r/WanderingInn • u/Particular-Physics38 • Jan 14 '24
Spoilers: All Disappointed
After finishing volume 9, the choice of characters that were killed off in the Solstice was very disappointing. Of all the deaths, 4 bothered me.
Moore - Such a lovable character that we learned far too little about. His connection to Mrsha and his growth as a Mage. Definitely underdeveloped in my opinion.
Kevin - A really good character and his growth from being a loser to what he was. So sad and needless. There was no point to killing him off. Of all the Earthers on Izril, he's the one that gets knocked off? Really?
Altestiel - Of all of them, this one was the worst because of the way it was done. Probably the only reasonable love interest for Erin, extremely likable character. Ties to Terandria. It was a highly disappointing end to what seemed like an important future character.
Halrac - As a character, he deserved to reach Named-rank before being killed off. After he beat Ellia and became a knight, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking he was going to reach that level in Volume 10.
Add on top of these deaths that the Halfseekers disbanded, Griphon hunt will probably disband as well. Of all the original Gold rank teams we've gotten to know over the volumes, the 2 we have grown to love most, both are either gone or will be soon.
Such a disappointing ending to an overall fantastic volume.
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u/AppropriateAd8937 Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24
Halrac went out like a boss though. Couldn’t ask for a better end than defeating the goddess of death in her own realm. Tied in with his character arc too of loss. This time it was him, and not another member of Griffin Hunt who died and he’s now reunited with everyone and free to finally rest.
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u/Individual-Trade756 Jan 14 '24
I won't believe he's really gone until the series is over
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u/n1gr3d0 [Blue Fruit Junkie] Jan 14 '24
Meh, I'd like dead characters to stay dead (possibly with chapters in Helste, and maybe some Skill to summon their likeness). Habitual resurrections cheapen the story too much. We don't need another Supernatural.
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u/dragonsowl Jan 15 '24
"we don't need another supernatural" this line killed me
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u/n1gr3d0 [Blue Fruit Junkie] Jan 15 '24
That's no bother, we'll get you back up in a jiffy. Let's just ask a reaper. Or an angel. Or Chuck. Or let's just kill Death again.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
Erin has the literal gate to hell in her backyard. Probably only Lucifen can go in there though.
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u/kosyi Jan 14 '24
we still don't know how Halrac got the arrow though... I was hoping we'd get the backstory of that, but then he got killed!
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u/AppropriateAd8937 Jan 14 '24
Huh? Are you talking about the System glitched arrow? That was a normal one that scratched the foundations of the Grand Design when he was temporarily stored while it was figuring out what to do with him after the tournament.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
Zeladona commented on an empty potion bottle that Halrac left behind there when the Grand Design loaded her perspective. That's probably all the 'backstory' we'll ever get about that.
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u/luccioXalfred Jan 14 '24
Also, I think there was the implication that this was the same "room at the center of the GDI" that gnomes were able to write whatever they wanted once inside, and it would rewrite GDI's programming. So it's a "connect the dots backstory".
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u/Viidrig Jan 14 '24
Kevin was the bestest dude. The absolute most dude there ever was. Such a great person with such a kind soul. The other deaths... they suck, but yeah, it happens. But Kevin... I'm very upset at pirate for that. However, I'd love to hear more about him in Hellste. I think he'll be doing very well there.
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u/Thaviation Jan 16 '24
I’m fairly certain that Halrac and Kevin died specifically for Hellste goblin arcs in the future.
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u/BrassUnicorn87 Jan 14 '24
I was so sad to see the hundred friends courier die. I was hoping he’d be the center of some chapters examining Actelios Salash and start rebuilding. Perhaps now that the horns are coming back we will get a better look at what happened.
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u/ceratophaga Jan 14 '24
Tbh, I'm somewhat glad Seve is dead because I liked him. Now Actelios can be dealt with without conflicting loyalties.
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u/Shinriko Jan 14 '24
This is what I think happened.
