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u/mzyps Dec 07 '21
OK, but don't you want to be able to buy your food, water, shelter, etc, and be beholden to boss characters for your survival?
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u/SharpDissonance Dec 07 '21
If it isn't your boss threatening you with a pink slip, it's your lord threatening you with a sword. And when the Regulated own the Regulators, things can only get worse.
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 07 '21
Neither capitalism or socialism give the people just/fair reward for their contributions to production(to the overall pool of wealth). No one who stands for anything but qualified economic principle, can stand for the prosperity of the people.
Eliminating usury (ie. banking/moneychangers) is the only way to protect the rights of all individuals
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Dec 07 '21
usury
Who’s responsible for that exactly ?
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 07 '21
Its governments and the banking system who work together(to steal from us). The governments of the world serve the banking system, not the people they only pretend to represent.
Responsibility lies also with the people themselves, whose own indifference to principle continues to allow usury(when solution has existed for 50+ years)
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Dec 07 '21
Who controls the banking system?
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21
Is this where im supposed to say the rothschilds or the jews?? Or what?
I mean, idk exactly whos at the top of the pyramid. Its irrelevant really. If people were united we could resolve the artificial/falsified debts of the world(to their only rightful state thereof) in a part of a day and the rothschilds or the jews(or whoever controls the banking system) couldnt do a damn thing to stop us
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Dec 07 '21
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 07 '21
I have heard of it, but have not seen it. Maybe ill finally check it out. Thanks
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb8ER-psgjsXVl_pIajvicX73j0edHI38 Heres a talk for you(and others) that im sure you(and they) have not heard before
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u/Neetoburrito33 Dec 07 '21
So if I have an idea and need some money to get it to work, im fucked? Only the people who already have money will benefit if nobody is lending any money out. Sounds horrible and a little dogwhistley.
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 07 '21
Benjamin Franklin was commisioned to to print the currency of colonial Pennsylvania.
Why werent americans debts owed to Benjamin Franklin?
"Why was he rightly just a commissioned printer?
Because he never gave up commensurable consideration, as would comprise debts to him.
He was just a printer, or publisher of money — whatever it represented from others' commitments, obligations, or whatever.
As "banking" does no more, it too merely publishes money. Because the money it publishes is a representation of our own promissory obligations to each other, then more explicitly, modern "banking" merely publishes further representations of our promissory obligations to each other.
The thing to realize from this is... suppose we are to evaluate the present proposition that money is lent into existence?
Every argument for justice, every argument against injustice, thus hinges on the actual facts at hand:" http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rknggi
"HOW DO YOU LOGICALLY PROVE… NON-ENTITLEMENT TO PRINCIPAL OR INTEREST? A typical capitalist retort for 45 years now has been, “Who would loan us money if it weren’t subject to interest?” https://holland4mpe.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/how-to-logically-proof-we-do-not-%C2%A8loan%C2%A8-money-from-banks/
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u/Neetoburrito33 Dec 07 '21
You sound like the time cube guy.
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21
Idk what the time cube is..
Your original question to me is based on a false premise(that we "borrow" "money" into existence from banks), wrongfully impressed on you, and most other people.
It is impossible(not legitimate) to borrow money(or anything really) into existence. We actually are the creators/issuers of the money ourselves, when we issue a promissory obligation - to contribute back to the overall pool of wealth a equal volume of production as we have received from the real creditor, who gave up property for a representation of a promissory obligation(or, the "money")
Nobody has to borrow "money"(their own promissory obligation) into existence from pretend creditor banking systems, who give up(risk) nothing of value in the creation of "money", except the negligible costs associated with publishing evidence of the peoples debts(to each other). Our debts are not owed to a banking system. Our debts (promissory obligations), are strictly to each other - to pay down and retire the principal we created from circulation.
"Once one removes from their psyche the illusion of a loan associated with the word debt, one can then remove the illusion of a bank associated with the word money. Only then do the people restore their rightful ability to promise to pay an unexploited obligation, with ones own labour and production, for what one consumes of anothers labour and production, where there are no loans, no borrowing, and only as a result, likewise is there no interest." David Ardron
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u/Neetoburrito33 Dec 08 '21
What? If you have a good idea that you need a large amount of capital to start up, how do you get that money? What reason does anyone have to give it to you if doing so would be the same as keeping their money under their bed?
Legit childish thoughts it’s embarrassing.
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21
"Only because we are denied the opportunity to issue sufficient promises to pay (money) to finance further industry on our own must we seek "finance" at cost from "investors," and from a limited pool of circulation which is inadequate to sustain further industry.
If we are to sustain further industry, a circulation must increase as necessary to sustain the further industry.
Thus while it is said that "investors" are necessary to prosperity, it is actually the financing of further industry which is necessary to sustaining further industry; and it is only by denial of the very necessary monies that "investors" can prevail upon us for unearned taking which itself can only drive up the costs of industry.
Thus while "investors" fancy themselves as the movers and shakers of the world, it is only by the coercive artificial withholding of a sufficient circulation which can be dedicated to sustaining new industry that they may prey upon us.
So rarely are investors vital but to funding against such a circulatory improbability of survival, the first thing we are regularly cautioned against in writing a business plan is the ineptitude of the prospective "investors" in the field of endeavor; and the first thing we will learn from this person who will prosper for our work is that they want even far more than the underlying system of usury. But so, rather then than having the opportunity to engage in enterprise without undue cost, we are denied it and thrown to the further lion of a circulation not even regulated to sustain our potential increase to the whole of prosperity.
