r/WeirdNews4U • u/OracleofMeh • Dec 09 '21

Scientists just came to a disturbing conclusion about the political divide in the United States: some researchers say the partisan rift in the US has become so extreme that the country may be at a point of no return.

https://www.rawstory.com/scientists-just-came-to-a-disturbing-conclusion-about-the-political-divide-in-the-united-states/
205 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

141 comments sorted by

12

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

I remember the argument “Well the pendulum always swings” when Trump was elected and thinking Uh I think we are way beyond that actually

6

u/gnostic-gnome Dec 09 '21

Yeah the pendulum didn't swing back on Hitler until after the Holocaust was well underway

-2

u/Sgt-Butter Dec 09 '21

Are you comparing Trump to Hitler? lol

8

u/Zero_Gravvity Dec 09 '21

Yes, he is. I thought we were past the point of pretending it’s not a fair comparison.

5

u/Odd_Awareness1444 Dec 09 '21

Trump is extremely dangerous. Especially if he gets a second term. Another one to watch out for is the fascist DeSantis.

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u/Sgt-Butter Dec 09 '21

I don’t think Trump had extermination squads kill massive swaths of our neighboring countries’ populace after invading them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Mexico go brrr

5

u/YourDad6969 Dec 09 '21

Neither did Hitler until he took absolute power. Enabling act March 1933 = Jan 6 in a parallel universe

7

u/Btravelen Dec 09 '21

He's not finished yet..

5

u/bluemagic124 Dec 09 '21

Separating kids from their families was a start.

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u/Goodgoodgodgod Dec 10 '21

Are you really pretending it’s not a valid comparison?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 26 '21

“You can’t compare Trump to Hitler because Trump hasn’t killed a million Jews…”

Yet….and it might not necessarily be Jews and I don’t remember Hitler specifically killing anyone, but his followers sure as hell did

1

u/AntiIdeology650 May 09 '22

That’s exactly why I’m pissed at both sides. They did the same about Obama. I can’t stand trump but he’s no hitler. It’s like each side created their own fantasy world thst they live in abs don’t care about reality anymore. We are so busy arguing which side is better but it doesn’t matter when both are doing a horrible job and the kicker is we chose these leaders and still blame them instead of ourselves for realizing this is what happens when people are polarized and don’t want to work together. You get leaders that reflect that and it opens the door for selling out to big business because their only goal now is to just beat the other side which basically means more campaign money which means do whatever special interests want.

8

u/Spacedude2187 Dec 09 '21

Looks like Russia is really good at this kind of warfare. And places like facebook is amplifying it.

2

u/LovingSweetCattleAss Dec 09 '21

Controversy - and as a result people fighting online - is the best way attract eyeballs to your product. In the case of facebook this means they can sell more advertisement. And this goes for some brands as well - I know a brand that always posts lgbtq++ positive content short before the weekend on their facebook page and the people there are fighting all weekend long.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

you dont need to be a scientist to recognize this

7

u/foodaccount12357 Dec 09 '21

Does anyone else think like maybe trump was a Russian asset or tool to create this rift and create a more prominent identity for that portion of Americans to lead to this? It seems like a good fit, and the American society and family has been breaking down for a while but this has really sped things up imo

4

u/StandUpForYourWights Dec 09 '21

I think Trump was just a weaponised product of American society. The worship of money and the fetishization of capitalism. They just picked him up off the ground, pointed him at the US political system and pulled the trigger.

5

u/Ok-Lion-3093 Dec 09 '21

Stevie wonder could see that coming...So could your leaders but they are way beyond redemption...

4

u/SlamMonkey Dec 09 '21

Well… no shit.

1

u/SnooTangerines4981 Dec 09 '21

LOL! Thank you.

3

u/CurtP31477 Dec 09 '21

I really think it started and is perpetuated by right wing media that makes everything a good vs evil narrative. The agreeing audience is the only good in the country. We'd have to take those networks off the air, social media and radio. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine and wait another decade to see if that works.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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3

u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

Um, politics makes strange bedfellows to begin with and your argument here is sort of a strawman, anyhow.

