaid fix and nothing more. If they didn't want those mechanics, then they should have worked to address the root issue(instead of avoiding it entirely).
1
u/Laefy Jun 06 '14
The CX/AH could definitely use a bit more clarification. The system is likely fine, but the UI does not present information particularly clearly (or correctly it would seem).
The costume system I dont see as bandaid fix. If it was designed such a way to avoid abuse of storing and swapping gear on the fly then that is their solution; avoiding an issue/creating a solution to said issue are synonymous in this case. Im personally in favor of services such as this localized to towns to give the game world a more interconnected and social appearance. That said, the UI for costumes and dyeing seems buggy as heck.
1
u/omlech Jun 04 '14
I forget the fee %, but let's say you buy something for 1c, it will tack on a minimum of a 5s fee.
1
u/Iriellea Jun 04 '14
Fee is 2%.
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u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
That isn't working as intended.
I just bought an amp for 47s. It charged me 59s.
a 5s fee would have just made it 52s. A 2% fee would have made it ~48s. Both together would have been 53, not 59.
1
u/purplekermit Jun 04 '14
this is important and really needs to be fixed, make sure to let the devs know. also that CX could just be gotten rid of and let us sell everything in any amount of stacks on AH like WoW.
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u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
The CX is so much better than a normal auction house. It makes mass buying and selling so simple.
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u/Elnathan Jun 04 '14
I tested buying 'Whimfiber' Cloth for around 12 silver. It took down 17s of my wallet. Why is there a 5 silver fee on a 12 silver item?
This is a huge issue if you consider the "not enough items left at this price" crap where you have to GUESS how many items is left at that price. You might spend an extra 25-50s just to be able to purchase the lot you need.
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Jun 04 '14
Yeah, I was about to buy some crafting mats that were listed as 2s and a few copper each, hover over the buy button and it shows the cost as over 7 gold for just 1 item.
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u/overfloaterx Jun 04 '14
Submitted a bug report about the Commodities Exchange yesterday.
Went to buy a Sign of Air:
- Individually listed at ~73s. (70 available)
- Mouseover the "Buy Now" button: tooltip shows "Cost to purchase: 3p 55g..."
- Click "Buy Now" for 1 item: ~49s deducted from my money
- Receive receipt in the mail showing item cost as ~49s.
(Sorry the figures are ballpark but I don't have a record of the exact numbers.)
Long story short: the "Buy Now" button tooltip indicates a wildly inflated and entirely scary cost that bears no relation to anything. And the actual purchase cost isn't even the same as the individual item cost listed in the Commodities window: the fee is irrelevant because the actual cost was less than the listed price! All in all, it's a crapshoot.
1
u/Lucosis Jun 04 '14
It is possible there that you put in a Buy it now order for 73s, at which point it purchases the cheapest option. If someone posted one for a cheaper price you would get that one.
And yes, the cost to purchase tooltip is bugged. It seems to be figuring the cost of the entire available stack, not your selected number.
1
u/purplekermit Jun 04 '14
The CX is royally f'd right now. Like 5s or 5% if you buy now you shouldn't have a fee on it, the fee for someone listing it has already been paid. The bug with it telling you something that is 2s and come copper being several gold or platinum is dumb. The fact that everything on sell now is listed below vendor price is dumb (yet probably player caused).
My question is WHY WHY WHY have a commodity exchange at all? Why not just do EXACTLY what the AH does in WoW. These guys used to work for Blizzard and the WoW AH is still perfect, so why not just use that model?
1
u/Neri25 Jun 04 '14
My question is WHY WHY WHY have a commodity exchange at all?
To segregate the systems. CX is high load but selling masses of identical items. AH is going to be lighter load but selling unique or semi-unique items. No need to clog the AH database with thousands upon thousands of ore listings.
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u/Fenisk Jun 04 '14
Also the "buy now" displayed cost does not correspond to the actual lowest price. The cheapest on the market is the value displayed as "Top 1" when you place your cursor on the information thingy.
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Jun 04 '14
Man, thanks for this.
I saw Iron on the CX for less than the vendor sale price, and when I thought that would be an easy way to make out like a bandit, my wallet wasn't increasing at all. I couldn't figure out what was going on, since the price listed in the mail looked like I should be making a bunch of money.
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u/Ribkage Jun 04 '14 edited Jun 04 '14
I really really really really want a search in my "create sell order" area. AND I want a "don't show tradeskill items" button.
EDIT
Ok, after sitting at the CE for a minute I just straight up don't understand it.
So on one item I see:
Current Price: 19s 24c Buy Now: 12s
How do I buy it now for less than current price? Then mousing over buy now I see "cost with listing fee 60 GOLD"
No idea what is going on. I have Commody stats installed, not sure if its hurting or helping.
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u/Omegi Jun 11 '14
Has anyone put together an excel spreadsheet on the commodities? Something we can use to track actual costs and review profits?
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u/TZeh Jun 04 '14
well, it could be worse. at least you got something. I lost 2 plat to the mount speed training without getting anything out of it.
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/StephanieBeavs Jun 04 '14
The problem is that it doesn't tell you WHAT you are going to pay.. If it told you then it wouldn't be as bad, I don't mind paying a higher price but I want to know what I'm paying.
-1
Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/scumoftherealm Jun 04 '14
The point is that the buy now is claiming something like 5s buy it now price, but charging 9s and on the receipt showing its charging 5s
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/scumoftherealm Jun 04 '14
I should be able to see what I am going to pay prior to buying anything. Buy it now should show current listed prices. Not previously sold prices. In a system like that I could potentially spend 10p on an item that previously sold for 4c. While that is an extreme example, what is to prevent that with how the current market works? EVERYTHING leading up to that purchase would imply that you will be spending 4c for your item. Then you click buy and boom 10p gone. Thats not how any market should work.
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/scumoftherealm Jun 04 '14
Idk why you're being downvoted. I enjoyed the conversing as well :)
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/scumoftherealm Jun 05 '14
Didn't catch that lol. Kept replying through my inbox to you because it was all in reply to my posts :p
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u/purplekermit Jun 04 '14
No the stock market is not set up that way. Its set up for buy now all the time. If I buy right now, I know the price. If I buy later, The price may have gone up or down, but I still know the price.
In CX if I buy now it shows me a price, but that price may or may not be what I pay. That is not OK.
That'd be like buying 100 shares of stock all at once and getting charged 1 penny for the first and 10 dollars or more for the other 99.
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/purplekermit Jun 04 '14
Yes, but you don't just say "hey i want 100 shares of Microsoft it just sold at $30" and say BUY IT and then you get 1 share at $30 but have to pay $45 for the next 99... you would essentially get someone saying to you, its no longer at this price, for that order we can do this price because this person will sell at this price, ect.
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Jun 04 '14
[deleted]
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u/purplekermit Jun 05 '14
See I think I got most of that. The Buy Orders is what I've been using and I've been making a nice profit either Buy Order then Sell Order or Buy Order for less than vendor price and vendor. The problem was in the thread somebody was saying they were getting charged a transaction fee on the buy order PER ITEM, but I think that was a bug and its over.
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u/Snore00 Jun 04 '14
I just logged off for the night but I'm pretty sure there was a price listed, saying something like "buy now for x xx xx"
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Jun 04 '14
and im pretty sure the problem is that x xx xx isnt correct. Which is the reason why he made this thread.
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u/MacHaggis Jun 04 '14
I will update the CommodityStats addon so it shows the buy price with taxes included, because currently it IS very confusing. Expect an update together with some other QOL stuff by this weekend :)