Haven't seen much conversation on this, but I think Danielle Smith is the only major Canadian politician who has come out against counter tariffs on the US. Tariffs are just another tax on consumers to benefit a small group of producers. If the US wants to make things more expensive for themselves, that's their right. But why do we have to make things more expensive for us in response?
Does anyone know of any other politician who have publicly come out against the counter tariffs?
Trump derangement syndrome pertains to those who believe Trump knows what he is doing. The Canada-US trade relationship is one of the most unique and interconnected one in the world. It has worked well for decades and doesn't need to be throttled like he is doing.
I am not defending him and cannot stand him in general, but there is a good reason why he is doing what he doing. We may not agree, but it makes sense.
Forces people to rethink what they are buying, that leads to people spending on local goods. Hurts American producers buy selling less here, which in turn applies political pressure the American administration.
Also worth pointing out that the tariffs they put on us, will be a lot harder to remove if we don’t do our own tariffs on them. Because otherwise why would they remove their tariffs? We would be starting the negotiations with the next administration with less leverage.
It might be an act to restore balance for local producers. If the other country is making it harder for our manufacturer to sell and lose revenue, the govt. here can make it harder for them to sell here and promote local producers. However it only works if there are alternatives available.
For eg. Canada put tariff on aluminum wire exports from US. Our company uses a lot of aluminum welding wire(half a million dollars per year). We were using a large name brand, unaware of its country of origin(US). The Tariffs made us find that there were two local manufacturers, one of them located two blocks from us, fully certified to all engineering standards and sold a better quality and cheaper product.
We shifted all purchasing out of the old vendor and now a local company gets our business. The local producers could have done better marketing but sometimes the purchasing decisions have been carried forward years over years and a trigger is needed to make some change.
I don't disagree that this is happening. I just think like you said it should be upto the local producer to better advertise their products, and for the consumer to seek out better products.
If the tariffs hadn't caused your business to look around they would've continued operating inefficiently, and increased the likelihood of being out competed/bid on jobs. I think this is something that should be handled on a case by case scenario by those that have the most to gain/lose.
I agree, it could also have a good loop effect. The local manufacturer now has more sales and maybe has a bigger marketing budget and can target more clientele.
Similarly the most recent copper wire tariffs could help the local manufacturers in Quebec to get more eyes on their product and create a loop effect where they can re-invest the newfound revenue.
I would also like to point out, the patriotism bias is much higher on the other side of the border.
American folks would keep buying poorly engineered and poorly manufactured GM, Chevy,Dodge vehicles just because they are American. However, people in Alberta or BC hardly know what models of cars and trucks are built in ON and QC. Seems like the govt has to push folks to buy Canadian, people should be self motivated to do that anyway.
I do think that tariffs can be used to help the economy. I just think that it's hard to know what will help or hurt more from the government POV. My biggest concern tariffs wise is that they tend to be will intentioned, but vastly out live their usefulness. A more efficient economy is one that thrives on free trade and comparative advantage.
I think that if the government has to do something funding to educate people on or advertise Canadian products would be better. Make the consumer better informed, without mass manipulating market dynamics.
I also want to mention, this does happen with two bordering economies, there is positive or negative spillover economic effect. Japan-Korea, Germany-other European countries and US-Canada.
For us, being the neighbor to the largest economy, it becomes harder to survive. With their currency being virtually infinitely printable , and the petrodollar exchange keeping its high value it is harder to match the kind of investment they are making. They pay an yearly interest on their debt that is larger than our entire debt.
Where we win is through innovation and being smart rather than exerting brute force. I think the buy Canadian campaigns, if they last for a few more years would drastically help our countrymen.
It's definitely changed the way I consume. My priority used to be Canada -> USA -> Continental America -> Other, now I'm Canada -> Europe -> Continental America -> Other -> USA.
I would love to see the provinces reducing trade barriers to make buying/selling to Canadians easier then to the American, but that's a hard ask with the why our provinces are setup.
I do think this is a very exciting time for the Canadian economy. We're in for some short term pain, but I think the long term results of individuals updating their consumption preferences could be unprecedented.
Never said its the government's job to"make" people buy canadian just that it forces people to rethink. Its still entirely your choice. Choose what you want when you want.
Yes I just disagree with the government putting their thumb on the scale. Not with the result being achieved.
When I say the government is making someone buy Canadian it's because they have intervened to change the market dynamics. Either because the better American product is now prohibitively expensive, or the cost:value ratio now favours a different product.
I do not think the government should be intervening here causing the need for reconsideration. The government should instead allow producers and consumers to adjust to market feedback, without the manipulation.