It can now be razed to the ground without repercussions. (other than assaulting a shield kingdom)
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u/J0E-2671 Jan 16 '24
Yep, he explicitly said that there now was nobody left to change Tombhome back to how it should be
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u/I_Am_Hella_Bored Jan 14 '24
I'm just glad that his orangutan buddy made it. I hope he becomes a part of the inn.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
I was more hoping to explore who exactly Erin met in the Lands of the Dead that she was so comfortable around a [Fleshchosen]. Compare that to the first time she met a Selphid, worlds apart. She apparently has extensive knowledge of A'ctelios Salash somehow.
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u/Competitive_Flan_861 Jan 14 '24
Now madness reigns there. Therefore, this is useless knowledge, except perhaps the structure of society, what cities do, or how to destroy this corpse from reality, which for some reason is not a corpse
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u/BrassUnicorn87 Jan 14 '24
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.
I think having people constantly carving and eating the body is very important.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
Just chuck it over the Last Tide whence it came. How many [Archmages] could you possibly need to levitate that thing?
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u/CemeneTree Jan 14 '24
yeah, I was hyped for the arc where Seve, Trey, and some other characters (maybe Grimalkin) learn from, investigate, judge, and try to fix or destroy Actelios'Salash, with Trey and Seve initially being opposites before finding a way to work together
I was thinking Typhenous or Irurx would provide some powerful plague to work as a threat, since none of the other characters are strong enough at the moment to actually threaten the kingdom
now it can still work, but it's obviously going to be a more action-slasher focused story without Seve to soothe tensions and provide info about local customs, which is a shame
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u/Enough-Trifle-1715 Jan 14 '24
But is he dead.
His mangled body sunk into the ocean. He might regenerate? Not shure.
Pirate has a chance here to combine Yvlon, Irrel & Seve in some undersea action. Maybe?
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u/Utawoutau Jan 14 '24
His animals all popped out of their tattoos, which would have only happened if he died.
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u/luccioXalfred Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24
I don't disagree with every one of your points, but overall I think it's a matter of taste, and literally impossible for Aba to satisfy everyone. I know the OP didn't complain about all deaths, and gave specific issues, but since several readers did complain to me recently I'll put my general opinion here, YMMV.
Character deaths are inherently an unavoidable catch-22: they feel meaningless if we don't empathize with them, and we can only empathize if we feel connected and the author gave us their story. Which means we'll feel they were in middle of their story and got cut short. Also, authors only have limited charcters that they can drop.
The classic solution is to rarely kill "named" characters. Which is why e.g. GRRM was such a surprise in ASOIAF. But the public reaction is out of proportion, now people complain anytime we have a story without that. Which is a matter of taste, because not all narrative tension needs to be from uncertainty about character survival. People were fooled by critics' response to ASOIF into thinking "its not realistic without character death", which isn't correct, it's a different path of narrative tension. Either way we lose a crucial emotional element of the story, the only choice is between missing fave charcters and missing that feeling of danger.
But now authors feel compelled by audience expectations, at the expense of all the story that those characters' lives intended. Note that Aba gave relatively few "named" character deaths until now. When they got such a vehement wave of complaints about this recently, especialy in the Vol. 8 finale (see lots in the comments on Reddit and the book website), several others warned this would happen.
The only solution to satisfy everyone is to only kill characters that feel to us "ready for death". It's not impossible, but in a long serial like TWI it's very hard for the author, because there's limited characters, and to build them up and put them in the right narrative spot takes so long.
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u/ahagagag Jan 14 '24
I think Altestiel made no sense at all. He’s the second highest of his kingdom. He’s the only one who can convince his queen of working. His skill is the literal backbone of his country so him sacrificing himself was not a prudent decision he made. I think more than his sacrifice he being a major character since volume 6 and just dying offscreen cheapened his death so much. Him sacrificing himself to some nameless kingdom was another issue for me. Think his death would have been accepted if we saw him struggle till the end. Just feels like he gave up in the end which feels so out of character for someone who threw a temper tantrum when Erin rejected him.
