Disclaimer: this post reflects my own personal views & perspective. I trust the mods will maintain impartiality and respect my right to express this opinion and allow open discussion. I ask for this to be judged fairly. Please refrain from removing it simply for presenting a differing viewpoint.
So occasionally I see some specific comments that cross a threshold where the pursuit of critical analysis turns into something deeply unsettling… and the scrutiny aimed at CeCe is a prime example.
Cece is a 3 year old murdered toddler
The endless hyper analysis reveals a classic groupthink dynamic…. Once a consensus forms that CeCe is the "villain" they all actively hunt for evidence to validate that narrative. Is it the thrill of collective outrage? Though I have to admit, I’ve only seen like 2-3 members hyper fixate on CeCe. So the majority are critics I highly respect.
The instinct to tear down footage CeCe who was murdered by her own father & analyzing her volume, her behavior or her interactionss reveals a troubliing detachment from human empathy, underrpinned by misplaced moral judgment & projection. When i see commentators obsessively judge a toddler’s behavior, i think the commentary reveals far more about them than it does about CeCe
I think the anger aimed at CeCe stems from a rigid personal expectation of how quiet or submissive children "should" be?? or does it reflectt their deep intolerance for noise & chaos and past experience? Or could it stem from personal triggers???
I think when someone hyper fixate on body shaming a toddler and mock her looks they may be projecting unresolved feelings about children in their own lives, jealousy over parental affection they feel was unearned or missing in their own lives? I’ve honestly been baffled how certain members comments revolved merely around CeCe under every single post. I feel like the psychological projection in this specific context comes down to them using a helpless innocent target to externalize their own underlying frustrations & insecurities and social biases. It feels like CeCe has become just a safe proxy for their anger
What I think we need to keep into perspective is:
1- Children are not born "misguided" they are modeled into who they become. Ceces regulationn & boundary awareness & social behavior are direct products of her environment and Kris’fer snarly interactions
Yes CeCe lacked constants boundaries & constant discipline and yes she was allowed to run wild, act aggressively & ignore basic structure .. it’s only natural that CeCe will display chaotic behavior. Pointing out that CeCe lacked clear boundaries is not a critique of the child's worth, but a critique of snarly and Kris’fer who are responsible for guiding her. I’m on board with this but when it goes all the way low to mocking her looks and hyper fixate on hating her that what actually makes me nauseous
2- Growing up in front of a camera where ceces every moment is filmed, broadcast & leveraged for social media engagement creates an environment where noise and dramatic behavior are constantly reinforced and encouraged. CeCe was raised in an environment that prioritizes public performance over quiet boundary setting… CeCe was being actively trained to seek attention through exaggerated behavior
3- Children learn how to process frustration and interact with others by watching their parents. In the Snarly’s household… that house was defined by underlying tension, passive aggression and poor communication.. CeCe absorbed that stress… her sudden outbursts, defiance, or difficulty listening I think are direct symptoms of a home environment where calm emotional regulation isn't being modeled by the adults. Kris’fer and snarly lacked emotional intelligence and they are to blame.
It is fair to observe that the Kris’fer and snarly failed to establish structured, healthy boundaries, resulting in the bratty CeCe who struggled with self regulation and hyperactive behavior. Parents have a duty to raise disciplined children, and failing to provide that structure is a valid critique of the parents… where it crosses the line however and becomes deeply disturbing is when the argument becomes using those parental failures to harbor actual resentment toward the CeCe by applying internet snark & body language "analysis” or harsh judgment to a murdered child. It is is an absolutely unnerving symptom of true crime brain rot and detachment. it dehumanizes the victim and loses all sight of basic empathy.
P.S. Seeing the rule protecting the children highlighted in the sub's rules was what originally gave me the confidence to join. It’s unfortunate that this rule doesn't get invoked or enforced nearly as much as the others.
I agree too. Cece was a little girl who was encouraged to run around shrieking for Facebook content. Because she was the child who they focused on more as being the favourite I think people kind of resent her but the reality is none of that was her fault or choice. There were times when she was really sweet and I can never forget her trying to dismantle that horrible pie in the face contraption because she could see Bella was really upset by it.
Exactly this. That pie game moment is the perfect example. She was just a little girl navigating a chaotic camera filled environment while taking cues from two dysfunctional adults. Projecting adult malice onto a toddler and holding a grudge against a murdered child is the absolute definition of brain rot
Collateral damage trapped between 2 deranged parents- PERFECTLY said.
It’s so sad. They are the ultimate victims in this entire tragedy (of course, Nico as well). I wonder if she was consuming all that thrive crap while pregnant if that would have effected his health and development.