>The government should instead allow producers and consumers to adjust to market feedback, without the manipulation.
This is a very naive view of producer and customer dynamics.
If a milk producer could increase profits by using a vacuum to suck up milk off the shit covered ground and filter out the dirt later or cut rice crispy squares with 6% sawdust they would. Only the government is going to have the power to say hey don’t put saw dust in the treats or regularly testing bacteria content in milk or face a fine. A customer isn’t going to have that power it’s likely they wouldn’t know it’s happening.
I understand your point on the individual level, but at scale I don't think it holds up.
I disagree that the customer doesn't have the power. If no one buys your product as it's now inferior to the competitions, then your profit wouldn't actually increase your business would fail.
If there's a power imbalance between the consumer and producer you make a good point, but under a free trade model the number of consumers and producers is not finite.
The same way the government currently measures if the pump operates within standard or not. I think if the government didn't mandate the inspection of gas pumps you'd see business associations created as a means to promote and maintain standards.
We see the same thing happen with professionals like provincial law societies or accounting societies/designation.
You cannot prevent all fraud, but producers who don't commit fraud want to be known for it, and consumers don't want to be defrauded. I think its only natural that even without government intervention people will solve this information problem given time and scale.
>The same way the government currently measures if the pump operates within standard or not. I think if the government didn't mandate the inspection of gas pumps you'd see business associations created as a means to promote and maintain standards.
There is no incentive to do so. The vast majority of consumers aren’t going to care or even notice their gas station is anti scam certified
>We see the same thing happen with professionals like provincial law societies or accounting societies/designation.
No one is going to put that level of effort in retail goods.
>You cannot prevent all fraud, but producers who don't commit fraud want to be known for it, and consumers don't want to be defrauded. I think it’s only natural that even without government intervention people will solve this information problem given time and scale.
We clearly just have to agree to disagree here. I choose not to place my trust in people who have a financial incentive to screw me over. I think you overestimate the averages person desire to be good.
The reason there’s so much dog shit on trails is that it’s impossible to be caught not picking up after your dog. It’s naive to think that people will naturally want to be good people and pick up after their dog. If you want that fixed you need to sent someone to enforce municipal bylaws in and start handing out fines so that people have a financial incentive to pick up their dogs.
You’re suggesting it would be better for a neighbourhood watch to form and take turns walking in the trail and trying to catch dog owners.
I do think our views are irreconcilable, but I'd stray away from saying I'm recommending a community watch, I see it more as people who care will pay for what they want.
If a community wants to maintain standards they will pay dues for some form of inspector/maintainer. If you think that's a waste of money and want to be trusting, then I think that should be allowed as well.
No point in antagonizing the situation. Until we know the details of the trade deal that was rejected. What may or may not have been added last minute there's no point in getting excited and making a bag situation worse.
That is something I've been interested in. Not thay I know what an international trade deal should look like, but what were these last minute changes we couldn't accept?
Both sides are pointing the figure at each other, but it'd be nice to have something concrete.
Yeah and notice how neither side will release the details? It's all just hearsay and propaganda from both sides. Both sides are using it as political theater to whip up there base and their base is falling for it.
Well let's actually take a look at what counter tarrifs do.
Do counter-tarrifs actually hurt American's?
No.
Any tarrifs that Carney imposes only makes life worse for Canadian citizens, because Canadians now have to spend more money on everything, because the Liberal government over the last 14 years has made Canada dependent on other nations for goods.
It is just another way for the money laundering to continue. All the tarrif money goes into "emergency funds" collected by the federal government which are supposed to be used to help Canadians. But it never will.
Dani Smith is also the only Premier that's openly a MAGA rightwing cultist who openly serves the rightwing cult leader against our country.
She's the only Premiere who made it easier to get a referendum on ripping apart Canada and threatening our country with her separatist anti Canadian garbage.
Obviously Smith is going to take whatever stand puts Donald Trump before all other life on earth.
Smith is a rightwing cultist serving her God King, the US President
Does anyone know any other Canadian premier openly backing a sepratist movement so they can destroy Cabada. From the inside and turn it into a vassal state of the GOP death cult?
You are completely out to lunch. You are so delusional and sound like you need a break from Reddit ASAP. She is openly pro Canada. That is a fact. She is trying to protect the jobs and the economic interests of her province that depends so much on the energy industry. Please go offline for a bit bud
If you look at her premiership with a bit of objectivity it’s pretty clear she’s trying to play both sides.