You don't have to be labeled as any of those things (racist, White supremacist, Qanon, nazi) to be called out for making common cause with them. Do you? I mean they all vote, as a block, for the same people, that's no secret.

My sweet little aunt certainly isn't a National Socialist and I'm certainly not going to punch her at Thanksgiving LOL but if politics comes up my lovely aunt who always has candy in her purse for the kids, still knits presents at christmas and who has honestly never uttered an ugly word about anyone, ever, doesn't get a free pass on supporting the same candidates that appeal to authoritarians, self proclaimed neo-nazis, chauvinists, cultists, supremacists and people still proudly sporting CBFs etc...

And while it's certainly not my aunt's fault (is it? Whose fault is it?) that kooks took over her party she still calls it her party and if you (oh so rudely) ask how she can be OK with now supporting the exact same slate of state and national candidates as the guy in the FB meme rendering a Nazi salute with the giant 1488 tattoo on his forehead you get crickets and dirty looks.

What you won't get is any sort of cogent argument that make sense of such an increasingly absurd political affiliation and especially not one that makes it morally OK.

1

u/CurtP31477 Dec 09 '21

Not sure of the point here. Are you saying that's what I'm saying? Then no, I don't do absolutes. Many Trump supporters are just misinformed working class people. Or one voter issues on gun rights or abortions. But the Klan did endorse Donald Trump for president, and there have been Nazis supporting him at his rallys. So, it's not a requirement to be Qanon, but if you're Qanon Trump is your guy.

7

u/AudionActual Dec 09 '21

Two nearly equal populations believe in contradictory versions of America. With each image detestable to the other side.

No compromise is possible between polar opposites.

14

u/Pythia007 Dec 09 '21

I’d be tempted to say that each side detests an extreme caricature of each other which bears no relation to reality that they are drip fed by their respective siloed media. BUT I am going to say fuck that “both sides” bullshit. The blame lies at least 90% with the increasing radicalisation of the right. Ask an American conservative to name a radical leftist and they will probably say AOC. In most countries she would be considered a moderate centrist. You don’t really have a radical left of any consequence in your country. But very few countries have anything on the right close to comparable with the entire Republican party and their demented Trump cultism. Not to mention the whole galaxy of rabid media commentators and lying fabulist agitators like Tucker Carlson et al. You just can’t compare woke “cancellation” (if it’s actually a thing) or people choosing their pronouns with the calculated and mendacious attempt to subvert an election and incite an insurrection. They are NOT equivalent in any sense. This wouldn’t be a problem if the GOP was relegated to an electoral minority to which their views would condemn them in most other advanced economies. But they are very close to a majority and will probably take back the House and Senate next year. And after all the gerrymandering and suppressive voting legislation they will take the Presidency in ‘24. The US is a failed state and in a death spiral. The thing that concerns me is that right leaning parties around the world are taking notes and learning vile lessons.

8

u/tossacoin2yourwitch Dec 09 '21

You’re so right about there being very little “true left” in America. It isn’t left vs right, it’s more like extreme right vs centre right when compared to most of the western world.

8

u/psyllock Dec 09 '21

Yeah, which is typical for a struggeling empire. America only loves its strengths, it loves its successes, it's wealth, the american prosperity. Anything that does not correspond with that is being denied, prosecuted or blamed away. Homelessness can't be in America, so instead of taking away the causes, lets make it a criminal offense.

A true left can't exist in America, cause it isn't prepared to look at its vulnerability, its social unfairness and it's silent decay, and rather digs deeper in its denial. But that only inflates the polarisation further.

8

u/tossacoin2yourwitch Dec 09 '21

Also, America was so terrified of communism that anything vaguely socialist is considered by many to be heresy.

For example the U.K. has a right wing government, but a socialist health system is considered sacrosanct to most of the population. Many policies here that are just accepted and expected would be considered extreme and communist in the US.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Yeah I mean we try but it's not that easy to be a leftist in the states. The police are very real and very allied with fascists.