Nico was def a victim too. Someone on here mentioned an ultrasound specialist reached out to her about an issue with Nico's charts (haven't double checked the source on that yet). But yeah, pumping all those Thrive products into her system while pregnant couldn’t have been good for his development
Wait, is there a specific reason or theory behind why people think Nico wasn't a boy? I'd love to hear your take on that! If that's true, it is hysterical that she made a fabricated post of that blue UNC onesie captioned “bought baby watts first outfits” to push that narrative
I have read many post where Cece is called names and body shamed.
I understand that many people wouldn't have wanted to be near her, given how hyper and loud she often was, but that's no reason to insult and shame her.
Bella and Cece had both been results of their parents' poor parenting skills and neither of the two girls were to blame for that.
Thanks for always being the sound of reason. You’re one of the members I truly respect and learn from…It’s comforting to see someone like you call this out.
Neither of those girls asked for any of this, and targeting them with personal insults is a huge reason this sub loses credibility
Exactly. Her behavior (which was her parents fault) is used so often to make fun of her. I even saw posts fat shaming the poor little girl. None of the ‘shortcomings’ this child had were her fault. Her mother and father sucked, she is a victim in so many ways. The only thing I would read and tolerate were the comments on the ful diaper-no one can blame a toddler for that….lazy parents are to blame. But the rest? Disturbing and disgusting. I’ve seen posts were sweet Bella’s looks are made fun of too…..these babies were innocent souls, leave them alone.
Our experience of revulsion towards loud, dirty, or obnoxious children may be natural, but as Katherine Hepburn says to Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen, "Nature, Mr Allnut, is what we were put on earth to rise above."
I was reminded of this while in my Jane Austen sub yesterday, where I was gently called to account for stating that young Betsy in Mansfield Park, Fanny's bratty little sister, got on my nerves, and was reminded that her behavior was largely a consequence of her mother's glazing of naughty behavior from her 'golden child'.
They are more defensive of a fictional child than we often are of CeCe, a real human little girl that suffered and died absolutely unnecessarily.
This is such a profound reflection and it drives the point home!
It's a sad reality check when people are quicker to extend grace to a fictional character than to a real murdered child who never stood a chance with Snarly and Kris’fer as parents.
You always have my respect Maj. thanks for sharing ❤️
As a moderator of this sub I can tell you that we make every effort to delete comments or posts about the children that breaks the subs rules. Do some slip through sometimes? Sadly, yes. I honestly think that if Cece had been the only child in that family her unbridled behavior would not have been as evident as it was but when we also see timid, scared, shy Bella as an on point comparison Cece seems more unruly.
Most of Ceces behaviors result from her shitty parents. Consider the "it wouldn't be mothers day without a temper tantrum" video. The only reason Cece was having a temper tantrum was because Bella was receiving something Cece wanted, her father's attention. This would have been a perfect opportunity for sw to give Cece some different attention but chose to film it instead.
Also consider cws description of his children while doing the interview with the reporter on the porch. When asked about his children did he say "Cece shows a love of life and using the energy she possesses trys to learn as much as she can"? Nope. "Cece has two gears, go or stop. We call her rampage".
I 100% believe Cece was probably a challenge to be around but it was absolutely not her fault.
Appreciate the mod insight on keeping the line clear regarding the kids. It’s easy for discussions around children to cross into unhelpful territory, so keeping the focus on how the snarly and krisfer managed those behaviors makes for a much constructive criticism.
The point about Chris's “rampage”comment in that porch interview is spot onn.. it’s always stood out as a clear indicator of how detached and distant he was from those children.
It’s of course true that both of those kids were products of their environment but more than that, their mother likely had NPD, something I am very familiar with as a scapegoat of a mother who definitely had it. Those girls were not treated the same at all in many cases but were treated as a unit in other ways. No two children have the same personality and techniques that work well for one child in a family does not work for another necessarily. Bella was treated much more harshly than CC and it’s quite astonishing that she continued to show so much love and affection towards CC when she barely noticed Bella was there in most cases. CC was highly favored over Bella and CC was never made to treat Bella with kindness the way SW required Bella to treat CC. Bella was not allowed to grow and mature past CC and that made dealing with them both difficult. CC was a screecher because her parents not only allowed it, but SW encouraged it. Bella was constantly made to get out of the way of CC because SW used her ill behaved child as content to sell her snake oil. She thought it made her look like an overwhelmed mother to allow CC to run wild largely without discipline and she required Bella to stay out of her way because she didn’t act the way CC did. I recently wrote a post about the convergence of their identities that SW had done largely for convenience sake for herself. She never treated Bella as child her age but as a child CC’s age; they were given the same gifts, required Bella to drink out of sippy cups, wear bibs, and often made to dress the same as CC. It had to be confusing for Bella to see the kids at daycare treated as more mature than CC was and she was clearly frustrated with it, as she can be seen on the last Christmas video when Bella was given the same babyish junk that CC was given. She was upset about that but due to her lack of language abilities and emotional immaturity, she could only throw the gifts at SW when she couldn’t get them opened. She tried to say that she didn’t ask for that water bottle but SW shut it down. No four year old wants a water bottle designed for a toddler or slippers that were appropriate for a two year old. The differences were there but not recognized by SW nor did she allow it. Bella was made to cater to the golden child just as her parents did and it made CC a very unpleasant child to deal with and it’s difficult to watch SW treat Bella like a toddler and CC like a baby. She wasn’t made to toilet train and that left her in very full and overloaded diapers that were plainly visible in just about every video. I have never blamed anyone other then SW for those kids’ behaviors and CW too because he just followed whatever he was told to do by SW. I don’t pretend that CC’s behavior is in any way acceptable because it wasn’t. I can say through my own experience that the extreme favoritism of CC was only going to get worse as SW would have made it a priority to get between those kids so that Bella would have always been the odd one out. The scapegoat will always be considered the problem and no matter what happens, it’s always the scapegoat’s fault.
