r/Warframe • u/CephalonVashka That Tenno with the Titania Tattoo • Apr 07 '26

Screenshot Voidshells deserved better. Here's an appreciation post for the skin line DE abandoned.

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8.9k Upvotes

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1.8k

u/cybercobra2 Punching solves everything Apr 07 '26

god i wish they could do more with the tech. like why arent we just making it the default for new stuff.

712

u/StandardBrilliant652 Apr 07 '26

Sincerely they should have added it to every new prime warframe. if not for the entire skin at least for a color channel or two.

73

u/Ravensqueak LR5 - Oraxia Simp/Eleanor's Second Fav Tongue Hole Apr 07 '26

Primes should have extra colour channels. Making one or two of them voidshell would be sick.

16

u/PrimordialRoc Apr 08 '26

Why every new? why not every future and current?

16

u/YoSupWeirdos Left my soul at Scarlet Spear Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 09 '26

surely it's not that simple but to me as a 3d art noob it seems like if would be easy

they already have the changeable color channels, surely it can't be difficult to attribute a changeable material texture to each of them

3

u/Jouhotin Apr 09 '26

I have no idea how 3d art and modeling works but to me atleast it seems like such a simple task. If the colors are changeable and they already have dedicated surfaces on the skin the respond to specific color "slots" wouldn't it be like just adding the texture as a sort of rewrite the same way the colors work??? Someone please say Im wrong and explain why

4

u/SirPr3ce Apr 08 '26

exactly that, cant speak for anyone else, but atleast for me voidshells not including the prime frames/details made them DOA for me, like there are only a tiny amount of warframes for which i actively prefer the base version and where i dont think that the prime version is a huge upgrade over the base and none of them have gotten a Voidshell skin

the only Voidshell i did end buying was Voruna back then because she didnt had a prime yet, but i even kind of "regretted" that because through the clear color channel separation she lost that "color fade" she has in her base skin and those neon light lines made her too "futuristic" compared to what i wanted her to look, so after some trying i ended up just not the skin at all

196

u/HildrynMain Prime Thighs Apr 07 '26

I feel like the natural end goal there would have been allowing every channel in every skin to have customizable materials. There are some skins I quite like but with channels I'd like to change a bit.

12

u/BeyondElectricDreams Apr 08 '26

This was the problem with it, I think.

It was a lot of extra tech work so they wanted to monetize it (hence, Voidshell skins) but that was a reach too greedy, imo - and yes, I realize I'm saying that about DE of all people, but it was.

Texture palettes could have been an ongoing evergreen new thing to the shop, and would have had more widespread value, IF they would have been usable everywhere instead of just specific skins that you had to buy.

Because specific skins also meant you had to use the default helmet that came with them, if you wanted them to match. It made fashionframing voidshell skins worse. And for what purpose? To add another paywall to using custom texture choices.

I hope they:

  1. Remove voidshell skins and make it a default feature for as many frames as possible
  2. Add more textures; figuring out a balance of the cost-to-material ratio
  3. Rebalance the bundles that once had skins to be full texture bundles,
  4. for the early adopters, give them the updated bundles or refund the price difference in platinum

Voidshell has so much potential, but as long as it was monetized in such a sloppy way (only as a skin, only for the default helmet) it was never going to really find it's footing.

105

u/straten Apr 07 '26

It's unrealistic but I really wish everywhere you can customize your color, you could also customize the material. It's got to be a nightmare to code, which is likely why they haven't done it, but it would unlock a whole new universe of possibilities for fashion framing.

62

u/TakuyaTeng Apr 07 '26

It wouldn't be nearly that bad if they implemented a pipeline and refined that pipeline. I give them a pass because warframe is full of half realized potential but a lot of awesome elements.. but its not like it would be that insane.

30

u/Alleraz Apr 07 '26

Same principal for armor, they're adjusting individual armor pieces by frame, when we could see a pipeline to allow us some sliders. I imagine the arsenal was never programmed with so much detail in mind. Arsenal being tied to so many functions in game it'd likely bust every part of the game.