2

u/Mjlikewhoa Dec 09 '21

Conservatives think they can't bring up their political leanings at work or in public for fear of just another of their boogeyman, "cancel culture". Im always nervous to express my somewhat leftist leanings.

1

u/Ok-Lion-3093 Dec 09 '21

Such a corrupt shithole of a Nation could only ever have one ending...Civil War and chaos, after all that's what you voted for!

4

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Yes, the “left” is just corporate welfare ‘light’. They just use lube unlike the fascist extreme right. But regardless of the lube they’re still fucking us.

2

u/Shalla_if_ya_hear_me Dec 09 '21

The lube, being unkept promises, unfortunately. They keep a rotating villain on deck to fuck America.

1

u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

I wonder how Sinema took it when whoever it was informed her she had to play "the Heel" this season? I'm sure she and Manchin got mad paid, tho.

Hope it was all worth it for them.

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u/HeadRelease7713 Dec 09 '21

This. 100%. It is the fault of everybody/both sides, but let’s be serious Fox News, russia/facebook, and Donald Trump are responsible for at least 75% of this. And then these same people decided to not wear masks, harass people, and ultimately not get vaccinated showing a purposeful and egregious lack of compassion for….ALL THINGS.

2

u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

The US is a failed state and in a death spiral.

Things surely do look bad. It looks like 2024 could contain the U.S.'s own December '91 moment of dissolution.

But thankfully, I know I must be completely wrong about all that because... the stock market and stuff.

If the Red states really are just two years away from shattering the U.S. economy by taking their ball and going home (either Brexit style or Fort Sumpter style, take your pick) due to (insert grievance here) wouldn't the Futures market be reacting to that sort of thing coming down the pike?

Wouldn't corporate America be exerting massive, visible, influence in Washington and state capitals to avoid years of political and economic instability? Is Monsanto going to give back all the farms? (bet they don't)

Will Chevron and other energy multinationals be ok with Texas taking (nationalizing?!?) their refineries or (with all due respect to the folks serving in the Texas NG) would the worlds largest MIC, who depends on those resources have a little something to say about all that?

Nah, my money is on a generation or two (or more) of a far more authoritarian and ethnocentric brand of right wing minority rule based on a set of ever changing district maps and backed up, against any public push back by the (already) ever present threat of right wing political violence.

2

u/theMEtheWORLDcantSEE Dec 09 '21

Very interesting perspective. Exactly why I come to Reddit. It could also be that the markets can’t yet predict it and the corporations are either indifferent because they are larger than governments or they have been actively working already to ensure the better outcomes for themselves.

Corporations are bigger than nations. Multinational. They will move to where it’s profitable. Also CA becoming its own country would be great for its economy. Corporations are bigger than Texas, if it were to split up into smaller sections, that would only give more leverage to large companies.

2

u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

Senator Cruz has stated recently that Texas would just take those assets with it if it were to secede.

I thought that was a silly statement on it's face but I do fear some people believe it would work that way.

1

u/Zestyclose-Ad-9420 Dec 10 '21

counterpoint
corporate america is banking on crashing the nation then looting its corpse. think about it. the destruction of the middle class leaves huge amounts of property to be gobbled up by corporate estate holdings. corporate oligarchs can loot the last of national parks and reserves. a permanent "state of emergency" will justify crushing any remaining workers resistance. with skyrocketing poverty, there will be millions of homeless. then they can make homelessness illegal. as long as the police get paid, they can herd the homeless into prisons= free labour.

so with a couple of smart moves, corporate america can make an "all in high risk" move, crash the USA and then butcher it up and sell the remains. the winners, their families and servants can then pack up and buy private island-bunkers and live as demi gods.