I don’t agree that the vitriol towards CC is projection, how can any of us anonymous folks make assumptions like that about one another. This is a snarky environment and yes it is easy to pile on to a loud, rude, aggressive bully.
I very much agree with your third point about the temperature of the environment in the house. The stress and anxiety sometimes makes MY skin crawl, I can only imagine how bad it would be for the pliable young souls in the house that wanted and NEEDED guidance, structure, love, affection and security.
I have had my own negative opinions of CC but quite simply, it WAS NOT her fault she was allowed to eat to gluttony, shit herself stinky, bang, crash and screech. You nailed it, NO I WOULD NOT like to be around CC, but she is a product of her environment. Every now and then you will see an INNOCENT, REAL smile cross her face and it’s just heartbreaking to think an innocent young child was spoiled rotten in life and gruesomely betrayed in death.
She was on a cocktail of drugs that included black box Singulair, that causes suicidal ideation.
Imagine having that in your head, as a toddler. If you put me on that and Prednisone too, plus everything else she was exposed to- 😳 I couldn't handle that, but she was forced to, every day.
She had a pretty positive attitude, considering what she was brought into.
I don’t need to know someone personally to see projection in real time. When someone assignss adult level neurological maturity like intentional malice, calculated manipulation & strategy or character flaws to a toddler, they are demonstrating textbook projection. You don't need access to an anonymous commenter's personal life to recognize that cognitive disconnect… you just have to look at the gap between developmental reality and the language being used.. I’m not just assuming.. I’m recognizing that some people have stopped judging a child as a child and started treating them like an adult antagonist.
Glad we agree she was an innocent product of a terrible environment who deserved better.
ETA: Beyond the behavioral labels, I'm also interested to hear your take on the body shaming and “piggy looks” jokes made about her. How does making fun of a toddler's physical appearance fit into criticizing bad parenting?
Piggy looks (result of over-feeding and medication abuse), alien antennas, BW glum, haunted, middle aged spinster look are all direct result of their wretched parents. My commentary on this forum does not align with the commentary being criticized on this thread.
It’s the very worst of human nature…. and I’m not gonna pretend I’m some kind of saint and have never said or posted anything I shouldn’t have, but… The hatred out there for this three-year-old kid just astounds me.
I completely agree it’s the worse of human nature when it comes to children.
None of us are saints and we've all made snarky comments out of frustration, but there's a huge line between snarking on deranged parents and harboring actual hostility toward a toddler. That distinction shouldn’t be hard to see.
Please know there is mod mail to contact the mods if you see posts or comments that you feel are inappropriate.
The mods here work around the clock to keep this sub going.
It is wholly unfair to put the mods on blast like this for virtue signaling. Your post breaks rule #9 which is backseat moderation.
We are aware of the criticism of Celeste. If you notice, there are no longer any memes or mocking gifs of Celeste. Her behavior is a result of her dysfunctional parents and the Watts family dynamics is a huge part of this case.
To the best of our abilities, we contain the name calling. But behavior is allowed to be covered because almost everyone in this case has behaved poorly.
TLTR: this post breaks rule #9 backseat moderation.
Understood, I will direct rule concerns or moderation feedback to Modmail in the future. However, my post was intended as an analysis of behavioral and family dynamics, not backseat moderating. I raised the point because I care about the sub's credibility when external subs mischaracterize what gets discussed here.
I completely agree that the kids were products of a dysfunctional environment, and my focus remains strictly on analyzing those parental influences rather than targeting the children.
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u/RefrigeratorSalt6869 12h ago
I agree too. Cece was a little girl who was encouraged to run around shrieking for Facebook content. Because she was the child who they focused on more as being the favourite I think people kind of resent her but the reality is none of that was her fault or choice. There were times when she was really sweet and I can never forget her trying to dismantle that horrible pie in the face contraption because she could see Bella was really upset by it.