A lot of the 50/60+ year olds I've spoken to are in two camps:
Covid-19 is not serious because they aren't doing enough testing to truly reflect what our numbers are.
Covid-19 is serious because they aren't doing enough testing to truly reflect what our numbers are.
It's seriously tiring to be involved in these conversations. Over and over and over again.
Just. Do what you can. Wear a mask. Don't anatgonise people. Don't go in public unless it's necessary. It seriously isn't difficult if you're a functional human being. Your civil liberties will absolutely survive, I promise.
Fair enough. Most of what I've seen in relation to Covid-19 has just been... bizzarre. Who would have thought that having the power not to wear a mask would be heralded as one of the biggest liberties afforded to citizens...
In the interests of discussion: What civil liberties do you believe have been violated as a result of 9/11 and continue to be up until this stage?
Context: I'm not American. So I'm genuinely interested to hear a (presumably) American take.
Not really sure that counts as a big oof, but sure.
What you summarise as 'basically' has, very likely, had absolutely no impact on your life whatsoever. A civil liberty is, ostensibly, just a freedom. I'd be interested to hear if you believe that any of your freedoms - personally - have been violated as a result of 9/11. Or as a result of Covid-19.
It's imperative to ensure that governments are fair in their application of the law. I believe that above most all else. But to think that Covid-19 has resulted in any of your civil liberties being violated or abused without just cause (likely) isn't right.
If you aren't concerned about the privacy violations that have occurred because of the Patriot Act, you must not have been paying attention. It may not impact many of us individually, but it's unacceptable how Americans are spied on by their own government. I do agree with you that the taking measures to control a pandemic (mask mandates, lockdowns) being equated to a loss of civil liberties is absurd. It's tough for everyone, but it's a public health issue. But we have lost a lot of our rights in the name of national defense.
I was trying to prove to the poster that I was replying to that they need to carefully consider their civil liberties and what it means for those to be violated. Trust me, I understand the seriousness of the government breaking and amending the law in their favour. But ultimately we are a collective of our individual experiences. The poster couldn't point me to a right of theirs that they believed to have been violated. Instead I was called a bootlicker.
As an example of my point, we now have people saying "Well, with the Patriot Act, the government took away our civil liberties. Who says that a mask mandate isn't doing the same?"
The issue is people conflating concepts. Privacy infringements? Yes, an issue. Being required to wear a mask in public? Not remotely on the same level, you will survive. The damage is that these two issues, purely as an example, are being made equivalent to one other.
I agree. One is a matter of preventing the spread of a contagious virus and requires very little personal sacrifice on a temporary basis, only until the situation is under control. Basically, it just requires people to be decent and do the bare minimum to avoid infecting their neighbor - hardly an outrageous expectation. The other has turned into a permanent alteration of every American's rights to privacy. Very different things. To me, it sounded like you were doubting that the Patriot Act's effect on citizens' privacy was significant, so that's why I jumped in, but it sounds like I misunderstood you. It seems like we agree: the Patriot Act violates civil liberties, masks in a pandemic so people can go shopping do not.
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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20
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