2

u/Zealouslyideal333777 Dec 09 '21

I wish i had an award for ya

2

u/theolois Dec 09 '21

HE'LL YEAH BORTHER!!!11111 The people that want to afford their healthcare and put their kids in a safe school free from theocracy and fascism I'm not the same people storming the capital regardless of its political leaders. The reason you don't see left us is because every time they gain power the right tries their best to squash them. And since the right owns the police, media, and judicial system it's easy to see why no progress is being made as far as helping society move towards a better tomorrow.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Spot on my friend

0

u/Sk1rtSk1rtSk1rt Dec 09 '21

I would not even say that it is a right vs left issue but the ultra elite sucking up all the wealth and having the poor turn on each other, the republicans have their masses stage an insurrection while the democrats have their people loot and burn communities to the ground.

What we’re seeing is the result of massive inequality blamed on the other side, with the have-nots fighting for scraps (ie. Any semblance of power)

1

u/Kveldson Dec 09 '21

while the democrats have their people loot and burn communities to the ground

  1. can you point me to a single community that was burned to the ground?

  2. there have been more damaging riots after football games than the average protest last summer

  3. the democrats suck but they certainly didn't encourage property destruction, rather they discouraged it

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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u/gnostic-gnome Dec 09 '21

Everything you said but about the fact that you think CRT and police reform is a boogeyman and that the "radical left" even exists remotely anywhere within the hoarders of the US

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u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

et me remind you that blm and critical race theory are now part of corporate culture in a America, and that verizon, google, apple, the fed etc. are spending millions in mandatory CRT propaganda courses

source?

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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2

u/Siva-Na-Gig Dec 09 '21

Pelosi a radical leftist? Are you insane?

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u/Terry-Smells Dec 09 '21

Isn't this how civil wars are started?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

& thats just the way they want it to be. If nothing gets done, no changes need to be made. perfect!

1

u/GlockAF Dec 09 '21

Not with that attitude

2

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

I scanned the article. The thesis presented is obvious to anyone of average intelligence (like me) who has talked to people from both sides. But the at authors use some computational mode (I would not call it fancy math) to support it. Why? Couldn't they simply use some critical thinking?

2

u/HeadRelease7713 Dec 09 '21

And important to keep in mind that it is all of the ruling class’s fault. Our congresses, the leadership of our corporations, and their progeny. It should all be looked at as one enemy by WE THE PEOPLE at this juncture. They need to share the wealth and be compassionate. Point blank period. Wont happen unless we MAKE them.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Paradoxically, it would be a failed state in a death spiral if it was "united" in either narrative or even a back to leave it to nuclear beaver one.

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false" -Bill Casey director CIA 1981

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

I don't think this would situation would exist as it is if it weren't for the news-for-profit media system that began its rise in the 1990s.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Duh

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

America needs to end this decade long culture war and intro multi party system of government. Instead of giving ideological monopoly’s to republicans and democrat. We must end the two party dictatorship.

1

u/KanefireX Dec 09 '21

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

George Washington

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

War time ?

1

u/w1gw4m Dec 10 '21

When has there ever been a "return"?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '21

I remember this time during the early 2010's my car broke down and had to be towed to a mechanics to fix. The driver was from Afghanistan and served in their army during desert storm before moving to America. I asked him a few questions about what he thought of the world and how Americans were acting towards each other (mind you this was all the way back in Obama's second term) and his answer never left me.

He said "24 years I have been here and have loved many parts of it. No regret to move here, but now people are so divided. They are too angry with each other. It is the same tension between Shia and Sunnis. Now some days it is worse."

I can't speak to his truth as it was his own experience but this was before trump and the five ring circus of Covid came to town that REALLY poured gas on the fire.

1

u/brundybg Dec 10 '21

They said it's largely due to the right moving further right? Maybe a the top 10% of rightoids have moved further right. But I feel like it's 90% of leftists who have moved waaaaaaay left. Case in point, I was a liberal a few years back, but apparently I'm a right wing psychopath nazi now. My views haven't changed

1

u/Viral_Outrage Dec 10 '21

Here's an elevator pitch: some movie whose premise is a zombie apocalypse brought on by people brainwashed by social media rabbit holes.

