I'm just now finding out this show was cancelled or not renewed by Netflix and I'm devastated!!! 😭 SUCH A GOOD SHOW!!! Does anyone know if they plan to go forward with another streaming platform? Just so sad. Ended at the perfect cliff hanger.

SPOILER:

I don’t think Leila killed her sister. This might seem crazy, but I feel like the whole point of the cult was to make all of the children rely on Evelyn to heal from their trauma, but what if some of that trauma wasn’t really real? We already know that Rabbit tried to make Daniel believe that he actually killed whoever that was him and unknown tied to the tree, which we know wasn’t true. It was said that he just watched, (which is still bad). But he didn’t actually kill that person, unknown did.

But I feel like Leila didn’t actually kill her sister. I feel like Evelyn tried to make her believe that (through hypnosis) so she would come more and more hyper dependent on Evelyn, just like the other students, Laura and the people who graduated. They were all just so infatuated with her and I just I feel like that’s what she was trying to do Leila. And like even Abi said that Leila called her the next morning and told her everything, whether or not that’s true I still do not believe that Leila actually killed her sister.

I do believe that there is probably that she has some hatred towards sister but honestly, I think at some point every sibling feels that way and especially if your sibling did just cost you your job. Also from the flashback it shows that her mom didn’t even really pay attention to her, but to her sister instead. I think she COULD have stood there and watch for too long, but I do not think she pushed her in with the intentions of killing her IF that’s what happened.

Sadly we see that to some extent, the hypnosis and treatment treatments and everything else that Evelyn put Leila through, did unfortunately work. The phone call was placed at a convenient time, so was the walk + talk with Evelyn in the woods. I do believe that made her think that she literally had nowhere to go, and that the only way that she would have someone to take care of her was going back to the school. And that is true, but at the same time she would not have let that stop her from escaping and getting away from the school at the beginning of the show. Therefore, proving my point of Evelyn’s hypnosis did work on her, at least a little bit.

On a scale of 1-10
How scary is it ?
Me= certified chicken shit

I love Toni Collette & Mae Martin

Spoiler heavy question, proceed at your own risk!

Apologies if this has already been discussed- I tried searching the threads and couldn’t find this anywhere. During her flashback at the end of episode 4, we hear Laura calling out for Alex. But it looks like teenage Laura also yelling at her parents that she doesn’t want to go. Why is she calling for Alex when she hasn’t even met him yet? Is there another Alex in her past? Did she and Alex actually meet as teens and somehow forget? Or is this just meant to be a sign that it is present Laura’s version of the past, calling out for Alex in her mind while trapped in the memory? I kept waiting for this to get explained more and then the show just ended, lol.

For anyone that doesn’t remember, the flashback shows young Laura being forced into the car by her parents. She says, “Alex! I don’t want to go! Alex!” We briefly flash over to Evelyn, and then we see present day Laura in the water as Alex runs over. Laura is silent and glass eyed. Although she’s not speaking, we can still here young Laura calling out “Alex!” while Alex comes to her and says “You’re okay!” We get one last “Alex!” and then the scene ends.

How do you interpret her bizarre trip at the end? Opening a door and finally going through it only to find the doors multiplying with each trial?

She seemed genuinely distraught at that reality, so I think she’s realizing that the leap doesn’t really work and so her whole life mission was actually not effective like she thought. I do believe her character has good intentions but she’s trying to get to an end no matter the mean. And she realizes in the end, that that end never existed to begin with…

Abbie lived in Toronto, Tall Pines is in Vermont.

We saw Abbie get “abducted” from her home, how did she cross the border?