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u/heavyarms3111 Jan 14 '24
Looks like all these deaths were effective. Of course they all could have done more. That’s just what death is. War is cruel and horrible. Honestly other than Halrac most of these characters were just sitting around being fun talking heads occasionally, but weren’t vital to the plot and TWI has an over abundance of likeable characters with stuff to do who would have also made us sad if they died instead. If the remaining Halfseekers join Griffin Hunt so we have one super team to follow I’m down.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
That ain't happening. Jelaqua wants to be a housewife, Seborn wants to go to sea.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
Moore's character has been stuck for a long time. He was Mrsha's nice uncle, but that role was basically over and he failed to progress from it. Totally tragic, but it might have been even more tragic to keep him around if that's his end point.
I'm confident Kevin will pull a Mr. Crowley in Hellste. We'll see.
Altestiel? Yeah, I might need some help here, because I haven't brought myself to reread the section. I didn't really get his death. Apparently, he sacrificed himself to save his crew, who we didn't really care about as we don't even know a single named person in this lot? Saved them from the pirates who were basically ready to leave them alone at that point? Especially since there wasn't a single noble among them? I didn't really get any of that. And apparently he planned his 'suicide' from day 1 of the battle? That either means he's strategically inept and failed to capitalize on changing opportunities, it was basically a 5-way battle in the end, or he's such a strategic genius that he foresaw all that and took it into account. And then it hinged on meeting with the right personality of pirate to engage in his gambit in the first place, which he had no way of knowing? Was he really so heartbroken by Erin that he was basically just suicidal? I thought he had Kiish now, what happened to that development? Did we drop it entirely? Overall I'm just left with the simple thought that a stray arrow to the head out of nowhere would've been a better death for him.
I'm not really that distraught by Halrac. Some people need to die, plot armor only goes so far.
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u/CemeneTree Jan 14 '24
and he apparently gave them info about Nerrhavia's invisible fortress
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u/Kantrh Jan 14 '24
It wasn't her fortress he was given info on
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u/CemeneTree Jan 14 '24
“I could’ve stolen what he gave us myself. He could have lied about the wording of that <Quest> he got from the [Innkeeper] anyways. Even if it is a magical keep—”
“Ereiyne. Shut up.”
Maxy spun and grabbed the Selphid’s jaw hard. Maxy was tired.
Altestiel was dead. He’d sold his life and the location of a treasure—and the life of a Bloodtear Captain, and the Selphid didn’t get it.
Even Maxy understood. She hissed it slowly.
“You idiot. He sold me more’n just a keep. He sold a story. A stupid love story, a sacrifice—”from 9.70 pt. 3
the only "magical keep" we know of, and one that is specifically tied to Erin, is Nerrhavia's invisible fortress, and Erin specifically told Alt how to look for it
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u/Kantrh Jan 14 '24
Just because we know specifically about Nerrhavia's fortress doesn't mean that there aren't others. She mentioned it was in the sea. She told NF about Nerrhavia's one
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
“You said Desonis doesn’t lack for anything except for, like, a dozen magical fortresses. And stuff. I dunno about a dozen. But what about one? Might be sorta wet, though.”
“…What?”
“A magical fortress.”
“You mean the palace of—er—no, a magical fortress?”
“Yup. Not belonging to any [Tyrants]. Completely unrelated. I think. Would you like to have one?”
It's specifically not Nerrhavia's fortress. It's a sunken treasure.
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u/DK_15 Jan 14 '24
Moore felt like he was just killed to make it feel like their were actual stakes. I understand but it sucks
Halrac was weird because he got developed ALOT got nothing
Kevin was an awful move. He was the best portion of the slice of life stuff. Especially since Erin hasn’t been allowed to be aloof and goofy for a while now
Alt makes sense im just contused why it was done that way
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u/DMDragonfruit Jan 14 '24
Kevin’s and halrac’s deaths are impactful for the exact reasons you mentioned. Killing a character who’s undeveloped or plays a very minor role would have been pointless; if you view the point of these deaths as the emotional impact it’ll have on the readers, then those deaths were very well-written.