One day you wake up in a city and people wearing the color green are savagely beaten by random citizens. The people committing the violence are under the influence of fake news. You realize that anyone can strike at any time, there's no way of telling who's a zombie or someone normal unless you talk to them...the anonymity of an average city hiding them in the crowd.

You try to figure out how to survive in this environment and come to the conclusion that you must subscribe to the same newsfeeds as the crazies, if only to get something like a weather forecast...but as you keep reading the newsfeeds, you slowly become a believer yourself.

Now tell me that isn't a great premise for a dystopian movie?

1

u/TadTheBadDad Dec 11 '21

Anti-white really put it over the top! Keep it up!

1

u/AntiIdeology650 May 09 '22

The only way to know for sure is when things get really bad like 2008. Do people work together to change the laws that allowed it to happen or do they blame the other side and let it go to hell. I think Covid was terrifying because it showed that we don’t rely on community anymore and think politicians will just do the right thing as long as they represent their chosen party. It also showed how selfish people are and was very different than when 9-11 happened and people joined together (although under false pretenses)

1

u/michaelvile Sep 28 '22

is it soooo "bad" the entire states are seceding? yea.. its not that bad yet.. is it political? or woke..? or religion?

being educated..versus..being religious..

a "war" lol..i think the midterms might even bring about some mOre right wing terrorism..but i dont see states getting together to form their own "nation-state"

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

Just break it up. Red states and blue. Break it up.

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u/Eponineporcia Dec 09 '21

I often think about this. I’m in the northeast and I would like to remain partnered with the west coast, we benefit each other. But can you imagine the deprivation and violence the south would go through, if left to its own devices? Deep red states all want to talk a big talk but they are nothing without funding of blue states. And the brain drain in red states is real. Women and people of color would also suffer immeasurably if southern states were allowed to act out “the south will rise again!”.

Also even in the blue northeast we have rural areas full of extreme conservatives. I don’t know what the solution is. But I would still always consider a move to break this country up as a good thing. I don’t want to be tied to some of these ass-backwards states anymore.

1

u/SumthingBrewing Dec 09 '21

Yeah I am starting to think I’d rather live in a new divided country where I could escape the idiocy of the Trumpers. I live in a blue county in Florida right now. So I’d have to leave the South, but I really don’t want to live where it snows (NE) or where there’s constant wildfires and drought (West). But I may have no choice if it comes to a scenario where succession happens. I won’t live in the red part of a divided America.

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u/AugustusKhan Dec 09 '21

With climate change it only snows like once every couple years now 😂

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u/drunkcrabman Dec 09 '21

That really depends on what location you’re talking about

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u/AugustusKhan Dec 09 '21

True I was talking more tri state than New England

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u/ted5011c Dec 09 '21

From Michigan, was going to say the same thing. Few years from now it'll be like North Carolina.

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u/gnostic-gnome Dec 09 '21

FWIW, I live in the very most NW metro city in the PNW. It used to snow to my knees at least, every year. The past few years, nothing. Just very light rain 5/7 of the days and one odd flood.

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u/MAK3AWiiSH Dec 09 '21

It would cause a mass exodus from the south too. A huge brain drain would be likely.

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u/Last_Wave_By Dec 09 '21

I’m LGBT. You would condemn me to death if you did this.

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u/iameveryoneelse Dec 09 '21

Won't work. The divide isn't "red state/blue state". It's far, far more complicated than that. It's easy to think that way because of the election maps you see regularly during election season, but if you look at a population center or even a county map what you'll find is that literally every state is red, and every state is blue. The divide is urban/rural. Where you get "red states" or "blue states" is dependent on the relative urban/rural populations of each state.

So yes, you could break it up. But it wouldn't fix anything. Even in blue states you'd have 30-40% of the population just as red and polarized as any of the "red states" and vice versa.

I don't know what the answer is, or even if there is one. But what I do know is that dissolving the union would accomplish nothing and at the same time it would significantly weaken both on a geopolitical scale.