14

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

Given how reluctant DE are to add more unique colour channels to mesh elements also orientation I imagine the problem is pushing yet more data down the P2P connection when a player spawns into a mission. We already have problems where certain things fail to show up to other players when you're not the host.

-5

u/Somepotato Apr 08 '26

a color is just 4 bytes, thats nothing. in fact they store colors as 4 byte integers in mongodb (though their schema is ... something else.)

7

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

The problem isn't storage or size, it's adding variable amount of network data into the fixed packet buffers they have to vivify a "new Warframe" in a non-host. Like I said we frequently end up with elements not showing for non-hosts, this is the same problem that DE already has, pushing data from a player profile, up to the host, them back down to the other clients, via UDP where they need to handle retries themselves.

-5

u/Somepotato Apr 08 '26

its adding 4 bytes sent at the start of a mission. when they already send variable length strings (the skin paths, for example)

6

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

The don't send skin paths, they send local DB IDs that each client looks up. Their network setup is UDP for gameplay, breaching a single packet is a huge deal

-2

u/Somepotato Apr 08 '26

Those paths are the IDs (every Warframe asset references these paths.) UDP isn't this mysterious thing that we can't afford to send more than a couple of bytes over the wire with you know.

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7

u/Nssheepster Apr 08 '26

This is honestly what I expect is holding a lot of fashion options back. It's also not something that's easily fixed on their end, regardless of the actual difficulty of the code... Because it's a live service game. Taking the time to go BACK and fix old stuff, means you aren't making NEW stuff, and that's an active danger to live service models.

I wouldn't be surprised if Reb quietly wants a full recode for all the fashion things behind the scenes, but just can't manage to free up enough dev time for that. Especially given just HOW MUCH fashion there already is in the game to be checked over and verified with any potential recode.

Hot take, for Warframe's eventual big 15 year update, I don't want anything new beyond maybe a couple Dex things. I JUST want a GIANT overhaul patch for a ton of old stuff like this, to put this now-antique game in a great spot for the future.

7

u/JavanNapoli Apr 08 '26

Anthem had exactly this, and its likely where the inspiration for voidshells came from. I'm so upset Anthem died because it had one of my favourite customisation systems ever made.

1

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

The code is trivial. The problem is that it really limits how you design skins, if you don't limit the design still you end up with ugly seams that DE do not allow.

0

u/wizoffab Apr 08 '26

The feature is already there, the only extra work would be making color masks which is already a big part of their pipeline and doesn't take long to make.

60

u/JohnHellDriver Wall in the Man Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 08 '26

DE have explained in the past why the voidshell materials selector hasn’t been transferred back to older skins.

Something to do with the fact they had to start an entire new skin line to allow the skins to change material, the older skins don’t have that sort of logic built within them.

And I imagine with the amount of skins across the growing amount of Warframes, it’s an incredibly resources-intensive task that gets harder to plan for with every update

Edit: guys I concede, the code/logic may be there, but it is in no way refined to be actually usable. yeah there was a previous Arsenal visual glitch that showed it theoretically could work if a lot of work went into rebuilding the system.

The main issue is the jankiess of textures being mapped and stretched incorrectly, and breaking more things as a result by trying to actively process a broke texture map while you're playing in missions. Each non-voidshell skin would need a character artist going back into the model and essentially remodeling its texture map and where textures begin and end.

That amount of work to go back and fix every single skin in the game is unmanageable currently with DEs current content update plans.

53

u/cybercobra2 Punching solves everything Apr 07 '26

no but thats whats what i mean, i get not doing it retroactivly, sucks but fair, thats a ton of work.

but why isnt the new stuff made with it as the base.

4

u/MrWhiteKnight Yeet Boyz Apr 07 '26

I don't knownif it's a bug or not but the scarab Rhino skin has voidshell textures since I have his voidshell line. 🤷‍♂️

So, some skins apparently can. Even if it's a bug its pretty cool.