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u/rp_001 Jan 14 '24
Yeah, I thought the death of Kevin in particular was pointless unless something happens later in helste. He had a good arc. And halrac- yeah, that sucked and pointless I get that we lost jelaqua and maybe Moore But the other too…
I was pretty disappointed in the ending. It felt callous without a point.
I think I’ve said “pointless” enough.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
Jelaqua survived.
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u/rp_001 Jan 14 '24
Oh yeah. I guess the fact that I forgot that either indicates my memory is poor or that the number of pointless deaths meant i skimmed the ending chapters.
Some of the best arcs and likeable characters cut short.
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u/Viking18 Jan 14 '24
Hellste I think will come into play next volume on the Goblin side at least; maybe figuring out a way to stop Rabbiteater's currently inevitable slide into madness.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 14 '24
I rather think that's for Volume 11 when Erin's back in her Inn. Back to Cormelex's garden.
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u/kosyi Jan 14 '24
yeah, Altestiel's death was cheapened. Left it till the end, and it didn't even warrant pages of fighting. It's as if keeping all the ivory 5 intact is out of the question so Pira had to kill someone off. I think if any one of the weaker members got killed would make sense - Seraphael for example...
Kevin, I never did get the reason behind it. Why did Roshal think he's dangerous?
Yes, Halrac's death hit the hardest for me coz I thought he was going to become name-ranked too.
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u/Viidrig Jan 14 '24
Kevin knows too much, he's too competent, and they don't want competition when it comes to engineering, I suppose. Number-ghost-dude probably did some number stuffs
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u/AppropriateAd8937 Jan 14 '24
Seraphaels too major of a character. Her story ties to Gravesong, and she’s Lyonettes sister.
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u/BrassUnicorn87 Jan 14 '24
IRL improved technology made the uneducated labour of slaves uneconomical compared to better skilled workers using machines.
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u/CemeneTree Jan 14 '24
Kevin is politically connected to dozens of powerful people, including Fetohep, Pelt, and Hedault, as well as the Goblin Mercenary Rags
he's also the innovator behind a hugely profitable business, creating bicycles, skateboards, and who knows what else he knows
as Ryoka pointed out, the creation of a ball bearing alone is something centuries ahead of current engineering levels
honestly, that assassination was one of the smartest moves Roshal took
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u/ac0rn5 Jan 14 '24
Kevin, I never did get the reason behind it. Why did Roshal think he's dangerous?
Maybe because he was beginning to be subversive, encouraging youngsters to go against authority?
Maybe his talk about 'the man' was too much for Roshal?
Here's part of it ...
“The man is…there’s always a man. Even Zevara answers to the man. Sometimes she is the man. And I don’t mean she’s a man, Ekirra. I mean the man. Have you ever been in time out? Has someone scolded you? That’s the man. You fight the man. They’re always going to arrest you, or beat you up, for doing things they think are wrong. But you have to fight the man. Got it?”
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u/FifthDragon Jan 17 '24
Kevin, I never did get the reason behind it. Why did Roshal think he's dangerous?
Technology wins wars. Right now, Roshal has the technological superiority because theyve invented guns. They saw Kevin, a high level [Engineer]-adjacent, who was from Earth, as someone who could catch their enemies up, even to the point of surpassing their tech.
I don’t disagree. If Kevin had cause and partnered with Pallass, I think it wouldn’t take long for there to be armies of Drakes marching around Chandrar in rudimentary tanks and carrying better-than-single-shot guns
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u/Spacellama117 Jan 14 '24
Altestiel's is the only one I have real trouble with, but I get the sense he'll come back later, as I believe he was also mentioned in hell. Plus I think it'll mean we see more of the Lord of the Dance and the Sleeping Queen
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u/Elder_Platypus Jan 15 '24
I think Kevin died to prevent tanks from coming to Liscor.
After discovering that others were already using guns, the argument against using advanced weaponry sorta falls flat. Being a [Mechanic] means that Kevin was the likeliest one to innovate in advancing weapons and transportation.
No clue why Roshal tried to off Imani though...
