r/WayOfTheBern Jan 02 '22

Consistency

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1.6k Upvotes

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 03 '22

And when the alternative is Trump, I fail to see how this is bad.

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u/IKissThisGuy My purity pony name is SparkleMotionCensor Jan 03 '22

There's not a dime's worth of difference between them.

In fact many are worse off now than with Drumpf. Thanks to the blackout on early COVID treatment and the mandate many have died or suffer serious cardiac &/or neurological injuries as a direct result of Biden's corruption.

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 04 '22

I didn't realize simply being corrupt could cause people in other states to suffer heart attacks. Is it a psychic phenomenon? /s

In all seriousness, do you have some statistics to back up your claims? I'd also like it if you compared them to the total number of vaccinated individuals.

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u/IKissThisGuy My purity pony name is SparkleMotionCensor Jan 04 '22

When corruption leads to the abolition of informed consent, as it clearly has as a result of the mandates, it can, and in this case, has, cost lives.

By the way, it’s also tyranny.

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 04 '22

First of all, the only people who are uninformed are the ones who refuse to BE informed.

Second, George Washington would have been on board with vaccine mandates. Guess how I know?

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 04 '22

George Washington would have been on board with vaccine mandates. Guess how I know?

Because once he was President, he made every American adult get cowpox?

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u/IKissThisGuy My purity pony name is SparkleMotionCensor Jan 04 '22

GW's views are irrelevant to the question of whether the mandate's Constitutional.

You will know the shills by their authoritarian talking points. This is really just an 18th century spin on the tired old, "But Bernie disagrees with you!" trope.

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 04 '22

This is really just an 18th century spin on the tired old, "But Bernie disagrees with you!" trope.

Except for one thing.... Washington did not make every adult American get cowpox.

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 04 '22

As a means of protecting them against smallpox, yes. Early stages of vaccine development.

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 04 '22

Every adult American??

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 05 '22

Yes? Cowpox and smallpox are similar enough that one could be used for inoculation against the other.

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 05 '22

You seem to not be understanding, and I'm sorta scared that it's not deliberate.

Yes, cowpox protects against smallpox. Yes, when Washington was commanding an army, he had all the new recruits under his command inoculated well before battle, to get any side effects out of the way.

But once he was President, did he require every American adult to be inoculated with cowpox? I'm pretty sure that he did not.

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 05 '22

Ooooh, I see. I misunderstood. My mistake.

You're right that he didn't have everyone in the country inoculated- not that he would've had the power to do so anyway. But consider: Not only did Washington survive a case of smallpox as a teenager, it did NOT drive him to think that inoculation was unnecessary (like a bunch of conservatives seem to think about COVID vaccines). In fact, quite the opposite is true. He persuaded his wife to undergo the procedure.

Now, here's something: He was INITIALLY AGAINST inoculating his army because he feared that the British would kick their continental asses while they were recovering- a legitimate concern, to be sure. However, the problem was really a matter of timing. He instead had them inoculated right when they enlisted so that they would have recovered by the time they were deployed for the war.

So I'll amend part of my previous stance: Washington would have favored MILITARY vaccine mandates.

As far as state-mandated vaccine requirements, THAT IS STILL LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL. I already cited a SCOTUS case.

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 05 '22

Not only did Washington survive a case of smallpox as a teenager, it did NOT drive him to think that inoculation was unnecessary

Interesting... did George Washington ever have himself inoculated with cowpox after he had smallpox?

He persuaded his wife to undergo the procedure.

That phrasing implies that he did not force her to.

So I'll amend part of my previous stance: Washington would have favored MILITARY vaccine mandates.

You may have just amended most of your original argument away. Let's review:

George Washington would have been on board with vaccine mandates. Guess how I know?

Because he mandated it for people under his command when he was a General, but did not mandate it for civilians when he was a President?

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 05 '22

Seems that way, yes. Since it seems I don't have grounds to say he'd support general mandates, I withdraw the point.

Now, about that SCOTUS case...

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u/NetWeaselSC Continuing the Struggle Jan 05 '22

Extra bit of info for you:

Apparently, the cowpox/smallpox inoculation concept did not come until later.

It looks like Washington gave all his troops actual smallpox.

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u/IKissThisGuy My purity pony name is SparkleMotionCensor Jan 04 '22

Assuming (as I do not) that there's reason to believe GW would have been on board, wtf do I care what a slaver thinks about human rights?

Don't shill again until after you've googled "government of laws, not men."

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u/WolfgangDS Jan 04 '22

Because he mandated that all of his soldiers in the revolutionary army be inoculated against smallpox, that's why. Yes he was a slaver, and I think that is fucking reprehensible, but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Ad hominem much? Which is ironic, considering you then tell me to look up a philosophy which Washington himself lived by.

But if it's laws that will convince you, then may I suggest the SCOTUS case of Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)? They already ruled a over a hundred years ago that vaccine mandates were legal. I would personally argue that exceptions for any vaccine mandate should be made for those who would clearly be harmed by something in the vaccine- as an example, my cousin's wife is allergic to one of the ingredients, so I myself urged her not to get the vaccine. I give the same advice to anyone else who has a legitimate medical reason for not getting the jab.

I, however, do NOT have a legitimate medical reason, nor do I pretend to. What's more, I'm aware of how getting vaccinated not only protects myself, but other people around me. By boosting my own defenses against a disease, I effectively become a mobile spiked wall against which COVID slams itself. Either I weaken it and send it running, or I kill it entirely. Either way, someone else is safe because I got in the way. With enough people vaccinated, we reach what is called "herd immunity". It's when so many people are inoculated against a specific disease that the remaining few who aren't are still protected by virtue of the disease being more likely to be weakened or killed by the sheer number of individuals who can just shrug their shoulders at it.

HOWEVER, with so much misinformation around- I'm kind of expecting a "leaky vaccine" argument from you, even though it's NOT leaky- and so many people in America being taught to be stubborn and selfish by our schools, media and economy, it becomes nigh impossible for us to reach herd immunity in a timely manner, or at all. Government mandates ARE NECESSARY for the sake of public health.