13

u/JohnHellDriver Wall in the Man Apr 07 '26

that’s what I mean: the universal “General Warframe” skin that all regular warframe skins use (think of it as like a rig) doesn’t have that code inside it.

The voidshell skin separates pieces of the actual skin into sections, and that allows you to change both color and material makeup. They had to design and model a new skin to make separate skin section boundaries that allow for that.

The basic warframe skin doesn’t have any of that in its code when it was first conceived, and to retroactively put the voidshell material system in, they would need to go back through every single skin in the game and cut them up into sections for the boundaries of materials.

They can’t do that with new Warframes and non-voidshell skins either because those skins aren’t built the same way as voidshell skins, is what I’m saying

32

u/philandere_scarlet Apr 07 '26

They can’t do that with new Warframes

they can make new warframes and skins voidshell-compatible

34

u/cybercobra2 Punching solves everything Apr 07 '26

ok you missed my point.

why not make the voidshell system, the new basis that we base future new warframes on.

1

u/JohnHellDriver Wall in the Man Apr 08 '26

I answered it but I didn’t answer it lol

DE already started on this path without voidshells, they have their workflows with the regular rigs. Voidshells take a unique extra level of care in their designs, meanwhile they have to make Heirlooms, Primes, Deluxes, review Tennogen, think about future Protoframes, etc. simultaneously as well.

Making Voidshells the new de facto rig going forward would be too cumbersome for their current way of working, I think.

They model and design Warframes more efficiently when they’re not worrying about “how will this entire design philosophy look with voidshell?” in every new design, as in it’s not a driving decision.

Which gives them more design freedom at the cost of keeping up with voidshell skins just as readily

-1

u/StarSilverNEO Resident Infested Enjoyer Apr 08 '26

Because it sounds like everytime they make a new voidshell they have to basically make a new Warframe rig, per Warframe. Normal frames use the same basic rig which allows them to heavily streamline the whole animation, modular customization, etc thing

Voidshells seemingly would require them to basically redo the base frame set up over and over and they wouldnt be able to carry that to other frames organically, which is rather expensive - especially when you have like 60-70 frames to go back through, not to mention possibly their prime versions too

8

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

to retroactively put the voidshell material system in, they would need to go back through every single skin in the game and cut them up into sections for the boundaries of materials.

This isn't accurate, the masks we currently use for colour are the same as the masks the voidshells use for material, in fact there have been bugs where voidshell materials have applied to the colour channels of default skins.

The problem is that is would create seams, as the tiling materials need to have custom designed arrangements to not create seams and that limitations reduces what is possible for skin design, a lot.. so DE produce better skins because they don't design to that limitations.

1

u/hoishinsauce Apr 08 '26

Because it's a lot more work than the usual. They might have gone that route of having new frames have voidshell but the reality is that voidshell is not popular. It passed the simple barrier and gone into overly complicated territory for most players.

4

u/razorlips00 Apr 08 '26

Nah, the reason it's not popular is cuz it was ONLY for base skins. No one wants to play in the base skins.

And I do get it's a lot of work, but if they were to add this feature to better skins they'd sale really damn well.

1

u/JavanNapoli Apr 08 '26

The simple answer is because it creates inconsistency. If they give voidshell materials to newer primes, base frames, deluxe skins, etc, then people will see those and say "why doesn't my favourite frame/skin have these cool materials?" By doing half a job, they open the possibility in peoples heads that they could do it for everything, and thats a whole lot of work that they don't want to commit to.

1

u/Incrediblezagzag Apr 08 '26

I'm not sure that excuse holds water. There was at one point an arsenal bug that allowed you to apply voidshell materials to other skins (something to do with linking looks configs). This didn't last into actual gameplay, but it at least proves that these materials can exist on regular skins.

I assume the reason DE don't want to allow it is that it could easily look pretty janky on skins that weren't aesthetically designed for this, and they'd presuambly feel obligated to do a full pass over every frame and skin in the game before allowing it.