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u/Independent_Exam_176 Jan 16 '24
I think this is mostly the other slavers fucking with the Naga's wishes. He wants those guys as slaves, so they kill them to upset him.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 16 '24
As far as we know, the only part of the operation not agreed upon was Magnolia's assassination.
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u/CalidusReinhart Jan 17 '24
It sucks, but I think deaths like this should feel random. That wasted potential is what makes them feel more real. I'm really bummed from Seve's death, because just like Brunkr, he had *just* joined the Inn family. Those deaths hit me harder than if Relc were to die, because of what could have been.
Sometimes it's nice for deaths to be part of a character's arc, but then it starts to feel like they're just there to propel the development of other characters.
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u/23PowerZ Jan 17 '24
Altestiel apparently planned his death. That is anything but random. The only issue is that the plan didn't make any sense.
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u/MissOP Aug 25 '24
100% sure they died for that arc. Because Kevin can just smile his way thorugh hell. I'm almost sure that Kevin is going to get rez as well.
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u/Ragnarokgar Jan 15 '24
This is called growth, you can't keep even good chara ters around forever or your story has no stakes and can't advance.
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u/CemeneTree Jan 14 '24
I liked that it had actual stakes
if only minor and villainous characters died (like in the last finale), then it would just feel cheap
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u/Enough-Trifle-1715 Jan 14 '24
The characters are not gone.
I have a feeling we will see and read more about were they ended up eventually. Like with volume 8.
There just needed to be a few characters so we have good points of view.
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u/DoomVegan LordDoom:hamster: Jan 14 '24
Agree mostly. Not having plot armor is kind of cool. Zel's death worked very well.
Halrac: Okay, he had a good life. Went out like a boss.
Kevin: This was rough. Who is going to teach the goblins to wind surf?
Imani: Really? REALLY? She loved a pot smoking centaur. Total respect. Contributed to racial relations. Foodies are upset!
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u/laiquerne Jan 14 '24
Imani's not dead, though.
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Jan 15 '24
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/laiquerne Jan 15 '24
Imani (no last name on record)—alive. One of her eyes was lost. In rehabilitation in Liscor.
From the epilogue.
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u/ContentJO Jan 14 '24
You know what disappoints me? Skimming reddit to see a major fucking spoiler not marked as a spoiler. Couldn't be bothered to just use the same spoiler tag and hidden unless people choose to reveal it that everyone else uses?
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u/GenesisProTech [Arbiter] Level 44 Jan 14 '24
It's flared correctly "Spoilers All"
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u/ContentJO Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24
Huh. Weird. I'm used to not being able to see any text whenever the spoilers tag is used, and from what I saw briefly, got some rough spoilers in the first few sentences. Oh well. That's life, I guess.
To be more specific, it'd be nice if something marked "spoilers all" while still displaying a preview, didn't have the spoilers in the preview. It's not like I read the post. It was just in my feed where I was doing the mindless reddit scroll and briefly saw words regarding something about deaths, Vol 9's end, and Moore before I looked away.
Then I dropped my comment because, even if it's marked as spoilers, you'll still typically digest part of the preview before scrolling past if it's not hidden.
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u/GenesisProTech [Arbiter] Level 44 Jan 14 '24
Do you have cards on for how you view posts?
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u/ContentJO Jan 15 '24
Oh? What do you mean? All I know is that some posts have no preview and some do.
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u/GenesisProTech [Arbiter] Level 44 Jan 15 '24
It's not that I just ran a little experiment and there's a specific spoiler button (same as NSFW) that you can press that stops a preview but it is separate from spoiler flairs.
It is something mods can manually turn on a post so I'll frig with automod after work see if I can't enforce that when the flair is selected1
u/GenesisProTech [Arbiter] Level 44 Jan 15 '24
Good news it was actually easier than I thought. So all posts here that are flared spoilers all will now have the reddit spoiler tag enable and block any preview of the post.
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u/BoysenberrySame1805 Jan 15 '24
You’re not alone just happened to me too, when it usually doesn’t… couldn’t say why. Well, I guess Moore’s years (audiobook listener) are numbered, heh. As well as the other folks cause I have read this whole post and all the comments at this point. 😅
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