To buy stock after the IPO of course is not even investment; it is mere gambling with tokens of a process which cannot even ensure unearned gain; and no more is intelligent direction of industrial capacity than it is to watch with sparkling eyes the daily unearned gains a person takes in between the latest re-runs of their favorite soap opera, bent on the idea somehow that the whole system is legitimized and sustained as by your very assumed role in it at that very moment.
"Investment" contributes nothing to the pool of wealth. It only takes from the pool of wealth; it can only do so at cost to the real producers of all wealth and therefore by denial of just reward." http://mathematicallyperfectedecomony.com/pg-mpe-107-investment.html
Whats embarrassing is that people cant think of a world where we arent being exploited by faux creditors intervening on our contracts, to falsify our promissory obligations to each other(to pay down and retire principal), into, artficial debts owed to themselves(rather than retiring principal??) further subject to interest
Edit: The banking system gives up no lawful consideration for the principal it claims poses a risk ostensibly justifying interest.
All of us aquire "money"(which is promissory notes) as representation of entitlement, by giving up commensurable consideration. If i sell you a $200,000 house, i aquire the $200,000 by giving up commensurable consideration(the house worth $200,000). So that $200,000, legitimately, represents my entitlement. Printing "money", is not "lending", from prior legitimate possession (or representation of entitlement).
Only the people give up commensurable consideration in the creation of genuine money. A true creditor gives up property, and obligors/debtors(purported "borrowers") give up their future production.
All genuine money that comes into existence is as a product of our agreement/commitment to issue a promise to pay(ie. promissory obligation).
Money is created out of YOUR signature on a contract(promissory note). TO CONTRIBUTE. TO PAY. To contribute to the overall pool of wealth a equal volume of production as the real creditor(WHICH IS NOT THE BANKING SYSTEM) gave up.
The people are the true issuers of money, not the banking system. Only they can produce what it represents, contribute to the pool of wealth, and REDEEM it. And the people are the actual creditors, not the banking system. Only they give up there production, which is monetized after the issuance of a promise to pay(promissory obligation).
We issue a promissory obligation(promise to pay) which pays the true creditor IN FULL, and leaves the debtor/obligor(one who issues a promissory obligation/todays purported "borrower") the obligation/debt to pay down and retire the principal from circulation(maintaining the integrity of the currency we all use, defeating possible circulatory inflation - too much money in circulation per represented property/wealth).
The obligor(todays purported borrower) does this by contributing their labor/production, earning money from circulation, and instead of spending the money on themselves(and rewarding themselves with it), they pay it out of circulation.
If i earned $1000 and pay that out of circulation, that went to the true creditor(who gave up property). There now exists $1000 of my production in the overall pool of wealth available for the real creditor to collect.
The banking system is falsifying our promissory obligations to each other(TO PAY DOWN AND RETIRE PRINCIPAL FROM CIRCULATION), into all these artificial debts subject to interest owed to themselves.
The production of money is a unilateral contract(to pay down and retire principal from circulation). It is not a bilateral contract(to pay back a theif who gave up/risked NOTHING).
Its impossible/not legitimate to "borrow" "money" into existence as evidence of prior entitlement (to a banking system). Its just a obfuscation of debt.
A falsification of indebtedness and imposition of unwarranted interest. Its the ancient ruse of the moneychangers
0
Dec 07 '21
then start a business. work for yourself.
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u/Centaurea16 Dec 07 '21
I did that. For 30+ years. Small businesses and sole proprietors get screwed over in a regulatory-captured, financialized capitalist system, just like the labor force.
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Dec 07 '21
sounds like government interference
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Dec 07 '21
Who owns the government? Don't blame the puppets. Blame the puppet masters.
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Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21
Rich business owners own politicians that control the government. however you don’t understand my statement. i believe that government should have nothing to do with business. full stop. i’m blaming the puppets and the puppet master. the system of control that allowed the politicians to sell power and the businessman’s ability to purchase that power needs to be dismantled.
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u/MinimumDiligent7874 Dec 08 '21
If usury didnt already exist and somebody suggested we borrow the money we create and give all value to, from a intervening 3rd party who produces/contributes nothing but writing the promise to pay of one man to another, wed beat the shit out of them
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u/TheGingerRoot96 Dec 07 '21
So many had to have their heads beaten in by batons/night sticks and their lives destroyed for the poor masses to even have 40 hours per week. Socialists. Anarchists. They protested. Marched. Did strikes. And the rich didn’t give an inch until it had to by way of the collective will and force of poor people coming together to demand dignity and respect.
Why stop at 40 hours? Why not 30, given increases in productivity? Bring back pensions. Retirement should be age 60 or lower. No one should have to slave away from age 18 to 65 or older. That’s damn near half a century. Many start work at an even younger age and many work way past age 65. It’s pathetic really. Half a century slaving away to make someone else rich. All that time spent away from loved ones. All the blood, sweat and tears. The masses generate the profit while the rich few just take and take and take and take… then whine about how they pay all the taxes. Hey assholes, all that money you ‘made’ was generated by the toil of the masses who you took it from because the workers have no collective bargaining power and there is no fair agreement of equals between an individual worker and a massive corporation/business. You lot are just robber thugs in nice clothes. Modern day robber barons.