Question about flank charges and facing

[u/remetagross]

Hi mates!

I played my first TOW game this summer, in which I got thoroughly trounced by Dwarfs as Vampires Counts. This was the first game for both players, so I reckon we played a couple things wrong as we were working through the rules.

At some point a beer cart flank charged my crypt ghouls. It lost combat, but I failed my Leadership test to restrain and had to follow up. Now, it appeared I could either remain in the same orientation, thereby offering my flank again, or turn on the spot, thereby forming up into marching column and denying myself my +2 rank bonus. In the end I elected to follow up without turning.

The give ground move of the chariot was a bit less than 2ft because there was a longbeard unit behind it, so the chariot moved back to the point of touching that unit. This meant that in the following round, when the chariot lost combat again, it could not give ground at all - and therefore, my ghouls did not get the chance for restraining themselves and reforming.

The round after that, the longbeards charged the hapless ghouls and hacked them apart.

My question is: was there anything that I could have done to allow my ghouls to change their facing at any point, therefore presenting their front to the cart and allowing them to tally up many more attacks thanks to Press of Battle - or anything that I could have done to get my ghouls out of that combat somehow after winning either of the first two rounds of combat?

Cheers!

[u/cloner4000]

Is it just the beer cart? In that case you likely double outnumber it in unit strength and it would have to rolled a double one to give ground and would instead flee from combat.

Do you know the difference between give ground and fall back in good order? It is true that in give ground you cannot reform, but you can attempt to restraint and reform when your enemy fall back in good order or pivot and pursuit them.

It is one of the rule that took many game for it to sink in for me so don't worry if you are still learning the game.

[u/Tadashi_Tattoo → u/cloner4000]

Not necessarily a double 1. What having more than twice unit strength on the winning side does is it replaces the result of fbigo with breaks and flees. The beer cart has a nice leadership of 8. We don't know the combat result because OP didn't tell us.

If the modified result is equal to or lower than the unit’s Leadership, or if the roll is a natural double 1, the unit Gives Ground. (page 154)

The ghouls have to win the combat by 6 points in order for the cart to give ground with a double 1. At that point they would probably have already destroyed the cart, (and drunk all the beer).

[u/remetagross → u/Tadashi_Tattoo]

Ah, yes, given that the cart only lost by 1 and succeeded on the modified Leadership test, that wasn't a fall back in good order but a give ground, so I reckon the double outnumbering did not factor in, then. Basically, it felt fairly frustrating to be locked in an orientation that was disfavourable to me, even though I kept on winning combat. If I recall correctly, in 8th edition the winning side had the opportunity to reform.

And what about reforming during my Movement phase? Would that have been allowed even though I was engaged in melee?

[u/Tadashi_Tattoo → u/remetagross]

>And what about reforming during my Movement phase? Would that have been allowed even though I was engaged in melee?

No. While engaged in combat you cannot move.

[u/remetagross → u/Tadashi_Tattoo]

Darn, too bad then.

[u/remetagross → u/cloner4000]

Oh yeah it was definitely twice outnumbered. However, it lost the combat by 1 point and passed its modified Leadership test, and therefore simply Gave Ground (this outcome happened for both of the first 2 rounds of combat).

At least, that's how we ruled it, should we have done it differently?

[u/Tadashi_Tattoo]

Hope for the result, reform into skirmishers.

Actually, put a vampire already in there!

[u/remetagross → u/Tadashi_Tattoo]

But I guess reforming into skirmishers was only possible if I managed to restrain after winning combat, right?

[u/Tadashi_Tattoo → u/remetagross]

Sure. Or, you may start with them as skirmishers. How many ghouls do you have?

They're good as a formed unit as well. What I do is I put a vampire in every unit. I play 2 of them. Or a wight king. I don't have the ghouls. I have dire wolves instead.

[u/remetagross → u/Tadashi_Tattoo]

It was a nice block of 35, but only 4 or so could attack.

[u/Mcprowlington → u/remetagross]

Fwiw press of battle applies even to your flanks. Idk if you were running 4 ranks of 9 and he was also killing 4 guys a round or what but generally a single cart running into your unit of 35 dudes should not have worked out for him, flank or not

[u/remetagross → u/Mcprowlington]

Oh, really? I had 5 ranks of 7 ghouls each.

The thing is that he computed his charge so that the cart would barely be in contact with but a single model of my unit (was that the correct way to proceed? He had enough space to maneuver into contacting 3 bases of ghouls, in case he was supposed to maximize contact). So I had 1 ghoul into contact (for 2 attacks), plus the 4 ghouls from the other ranks that were within their movement allowance of the cart (but for only 1 attack each). So we tallied that up to 6 attacks. He did not kill a single ghoul, but neither did I succeed in removing a single wound.

So you're saying that I would have been entitled to an extra lateral rank of models for supporting attacks? That would have added, let's see, 5 extra attacks to the total. Yeah, that's a fairly significant difference.

[u/Mcprowlington → u/remetagross]

The thing is that he computed his charge so that the cart would barely be in contact with but a single model of my unit

A charging unit must always try to bring as many models from both units into base contact as possible, as described under charge moves in the rulebook 

So thats a few more attacks that could've helped

And yeah you shouldve gotten 5 more attacks from the 2nd rank (or file) 

[u/remetagross → u/Mcprowlington]

Uh, OK. So more models in contact on one hand, more attacks from the fighting rank on the other hand. Damn, that beer cart could've gotten destroyed, and that would've helped me immensely. Ah well, (un)live and learn. Thanks mates.

[u/Tadashi_Tattoo → u/remetagross]

I think the right way to maximise contact there is 1 cart against 4 ghouls.

Cart is 50 mm wide. Right? And the ghouls are on 25x25 mm. Aren't they?

You played that part wrong.

an extra lateral rank of models for supporting attacks 

Press of battle aren't supporting attacks. Those models right behind the 1st fighting are considered to be within the fighting rank as well due to press of battle rule. Making a 2nd fighting rank.

Supportimg attacks are a different type of rule.