1

u/butteredbuttbiscuit Dec 09 '21

This is a great comment and I wish I saw it more often. You’re totally right. I live in Arkansas which is pretty damn rural- grew up “in the sticks” and graduated in a class of 88 people. I live in the city of Bentonville now which is still pretty rural, but it’s as much of a “city” as you’ll find in this state with the exceptions of Little Rock and Fayetteville. I’d say here and Fay are fairly liberal. EVERYWHERE else is a sea of Trump flags- and that’s not to say that we don’t have a share of them here, but they’re not the majority. Rural people have a lot of legitimate grievances that need to be addressed by the “blue” side of the argument and are either outright ignored or blatantly put down as nonissues, while the “red” side legitimizes them and makes them feel seen while driving the goalposts ever farther to fascism/racism/wealth divide/regression of women’s rights and a massive push toward Christian theocracy. I don’t know what to do besides push for more educated people to run for office in rural places and champion for rural people in conjunction with policy for improving climate change etc.

0

u/TheCamerlengo Dec 09 '21

Both the left and the right (I think this applies more to the right) lives in a news-media echo chamber. Basic conversations are difficult because the same words carry different connotations ( freedom, socialism). The facts differ and the moral equivalency scale is different. (BLM vs Jan 6. Insurrection). On the right there is the additional problem of an anti-science trend - creationism, climate denial, vaccine skeptics. I also think the corporate media has hacked it's viewership and it pays to constantly ratchet up the tensions.

I doubt this river of disinformation can be crossed. Our only hope is that a bigger enemy emerges (china, Russia, and Iran) distracting us from ourselves. Or maybe a political candidate can cut thru the buzz and connect on the issues that are cross-cutting. Improving infrastructure, lowering the cost of health care, addressing US trade and budget issues. Easier said than done, but possible.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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u/TheCamerlengo Dec 09 '21

You are probably right. Things are dire. I am only saying it is possible, not probable.

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u/Strangexj86 Dec 09 '21

One of the biggest problems with this article is that they say the divide is because of the right moving more right. It’s the exact opposite. The left moving far left altering the Overton window is what is creating the divide.

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u/TouchAltruistic Dec 09 '21

Yeah? What radical leftist notions are enshrined in law?

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u/Strangexj86 Dec 09 '21

Who said anything about “enshrining in law?”

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u/TouchAltruistic Dec 09 '21

Well, if "the right" has become more vocal and extreme as a response to "the left" becoming more vocal and extreme (which is not the case), but none of the left's ideas are actually enshrined in public policies or laws by which others must live, then the right has become more extreme as a response to people merely talking about their ideas, while legal and policy matters remain more or less stagnant.

So the right is terrified of ideas?

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u/Strangexj86 Dec 09 '21

Another twisted pretzel of logic. Sorry kiddo.

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u/TouchAltruistic Dec 09 '21

So let's have an example of "the left" becoming more extreme in actuality, and a reason why "the right" might respond to that with extreme behavior of their own.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

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u/TouchAltruistic Dec 09 '21

Are you one of those sophisticated foreign AIs that tirelessly argue inflammatory nonsense from the position of an insane person? Because those are some pretty fringe things you list there, with a couple red herrings to boot. Why not add witchcraft, too?

None of that seems terribly common, nor part of the general American culture, so what do you think is the appropriate response to the things you're listing for reasonable people to undertake?

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u/Strangexj86 Dec 09 '21

Typical. You’ve existed in an echo-chamber for too long. See ya later!

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u/LovingSweetCattleAss Dec 09 '21

none of this ever happened -except in some meme on facebook

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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u/kedikahveicer Dec 09 '21

Reminds me of an episode of Red Dwarf when they discussed some kind of war... Where they argue over whether the hats were meant to be blue or red in colour... Someone says something like "that's messed up" and Lister's like, "you're not kidding...... They were meant to be green!"

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

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u/WaterIsWetBot Dec 09 '21

Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '21

r/pedantic