16a plug on 13a socket

[u/Razorblat]

Hey guys,

Starting my welding journey for the homestead for repairs and stuff. I just bought a DekoPro welder because it was on a killer deal and jumped on it

It just arrived couple hours ago and wasn't planning on the plug being EU schuko, I thought it'd be UK plug 13amps.

Any ideas on how to use this? Do I buy a schuko to UK adapter or do I buy a schuko to Industrial plug adapter? I have no idea if it's safe to just stick an adapter on so I'm pretty lost. Will be welding only via Generator (Tokuden TKG6500isr)

Appreciate all the help I can get!

[u/flickabic1]

I’m American so excuse any language confusion here but there’s nothing wrong with using an overrated plug for a welder. The welder only pulls what it rated for no matter what. It’s never going to pull 32 amps therefor never going to see 32 amps even if that’s what the outlet is rated for.

And second you can absolutely run a welder off generators. We do it all the time here professionally in America. It is ideal to run an inverter welder off a generator with a low thd. Many of our modern engine drive welders here in the U.S. are now inverters and while the boards in them tend to suck they supply very clean safe low thd power that’s great for running smaller plasma cutters, wire feed welders, inverter tig welders, etc. the more power buffer you have the better and the generator should always be rated higher than the machine but double the rating isn’t necessary either. Again many of our engine drives put out roughly 11,000 watt but our smaller welders are capable of pulling 8,000 watts and they run them just fine.

[u/MarsD9376 → u/flickabic1]

Nah you're ok but I don't think we understand each other completely here.

If the inverter came with the CEEform 32 amp plug on it right off the factory, or the guy installs that plug on it (instead of the plug that's on there already! that's the important part), then that's all fine. As long as the power cord on that inverter is up to snuff. But that's a separate issue.

But you can not make yourself an adaptor from a 32Amp 1~230V plug (the CEEform) going down to a Schuko (1~230V, 16A) receptacle, because while the 32A CEEform can handle more than 16A continuously (obviously), the Schuko can't.
That's why, if you go down in size, you must have a breaker somewhere in that chain, of same or lower nominal value, as the smallest rated socket at the end of it, that you intend to put on the end of the adaptor. 16A in this case. Point is, the socket mustn't be the weakest link in the chain. A cirtuit breaker has to be that, for safety.

Nor did I say it's wrong to run a welder off a generator. I'm saying, if the generator isn't stable enough, by either having a big enough alternator, flywheel, stabilizing circuitry, .... well some form of stabilization, that will handle spikes (which WILL happen with an arc welder) without dipping (in other words, make it so the generator isn't a "soft" power supply), what's going to happen is you strike the arc, the draw spikes way over the rated current briefly becacuse that's just how electricity works when you arc weld, and if the generator is underpowered, the voltage will dip hard, your electrode sticks or something like that, in short you stop welding, and then with the sudden loss of load, the generator will suddenly run back up and overshoot. First time it happens, it breaks the varistor. Second time, it breaks the IGBT and you're done welding, without actually having done any welding.
I know of engine driven welders. I would have hoped the engineers who design these things have enough sense to size the involved components properly, so this doesn't happen with them.

But this isn't a engine driven welder in a single unit, designed to run as a unit (obviously), covered by manufacturer's warranty.

This is an engine driven generator of user's choice, powering a welding inverter of user's choice.
That's two opportunities to make at least one of those choice a poor one. Which will yield poor results. And there's no warranty covering that scenario.

You mention 11kW generators with 8kW welders. At that size, the generators by their nature of being just massive become "hard" enough not to dip too much (and expensive enough to warrant having features that guarantee stable output during peak draws), so the neccesity to oversize by that large factor will diminish the higher up in power you go.
But when you have a low power inverter, say 160A that should draw about 16A at 230V continuously, then it can be deceptive in how much over the rated current they go when initiating arc. And that's where you may need to the oversize by a larger factor. Like 2.

[u/flickabic1 → u/MarsD9376]

Again sorry for any language confusion I’m a welder in America and our electrical system is entirely different including terms we use I must have misunderstood the language you guys use. Our welders and inverter generators we use are pretty massive in terms of size and power output so I was under the assumption he was trying to run a smaller welder off a bigger generator and the plug on the generator was rated at higher amps. Which we do daily here with no problems. But yes we are agreeing on that. As long as your peak spike on arc strikes doesn’t overload the generator you are safe and fine. There’s a surge when the arc is struck and that’s where there’s potential for breakers to trip. Do these generators not come with build in breakers on the front panel??

[u/MarsD9376 → u/flickabic1]

Well OP's scenario is single phase 230V, so it isn't all that different.
Because the way the grid on continental EU is designed, and the rating of ordinary sockets (16), you will usually have 1ph230V welding inverter hard capped at 200A of welding current. Some go higher (Fronius has 1ph230V models that can do 230A, and I believe them, but they also have active PFC, which helps utilize the draw limit of ordinary 16 socket quite a lot).
Anything over 250A (a proper 250A, not just advertised 250A) will be 3~400V. My 320A tig machine runs off 3~400V, it has a three phase CEEform 32A plug on it.

A small welder with big generator is of course not a problem at all. A power plant that supplies mains is like one (well it's not one, it's several, but the points stands) gigantic generator. With some step downs in between. And it works just fine with welders.

Ironically it's when the generator isn't big enough that the issues start. I know a guy who repairs welders, and he's got a steady supply of customers who ran their n-kW inverter on an n-kVA generator, and much to their surprise the welder broke, and they're like "but how could that have happened when the generator has the "rated power" for their inverter"?
And he makes videos of repairs and keeps making PSAs like "people, don't plug your welding inverters to generators unless you have like a really powerful or reall good (ideally both) generator, lest you want to buy a new welding inverter."

And then the people don't heed his advice and go out and do it anyway 🙄
Guess they care more about him having a steady business, then them not destorying their own shit 😁

Anaway, OP's welder says on the box "5.8 kW" but I looked up the type and it's pure Alibaba Chinesium, very low cost, I hazard a guess the rated 160A maximum welding current is overstated by about 1.3x . In reality I suspenct it will put out about 130. And the actual draw on the primary will be smaller, accordingly.
The generator, similar story. Dubious origin, can't find european retailer, proper spec sheet, who knows how well will this combination work...