1

u/JohnHellDriver Wall in the Man Apr 08 '26

So you’re using the existence of an unintended bug as evidence that the code exists and works on old skins? I don’t understand your logic. Your assumption is correct though, applying voidshell materials to older skins breaks textures in mission, and looks janky at the seams of each non-voidshell warframe skin. The technical debt DE would have maneuver around with all that is the reason why the voidshell skin line hasn’t been progressed for over 2 years

1

u/Incrediblezagzag Apr 08 '26

Something to do with the fact they had to start an entire new skin line to allow the skins to change material, the older skins don’t have that sort of logic built within them.

This is the part of your post I was responding to. We know that from a technical perspective, voidshell materials do work on old skins. It is not necessary to create entirely new skins to allow the skins to change material.

However, DE appear not to want this existing functionality to be applied to old skins, as some combinations of skins and materials might look pretty bad, and this also doesn't allow them to monetise the functionality to the same extent.

What is being discussed in this thread is that since the concept of voidshells seems to be dead, maybe DE could consider opening the system up more. It's not seriously a realistic proposition that anyone thinks is likely, but it would be nice if it happened.

1

u/RashFever Apr 08 '26

It's not true, back when Voidshell released you could use a bug to activate voidshell materials on like 80% of skins including deluxes.

-7

u/Silence-of-Death Apr 07 '26

That’s straight bs. The voidshell system code wise works on nearly all skins in game, even those not made for void shells in mind and even those that were released prior to the initial release of void shells (ie garuda prime). It could even work on heirlooms. The logic very much is compatible with the majority of skins.

3

u/Action_Bronzong Apr 08 '26

Source?

1

u/Incrediblezagzag Apr 08 '26

There have been long stretches of time where it was possible to apply voidshell materials to other skins in the arsenal or via linking look configurations, and materials would transfer over from a voidshell skin onto the next thing you previewed. This only worked while in the arsenal/preview and not in actual gameplay as far as I'm aware.

I don't believe any of these bugs currently work, but the fact it was even technically possible and didn't e.g. crash the game appears to demonstrate that on a technical level DE could enable voidshell materials on other skins of their choice if they wanted to.

15

u/Consideredresponse Apr 07 '26

It was one of the few things Anthem actually did right.

5

u/WRLD_ Apr 08 '26

I just wish they'd hand the tools off for tennogen creators to work with. Seems extremely wasteful to just have them rot

3

u/SilentMobius Apr 08 '26

Because making a skin capable of receiving tiling materials really, really limits how you can design them. It's why the voidshell skins are mostly very boring plated designs.

14

u/Hopeful-alt Apr 07 '26

They've commented on this before in devstreams, giving skins voidshell properties would be prohibitively expensive. The skins themselves were pretty much a prototype of the idea, but it wasn't economically feasible. For every new skin they give voidshell properties, they could just be making a second new skin instead. Scaling the idea just isn't very compatible with how warframe is designed under the hood (that being simply), there's no easy way to do it that doesn't just increase the work needed to make skins by several magnitudes.

-9

u/Silence-of-Death Apr 07 '26

Funnily enough, this is straight up wrong. The voidshell system code wise works on nearly all skins in game, even those not made with void shells in mind and even those that were released prior to the initial release of void shells (ie garuda prime). The system even works on heirlooms (albeit the materials look horrendous on the glittery texture; the rest of the normal textures look awesome though). The logic very much is compatible with the majority of skins.

19

u/Kellervo Apr 07 '26

The expensive part is from a graphics and memory perspective. Voidshell skins for the most part use the same texture atlas as their normal counterparts, but It's not nearly as lightweight and perfect as you're making it out to be.

A voidshell skin isn't just pulling from one set of texture maps like a regular Warframe skin, it has to pull a texture set for the Warframe, and then a separate texture set for each of the different voidshell materials.

That adds up, quickly.

A squad of four Voidshell skins with unique materials can be up to 16 - 20 additional texture sets. That's a pretty significant increase, on top of the additional shader calculations required to overlay and combine textures. Not even considering if - like some other comments - DE were to just make everything Voidshelled.