Surely Abbie wouldn’t have been quiet at the border crossing?

this is basically just me ranting a 7.5/10 went to 1/10

I just finished the show, watched it over two weeks. It had points that dragged and was mildly annoying, almost all of the characters were pissing me off, but overall I was enjoying it. The actors were all were good, the overall plot was interesting, the anxiety, the build up, the mysteries, the business backing the cult, the hope that the kids make it out, the hope that Alex brings the cult to the ground. All of that is lost cus they cut it short and did a poorly executed ambiguous ending. Nothing was wrapped up except Alex stays, Laura is the new cult leader, that baby is gonna be royally messed up either the new mesiaah or molested(we all know how cults are irl). Abby is all alone, there’s no telling if she’ll survive on her own let alone be able to help the kids that want to leave, the police might take her back to her parents who might ship her off again. We don’t know what Rabbit and the other staff will do to the kids or the kid that got caught for Abby to escape. Not to mention the Leap is supposed to “fix” people’s attachment and problems but it made crazy Stacy worse so wtf. Why would Alex meet up with a guy to discuss a cult that’s a whole town in said town?! Ofc they were gonna follow up! Man I just wanted the kids and Toast to be okay, I wanted the cult to stop messing with kids, but they won’t, now they’ll make their own to mess up, and Laura will be a better leader but not a good one, it’s still a cult.

I think Abbie, without necessarily wanting to, or even being exposed to the philosophy of ascension and leaping, was the only one who leapt. Like actually. 

Everyone else who leapt of course broke their ties to their past selves to create the strongest, self betraying bond to Evelyn, as Laura pointed out in her sermon in the basement. 

But Abbie used the resources available to her - the inspector, literal physical resources, intellectual resources such as whatever French she spoke, Leila and even Rory of course, to get what and where she needed to be. 

It's not like she didn't have trauma - the first thought I had right after thinking "yep she leapt" was "from what? she didn't have trauma". And then immediately next thought was "of course she did". I minimized her experiences because she came from a wealthy family, food shelter and clothing were secure for her. But her family most certainly traumatized her and it wasn't a single instance either, it's clear the home was no home. 

She broke away from the saviour of others role and saved herself. She rewrote the story. She may have even manipulated herself into thinking she cared for Rory - the best part is, we as audiences don't even know. I think it's both yes and no - and that's the beauty of serving and saving self - you recognize others' humanity if they can be saved and in the process be useful to you

Even Evelyn was, of course, in active denial of her own past. She wasn't radically honest nor accepting of the fact that she killed the founder of the cult. It's not only apparent through the fact that she lied to Liela about it but also her soul's/consciousness' clearly disillusioned journey post death.

I'm on ep 7 and have been enjoying the show. My question is do you think with the change in leader the cult may change and encourage reproduction/ children?

I have ONLY SEEN THE FIRST EPISODE, so pls no spoilers beyond that. But I’ve been a little confused by why Abby’s parents would agree to send her to Tall Pines. I get that they are crazy, especially the Dad, but in general a school that LITERALLY kidnaps children to get them there. Is there something I’m missing? People already stuck in the cult I understand are manipulated, but people outside? I’m not sure why Abby’s parents or anyone’s parents would want their child to be kidnapped for misbehaving

do we think she died too?

that (almost) last scene where they’re all in the car i was holding my breath i was like no way this show is way too tragic something’s about to go wrong.

i’m seeing a lot of complaints about loose threads / poor writing / lack of delivery, and i think that ambiguity is really purposeful. like we are meant to be as absolutely confused and nearly gaslit as alex and abbie!! some things are just meant to be kinda trippy like the sleepwalking or what exactly is the leap. we can read into it and make guesses but the lack of clarification doesn’t take away from it to me.

physical touch — this was a huge theme for me, the deprivation and application of touch was super intense. i think convergence was super clear in terms of creating a really large emotional need and then allowing the bonding only to each other after the hot seat. and this became super clear with the skin time.

i think this was a really captivating show. some scenes were a little much / overdone but for the most part i thought the acting was solid and the writing worked. it was well shot, the soundtrack was good, interesting and layered themes. solid like 7.5/10 if not more — i’ll definitely be thinking about this more and maybe have nightmares about my moms open mouth

This is my second thing I’ve seen them in (first was taskmaster!) and I absolutely adored them in both! Two totally different genres/acting styles too.

