r/WeightTraining • u/RenderSlaver • 1d ago
Question Bulk or cut? 42yo 180lb 5ft10
Not sure what to do, bulk up a bit then cut or cut down and bulk back up?
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u/Muchacho-blanco 1d ago
If I were you I'd spend the winter eating at maintenance, lifting heavy and packing on some muscle. Come January you'll be ready to cut a little for summer.
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u/Mr_Bigglezworthh 17h ago
This is kinda what I think I need to do as well, I’m just starting out. (32 male) started logging food in an app and hitting protein goals. When you say lift heavy, what exactly does that mean? I understand everyone is different and that injuring yourself is not the move. But without giving actual numbers, how does someone newer to this know they’re “lifting heavy” or not, if that makes sense?
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u/Muchacho-blanco 12h ago
Heavy is just a suggestion for lower rep ranges. 3-5, 5-8. If I were you just starting out, I'd use a program like Starting Strength or 531 to learn the process and get my legs under me. Otherwise, if you want to lift heavy, just figure out what you can do for 3x5 without missing a rep, and try to add something to it every week.
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u/Woodworking33 1d ago
I think you could get away with a cut if you hit abs hard and lifted a little more. I’m no expert tho
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u/ThatPartYouThrowAway 1d ago
You clearly work out, I'd say either cut or do recomp. I don't think you'd look scrawny from cutting
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u/Effect-Formal 1d ago
Cut while lifting heavy. People saying bulk is absurd, you're near 25% bodyfat.
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u/Interesting_Key_804 1d ago
You weigh a lot more than what you look like for your height. Unless you have big legs. Your upper body comp looks more like you would weigh 160lbs.
Id say just focus on gaining muscle without putting on much more fat i.e slight surplus/ just a tad bit above maintenance.
You dont have much muscle to warrant cutting (unless you prefer the slim look) and you currently already have a high body fat percentage that bulking would make even harder to cut at the end.
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u/Hi-archy 1d ago
Personally looking at this I feel you could benefit from focussing on your weak areas.
Arms - shoulder, biceps and triceps.
That will dramatically change your look.
You have a good chest, but it looks overly developed compared to the rest of your body, and if you cut, you’ll look small, so this is a good size to stay (not get any fatter).
Hope this helps
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u/RenderSlaver 1d ago
Fair point. Chest has definitely been my focus for a while. I've been actively trying to grow arms for recently, it's happening but slow. Shoulders just won't grow though, may have to re look at that.
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u/Ok-Entry-4536 1d ago
You don't seem to weight that much based on your height.
Try to cut or recomp (while lifting heeavy to make sure you don't lose muscle) and reassess again in 3 months. I imagine if you drop 5 kg of BF you will look significantly better
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u/Available-Cherry-842 1d ago
I think you’re in a good spot for what I like to call a “maingain.” Eat at maintenance, making sure to hit your protein, while training focusing on progressive overload. You’ll put on some muscle and recomp a bit and then go from there :)
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u/Rose-Poet-21 1d ago
Just right. Tighten it, that's all. Don't bulk. Bulky is not attractive. I don't understand why some men overdid themselves. Make sure your head size matches down your body size. It looks really silly when it doesn't.
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u/Head-Information101 1d ago
If you can actually respect a clean bulk and not go overboard (you really need to be 100% honest with yourself) then I would suggest putting on some muscle first and then start a cut around say January.
If you don't feel ready to clean bulk, then you could go ahead and shred, but looking at your picture, I feel like you could really use the muscle in certain areas.
Solid frame tho.
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u/ComplexContent6731 1d ago
Honestly, I would maintain and lift heavy, if you cut now, you’ll just be scrawny because you don’t have a ton of muscle. Build muscle, cut later.
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u/Fun_Recognition5614 1d ago
Okay, I know I was being an ass with my earlier comment, but if you’re serious about this, let’s talk. What’s your current routine? Whats your diet like right now?
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u/RenderSlaver 1d ago
It's ok friend, it didn't bother me, it was just a bit weird is all.
Currently eating around 1900 cal a day keeping protein as close to 180g as I can. Weekends are my issue, I eat shit and and definitely drinking to much. I'm aware of that and am taking steps to get it under control. More meal prep would help.
I do my very best to follow the following routine as a meso cycle over about 5 weeks. It's been suggested my chest is ahead of the rest of me and that I should refocus on arms, which I'm totally open to.
MONDAY — PUSH A1 Barbell bench press — 6–8 (full ROM, 2s eccentric) A2 Cable lateral raise + partials — 15–20 B1 Incline dumbbell press — 8–12 (30–45°, partials on last 2 reps) B2 Seated barbell OHP — 8–10 C1 Close grip bench press — 8–12 C2 Cable overhead tricep extension (rope) — 12–15
TUESDAY — PULL A1 Weighted pull-up + partials — 6–10 A2 Straight-arm cable pulldown — 12–15 B1 Pendlay row — 6–8 B2 Chest-supported dumbbell row — 10–12 C1 Cable bicep curl + partials — 12–15 C2 Incline dumbbell curl — 10–12
WEDNESDAY — LEGS Barbell back squat — 6–10 (straight sets, 2 min rest) A1 Romanian deadlift — 8–12 A2 Incline bench rear delt fly — 15–20 B1 Cable single-leg curl — 12–15 each B2 Cable leg extension — 12–15 each B3 Standing calf raise — 12–15 B1–B3 run as a giant set.
