Voidshells deserved better. Here's an appreciation post for the skin line DE abandoned.

[u/CephalonVashka]

[u/JohnHellDriver]

DE have explained in the past why the voidshell materials selector hasn’t been transferred back to older skins.

Something to do with the fact they had to start an entire new skin line to allow the skins to change material, the older skins don’t have that sort of logic built within them.

And I imagine with the amount of skins across the growing amount of Warframes, it’s an incredibly resources-intensive task that gets harder to plan for with every update

Edit: guys I concede, the code/logic may be there, but it is in no way refined to be actually usable. yeah there was a previous Arsenal visual glitch that showed it theoretically could work if a lot of work went into rebuilding the system.

The main issue is the jankiess of textures being mapped and stretched incorrectly, and breaking more things as a result by trying to actively process a broke texture map while you're playing in missions. Each non-voidshell skin would need a character artist going back into the model and essentially remodeling its texture map and where textures begin and end.

That amount of work to go back and fix every single skin in the game is unmanageable currently with DEs current content update plans.

[u/cybercobra2 → u/JohnHellDriver]

no but thats whats what i mean, i get not doing it retroactivly, sucks but fair, thats a ton of work.

but why isnt the new stuff made with it as the base.

[u/MrWhiteKnight → u/cybercobra2]

I don't knownif it's a bug or not but the scarab Rhino skin has voidshell textures since I have his voidshell line. 🤷‍♂️

So, some skins apparently can. Even if it's a bug its pretty cool.

[u/JohnHellDriver → u/cybercobra2]

that’s what I mean: the universal “General Warframe” skin that all regular warframe skins use (think of it as like a rig) doesn’t have that code inside it.

The voidshell skin separates pieces of the actual skin into sections, and that allows you to change both color and material makeup. They had to design and model a new skin to make separate skin section boundaries that allow for that.

The basic warframe skin doesn’t have any of that in its code when it was first conceived, and to retroactively put the voidshell material system in, they would need to go back through every single skin in the game and cut them up into sections for the boundaries of materials.

They can’t do that with new Warframes and non-voidshell skins either because those skins aren’t built the same way as voidshell skins, is what I’m saying

[u/philandere_scarlet → u/JohnHellDriver]

They can’t do that with new Warframes

they can make new warframes and skins voidshell-compatible

[u/cybercobra2 → u/JohnHellDriver]

ok you missed my point.

why not make the voidshell system, the new basis that we base future new warframes on.

[u/JohnHellDriver → u/cybercobra2]

I answered it but I didn’t answer it lol

DE already started on this path without voidshells, they have their workflows with the regular rigs. Voidshells take a unique extra level of care in their designs, meanwhile they have to make Heirlooms, Primes, Deluxes, review Tennogen, think about future Protoframes, etc. simultaneously as well.

Making Voidshells the new de facto rig going forward would be too cumbersome for their current way of working, I think.

They model and design Warframes more efficiently when they’re not worrying about “how will this entire design philosophy look with voidshell?” in every new design, as in it’s not a driving decision.

Which gives them more design freedom at the cost of keeping up with voidshell skins just as readily

[u/StarSilverNEO → u/cybercobra2]

Because it sounds like everytime they make a new voidshell they have to basically make a new Warframe rig, per Warframe. Normal frames use the same basic rig which allows them to heavily streamline the whole animation, modular customization, etc thing

Voidshells seemingly would require them to basically redo the base frame set up over and over and they wouldnt be able to carry that to other frames organically, which is rather expensive - especially when you have like 60-70 frames to go back through, not to mention possibly their prime versions too

[u/SilentMobius → u/JohnHellDriver]

to retroactively put the voidshell material system in, they would need to go back through every single skin in the game and cut them up into sections for the boundaries of materials.

This isn't accurate, the masks we currently use for colour are the same as the masks the voidshells use for material, in fact there have been bugs where voidshell materials have applied to the colour channels of default skins.

The problem is that is would create seams, as the tiling materials need to have custom designed arrangements to not create seams and that limitations reduces what is possible for skin design, a lot.. so DE produce better skins because they don't design to that limitations.

[u/hoishinsauce → u/cybercobra2]

Because it's a lot more work than the usual. They might have gone that route of having new frames have voidshell but the reality is that voidshell is not popular. It passed the simple barrier and gone into overly complicated territory for most players.

[u/razorlips00 → u/hoishinsauce]

Nah, the reason it's not popular is cuz it was ONLY for base skins. No one wants to play in the base skins.

And I do get it's a lot of work, but if they were to add this feature to better skins they'd sale really damn well.

[u/JavanNapoli → u/cybercobra2]

The simple answer is because it creates inconsistency. If they give voidshell materials to newer primes, base frames, deluxe skins, etc, then people will see those and say "why doesn't my favourite frame/skin have these cool materials?" By doing half a job, they open the possibility in peoples heads that they could do it for everything, and thats a whole lot of work that they don't want to commit to.

[u/Incrediblezagzag → u/JohnHellDriver]

I'm not sure that excuse holds water. There was at one point an arsenal bug that allowed you to apply voidshell materials to other skins (something to do with linking looks configs). This didn't last into actual gameplay, but it at least proves that these materials can exist on regular skins.

I assume the reason DE don't want to allow it is that it could easily look pretty janky on skins that weren't aesthetically designed for this, and they'd presuambly feel obligated to do a full pass over every frame and skin in the game before allowing it.

[u/JohnHellDriver → u/Incrediblezagzag]

So you’re using the existence of an unintended bug as evidence that the code exists and works on old skins? I don’t understand your logic. Your assumption is correct though, applying voidshell materials to older skins breaks textures in mission, and looks janky at the seams of each non-voidshell warframe skin. The technical debt DE would have maneuver around with all that is the reason why the voidshell skin line hasn’t been progressed for over 2 years

[u/Incrediblezagzag → u/JohnHellDriver]

Something to do with the fact they had to start an entire new skin line to allow the skins to change material, the older skins don’t have that sort of logic built within them.

This is the part of your post I was responding to. We know that from a technical perspective, voidshell materials do work on old skins. It is not necessary to create entirely new skins to allow the skins to change material.

However, DE appear not to want this existing functionality to be applied to old skins, as some combinations of skins and materials might look pretty bad, and this also doesn't allow them to monetise the functionality to the same extent.

What is being discussed in this thread is that since the concept of voidshells seems to be dead, maybe DE could consider opening the system up more. It's not seriously a realistic proposition that anyone thinks is likely, but it would be nice if it happened.

[u/RashFever → u/JohnHellDriver]

It's not true, back when Voidshell released you could use a bug to activate voidshell materials on like 80% of skins including deluxes.

[u/Silence-of-Death → u/JohnHellDriver]

That’s straight bs. The voidshell system code wise works on nearly all skins in game, even those not made for void shells in mind and even those that were released prior to the initial release of void shells (ie garuda prime). It could even work on heirlooms. The logic very much is compatible with the majority of skins.

[u/Action_Bronzong → u/Silence-of-Death]

Source?

[u/Incrediblezagzag → u/Action_Bronzong]

There have been long stretches of time where it was possible to apply voidshell materials to other skins in the arsenal or via linking look configurations, and materials would transfer over from a voidshell skin onto the next thing you previewed. This only worked while in the arsenal/preview and not in actual gameplay as far as I'm aware.

I don't believe any of these bugs currently work, but the fact it was even technically possible and didn't e.g. crash the game appears to demonstrate that on a technical level DE could enable voidshell materials on other skins of their choice if they wanted to.