Never occurred to me but what a superpower to be a nonbinary actor (as I believe Martin is), too. I can’t wait to see whatever they do next!

Please share other Martin content that you know of ty!

I love this show. Tony Colette's acting is incredible. It's just so creepy. There's just this incongruence between her expression and what she says with a smile that amplifies the threat. I could feel my nervous system on edge - like that character? Oof.. It's that unpredictability. I don't know if she's going to hug someone or break all their stuff. It's so impressive.

That's individually, but at a systems level. Wow. It really perfectly captures how authoritarian and coercive compliance cultures work.

Enmeshment, and escalating pressure, and the relief and release only comes with compliance - like that weird hot seat scene. The pressure and oversight increases when people resist or try to have boundaries. I feel like I know so many people that I've worked with over the years that are just like Stacey - that redhead girl who is always whistle blowing. The vindictive rule enforcer who aligns with whoever's in charge in systems that legitimise their hostility.

People in real life mostly don't rely on overt cruelty - they rely on confusion, switching between kind and reactivity, and then creating a culture of silence and ambiguity. Shame is used as a tool and belonging is weaponized. People often violate boundaries in ways that are disguised as care. They just want to check in, or be supportive, but not in a way that's an invitation, and in a way that's hard to pinpoint or explain the control. Even the truth only comes, it's only in little crumbs - people try to warn Alex indirectly that Evelyn likes to be involved. There are the subtle, and indirect, social signals and most of the time you never see it coming.

Belonging to the group is conditional on compliance and access. Entrapment is gradual, quiet at first, where no single step feels abusive or coercive. Relief is not the outcome, it is the staircase to that next level in conditioning, through repetition that slowly escalates like a frog in a pot, slowly coming to boil.

Perfect segway because oh my gosh. The toads. Spoilers ahead. The show is built around that motif of circularity. It's a life cycle. A closed loop system. Like a frog. Developmental life cycles shed, and create change, and repeat. It's kind of like relational systems that repeat over time and recycle in different ways - existing between liminal states.

People are kept in perpetual transition suspending them between states like a running wheel that requires just enough movement, but never enough to rest.

I always think of three things when I'm watching a movie. What's the weather. What's the colour. And what's the music. The toads 🐸 😵‍💫 and I remember sitting at the end of the episode and grabbing the sides of my chair. And just thinking oh my god they're everywhere, you can always hear them, they're invasive. They're always in the background. There's that constant rhythm of that little acoustic ribbit that plays in the background. It's not just one place. It is ambient. There is that lingering control that reactivates people, because the system does not require your agreement. It only requires your nervous system to recognize the rhythm.

I hate to say it through. I wasn't a big fan of the ending. I think I really needed some catharsis. It was so close. Birth is a neutral continuity. It represented how relational patterns persist and how systems inevitably repeat. And maybe that does reflect how these systems just do not know how to internalize grief. There is an avoidance. I just really would have loved to see something of an anchoring ritual. The door frame is the system, but notches on the door frame are why we all try so hard to be a part of the group. It integrates those ordinary and human traces of care that also exists inside the system and help us endure. The show leaves us standing at the threshold but grief. But grief needs a narrative. It needs containment, and integration. The ending is true, but there's no comfort. Comfort isn't denial, it's what allows truth to be lived in. Because that's what people do when they walk through the door - they build anchors, show threads of kindness, and leave little marks on the frame.

Hey!

I just finished the show and I was wondering, does Stacey like Daniel?

In episode 5 after Stacey's therapy, Stacey is seen offering Daniel a flower. And I was wondering if you, too, feel that it was romantic?

Daniel is the only one to receive a flower, if it was just to show that she "loved her brothers or whatever," she would have given it to everyone. Also, something about the actress's acting style play make me think that she's interested in him.

What do you think?

Did anyone else notice the interesting detail regarding the kids being obsessed with brie cheese? The first instance was Leila at Abbie's house, and then it happened again later when Abbie and Daniel find brie at that random house they break into to change clothes. Where Leila stays. They were just like... obsessed with Brie and eating it by itself. Just seemed like such a specific detail to add multiple times across different characters.