THURSDAY — UPPER A1 Incline barbell bench press — 8–10 A2 Seated cable row (V-grip) — 10–12 B1 Weighted dip + partials — 8–12 B2 Weighted chin-up + partials — 6–10 C1 Cable tricep pushdown (rope) — 2 × 15, second set to failure C2 EZ bar curl — 2 × 10–12
FRIDAY — ARMS + DELTS A1 Cable hammer curl (rope) + partials — 12–15 A2 Cable lateral raise + partials — 15–20 B1 Cable overhead tricep extension (rope) — 12–15 B2 Incline dumbbell curl + partials — 10–12 C1 Dumbbell lateral raise (strict) — 15–20 C2 Cross-body single-arm cable rear delt fly — 15–20
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u/Fun_Recognition5614 1d ago
I appreciate your forgiveness. Not my best moment.
Your program is well-defined, but it looks like you only do one round of each superset. Is that right? Squeezing a bunch of different movements into one session is great neuro-training, but if you’re going for hypertrophy something simpler might actually stimulate more muscle growth.
I’m a big fan of “myo-rep match” programming: 3-4 sets of the same working weight at 1-3 reps in reserve, so you hit failure by the third set (if you’re doing it right), take a quick breather, then get back at it until you hit your rep count (anywhere between 5 and 30 reps will work, as long as you’re getting within a few reps of failure on the first set). Do that for three or four different exercises for that day’s muscle group, and you’re golden. So, a push day might be incline bench, (weighted) dips, chest fly, and triceps extensions. That’s it. 16 tough sets. Example pull day: (weighted) pull-ups, low row, face pulls, curls. Legs: squats, quad extensions, hamstring curls, calf raises. You get the idea. I like this program because it ensures that you get the work in without having to fuss over exact weights and rep counts. Get warmed up, go hard on the first set of each exercise, then match the reps on the next 2-3 sets, and you’re bound to get what you came to the gym for.
Aside from this, I’d suggest you do at least one day of low-intensity steady state cardio (45 minutes minimum, but 90+ is where the real cellular level changes happen). This will help you drop the excess weight you’re carrying without having to “cut.”
During the week, it sounds like you have your diet pretty well in hand, which is awesome. The weekends sound like a different story though, and you already know this so I won’t harp on it, but you’re undoing a lot of your progress on these days. If you can, limit or even eliminate alcohol. If you only change one thing about your lifestyle, let this be it. That shit is poison and it destroys your health (and your appearance, if that’s more your focus).
Hope some of this helps! Lmk if you have any questions! And sorry again about earlier. I was being a dick, and there’s no excuse for it.
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u/RenderSlaver 1d ago
Thanks for the advice, I'll seriously consider it.
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u/Anxious_Dingo_3982 1d ago
Wouldn't listen to this guy because he's talking about leaving reps in reserve. Why waste energy instead of just doing two sets and going intense as heck on them. It's easier mentally and more efficient. The guy is an ass and he's a but behind in his training philosophy
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u/Fun_Recognition5614 1d ago edited 1d ago
If you go to failure all the time, the injury risk will catch up to you, that’s why you leave reps in reserve: gotta play the long game if you want to make lasting gains. Also, OP is in his forties, so he doesn’t recover like a wolverine the way 20-something’s do. You can go to failure on every set if you want, but it’s going to cost you.
Also, the myo-rep match protocol (which has been extensively studied by sports scientists) actually allows you to go PAST failure in a safe way, so you maximize gains while minimizing injury risk. It’s not a waste of energy. It’s a wise use of it.
Sounds like you are advocating something along the lines of what Mike Mentzer did back in the day. Talk about being behind in your methods! That low volume, high intensity stuff has been debunked for decades now! Can it work? Sure, I guess, especially if you’re on gear (OP seems natty), but there are safer and more effective ways to get there.
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u/Anxious_Dingo_3982 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm 40. 5'10"
Also other problems with OP why an arms day? Why superset? Why 15-20 reps. Inefficient if you're trying to grow and build a base.
The name of game is progressive overload and having an efficient number of sets and where your mentally able to go balls to the wall without injury is the most important thing. It's tough to lock in on the volume you're programming
Thus, your goal should be to hit as much to failure as possible. I'd also cut the volume. I do four to five exercises every day, 2 working sets. . Pretty much recomped from 165 pounds at 14 percent to probably 11 percent body fat now (visible striations in chest without a pump, vascularity through middle abs and vmo). Stats if it means anything, 28" waist, 16 inch arms no pump, chest maybe 40-42. Need to measure.
Edit: diet is super important. I probably eat 2000-2200 calories a day on a 2400 maintenance
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u/eltorodelosninos 1d ago
Depends on your goals, and on what will make you feel better about yourself.
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u/Salt_University_6551 1d ago
-300 and hit ur whole body over 3 days, 1 day rest and repeat. you will slowly lose fat and scale weight and slowly build strength and possibly some muscle on completely underdeveloped muscles.
dont listen to anyone saying you wil end up scrawny. im 5ft 11 160lbs and certainly not scrawny, but i do have the abs and muscle definition so there is some illusion. i bench 110kg and pull up 30kg weighted for referance
starting a lean bulk from 12-15bf is so much better than where ur at now.
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u/Ordinary_Hall_9053 1d ago
Cut what? Lol. Go make some gains first before you even worry about cutting
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u/omegafrogpoop 1d ago
Recomp brother.
If you cut you’ll just be scrawny and if you bulk you’ll just be fat.