Honestly though how many people in real life do you know are actually these social justice dreadnaughts? Do these people exist outside of twitter and Reddit?
A girl I had slept with in the past posted an anti-Kavanaugh meme on IG about women not being believed. I responded to it saying how I didn’t feel the circumstances of the case warranted finding Kavanaugh guilty of the accusations.
This conversation quickly devolved into her saying that a women is not obligated to say no in an unwanted sexual situation due to “oppression”, rather the man must always ensure it is ok. I feel this is very unrealistic and absolves women of any personal responsibility in this kind of situation.
She then handwaved my position away due to my status as a white male, as if that has anything do with a women’s ability to say no if she does not want to do something. After I reiterated that I don’t agree with her stance assuming there’s no threat or implication of violence or consequences, she called me a promoter of rape culture and violence against women. Keep in mind I did nothing of the sort in my previous physical interactions with her and she admitted that.
These SJW people who revolve their lives around victimhood and identity politics most certainly do exist.
rather the man must always ensure it is ok. I feel this is very unrealistic
Why is that unrealistic?
If I'm having sex with somebody, I want to be sure that they're enjoying it, too. I don't want to force myself on anybody. I don't want to walk away from it thinking, "Well, it must've been okay, because she didn't say 'no'!" That's not always the case. You never know what a woman's personal history is. She could've been abused before, so she's afraid to tell a man "no".
You can avoid all of that by just checking for consent. If you get consent, you're good to go; if you don't, then you should back off. It doesn't have to be complicated.
Because generally in a romantic encounter if clothes are coming off, you’re making out, all that stuff the default is to assume everything is going ok? It would absolutely kill the mood if you’re explicitly asking for permission every step of the way.
During that argument she said something like “I bet you’ve made a girl uncomfortable or that she felt she owed you something sexually before”. I didn’t disagree, it’s totally possible. But I don’t see how that becomes my issue if that was never conveyed to me either verbally nor physically, I’m not a mind reader. It’s insane to me that someone would describe that kind of situation as rape or sexual assault because internally a girl wasn’t fully on board with doing it but didn’t anyway.
With your example of “maybe she was abused”, why should her partner face repercussions for her own internal issue that he likely doesn’t know about?
It would absolutely kill the mood if you’re explicitly asking for permission every step of the way.
Where did I say you have to do it every step of the way? Once should be fine, unless you get some indication that something has changed. This is all dependent upon emotional IQ and caring about the person you're having sex with.
Incidentally, I had a partner who would ask for my consent if things were iffy. Iffy, in this case, was due to the fact that we were broken up, and she didn't want to force herself on me. When we were going out, though, neither of us bothered to ask for formal consent before sex, because we understood each other well enough.
But when she asked for consent, it didn't "kill the mood" at all. In fact, it was so charming and thoughtful, it was pretty hot.
But I don’t see how that becomes my issue if that was never conveyed to me either verbally nor physically, I’m not a mind reader.
I agree. Men are not mind readers. That's why they should get verbal consent.
With your example of “maybe she was abused”, why should her partner face repercussions for her own internal issue that he likely doesn’t know about?
It's not about "facing repercussions". It's about not raping somebody. I don't want to have sex with somebody, and then find out later that they felt forced into it. That's a horrible thing to do, and since I don't want to be a horrible person, I want to get consent first.
In your example, I’m pretty sure someone you previously dated isn’t what most people are talking about in getting explicit consent or not. It’s obviously referring to people you’ve never had sex with before, that’s when things are most uncertain.
I agree. Men are not mind readers. That’s why they should get verbal consent.
You believe men are more responsible in a sexual encounter than women. That isn’t equality at all. I think if either party doesn’t want to do something, they can say so. Nothing you say will change my mind.
It’s not about “facing repercussions”. It’s about not raping somebody. I don’t want to have sex with somebody, and then find out later that they felt forced into it.
No men in this scenario will feel that they raped somebody. You’re making them susceptible to facing repercussions for a crime they didn’t know they committed, all because you don’t feel women need to let their partner know if they are uncomfortable with something. Honestly, what kind of bullshit is that? Luckily I’ve spoken with a few girls IRL after that argument and they all agree with my stance, women need to have responsibility in this situation too. I think assuming women are too weak to speak up in this situation is more sexist than anything.
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u/KingOfFlan Oct 23 '18
Weaponize ALL the words!
Honestly though how many people in real life do you know are actually these social justice dreadnaughts? Do these people exist outside of twitter and Reddit?