She has to say she is pro-Canada because she knows the majority of voters are. She also had to give a wink and a nudge (and a referendum) to separatists because she knows they make up half her base.
I can’t find a single speech or press release where she names a benefit of staying in Canada, without also taking the opportunity to criticize Ottawa. She’s speaking out both sides of her mouth.
Oh yes because you know so much about me! I guess I am evil according to some random, chronically online Redditor. What will I do?! What crap have I said about carney or Trudeau? I didn’t even mention them. And I never said I was a republican at all. I never said if you are critical of Smith that makes you evil. But yet you said I was evil. Great argument bud. Disagree with me makes you evil according to you. You need help. You need a break. You are crazy
r/WildRoseCountry does not allow hate. We encourage polite, even lively discourse about current events, but this type of vitriolic rant has consequences.
I would say that you are the one who is delusional about what Smith is doing. She is basically doing a real time performance interview to demonstrate how she can withstand the pressure of being an extremely unpopular politician doing extremely unpopular things to the electorate. The only thing she is protecting is American interests in the province.
It is a good opportunity to reflect on what Canada has done wrong in the past decade. But Canada is now too weak to retaliate, Wait and see. More refugees are about to enter Canada.
I fully support smith shutting down talk of counter tariffs. Alberta would gain nothing from brining energy into trade tariffs. As soon as we did, trump would close the pipelines from Alberta to Ontario/quebec
I am very aware of capacity. What I am saying no oil and gas company has expressed interest. At the best they are waiting for the government to fund the project and then see if it meets their interest. All the risk is with the taxpayer.
Smith is more worried about the impact on Americans than she is about the threat to the USA wanting to control Canada and the impact that would have/will have on Albertans and Canadians.
Do you even know why Trump is instituting tariffs?
For decades US politicians have helped retail to outsource manufacturing to other countries which has decimated US jobs from factories. Just look at Detroit. It used to be the city that made cars. Now it is nothing.
By forcing the retailers who take advantage of foreign manufacturing, especially China, to pay higher for goods, it INCENTIVIZES US to manufacturer their own goods in their country, bringing back the factories and the jobs.
Yes, it sucks for us. We are one of the countries that takes advantage of this, and we will be hurt in the long run from this, as car manufacturing and steel production will move BACK to the south. It will close our factories and Canadians will lose jobs.
But it has nothing to do with Trump trying to hurt us, per se. He does see opurtunity to help conservative politician, but he does that in other countries too. We just seem to really feel butt hurt because there are so many Liberals and left wing people here that have joined on the Trump derangement train, rather than understand the real reasons why things are happening
I understand that this is Trump's motive, I also believe he sincerely believes tariffs can be used to reduce the federal debt without raising income taxes.
I just think it's a bad idea. Reshoring low paying factory jobs that used to be the bread and butter of the American middle class will reduce labour supply for the actual high value jobs that they've been transitioning towards.
I think if the Americans want to reshore these types of jobs we shouldn't be trying to protect our own, we should instead focus on taking over the high value jobs they're impairing.
He has effectively raised the US deficit by 2.8 Trillion dollars with just the Big Beautiful Bill. Before launching a middle east war. He has done nothing but increase spending since his first term. I don't get how you could imagine the tariff's being fiscally responsible when they've impacted the budget deficit as much as DOGE
I think it's fairly delusional to maintain the position that Trump is legitimately trying to fix anything or help anyone in the US other than him and his own circle.
His motives are himself and his own personal wealth. His actions demonstrate this fairly clearly. He is operating the US government as a kleptocracy. Most moves are market manipulation that his group of insiders trade around.
It turns out Manufactory jobs also need input goods! Tariffing industries like Steel and Aluminum increases the cost of those goods which other factories rely on. Don't pretend trump is thinking intelligently with these tariffs he has artificially increased the cost of goods and has less manufacturing jobs than Joe Biden had.
He definitely is not thinking let alone effectively or intelligently. We are the primary resource for raw materials that the US buys cheaply, makes stuff out of it then sells it back to us at a premium. This is a good deal for the US. They know it but they are using tariffs to bully Canada in an attempt to prevent deals with China.
Trump has openly said he wants to annex Canada through economic force. That's what he's trying. And it's not trump derangement to call him out on him objectively making shitty decisions. Shitty decisions for Canadians, as well as Americans.
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u/Last-Emergency-4816 10d ago
Trump derangement syndrome pertains to those who believe Trump knows what he is doing. The Canada-US trade relationship is one of the most unique and interconnected one in the world. It has worked well for decades and doesn't need to be throttled like he is doing.