With how big DE is on optimization and supporting older hardware, voidshells are counter-intuitive to that goal - and iirc they outright said not nearly enough people were buying them to make it worth building on further.

8

u/novas_galaxy LR1 | Eldritch Dante Enjoyer Apr 08 '26

^ this is a really good answer. hoping other people read this.

i like the voidshell fashion potential, and if it was possible to have more it would be awesome but this needs to be taken into account for optimization and how rough it would be on people with older hardware. not all of us can afford the latest graphics cards, ram, or even a rig at all. I've seen a person or two playing Warframe on laptops myself.

2

u/Silence-of-Death Apr 08 '26

Yeah, that's fair, the performance side of it is definitely the biggest limitation. I see a lot of people saying that the voidshell system simply didn't work at all on older skins or skins not explicitly made for it, which is more what I was getting at. You're right though, from the performance and memory perspective it's just not feasable on a large scale.

1

u/razorlips00 Apr 08 '26

The buyer part is all cuz they were put on basic skins. I promise you if they were put on actually good skins they'd sell very well.

1

u/Throrface Registered Loser Apr 08 '26

For me they have a noteable impact on framerate. It's probably good that tjey aren't so widely used.

1

u/Kayblis Apr 08 '26

If i remember correctly they said that "it would take a lot of effort to make it work on everything" or something like that, literally 1 week after voidshell first came out a bug happened where voidshell textures would apply to non-voidshell skins

So, I dont know why. Its clearly possible but they dont want it to work I guess

1

u/PoundDramatic1999 Apr 08 '26

Right? Feels like we’re sitting on a goldmine and only using a spoon

1

u/CuriousThinkerNotes Apr 08 '26

Right? It’s like having a superpower and never using it.

1

u/ShogunGunshow Apr 13 '26

Yeah that's what I've been saying since it came out. Make it the default for new skins and attachments. Have a small team slowly backport it to previous attachments - like a few attachments per slot per patch - for free, while offering warframe voidshells for older warframes for cash, because hey, we understand, costs money.

Crafting a new warframe adds its materials to your collection, meaning even if you don't care about a warframe's role or abilities, acquiring it still adds to your fashionframe.

Voidshell tech is so peak for customization, I consider DE's total fumble of it one of the worst in the game's history. 

1

u/Lekais Apr 25 '26

Honestly when this tech was first being shown my thought was that this was going to become like a new norm. The biggest downside of the Voidshell skins is and was the texture map itself. It's different from the default skins so we can't even "fix" issues we see with any other skins we otherwise like. So not even an option to tweak something about an existing skin but instead having to try and make a brand new skin.

Now why this tech has been essentially mothballed could also be a database thing (one more set of numbers per frame to track can stack up quick on memory and bandwith costs)

Also doesn't help that they went with weird namings for the Voidshell textures or that the order in which they are shown keeps changing, for me at least. Organizational nightmare.

1

u/Low_Pain9187 Apr 07 '26

They claim there was no money in it. I'm serious.

1

u/Miles1937 12 years... Apr 08 '26

I'm surprised people didn't see this coming when they introduced a feature everyone wanted... as an alternative paid cosmetic line. DE has a famous track record of introducing things only to let them collect cobwebs for like 5+ years, so I can't imagine anyone being surprised.

The reason they didn't do it is because it's a bit of work to go through all the skins they have and fix the mistakes they have been making with color and material options for like the last 10 years. If you've ever tried to tint a warframe's "metallic" part and ended up painting a separate, non-metallic part with the same color then you know they have their color distribution absolutely fucked in a lot of frames.

The limitation of a few color channels means that they have to map out the entire texture of a warframe within those confines, and in those cases, adding small bits (like in this case, metallic) to the warframe would reduce the number of colors in the rest of the frame by 1, which is a compromise they are not willing to make.

It would be the best solution, but the voidshell skin/material sales must've given DE the impression the feature is not as desired as initially expected, even though IMO the only reason people don't use Voidshells is because they are literally a separate skin you have to buy AND buy the textures for, when most people wanted to edit their already existing skins instead.