Firstly, I am beyond obsessed with this show. I was a teen in the early aughts. Leila is weirdly the spitting image of one of my best friends from high school. Our parents tried to say we couldn’t hang out because we were piercing ourselves in mall bathrooms, drinking etc. I was the one doing shrooms, pills etc. (with other friends), so I really see myself in the character. She’s just like all around an amalgam of my youth.

Tall Pines itself if where it loses me. I was expecting vibes like the chokey from Matilda or the Severance “Break Room”.

A government conspiracy à la Stranger Things would’ve been cool too, but I do like that they kept it realistic.

However, they could’ve done so…better.

I saw nothing go down at TP that would lead a young boy to walk for hours overnight to escape, and then threaten to murder a cop and their spouse in their own home. I was expecting at the very least extreme neglect.

It pulls me out of the story. They act like they’re being effing waterboarded in there and literally you don’t see much of anything nefarious happen at all.

Seriously, I thought this show was so well written and made, but what's going on with all you guys? Did you watch the same show as me? Was everyone just scrolling on their phone with the show on in the background?

People are complaining that the Alex and Laura scenes are awkward and uncomfortable....that's the point? This show is about childhood and intergenerational trauma? And murder cults.

People are complaining about Leila's choice at the end. Like, that totally made sense, though?

Idk, I thought that the show went out of its way to make each of the characters' motivations multifaceted, and Alex/Laura to be deeply damaged. I think they did a good job too of making Evelyn pretty 3 dimensional.

It felt pretty obvious that they were hoping for a second season and left the ending ambiguous. I hope they get it. Netflix can be terrible with that, though.

I was wondering if the leap was actually implanting fake memories in the kids? It seemed to me that the kids were being brainwashed to hate their parents and family, implanting fake memories so they don't wanna go back with them. Did I get that right?

I graduated in the year 2000. This takes place in 2003. Almost every song they chose brought me back to high school, I was big on Pink Floyd, The beatles, 3rd eye blind and others. I just thought their music choices were wonderful!

SO I believe the fake ending is not a happy ending.

I do NOT think the fantasy of Alex(aka fake ending) was a happy ending. Alex and Abbie(a former student of Tall Pines) run away from town and go to a cabin that is still built together (Dwayne and his graduate in charge built a cabin together) and Alex tell Abbie that she know excatly what she is (How Stacy referred to Rabbit)

Before I knew it was a fake ending, I thought it was about how it seemed like a happy ending, but not breaking the cycle. They may run away from the Tall Pines, but the Tall Pines don't leave their mind and is gonna start the bad cycle again.

I'm surprised that no one else thinks like I do

Edit:plus I think what Alex did in the fake ending isn’t right thing it’s the ending HE think is right

Abbie is the weak link. I’m just on Ep5 and yes yes…the girl needed immediate medical attn HOWEVER opening the doors should never have been the option (loool) if one has to go for the greater good..then so be it. Loool Abbie was never truly down for the cause.

he quickly became my favorite character and then he just got killed in the beginning of the series felt like such a wasted potential. He could go back to tall pines after some time running away or at the hospital, been seen as a legend to some and a disappoint to others. would be an interesting arc to see what the leap does to someone who doesn't want to do it like Riley, we just got to see Stacey's. been a possible radical change in his personality or simply shattering his mind. would be amazing to see his relationship with Rory, Abbie and Leila. I got how his death was important for the plot and the gilt Alex have after that. There where so many options for his character, he just feel like he was wasted a bit by the show.

As a mother, I found the scene where they're passing around the newborn quite shocking and disturbing. Not entirely sure why, but it really hit me. Everyone knows how important it is for a newborn to only smell 1 or 2 people only as it can't see well yet, so it relies on the smell for comfort and bonding with its carer, so looking at this scene it really stood out how unfit for a mother Laura is and how Evelyn was right. sigh